Man Rules Over His Wife?

[Bob Estey]

After Adam and Eve committed the first sin, God told Eve this:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you." Genesis 3:16 RSV

Was God, then, commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or was he pointing out that one consequence of Eve's sin was that Adam would wrongfully try to rule over her?

 

[Randy Kluth]

After Adam and Eve committed the first sin, God told Eve this:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you." Genesis 3:16 RSV

Was God, then, commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or was he pointing out that one consequence of Eve's sin was that Adam would wrongfully try to rule over her?

The operating word here, in your misrepresentation of the passage, is "wrongfully" rule. In a marriage, the man makes the final decision, although I don't know a husband who makes decisions without consulting his wife. Everything he does is with her welfare in mind. The man is to lay down his life, if necessary, for his wife. That's true leadership.

But I think you have at least half of it right. Men never rule well. They are going to "rule" imperfectly, and somewhat abusively. In this sense it may be said that women will suffer "wrongful rule."

But this is true in all of life, both men and women. Nothing we do is perfect. Anything we do, including well-intentioned things, have flaws and some "abuse" in them.

Whenever somebody corrects us, when do we not feel that the accuser is being somewhat "hypocritical?" And we would be accurate in that assessment.

Nevertheless, we must have order in our society, and God does work through a hierarchy of "rulers." Our boss at work, government officials, elders, professionals, etc.

 

[Bob Estey]

The operating word here, in your misrepresentation of the passage, is "wrongfully" rule. In a marriage, the man makes the final decision, although I don't know a husband who makes decisions without consulting his wife. Everything he does is with here welfare in mind. The man is to lay down his life, if necessary, for his wife. That's true leadership.

But I think you have at least half of it right. Men never rule well. They are going to "rule" imperfectly, and somewhat abusively. In this sense it may be said that women will suffer "wrongful rule."

But this is true in all of life, both men and women. Nothing we do is perfect. Anything we do, including well-intentioned things, have flaws and some "abuse" in them.

Whenever somebody corrects us, when do we not feel that the accuser is being somewhat "hypocritical?" And we would be accurate in that assessment.

Nevertheless, we must have order in our society, and God does work through a hierarchy of "rulers." Our boss at work, government officials, elders, professionals, etc.

When did God or Jesus say a man should rule over a woman?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

After Adam and Eve committed the first sin, God told Eve this:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you." Genesis 3:16 RSV

Was God, then, commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or was he pointing out that one consequence of Eve's sin was that Adam would wrongfully try to rule over her?

Man is head over the woman as Christ is head over the church. That should leave no doubt as to the authority of the husband and Ephesians also gives the responsibilities that go with that authority.

 

[ScottA]

When did God or Jesus say a man should rule over a woman?

There are other passages, but here Paul states it as a fact:

1 Corinthians 11:3​

But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.​

​

PS, Having said that-- However, it is just a temporary role assignment, the end of which is both men and women equal as the Bride of Christ (as if all women).

 

[Lambano]

I'll have to ask my wife about that.

 

[TheHC]

I'll have to ask my wife about that.

That’s being a good husband!

 

[Randy Kluth]

When did God or Jesus say a man should rule over a woman?

Jesus supported the Scriptures.

 

[Aunty Jane]

When did God or Jesus say a man should rule over a woman?

There is a headship arrangement that is God ordained…..headship is not dictatorship….Jesus was the model of what it means to be a head…..it’s a position of responsibility, not power. Power corrupts as we all know. Just look at any human government or organization where men in power dictate to others, and have authority to punish opposers….to see how far that corruption goes.

 

[Arthur81]

After Adam and Eve committed the first sin, God told Eve this:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you." Genesis 3:16 RSV

Was God, then, commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or was he pointing out that one consequence of Eve's sin was that Adam would wrongfully try to rule over her?

