Made of Show of Them Openly

[CadyandZoe]

Colossians 2:14-15 KJV
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

@Behold ,

What does this part mean?

Thank you!

Much love!

I'm taking you up on your invitation to request a thread. If you prefer, start a new one, and post a link for me here. Thanks!

The principalities and powers were the chief priests and pharisees. Jesus spoke about them in the "Parable of the Landowner." Matthew 21:33-41. Apparently the Lord was meditating on Psalm 118:22 because he quotes it in Matthew 21:34. And the Chief priests and Pharisees confess themselves to be the subject of the parable. Matthew 21:45.

Just as the vine-growers killed the son of the Landowner, the chief priests and the Pharisees killed the son of God. They had the Romans put Jesus on a cross and in this way they killed the landowner's son and demonstrated "showed openly" the evil motives of the chief priests and pharisees.

Nonetheless, the Father raised his son Jesus from the dead, "showing openly" that Jesus is indeed the son of the landowner.

 

[Johann]

So you dont believe he was tempted? You dont believe he was capable of sin?
If this is true, you know what you are left with, dont you?

Externally, NOT INTERNALLY!-look up dokimazo and peirazo, as you are peiradzo-ing me here!
Mat_4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Jesus was NO ordinary Man!

1Th_3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
Question:

According to the Holy Bible Jesus manifested human traits not befitting God. For instance Jesus wept (cf. John 11:35), slept (cf. Mark 4:35), hungered and thirsted (cf. John 4:6-7). God doesn’t tire, doesn’t sleep, doesn’t thirst and doesn’t get hungry (cf. Psalm 50:7-13, 121:3-4; Isaiah 40:28). How then can Jesus be God?

Answer:

The above question and statements misunderstand or distort what the Holy Bible and historic Christianity teach about the Person of the Lord Jesus. According to the God-breathed Scriptures Jesus is the Son of God, the eternal Word who is God in nature. The Bible also teaches that the eternal Word became flesh and took on a real human nature (cf. John 1:1-3, 14; 1 John 1:1-3; Matthew 1:18-23).

What this basically means is that Christ is both God and man, having all the attributes belonging to both Deity and humanity at the very same time. Jesus is truly God in every way, and is also a real human being in every sense with the exception of sin. The things he experienced as man did not affect the integrity of his Deity, and yet at the same time his Divine abilities and qualities were not part of his human nature. He had (and continues to have) two distinct natures, two distinct sets of attributes simultaneously without either of them fusing in or mixing with the other.

Thus, since Jesus became a real human being he truly hungered and thirsted like all men. Yet since he is also truly God he is the Bread of Life and the Living Water:

"Jesus answered her, ‘If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, "Give me a drink," you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.’ … Jesus said to her, ‘Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks of the water that I WILL GIVE HIM will never be thirsty forever. The water that I WILL GIVE HIM will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.’" John 4:10, 13-14

"Jesus then said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God IS HE WHO COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN and gives life to the world.’ They said to him, ‘Sir, give us this bread always.’ Jesus said to them, ‘I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I HAVE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.’" John 6:35-38

"‘This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I WILL RAISE HIM UP on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, AND I IN HIM. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.’" John 6:50-58

"On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, ‘If anyone thirsts, let him come TO ME and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."’ Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." John 7:37-39

And being a real human Jesus got tired and slept. Yet since he is also truly God, he is the very Rest and Comfort of all those who are weary:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11:28-30

That is why the Holy Bible has no problem portraying the Lord Jesus as truly human and also as true Deity, as the very Sovereign Sustainer of all creation:

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and IN HIM all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him," Colossians 1:15-22

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," Colossians 2:9

"but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high," Hebrews 1:2-3

Jesus wept, slept, was hungry and thirsty, but God does not sleep, thirst or hunger.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Do you not believe in angels, and unclean spirits, and the like?

Much love!

I believe in angels and unclean spirits and the like. But "principalities and powers" doesn't refer to them. It refers to the Jewish leaders who ruled over Israel during the time of Jesus.

 

[Ritajanice]

Externally, NOT INTERNALLY!-

Absolutely!!..100%.....Amen!!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Marks, you missed the point.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus (how through?) the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

What was it that God condemned in his son if it wasn't the law of sin and death?

You and I both know Jesus is without question a sinless man; so the question is how was this law in him working and how was it condemned/removed?

You cant say it wasn't there! its as plain as day!

