Man Rules Over His Wife?

[CadyandZoe]

We are commanded to love one another. That is different than being someone's slave.

Of course. But what's your point though? What is marriage in your view?

 

[Bob Estey]

Of course. But what's your point though? What is marriage in your view?

I have never married but I'll take a shot at it:

What inspires people to get married I'm not sure of, but once they find themselves in that state of affairs, they should have equal respect for each other. No one orders the other around. If they have a difference of opinion, no one says, "I am the boss." They find another way.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Where does it say that in Genesis? Are your referring to the scripture I quoted in my original post? I don't think that is a command. I believe that is a prediction.

okay, that explains the difference in the way we're looking at it. I see the passage in Genesis as a command.

 

[Bob Estey]

okay, that explains the difference in the way we're looking at it. I see the passage in Genesis as a command.

Sin has consequences. I believe God was explaining to Eve that one of the consequences of her sin was that her husband would now rule over her.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have never married but I'll take a shot at it:

What inspires people to get married I'm not sure of, but once they find themselves in that state of affairs, they should have equal respect for each other. No one orders the other around. If they have a difference of opinion, no one says, "I am the boss." They find another way.

Regardless of any differences, shouldn't people have equal respect for each other? I believe so, and I'm sure you do too. However, a marriage covenant is a unique and special kind of human relationship distinct from any other social contract or interaction. According to the Bible, marriage is designed to be asymmetrical, meaning God holds the husband primarily responsible for the family's well-being. In addition, God intended the wife to fulfill the "ezer" role, which can be translated as a helper or companion. In Genesis, God spoke first to Adam when the couple hid themselves.

Responsibility is key in God's design for the family. A mother is responsible for the welfare of her children, but a father is responsible for the welfare of his wife and his children. This establishes an accountability hierarchy where the person with greater accountability is in the leadership position. It is important to note that although husbands and wives have equal rights and dignity under the law, God's design for men and women differs. Men are natural hunters, providers, and protectors who are always on the lookout for threats and the bigger picture. Women, on the other hand, are natural caregivers who are detail-oriented, sociable, empathetic, patient, and always striving to bring order to chaos. For a family to thrive, it needs both a mother and a father. But the onus always falls on the husband.

Marriage, as designed by God, is an asymmetrical relationship where the husband has a leadership role and the wife has a supportive role. However, while the wife's role is subordinate, her worth, significance, dignity, and honor are no less than that of her husband. The Bible instructs children to "honor your father and mother," acknowledging both parents' roles in the family. Similarly, both the husband and the wife are equally deserving of honor and respect in a marriage. Even so, the wife's role is subordinate to her husband's role and if this relationship is maintained, the family will thrive, flourish and find fulfillment.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I have never married but I'll take a shot at it:

What inspires people to get married I'm not sure of,

Wow. A 70 year old male who has never been married, nor has had a desire? I don't think I ever met anyone like that except a priest. There are a wide range of reasons this could happen and I wrote down a list but then erased them because they were all sad.
At this point in life, why would be concerned about how a healthy marriage works?

 

[Arthur81]

Jesus told us to love our neighbors as ourselves. That doesn't seem complicated to me.

The Bible command "love your neighbor as yourself" is not a static abstraction into which mortal man is permitted to insert his ideas of love and morality; it is a dynamic, a code of conduct that is given by God. It is the Almighty, NOT man who determines love and morality. It is a command that has context and definite meaning. That command is found six times in the NT, given by Jesus, Paul and James. The Apostle Paul gives clear context and meaning to "love your neighbor as yourself" -

"The commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not covet'; and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law." (Rom 13:9-10 NRSV) Therefore, loving our neighbor involves abiding by the Golden Rule -

“In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets." (Matt 7:12 NRSV)

It is a dangerous distortion of the Golden Rule to turn it on its head by the retort: "If one spouse submitting to the other, and being ruled is okay, do you want to be the one being ruled?" You have a mass murderer on Death Row, would you want to be the one on Death Row? That type argument is nonsense. Interestingly, the command "love your neighbor as yourself" is a command, an exact quote out of the OT law -

"You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD." (Lev 19:18 NRSV) That chapter begins "You must be holy, because I, the Lord your God, am holy." In vss9-10 the Hebrews were commanded to not reap 100% of their fields, but leave the edges and gleanings for the poor to reap for themselves. It does not read to reap all your fields and then GIVE to the poor, but let the poor work for his food by reaping the edges and corners.

