Luke 15 demonstrates that Jesus is a universalist

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Patrick1966

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We cannot know exactly who is or will be a member of His elect...
This seems pretty unambiguous to me my brother.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
 

Patrick1966

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...in addition to loving Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, we can love all people as ourselves, which is exactly what He commands us to do; as Jesus says in Matthew 22, on these two commandments hang the entire Law and Prophets (Scripture).

Grace and peace to all.

Amen my brother. We're supposed to love one another, not smash one another over the head with our Bible. :)
 

Patrick1966

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Only those loving Him will be with Him forever.
And everybody WILL love and be with him forever.

1 Corinthians 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
 

Patrick1966

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I know you don't have any Bible saying everyone ever born will go to heaven.
Again...

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
 

Patrick1966

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Do you have any Bible showing all dead infants going anywhere specific? All will join God in His kingdom who come to Him by faith. I know you don't have any Bible saying everyone ever born will go to heaven. The Bible contradicts that. Maybe they will all see heaven when raised to be judged and know what they will miss.

By the way, welcome to the community, my friend.
 

Olin

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And everybody WILL love and be with him forever.

1 Corinthians 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
This verse doesn't prove your theory. You need to show in the Bible where the subjects being spoken of are all men ever born. Unless you can do that, then you're only reading your own theory into the Bible.
 

rwb

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If it's true that Jesus tortures some adults FOREVER and that all people that die in infancy automatically go to Heaven then, yes, it's beautiful and merciful when infants die.

But, I don't subscribe to that belief.

Rather than let my imagination run wild, assuming all manner of things, I simply cling to what is written. Some, whose names are not found written in the book of life shall be cast into the lake of fire THAT IS THE SECOND DEATH. I will not argue for eternal torment, nor will I argue against it. Because found in the Word of God are verses that appear there will be unending torment, but also found in the Word of God are verses like those of Rev 20:14 that tells us to be cast into the lake of fire is the second death. Whether or not there is eternal torment and suffering associated with the second death is irrelevant, for it is enough to know with certainty that we do not want to go there, nor do we want others to go there. Therefore, we faithfully teach the Gospel of salvation that is found in Christ alone, and with comfort know that Christ will save His people and none of them shall be lost eternally. Who they are is not for me to know, but God knows, and that too is enough for me.
 

rwb

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I don't see anything in there that says that Jesus will destroy one's soul.

Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

Patrick1966

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Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Yes, Jesus has the ability to destroy souls, but it doesn't say that he actually destroys (eliminates) souls as in, they no longer exist.
 

rwb

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Yes, Jesus has the ability to destroy souls, but it doesn't say that he actually destroys (eliminates) souls as in, they no longer exist.

Scripture tells us that being cast into the lake of fire is the SECOND DEATH! All who are cast there, those who are not found written in the book of life will be destroyed body and soul, just as Christ tells us is the reason we should fear going there.
 

Jack

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Well, I guess that's the crux of the matter. Do you realize that you're not reading the ORIGINAL scriptures but translations? Which Bible translation do you use?
Yes, but I know our English translations are quite consistent. Don't you believe any of them?
I too "stick" with the Bible but there are clear and numerous examples of the King James and most other English TRANSLATIONS contradicting themselves because of, I believe, incorrect translations.
You believe? Why? Because they all say you're wrong?
In the end, my brother, it doesn't matter. As long as you and I believe in Jesus and try to do his will and love one another, we're saved. Our conjecturing with one another on everything beyond that is not important.
It does matter indeed.

Revelation 22
19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Which clearly proves you're wrong, again.

You didn't say how long God is gonna cook those who hate Him. Remember, you accused me of dodging questions.
 
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PinSeeker

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This seems pretty unambiguous to me my brother.
Only because you're not understanding what I'm telling you... or possibly that you just refuse to. Or possibly both. God's thoughts and ways are much higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8-9), and we, like David, cannot attain to it (Psalm 139:6), so in some sense it may seem ambiguous to us, but that doesn't make it so. :)


1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Well, and the "especially" can also be seen as "particularly." Yes, he's the Savior of all people, but many will never acknowledge that; they will never call upon the name of the Lord. Read Joel 2:32 and you will see the Old Testament passage that John and Paul refer to when they say, "All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." Here you go; the bolded part of the quote shows the limited nature of God's calling, that those who call upon the name of the Lord, will be not all, but only those whom He has called, a subset of the 'all'...

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls."

There is no ambiguity.

And everybody WILL love and be with him forever.

1 Corinthians 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
That all things will be put in subjection under God is a different thing than salvation, Patrick. Closely related, but different. In eternity, Patrick, there will be those in subjection to Him with Jesus in the new heavens and new earth (with eternal life), and there will be those in subjection to Him... elsewhere, under God's final judgment, in eternal punishment. Thus, yes, all will be in subjection to Him. It is at least a bit of a frightful thought, but as John says at the end of the fifth chapter of his gospel, "an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (vv.28-29). One way or the other, yes, all will be in subjection to Him.

Grace and peace to you.
 

PinSeeker

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Scripture tells us that being cast into the lake of fire is the SECOND DEATH! All who are cast there, those who are not found written in the book of life will be destroyed body and soul, just as Christ tells us is the reason we should fear going there.
Well, agreed, but this 'destroying' is not to be conflated with complete 'annihilation.' It is to be understood more along the lines of complete devastation and even ruination, with no hope of redemption. Perhaps you agree.

Grace and peace to you.
 
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Jack

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2 Thessalonians 1
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

"Everlasting destruction", a process that never ends. Kind of like the destruction of America, a process by Liberals.
 
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