Luke 16 the rich man in hell lift up his eyes in torment

[stunnedbygrace]

I see delusions arising as taking some things for granted that are in error...as in a foundation that you may think is secure but will shake apart when tested severely enough. Until then all seems well.

Yes, that's how I see it too. Swallowing leaven. You don't see it, but it's permeated the whole loaf.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sometimes people just don't have the concept or paradigm in their makeup to be able to apply correctly. But yes, for some it could be mental laziness...or spiritual lethargy. But delusion goes deeper than this I think.

Yes...I mean, it does go deeper sometimes than just a laziness. That's hard to see as well, but you can catch glimpses of it when you see someone being completely unreasonable on some very minor thing. You can't glean why its happening, but sometimes, if you talk with them for some length of time, you can uncover what it is they're trying to protect.

 

[Episkopos]

The truth is that some non-Christians are closer to the truth that they seem to disagree with (or disregard)....and some Christians are further from the truth they seem to agree with. Welcome to humanity!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Bizarre but true...

 

[Episkopos]

Yes...I mean, it does go deeper sometimes than just a laziness. That's hard to see as well, but you can catch glimpses of it when you see someone being completely unreasonable on some very minor thing. You can't glean why its happening, but sometimes, if you talk with them for some length of time, you can uncover what it is they're trying to protect.

Good point. The protection of something that the flesh is holding on to...masquerading as faith from the inner man. But it is the outer man wanting to be "saved".

Jesus said that we must give up our lives to find life in Him.

Paul said that he counts all things as dung that he might win Christ.

But some count their lives....the part we are to abhor...as precious in their own sight...and seek to make grace extend even to the flesh.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is it always that the flesh is holding onto something?

It reminds me of the story of the woman cutting off the tip of the roast and throwing it in the trash. Remember it? She was just...doing what she learned from her mother and accepting it as the right way to do a roast. But when it caused a conflict, because she couldn't explain to her mother in law WHY it was the correct way to do a roast, she began to question her mother as to why.

In that case, she was just doing what she learned out of habit but had never questioned.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In other words, she made an assumption that it was the correct way because its just what she always saw. She wasn't trying to protect anything, she just didn't question why.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess I'm just trying to get across that it isn't always some guile involved. An open and sincere man doesn't at first realize all of the assumptions he made that have gone into his conclusion. But if he's open and sincere, its possible to reason with him.

 

[Episkopos]

I guess I'm just trying to get across that it isn't always some guile involved. An open and sincere man doesn't at first realize all of the assumptions he made that have gone into his conclusion. But if he's open and sincere, its possible to reason with him.

There is yet hope for such a person...hence the effort to reason with and communicate with the deeper person of the heart.

 

[Nancy]

It's lonely in here...wake up farouk! Wakey, wakey!

Lol...dontcha hate when that happens? It DOES feel lonely on here in the wee hours if you cannot sleep, or you have a 3rd or 2nd shift...at least in USA time. I am surprised though, that since we have folks from different Countries that, the site is not more active at any given time...good time to get in some prayer!

 

[tzcho2]

This coming from a known cult follower of Ankerberg, Hunt and company.

You lash out ridiculously with the above slander & bearing false witness against good men. John Ankerberg and Dave Hunt are highly respected Bible teachers, theologians & apologists that are anchored in sound doctrine. The ones that hate them are false teachers or their followers.
Should we assume by your definitions then that you must call Apostle Paul a cult leader and Timothy was a cult follower? Your shameful accusation is reckless & not rooted in reality.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, its frustrating, because I used to have leisurely time to stroll around in here. Now, I either have to come very early or after 8 p.m. when people are not yet awake or are winding down for the day. But I'm hoping to take some time tomorrow.

 

[tzcho2]

What biblical Christians are you referring to, your cult leaders Ankerberg and Hunt?
Remember it was you who first suggested on this forum that if someone followed the specific teachings of any particular individual they were in a cult, so what's your excuse?

Seriously? How dare you recklessly call them cult leaders, try a DICTIONARY. Do you know what a cult actually is? Your false accusations fall flat.
Personally, I can name specific Christian theologians/ apologists and specific well-known Pastors who reveal through their expository teaching that they are God-fearing, bible believing Christians who I agree with, because they come to the same conclusions as I do, they express and understand the essential Christian doctrines as I do, we are assembled together in Christ's church, Jesus is our Lord & Savior. I do not follow these apologists or theologians, we share the same view of the Bible as inerrant and take a literal interpretation of scriptures.

 

[CoreIssue]

destroyed, annihilation, death are all the same thing. Only the blind would misinterpret this.
Foolishness tries to make out they are different. Trying to force God's word to say what it doesn't aligns itself with the enemy.

Speaking of Satan Ezekiel writes this.........so I made a fire come out from you and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more. Ezekiel 28:18-19

You believe death equals ceasing to exist.

 

[CoreIssue]

What biblical Christians are you referring to, your cult leaders Ankerberg and Hunt?

Remember it was you who first suggested on this forum that if someone followed the specific teachings of any particular individual they were in a cult, so what's your excuse?

Never said that.

Russell did not teach what the Bible says.

 

[Harvest 1874]

The problem with an "eternally burning hell of torment forever and ever" is found way back in Genesis. It's all due to a common misunderstanding by most of the "religious" denominations of Christianity.
1611 KJV- Gen. 2[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Now, if you focus on the word "soul", in the Hebrew, the word is "nephesh", which means "animal life".
.
Now, let's go to Gen. 6:17; 7:21-22.
"All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died" .
Question: since animals do not have an eternal soul, why do many think or want to believe that we humans do have an eternal soul??

Did Moses understand the "Periodic Table of the Elements", or of what an atom was?
No! He did not. Therefore, he could not understand what Oxygen was, and had no other option but to call Oxygen the "breath of life".
.
Man "became a living soul", he/she DIDN'T get one!!
Stay with the KJV or be messed up in everything that you believe.
.
In the KJV, compare again Gen. 2:7 with Gen. 6:17; 7:21-22, and figure it out, that no human being has ever been given an eternal soul!

What you speak here in regards to man being a soul rather than having a soul is true, however you need no special translation of the Bible, viz. the KJV to tell you this truth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You believe death equals ceasing to exist.

I think maybe he believes the 2nd death equals ceasing to exist.

 

[CoreIssue]

I think maybe he believes the 2nd death equals ceasing to exist.

He believes people are vaporized in the Lake.

Jehovah witness and by default Bible Students

 

[CoreIssue]

Jehovah witness and by default Bible Students

 

[Harvest 1874]

You lash out ridiculously with the above slander & bearing false witness against good men. John Ankerberg and Dave Hunt are highly respected Bible teachers, theologians & apologists that are anchored in sound doctrine. The ones that hate them are false teachers or their followers.
Should we assume by your definitions then that you must call Apostle Paul a cult leader and Timothy was a cult follower? Your shameful accusation is reckless & not rooted in reality.

You my friend obviously have not taken note of late of our friend CoreIssue's many post accusing other's on this forum of being involved in or in following so-called cult leaders. His view appears to be that if you don't agree with him and his particular beliefs you are most likely in a cult. Perhaps you would do well to do a little review of his many post confirming this fact.

My suggesting that Ankerberg and Hunt were cult leaders was along the lines similar to what he suggested that if one follows any specific teacher and his or her interpretation of the scriptures (especially if it contradicts his beliefs and that of the professing church) they are in a cult.

I was not implying that they were actual cult leaders, merely that by CoreIssue's definition of cults and their leaders they are cult leaders.