This chapter also includes a discussion where a man has sexual intercourse with a slave-woman who is engaged to another. The verses do not give a hint that her being held a slave is sinful, it is a discussion of sexual conduct. In the OT law where we are told "You must be holy, because I, the Lord your God, am holy" we the following commandments regarding slaves -

"When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property." (Exod 21:20-21 NRSV)

"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone." (Exod 21:2-4 NRSV)

"What then should we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.' (Rom 7:7 NRSV)

The humanist thinks he is more righteous than God!

"Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?" (Job 35:2 KJV)

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Savior. Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands... In the same way, husbands should love their wives as they do their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself...Each of you, however, should love his wife as himself, and a wife should respect her husband. (Eph 5:22-24, 28,33 NRSV)

Do we follow God's law and morality, or do we allow ourselves to be deceived by the lie of humanism, man in opposition to God?

 

[Bob Estey]

Wow. A 70 year old male who has never been married, nor has had a desire? I don't think I ever met anyone like that except a priest. There are a wide range of reasons this could happen and I wrote down a list but then erased them because they were all sad.
At this point in life, why would be concerned about how a healthy marriage works?

I don't think I said "nor has had a desire."

 

[Naomanos]

In a marriage, the man makes the final decision, although I don't know a husband who makes decisions without consulting his wife.

Not in my future marriage. We both make the decision together or we don't move forward. There is no final decision maker.

We will at time make decisions with our the other, yes, but with minor things. She will make her own decisions and I will make my own. Major decisions are done together and neither has final say.

We will have an egalitarian marriage.

 

[Arthur81]

Regardless of any differences, shouldn't people have equal respect for each other? I believe so, and I'm sure you do too. However, a marriage covenant is a unique and special kind of human relationship distinct from any other social contract or interaction. According to the Bible, marriage is designed to be asymmetrical, meaning God holds the husband primarily responsible for the family's well-being. In addition, God intended the wife to fulfill the "ezer" role, which can be translated as a helper or companion. In Genesis, God spoke first to Adam when the couple hid themselves.

Responsibility is key in God's design for the family. A mother is responsible for the welfare of her children, but a father is responsible for the welfare of his wife and his children. This establishes an accountability hierarchy where the person with greater accountability is in the leadership position. It is important to note that although husbands and wives have equal rights and dignity under the law, God's design for men and women differs. Men are natural hunters, providers, and protectors who are always on the lookout for threats and the bigger picture. Women, on the other hand, are natural caregivers who are detail-oriented, sociable, empathetic, patient, and always striving to bring order to chaos. For a family to thrive, it needs both a mother and a father. But the onus always falls on the husband.

Marriage, as designed by God, is an asymmetrical relationship where the husband has a leadership role and the wife has a supportive role. However, while the wife's role is subordinate, her worth, significance, dignity, and honor are no less than that of her husband. The Bible instructs children to "honor your father and mother," acknowledging both parents' roles in the family. Similarly, both the husband and the wife are equally deserving of honor and respect in a marriage. Even so, the wife's role is subordinate to her husband's role and if this relationship is maintained, the family will thrive, flourish and find fulfillment.

The wife is to be subordinate, true, and the husband is to lead and rule with love; not as seen in Islam and in situations where a husband is a wife-beater. Violence, that to my mind cancels out and nullifies the marriage bond, and the wife has every write to divorce the devil! Also, from another perspective, a husband may not be the best at family financial planning, and the wife is better, he would be wise to let the wife handle the finances; also, sometimes, and too often in our day, the wife knows the word of God better than her husband and in agreement she may take the role of teacher within the home. Would this be agreed upon by those with a high view of Scripture? If not, how would the relationship be handled more biblically?

 

[CadyandZoe]

The wife is to be subordinate, true, and the husband is to lead and rule with love; not as seen in Islam and in situations where a husband is a wife-beater. Violence, that to my mind cancels out and nullifies the marriage bond, and the wife has every write to divorce the devil! Also, from another perspective, a husband may not be the best at family financial planning, and the wife is better, he would be wise to let the wife handle the finances; also, sometimes, and too often in our day, the wife knows the word of God better than her husband and in agreement she may take the role of teacher within the home. Would this be agreed upon by those with a high view of Scripture? If not, how would the relationship be handled more biblically?

Your perspective sounds correct.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I don't think I said "nor has had a desire."

