made to believe and what to believe

[bbyrd009]

if they can believe what they believe now, then they can believe the true Living God through His Son the Lord Jesus Christ.

aren't these spiritual concepts, that might be realized in any mind, regardless of any religious upbringing, or the terms used to describe them?

 

[DPMartin]

GINOLJC, not saying that you're right or wrong. but consider this, if one believes in the Lord Jesus do not God requires them to be holy. be ye holy for I AM Holy. to me, if I'm wrong, I thought Christianity is a life style, (following Christ) and not a religion.

you may have to read this conversation from the beginning, its a question of belief not religion though some always try to bring region into it. if the resistant can categorize every one and everything then they can make judgments according to the life they seek to live. if Christianity is a religion then religion is a human activity and they can justify in their hearts their continued belief in their own judgement rather then a Creator's Judgements. but if its the Life the Creator would have for men, then that's a problem in the self justification category.

 

[bbyrd009]

you may have to read this conversation from the beginning, its a question of belief not religion though some always try to bring region into it. if the resistant can categorize every one and everything then they can make judgments according to the life they seek to live. if Christianity is a religion then religion is a human activity and they can justify in their hearts their continued belief in their own judgement rather then a Creator's Judgements. but if its the Life the Creator would have for men, then that's a problem in the self justification category.

imo the problem you are going to run into, though, is that "Christians" are currently perceived to be in control of the world, and you are essentially identifying with them, at least to most people. Not judging whether this is a "bad" thing or a "good" thing, understand, but where or how do you differ? Or are you comfortable not differing? ty

 

[Truth]

Yes and it doesn't address the question.

Are those who don't have a belief in Jesus condemned even though they've never heard of Him?



This question is open to everyone.

l

This is a question That Bernnie asked the Christian ? so what you are saying is if My wife and I do not except Jesus we will burn in Hell? What about our grandparents, and great grandparents, that never heard about this Jesus, are they also condemned? this is about a Christian trying to get salvation to a Jewish Couple, My answer would be< God will have mercy on whoever God wants, and God will have wrath on whoever God has wrath. those who have never heard will be at Gods Mercy! GOD HAS MERCY that's why we are still here !

 

[twinc]

This is a question That Bernnie asked the Christian ? so what you are saying is if My wife and I do not except Jesus we will burn in Hell? What about our grandparents, and great grandparents, that never heard about this Jesus, are they also condemned? this is about a Christian trying to get salvation to a Jewish Couple, My answer would be< God will have mercy on whoever God wants, and God will have wrath on whoever God has wrath. those who have never heard will be at Gods Mercy! GOD HAS MERCY that's why we are still here !

seems that you do not know that God is also just and must be so - so imho He arranged that everyone be born again as a Catholic at the end of the road - so only Catholics will be in heaven or hell - twinc

 

[DPMartin]

seems that you do not know that God is also just and must be so - so imho He arranged that everyone be born again as a Catholic at the end of the road - so only Catholics will be in heaven or hell - twinc

LOL

 

[twinc]

LOL

okay but let me have the last laugh - twinc

 

[Job]

This is a question That Bernnie asked the Christian ? so what you are saying is if My wife and I do not except Jesus we will burn in Hell? What about our grandparents, and great grandparents, that never heard about this Jesus, are they also condemned? this is about a Christian trying to get salvation to a Jewish Couple, My answer would be< God will have mercy on whoever God wants, and God will have wrath on whoever God has wrath. those who have never heard will be at Gods Mercy! GOD HAS MERCY that's why we are still here !

How on earth did you get that from this?

"Yes and it doesn't address the question.
Are those who don't have a belief in Jesus condemned even though they've never heard of Him?
This question is open to everyone."


No offense but you need to pay more attention to what you're reading.

o

 

[Truth]

seems that you do not know that God is also just and must be so - so imho He arranged that everyone be born again as a Catholic at the end of the road - so only Catholics will be in heaven or hell - twinc

If you read what was posted you would see that the Grandparents, & Great grand parents, that new not about Jesus would be at Gods Mercy! God will show Mercy, on whom He chooses. I don't know what Church they will belong too!!

 

[Truth]

There are those who don't believe in Jesus because they've never heard of Jesus. What happens to them?