@marks, @face2face

What was the law powerless to do? The Pharisees, including Paul, were seeking to gain God's favor, i.e. justification, through obedience to the Law. But, as Paul argued, he found another "law" at work in his members, what he calls "the law of sin and death." Obedience to the Law proved not to be the means to attain justification; rather, it proved the existence of "the law of sin in my members. The Good that I wanted to do, I did not do. It was sin in me that killed me."

What did Jesus condemn? He removed "nature" as the excuse. When Paul discovered the "law of sin" in his members, he cried out for mercy, wanting to be freed of it. But other people might take another course, offering nature as an excuse for sin. How many times have we heard, "I am only human?" Through the cross, Jesus pronounced a "death sentence" against that excuse.

Paul doesn't mean to say that Jesus condemned sin "while in the flesh", he means to say, Jesus condemned the metaphysical reality of "sin in the flesh." In Jesus, sin was no longer "in the flesh." he was the first man who didn't have sin "In his members". Through his perfect obedience, he forever defeated the idea that sin was part of our human nature. It wasn't part of Jesus' human nature. And the Spirit of life promises to remove sin from our nature also. Because of what Jesus did for us on the cross, we are no longer condemned to the sentence of death due to our sin. We will be freed from our body of death.

 

[face2face]

Externally, NOT INTERNALLY!-look up dokimazo and peirazo, as you are peiradzo-ing me here!

You are showing as level of incompetence which will cause me to cease communicating very soon!

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in EVERY RESPECT has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4:15

You know what it is Johann - you cannot grasp the word "every" - do you need me to explain the word "every" to you in "every" post?

If Christ didnt inherit a condemned nature then your God had no Victory! Sins Power is still condemning people to a permanent death!

And, I am not going to deal with all your rot in your posts, if the very first line contains blatant error - why should I waste my time repeating over and over principles already well established.

Next you will be saying "F2F, Jesus was only tempted externally and Paul didn’t really mean every respect!

Dig a hole and bury all your books if this is how you read the inspired Word!

I know who my High Priest is, but yours, I dont know him!

F2F

 

[Johann]

Check out Luke 12:50 another insight into the agony he experienced daily till that final agony,

Brother-get your act together!
"how I wish it were already kindled" Some see this as

a SECOND CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE (cf. Bass-Debrunner-Funk, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, pp. 359-360)
a Semitic idiom (cf. Black, An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts, p. 123)
A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, vol. 2, p. 182, takes ti as "how" and ei as "that" (hoti), but also admits, "it is not clear what this passage meant"
George M. Lamsa's translation of the ancient Syriac (Aramaic) manuscripts is "and I wish to do it, if it has not already been kindled"
Jesus wants the Kingdom of God to be manifest on the earth (cf. Matt. 6:10), even though there will be a great cost to Himself and others (the loss of unbelievers eternally and the persecution of believers temporarily).

12:50 "I have a baptism to undergo" The Greek has "a baptism to be baptized with." From Mark 10:38 it is obvious that this does not refer to Jesus' water baptism, but to

the persecution and rejection of His preaching
His testing in Gethsemane
His crucifixion on Calvary
Jesus saw Himself as the fulfillment of Gen. 3:15 (the Promised Seed) and Isaiah 53 (Suffering Servant). He saw Psalm 22 as foreshadowing His own experience.



"how distressed" This term means a mental pressure (cf. Phil. 1:23). Jesus' struggle is so clearly seen in Gethsemane (cf. Mark 14:32-42; Matt. 26:36-46; and Luke 22:40-46).

Salvation may be free, but it was not cheap!

A good discussion of this verse is found in Hard Sayings of the Bible, pp. 472-475. This is a good resource book for difficult texts, both OT and NT. I commend it to you!

This baptism, spoken of here by our Saviour, is the same mentioned Mat_20:22,23, and can be understood of nothing but his passion, the accomplishment of which he hints us was to be before the fire (before mentioned) would blaze up on the earth. Concerning this he saith he was straitened till it was accomplished: not that he willed the influencing of the heart of Judas to betray him, the heart of Pilate to condemn him, or the hearts of the wicked Jews to accuse, condemn, and crucify him; but he willed these events, for the manifestation of the glory of his Father, in the redemption of the world by him. As the woman big with child heartily wishes that the hour of her travail were come and over, not for the pain’s sake, which she must endure, but for her own ease’ sake, and the joy she should have of a child born into the world.

 

[face2face]

@marks, @face2face

What was the law powerless to do? The Pharisees, including Paul, were seeking to gain God's favor, i.e. justification, through obedience to the Law. But, as Paul argued, he found another "law" at work in his members, what he calls "the law of sin and death."