From the most feminist friendly translation, the NRSV Updated Edition, the text reads:

"To the woman he said, 'I will make your pangs in childbirth exceedingly great; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.'” (Gn 3:16 NRSVeu)
view a verse in the next chapter with a parallel phrase
"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.” (Gn 4:7 NRSVue)

There is not a marginal note giving an alternate translation in either verse in the NRSVue.

"Thy desire shall be to thy husband; thy desires shall be referred or submitted to thy husband’s will and pleasure to grant or deny them, as he sees fit. Which sense is confirmed from Gen 4:7, where the same phrase is used in the same sense. And this punishment was both very proper for her that committed so great an error, as the eating of the forbidden fruit was, in compliance with her own desire, without asking her husband’s advice or consent, as in all reason she should have done in so weighty and doubtful a matter; and very grievous to her, because women’s affections use to be vehement, and it is irksome to them to have them restrained or denied. Seeing, for want of thy husband’s rule and conduct, thou wast seduced by the serpent, and didst abuse that power I gave thee together with thy husband to draw him to sin, thou shalt now be brought down to a lower degree, for he shall rule thee; not with that sweet and gentle hand which he formerly used, as a guide and counsellor only, but by a higher and harder hand, as a lord and governor, to whom I have now given a greater power and authority over thee than he had before, (which through thy pride and corruption will be far more uneasy unto thee than his former empire was), and who will usurp a further power than I have given him, and will, by my permission, for thy punishment, rule thee many times with rigour, tyranny, and cruelty, which thou wilt groan under, but shalt not be able to deliver thyself from it. See 1Co 14:34; 1Ti 2:11-12; 1Pe 3:6." Matthew Poole (1624-1679)

"Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says." (1 Cor. 14:34 NRSVue)

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I do not permit a woman[c] to teach or to have authority over a man;[d] she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Tim. 2:11-14 NRSVue)
b - or wife; d- or her husband

Man was created "good" or righteous, not merely innocent. Therefore his rule would have been good and righteous and not abusive as happens in the fallen state of man.

"Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. You have become her daughters as long as you do what is good and never let fears alarm you. Husbands, in the same way, show consideration for your wives in your life together, paying honor to the woman—though the weaker vessel,[a] they are joint heirs of the gracious gift of life—so that nothing may hinder your prayers." (1 Pet. 3:6-7 NRSVue)
a- or body

The scriptures, which are God's word (2 Pet. 1:20-21), are very clear on the question.

 

[quietthinker]

After Adam and Eve committed the first sin, God told Eve this:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you." Genesis 3:16 RSV

Was God, then, commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or was he pointing out that one consequence of Eve's sin was that Adam would wrongfully try to rule over her?

Perhaps these words are expressing consequences as opposed to making them happen?

I find it helpful to remember that the Hebrew writers attributed everything that went on to God, both good and evil. I have also learned they were in error with this understanding. I say this because Jesus corrected the view (Matthew 5:1-12) and John tells us what he learned from Jesus...

1 John 1:5
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

 

[Bob Estey]

Man is head over the woman as Christ is head over the church. That should leave no doubt as to the authority of the husband and Ephesians also gives the responsibilities that go with that authority.

I was asking whether this verse was commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or whether he was just predicting the consequence of her sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

There are other passages, but here Paul states it as a fact:

1 Corinthians 11:3​

But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.​

​

PS, Having said that-- However, it is just a temporary role assignment, the end of which is both men and women equal as the Bride of Christ (as if all women).

I was asking whether this verse was commanding Adam to rule over Eve, or whether he was just predicting the consequence of her sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

Jesus supported the Scriptures.

I don't remember Jesus or God ever commanding men to rule women.

 

[Bob Estey]

There is a headship arrangement that is God ordained…..headship is not dictatorship….Jesus was the model of what it means to be a head…..it’s a position of responsibility, not power. Power corrupts as we all know. Just look at any human government or organization where men in power dictate to others, and have authority to punish opposers….to see how far that corruption goes.