Re-reply to last Reply, the Key was that My Grandparents, and Great grand Parents who did not know about this Jesus would be at the Mercy of God, God will have Mercy on whom he Choose's, Will Abraham, Issac, and Jacob be in Heaven, What about David? God can Forgive anyone He Wants!!

 

[Job]

Re-reply to last Reply, the Key was that My Grandparents, and Great grand Parents who did not know about this Jesus would be at the Mercy of God, God will have Mercy on whom he Choose's, Will Abraham, Issac, and Jacob be in Heaven, What about David? God can Forgive anyone He Wants!!

Here is the answer to your question.

Romans 9
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.


This is how the Lord will judge those who have never heard the Gospel.


Romans 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


Your Grandparents and Great Grandparents will be judged according to the contents of their heart.

Does this answer your questions?

o

 

[Truth]

Here is the answer to your question.

Romans 9
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.


This is how the Lord will judge those who have never heard the Gospel.


Romans 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


Your Grandparents and Great Grandparents will be judged according to the contents of their heart.

Does this answer your questions?

o

YES, It will always be Gods Will.

 

[DPMartin]

Here is the answer to your question.

Romans 9
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.


This is how the Lord will judge those who have never heard the Gospel.


Romans 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


Your Grandparents and Great Grandparents will be judged according to the contents of their heart.

Does this answer your questions?

o

so what does that mean in the context of:

(before the flood)

Gen_6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

(after the flood)

Gen_8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

just what is God's Mercy when He spoke to Moses? what's the point of:

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

if the same mercy can be received without acknowledging Jesus?

Guys like Abraham did acknowledged Jesus, they just didn't know His name yet, the coming of the Messiah was Abraham's hope, and Faith, heck even his son was offered to prophesy it. but again the was God's choice wasn't it? how would Abraham know of these things unless the Lord his God revealed it to him? hence the revelation of the Truth of God is by God's will to whom He pleases.

the idea is to meat your maker now, not later.


(if you feel like you're being unfairly tag teamed, good)

 

[bbyrd009]

one must believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the "First Son" as you put it

the First Son of the Vineyard Owner is what i meant. The one who "said" he would not go, but went anyway

 

[Job]

the idea is to meat your maker now, not later.

Yes, but it doesn't always work out that way.

(if you feel like you're being unfairly tag teamed, good)

The truth is the truth regardless of the numbers.

o

 

[DPMartin]

Yes, but it doesn't always work out that way.

o

so what you are saying is, that there are other ways to be saved other than through Jesus Christ, correct?

 

[bbyrd009]

aren't these spiritual concepts, that might be realized in any mind, regardless of any religious upbringing, or the terms used to describe them?

after all, the First Son of the Vineyard Owner specifically stated that he would not go (accept Christ, in your understanding iow), and the Good Samaritan would likely not even let (you) talk to him...

but this does not mean that they cannot manifest Christ as well as us circumcised types. In fact as a rule it appears that they might even do better

 

[Helen]

My peace is found in Psalm 103:10 "He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities."

Praise God for that!!! \0/ \0/ \0/

 

[Job]

so what you are saying is, that there are other ways to be saved other than through Jesus Christ, correct?

I'm not saying it, the bible is. And before you ask for proof, I already posted the passage.

o

 

[DPMartin]

I'm not saying it, the bible is. And before you ask for proof, I already posted the passage.

o

no Job you are saying it, and saying that the bible is saying it. all of creation and its creatures know it's creator through His Word there is no other way. that same Word in the beginning is the same as Jesus Christ. Abraham knew Jesus, but he didn't know His name. simple. the faith and the hope is the same. therefore those who didn't receive the revelation, like Abraham like all of Israel at MT Sinai, so on and so forth will not receive the blessing therein. Jesus says plainly:



Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

hence unacceptable to be in the Presence of God. also whatever Paul says doesn't supersede what the Lord says:


Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

also what is of heaven returns or is in heaven, that which is not of heaven does not go to heaven. what is of God returns to God what is of the earth (man dust to dust ashes to ashes) returns to the earth.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

and don't forget as Paul says, flesh cannot inherit heaven.

what you seem to be promoting here is the Catholicism feel theology that all men are God's children. that ain't so.



Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


and nothing in the Bible supersedes that statement, actually its about the fulfillment of that statement. so anything you might be thinking in scripture contrary to that, you are mistaken in its meaning.

Jesus is the contract, according to God, everything else is within the context of that contract.