Yes, this same Law existed in Christ, by necessity!

Obedience to the Law proved not to be the means to attain justification; rather, it proved the existence of "the law of sin in my members. The Good that I wanted to do, I did not do. It was sin in me that killed me."

Correct, while under the Law his problem with covertetouness condemn him!

What did Jesus condemn? He removed "nature" as the excuse. When Paul discovered the "law of sin" in his members, he cried out for mercy, wanting to be freed of it. But other people might take another course, offering nature as an excuse for sin. How many times have we heard, "I am only human?" Through the cross, Jesus pronounced a "death sentence" against that excuse.

Paul doesn't mean to say that Jesus condemned sin "while in the flesh", he means to say, Jesus condemned the metaphysical reality of "sin in the flesh." In Jesus, sin was no longer "in the flesh." he was the first man who didn't have sin "In his members".

Incorrect, Jesus had a nature which was condemned to die! He could be tempted to sin, though crucified its desires and lusts.

Through his perfect obedience, he forever defeated the idea that sin was part of our human nature. It wasn't part of Jesus' human nature. And the Spirit of life promises to remove sin from our nature also. Because of what Jesus did for us on the cross, we are no longer condemned to the sentence of death due to our sin. We will be freed from our body of death.

We are no longer condemned because God triumphed over sins flesh in the obedient life of His son - no other way!

 

[face2face]

Brother-get your act together!
"how I wish it were already kindled" Some see this as

a SECOND CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE (cf. Bass-Debrunner-Funk, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, pp. 359-360)
a Semitic idiom (cf. Black, An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts, p. 123)
A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, vol. 2, p. 182, takes ti as "how" and ei as "that" (hoti), but also admits, "it is not clear what this passage meant"
George M. Lamsa's translation of the ancient Syriac (Aramaic) manuscripts is "and I wish to do it, if it has not already been kindled"
Jesus wants the Kingdom of God to be manifest on the earth (cf. Matt. 6:10), even though there will be a great cost to Himself and others (the loss of unbelievers eternally and the persecution of believers temporarily).

12:50 "I have a baptism to undergo" The Greek has "a baptism to be baptized with." From Mark 10:38 it is obvious that this does not refer to Jesus' water baptism, but to

the persecution and rejection of His preaching
His testing in Gethsemane
His crucifixion on Calvary
Jesus saw Himself as the fulfillment of Gen. 3:15 (the Promised Seed) and Isaiah 53 (Suffering Servant). He saw Psalm 22 as foreshadowing His own experience.



"how distressed" This term means a mental pressure (cf. Phil. 1:23). Jesus' struggle is so clearly seen in Gethsemane (cf. Mark 14:32-42; Matt. 26:36-46; and Luke 22:40-46).

Salvation may be free, but it was not cheap!

A good discussion of this verse is found in Hard Sayings of the Bible, pp. 472-475. This is a good resource book for difficult texts, both OT and NT. I commend it to you!

This baptism, spoken of here by our Saviour, is the same mentioned Mat_20:22,23, and can be understood of nothing but his passion, the accomplishment of which he hints us was to be before the fire (before mentioned) would blaze up on the earth. Concerning this he saith he was straitened till it was accomplished: not that he willed the influencing of the heart of Judas to betray him, the heart of Pilate to condemn him, or the hearts of the wicked Jews to accuse, condemn, and crucify him; but he willed these events, for the manifestation of the glory of his Father, in the redemption of the world by him. As the woman big with child heartily wishes that the hour of her travail were come and over, not for the pain’s sake, which she must endure, but for her own ease’ sake, and the joy she should have of a child born into the world.

Why am I continually having to explain the verse to you?

"How I am in agony till it be accomplished"

What is the source of his agony?

My agony at the moment is having to deal with your lack of understanding of basic english.

F2F

 

[Johann]

If Christ didnt inherit a condemned nature then your God had no Victory! Sins Power is still condemning people to a permanent death!

Jesus inherit a condemned nature!?

I'll stay with the Scriptures-thank you very much-you are bordering on blasphemy-I now understand why @marks don't want to discuss doctrines with you man.

 

[face2face]

Jesus inherit a condemned nature!?

I'll stay with the Scriptures-thank you very much-you are bordering on blasphemy-I now understand why @marks don't want to discuss doctrines with you man.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

Why?

For the law of the Spirit of lifeihas set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, Romans 8:1-3

What did God condemn in His Son?
How did He condemn it?
When was it condemned?