True, you said "What inspires people to get married, I'm not sure of".
Inspiration is fueled by desire. Desire motivates a person to achieve or acquire something. Woman motivate men to move, achieve, be the best they can be. Like a dancing male bird tries to impress the female bird, man will move mountains and do some pretty amazing things to be a contender for a special gal. There are many qualities in a man on a woman's checklist and so we try to prepare ourselves to provide in those areas. Sometimes we just don't cut it.
We have to make a good impression somehow.

 

[Cassandra]

"Thy desire shall be to thy husband; thy desires shall be referred or submitted to thy husband’s will and pleasure to grant or deny them, as he sees fit. Which sense is confirmed from Gen 4:7, where the same phrase is used in the same sense. And this punishment was both very proper for her that committed so great an error, as the eating of the forbidden fruit was, in compliance with her own desire, without asking her husband’s advice or consent, as in all reason she should have done in so weighty and doubtful a matter; and very grievous to her, because women’s affections use to be vehement, and it is irksome to them to have them restrained or denied. Seeing, for want of thy husband’s rule and conduct, thou wast seduced by the serpent, and didst abuse that power I gave thee together with thy husband to draw him to sin, thou shalt now be brought down to a lower degree, for he shall rule thee; not with that sweet and gentle hand which he formerly used, as a guide and counsellor only, but by a higher and harder hand, as a lord and governor, to whom I have now given a greater power and authority over thee than he had before, (which through thy pride and corruption will be far more uneasy unto thee than his former empire was), and who will usurp a further power than I have given him, and will, by my permission, for thy punishment, rule thee many times with rigour, tyranny, and cruelty, which thou wilt groan under, but shalt not be able to deliver thyself from it. See 1Co 14:34; 1Ti 2:11-12; 1Pe 3:6." Matthew Poole (1624-1679)

Matthew Poole sounds like a creep.

 

[Arthur81]

Matthew Poole (1624-1679)
"Perhaps the only true rival to Matthew Henry! A standard for more than 400 years, Poole's insightful commentary continues to be a trusted resource for pastors and laypeople. Offering verse-by-verse exposition, he also includes summaries for each chapter and book, questions and answers, information on cultural context, historical impact, and cross-references. Practical, readable, and applicable."

 

[MatthewG]

God first.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not in my future marriage. We both make the decision together or we don't move forward. There is no final decision maker.

We will at time make decisions with our the other, yes, but with minor things. She will make her own decisions and I will make my own. Major decisions are done together and neither has final say.

We will have an egalitarian marriage.

Good luck with that. A noble goal, but somewhat idealistic. When you get to the crossroads you will know what I'm talking about. You will have to flip a coin, which is never a good way of deciding your future family's fate.

When I choose to let my lawyer decide the best course of action, we decide together. But I'm agreeing to let him or her decide the best course of action for me.

 

[Naomanos]

Good luck with that. A noble goal, but somewhat idealistic. When you get to the crossroads you will know what I'm talking about. You will have to flip a coin, which is never a good way of deciding your future family's fate.

When I choose to let my lawyer decide the best course of action, we decide together. But I'm agreeing to let him or her decide the best course of action for me.

It will indeed work.

The way we've decided to do it is if we can not agree, we will table it, come back to it another day, and if we still can not decide, it's not worth it to get or do. She just added more. She said if we get to a crossroads, whoever the decision will impact more gets to make the decision when it comes to major decisions.

I don't want to be a leader or the final decision maker. It's not who I am. I don't want that kind of power. Never needed it or aspired to have it.

Which is why we have decided on an egalitarian marriage. It suits who we are better as she doesn't want that power either.

 

[Pierac]

After Adam and Eve committed the first sin, God told Eve this:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you." Genesis 3:16 RSV

Was God, then, commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or was he pointing out that one consequence of Eve's sin was that Adam would wrongfully try to rule over her?

It does not Matter anymore?

Mat 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Mar 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Luk 20:34 Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

The resurrection is coming.... No Wife... No Husband...!

 

[Naomanos]

It does not Matter anymore?

Mat 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Mar 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Luk 20:34 Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

The resurrection is coming.... No Wife... No Husband...!

Probably not in my lifetime. I will be 50 next year. So, it would still matter to me.

 

[Pierac]

Probably not in my lifetime. I will be 50 next year. So, it would still matter to me.

Do you observe the Law? All the Hebrew Customs? Passover? Sabbath laws? Jesus did.... Yet do you....? No you don't ! But you still want your wife to submit to you.... Why do you think you get to pick and choose what Laws still apply to your wife but not to you??? LOL