I don't remember Jesus or God stating men should rule over women.

 

[Bob Estey]

From the most feminist friendly translation, the NRSV Updated Edition, the text reads:

"To the woman he said, 'I will make your pangs in childbirth exceedingly great; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.'” (Gn 3:16 NRSVeu)
view a verse in the next chapter with a parallel phrase
"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.” (Gn 4:7 NRSVue)

There is not a marginal note giving an alternate translation in either verse in the NRSVue.

"Thy desire shall be to thy husband; thy desires shall be referred or submitted to thy husband’s will and pleasure to grant or deny them, as he sees fit. Which sense is confirmed from Gen 4:7, where the same phrase is used in the same sense. And this punishment was both very proper for her that committed so great an error, as the eating of the forbidden fruit was, in compliance with her own desire, without asking her husband’s advice or consent, as in all reason she should have done in so weighty and doubtful a matter; and very grievous to her, because women’s affections use to be vehement, and it is irksome to them to have them restrained or denied. Seeing, for want of thy husband’s rule and conduct, thou wast seduced by the serpent, and didst abuse that power I gave thee together with thy husband to draw him to sin, thou shalt now be brought down to a lower degree, for he shall rule thee; not with that sweet and gentle hand which he formerly used, as a guide and counsellor only, but by a higher and harder hand, as a lord and governor, to whom I have now given a greater power and authority over thee than he had before, (which through thy pride and corruption will be far more uneasy unto thee than his former empire was), and who will usurp a further power than I have given him, and will, by my permission, for thy punishment, rule thee many times with rigour, tyranny, and cruelty, which thou wilt groan under, but shalt not be able to deliver thyself from it. See 1Co 14:34; 1Ti 2:11-12; 1Pe 3:6." Matthew Poole (1624-1679)

"Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says." (1 Cor. 14:34 NRSVue)

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I do not permit a woman[c] to teach or to have authority over a man;[d] she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Tim. 2:11-14 NRSVue)
b - or wife; d- or her husband

Man was created "good" or righteous, not merely innocent. Therefore his rule would have been good and righteous and not abusive as happens in the fallen state of man.

"Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. You have become her daughters as long as you do what is good and never let fears alarm you. Husbands, in the same way, show consideration for your wives in your life together, paying honor to the woman—though the weaker vessel,[a] they are joint heirs of the gracious gift of life—so that nothing may hinder your prayers." (1 Pet. 3:6-7 NRSVue)
a- or body

The scriptures, which are God's word (2 Pet. 1:20-21), are very clear on the question.

I would contend that though some would take Genesis 3:16 to give men license to rule over women, God was instead predicting the consequences of Eve's sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

Perhaps these words are expressing consequences as opposed to making them happen?

I find it helpful to remember that the Hebrew writers attributed everything that went on to God, both good and evil. I have also learned they were in error with this understanding. I say this because Jesus corrected the view (Matthew 5:1-12) and John tells us what he learned from Jesus...

1 John 1:5
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

I think God was making a prediction: One consequence of the sin Eve committed was that her husband would attempt to rule over her. It's what men try to do today, is it not?

 

[quietthinker]

I think God was making a prediction: One consequence of the sin Eve committed was that her husband would attempt to rule over her. It's what men try to do today, is it not?

Patriarchy definitely wont lie down without a fight. Consider the Moslem culture today which has nurtured and maintained itself with alarming force.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't remember Jesus or God ever commanding men to rule women.

I don't either. What I do know is Jesus supported the Scriptures which say that in Genesis.

 

[TheHC]

It is interesting that in the Hebrew Scriptures (the OT), the Hebrew word used for husband can mean owner.

Keep in mind that for baptized Christians, Jesus is our owner. Do
we balk at that? No.

It’s a loving headship.

It should be the same within the family arrangement. Being loving is selfless; the husband should put the interests of his wife ahead of his own. - Ephesians 5:23-25,28,29,33.

All we can do, is try our best.