Johann read it carefully....please!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Johann it sounds as though you dont understand what is meant by a condemned nature!

Hebrews 2:17 explains it very clearly

and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.

Fear of death - life long slavery to this nature which results everytime in death!

I cannot make it more clearer for you Johann!

Fear ---> Death = Lifelong Slavery

F2F

 

[face2face]

Jesus inherit a condemned nature!?

Correct!

There is no other way for God to make a show of sins flesh, than to crucify it for all to see its true worth!

The Son of Man must be lifted and you must follow in his example daily!

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5

F2F

 

[face2face]

I'll stay with the Scriptures-thank you very much-you are bordering on blasphemy-

Now you see what is meant by the truth being extremely uncomfortable and that it will lead you to places you might not want to arrive at!

You see what is happening is you are staring into this verse and its truth is confronting!

For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God. @ Corith 13:4

I've shown you what that weakness is and how it realtes to Christ and us but you resist - that's understandible if you havnt set your mind to finding truth at all cost!

Christians want to gravitate to the power of God and ignore the weakness God had his Victory in!

F2F

 

[Johann]

You are showing as level of incompetence which will cause me to cease communicating very soon!

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in EVERY RESPECT has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4:15

You know what it is Johann - you cannot grasp the word "every" - do you need me to explain the word "every" to you in "every" post?

If Christ didnt inherit a condemned nature then your God had no Victory! Sins Power is still condemning people to a permanent death!

And, I am not going to deal with all your rot in your posts, if the very first line contains blatant error - why should I waste my time repeating over and over principles already well established.

Next you will be saying "F2F, Jesus was only tempted externally and Paul didn’t really mean every respect!

Dig a hole and bury all your books if this is how you read the inspired Word!

I know who my High Priest is, but yours, I dont know him!

F2F

You are all over, hither and thither-what are you trying to prove?

sounds as though you dont understand what is meant by a condemned nature!

You are saying Jesus had a condemned NATURE!
How on earth do you read Scriptures!
From what you are saying is that Jesus Christ had to go to the Cross to atone for His own condemned nature!-BEFORE He could atone for our sins and nature!

Show me in Scriptures Jesus has "inherited a CONDEMNED NATURE!"

 

[face2face]

You are all over, hither and thither-what are you trying to prove?

You are saying Jesus had a condemned NATURE!
How on earth do you read Scriptures!
From what you are saying is that Jesus Christ had to go to the Cross to atone for His own condemned nature!-BEFORE He could atone for our sins and nature!

Show me in Scriptures Jesus has "inherited a CONDEMNED NATURE!"

I've shown you so many and yet you still can't see?

In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Hebrew 5:7-8

Does a man who is NOT condemned to die do this?

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Heb 2:15

Hmmm so he feared death praying with strong tears to Him who was able to save him
Hmmm God was able to also deliver those who likewise feared death though unlike Christ they were subject to slavery to its lusts and desires

So NOW there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1

Why Now and not before his death & ressurection? Ah that's right God condemn sin's power through the death of Christ nature and only NOW is there no condemnation in him.

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, (as it was in Christ!) so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Romans 6:6

Man, I could go on and on to show Jesus in every respect was like his brothers.

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

If he wasnt taken from among men he could not be a merciful and faithful high priest! Or could he make propitiation for the sins of his poeple, if he wasnt released from the condemnation which leads to death.

1 Peter 2:24: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own BODY on the tree"

How were your sins represented in Christ's body on the tree?

Leave it with you
F2F

 

[Johann]

I've shown you so many and yet you still can't see?

In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Hebrew 5:7-8

Does a man who is NOT condemned to die do this?

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Heb 2:15

Hmmm so he feared death praying with strong tears to Him who was able to save him
Hmmm God was able to also deliver those who likewise feared death though unlike Christ they were subject to slavery to its lusts and desires

So NOW there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1

Why Now and not before his death & ressurection? Ah that's right God condemn sin's power through the death of Christ nature and only NOW is there no condemnation in him.

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, (as it was in Christ!) so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Romans 6:6

Man, I could go on and on to show Jesus in every respect was like his brothers.

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

If he wasnt taken from among men he could not be a merciful and faithful high priest! Or could he make propitiation for the sins of his poeple, if he wasnt released from the condemnation which leads to death.

1 Peter 2:24: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own BODY on the tree"

How were your sins represented in Christ's body on the tree?

Leave it with you
F2F

4th time now, show me scriptures where Messiah "inherited a condemned nature"
WHEN-
Question
Why wasn't Mary's sin nature passed onto Jesus? Why didn't Jesus inherit our sin nature?

Answer
We should first acknowledge that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was indeed a sinner (cf. Rom. 3:23). Mary's own personal testimony was that she was a sinner, when she declared "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior" (Luke 1:46-47), calling Jesus "my Savior" was confessing her need of salvation from sin.

At the same time, Scripture clearly says Jesus was / is sinless (Isa. 53:9-11; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 7:26; 1 Pet. 2:22, 1 John 3:5). And if he had ever sinned, he would be disqualified from being the only redeemer of God's elect (WSC Q. 21). But the Bible tells us Jesus saved his people from their sin (Matt. 1:21; 1 Tim. 4:10; cf. Acts 4:12).

So then, how can a sinful woman give birth to a sinless son? The answer is in the virgin birth.

Christ, the Son of God, became man, by taking to himself a true body and a reasonable soul, being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the Virgin Mary, and born of her, yet without sin. (Q. 22)

Mary was a virgin (Luke 1:34; cf. Matt. 1:25). She was found to be with child, not from being with a man, but by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 1:18; cf. Luke 1:35): "for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20). Because Jesus' birth was brought about from above, Mary's sin was by-passed and there was given to the world the Christ, the sinless Son of the living God (Matt. 16:16; John 3:16). Jesus, the second and last man Adam (1 Cor. 15:45, 47), did not inherit a sin nature (cf. Rom. 5:12-21).
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (hoti en autōi katoikei pān to plērōma tēs theotētos sōmatikōs).

In this sentence, given as the reason (hoti, because) for the preceding claim for Christ as the measure of human knowledge Paul states the heart of his message about the Person of Christ. There dwells (at home) in Christ not one or more aspects of the Godhead (the very essence of God, from theos, deitas) and not to be confused with theiotes in Rom_1:20 (from theios, the quality of God, divinitas), here only in N.T.

as theiotēs only in Rom_1:20. The distinction is observed in Lucian and Plutarch. Theiotēs occurs in the papyri and inscriptions. Paul here asserts that “all the plērōma of the Godhead,” not just certain aspects, dwells in Christ and in bodily form (sōmatikōs, late and rare adverb, in Plutarch, inscription, here only in N.T.),

dwells now in Christ in his glorified humanity (Php_2:9-11), “the body of his glory” (tōi sōmati tēs doxēs). The fulness of the God-head was in Christ before the Incarnation (Joh_1:1, Joh_1:18; Php_2:6), during the Incarnation (Joh_1:14, Joh_1:18; 1Jn_1:1-3). It was the Son of God who came in the likeness of men (Php_2:7).

Paul here disposes of the Docetic theory that Jesus had no human body as well as the Cerinthian separation between the man Jesus and the aeon Christ. He asserts plainly the deity and the humanity of Jesus Christ in corporeal form.

Is there something you don't understand?

 

[face2face]

4th time now, show me scriptures where Messiah "inherited a condemned nature"
WHEN-
Question
Why wasn't Mary's sin nature passed onto Jesus? Why didn't Jesus inherit our sin nature?

The irony here is you would ask the questions, the answer of which, would provide you all the insight into why Jesus is called the Son of Man; born of a woman; born under the Law.

Just fathom those titles for a moment Johann

Son of Man - fully representing man in every respect - nature and all!
Born of a woman - inheriting a sin prone nature
Born under the Law - It cursed him! and all those who could not fulfill it!

Answer
We should first acknowledge that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was indeed a sinner (cf. Rom. 3:23).

Whew!

Mary's own personal testimony was that she was a sinner, when she declared "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior" (Luke 1:46-47), calling Jesus "my Savior" was confessing her need of salvation from sin.

Just as Jesus's prayed with strong crying and tears, likewise confessed his need for salvation from the condemnation of death, which was working in his body! God acted and saved him - do you want me to list all those verse in Acts that tell you God raised His Son?

Hebrews 5:7-10: In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence [or: godly fear].

You can run from this truth Johann but I'll make sure it catches you every time!

At the same time, Scripture clearly says Jesus was / is sinless (Isa. 53:9-11; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 7:26; 1 Pet. 2:22, 1 John 3:5). And if he had ever sinned, he would be disqualified from being the only redeemer of God's elect (WSC Q. 21)

True!

. But the Bible tells us Jesus saved his people from their sin (Matt. 1:21; 1 Tim. 4:10; cf. Acts 4:12).

Wrong - God saved people from their sins "through" the body and sacrifice of His Son.

Jesus was redeemed from the grave - the firstfruits from among the dead!

You dont believe that do you? That Jesus was the firstfruits from the dead!

One way or another you will!

So then, how can a sinful woman give birth to a sinless son? The answer is in the virgin birth.

Nowhere does the virgin birth speak to some other nature - actually you are yet to define the nature of Christ - that should be interesting!

You have no proof for this statement Johann

Up until now you were stumbling along as you do but from here on its get very messy!

Christ, the Son of God, became man, by taking to himself a true body and a reasonable soul, being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the Virgin Mary, and born of her, yet without sin. (Q. 22)

Nothing above speaks to his nature - how many verses have I shown you to prove Christ was made like his brethren in every respect - I would think you could do me the courtesy of providing verses to show Jesus had some other nature different to ours!

Mary was a virgin (Luke 1:34; cf. Matt. 1:25). She was found to be with child, not from being with a man, but by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 1:18; cf. Luke 1:35): "for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20). Because Jesus' birth was brought about from above, Mary's sin was by-passed and there was given to the world the Christ, the sinless Son of the living God (Matt. 16:16; John 3:16). Jesus, the second and last man Adam (1 Cor. 15:45, 47), did not inherit a sin nature (cf. Rom. 5:12-21).
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Post ressurection verses do not speak to his earthly condemned nature!

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (hoti en autōi katoikei pān to plērōma tēs theotētos sōmatikōs).

In this sentence, given as the reason (hoti, because) for the preceding claim for Christ as the measure of human knowledge Paul states the heart of his message about the Person of Christ. There dwells (at home) in Christ not one or more aspects of the Godhead (the very essence of God, from theos, deitas) and not to be confused with theiotes in Rom_1:20 (from theios, the quality of God, divinitas), here only in N.T.

as theiotēs only in Rom_1:20. The distinction is observed in Lucian and Plutarch. Theiotēs occurs in the papyri and inscriptions. Paul here asserts that “all the plērōma of the Godhead,” not just certain aspects, dwells in Christ and in bodily form (sōmatikōs, late and rare adverb, in Plutarch, inscription, here only in N.T.),

dwells now in Christ in his glorified humanity (Php_2:9-11), “the body of his glory” (tōi sōmati tēs doxēs). The fulness of the God-head was in Christ before the Incarnation (Joh_1:1, Joh_1:18; Php_2:6), during the Incarnation (Joh_1:14, Joh_1:18; 1Jn_1:1-3). It was the Son of God who came in the likeness of men (Php_2:7).

Paul here disposes of the Docetic theory that Jesus had no human body as well as the Cerinthian separation between the man Jesus and the aeon Christ. He asserts plainly the deity and the humanity of Jesus Christ in corporeal form.

Is there something you don't understand?

Nothing here to show Christs nature was not like yours in every respect.

Remember the reason why he was raised up our of Adam stock was to overcome its weaknesses!

Sooner you get Pauls teaching on this the better for both of us.

he ( Jesus) entered once for all into the holy place, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing eternal redemption. Heb 9:12

Did Jesus secure eternal redemption for himself or only for those he came to save?

Without the blood there could be no entrance - none whatsoever.

Hence why it is not said he is the firstfruit from the dead....because he tasted death, its sting for all he came to save.

F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, this same Law existed in Christ, by necessity!



Correct, while under the Law his problem with covertetouness condemn him!

Yes, it condemned him. But Paul's point is that he found sin in his members. He is implicating the inevitability of death. But, he says, those in Christ no longer stand condemned because they have been set free from "the law of sin and death."

Incorrect, Jesus had a nature which was condemned to die!

I disagree. The whole point of the gospel rests on the fact that Jesus is the beginning of the "new anthropos", a human being free of the "sin in my members". (Ephesians 2:15) Jesus is the first of those who no longer have sin in their members. He wasn't by nature condemned to die. He is the first of those who are not condemned to die by nature.

He could be tempted to sin, though crucified its desires and lusts.

Agreed and you make a good point here in my opinion.

We are no longer condemned because God triumphed over sins flesh in the obedient life of His son - no other way!

Agreed.

 

[marks]

I believe the things we are discussing are not easy to process, and as such hurt on some level. Truth isn't easy...its very confronting!

That's fine, we all have our opinions, but it's a mistake, I think - my opinion - to think that your opinion of your perception of someone is necessarily accurate, particularly when we are only online pen pals.

If you are a lover of truth, it's not a problem.

Much love!