MARK 1:4 JOHN'S BAPTISM

[farouk]

I don't think He was literally saying that His soul was dying--more that His soul was greatly saddened by what lay ahead. He said that we should fear the one [God] who could destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. Perhaps He was anticipating the spiritual agony of seeing the suffering and hopeless souls in the place of punishment (hades--likely a different place from the Lake of Fire--Gehenna)? (see 1Peter 3:18-20) The account of "the other Lazarus" in Luke 16, rings true to me--almost as if Jesus had been there to see the "rich man" suffering in the flames.



I think He was chiding His disciples (and friends), Peter, John and James, for sleeping while He was going through such agony of soul and spirit--He had asked them to stay awake with Him. To "watch" meant to stay awake. What kind of friends were they? And in your reference to "Nehushtan", are you calling me an idolator then, bbyrd?

The agony in the Garden of Gethsemane must have been similar, as the Lord Jesus contemplated the immense suffering to come.

 

[Nancy]

bbyrd reminds me of a few atheists I have known who think that they will be able to analyze the brains of believers. I suspect that when bbyrd mocks the faith of believers by calling it "death more abundantly" that is his way of insulting them without them catching on. It apparently reinforces his notion of being superior. He is undoubtedly lost (by his own admission) and will likely stay that way unless he somehow gets a dose of humility. Interestingly, he often obliquely accuses most others of being arrogant.

I can barely put together some of his posts and that is okay. I like Mark and I would love to know where he actually stands on the Christianity spectrum. He communicates differently than most and I am not free to divulge why that is. I'm not so certain he means to be insulting with the "death more abundantly" thing...I'm still trying to figure it out...I am thinking he means to die to self perhaps? I honestly cannot say at all, for certain.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I can barely put together some of his posts and that is okay. I like Mark and I would love to know where he actually stands on the Christianity spectrum. He communicates differently than most and I am not free to divulge why that is. I'm not so certain he means to be insulting with the "death more abundantly" thing...I'm still trying to figure it out...I am thinking he means to die to self perhaps? I honestly cannot say at all, for certain.

He claims that he is not saved, because I saw that he said just the other day, "If I ever get saved..." or something similar. One thing I know is that he is not a prophet. Revelation 19:10--->"For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus."

 

[farouk]

He claims that he is not saved, because I saw that he said just the other day, "If I ever get saved..." or something similar. One thing I know is that he is not a prophet. Revelation 19:10--->"For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus."

We can pray for him, right?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

We can pray for him, right?

Of course.

 

[farouk]

Of course.

1 Thess. 5.25...

 

[Nancy]

He claims that he is not saved, because I saw that he said just the other day, "If I ever get saved..." or something similar. One thing I know is that he is not a prophet. Revelation 19:10--->"For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus."

I believe in his opinion we are "being" saved? Tough to figure him out...What say you @bbyrd009 I do not recall him claiming to be a prophet. He relates different than most.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think He was literally saying that His soul was dying--more that His soul was greatly saddened by what lay ahead. He said that we should fear the one [God] who could destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. Perhaps He was anticipating the spiritual agony of seeing the suffering and hopeless souls in the place of punishment (hades--likely a different place from the Lake of Fire--Gehenna)? (see 1Peter 3:18-20) The account of "the other Lazarus" in Luke 16, rings true to me--almost as if Jesus had been there to see the "rich man" suffering in the flames.



I think He was chiding His disciples (and friends), Peter, John and James, for sleeping while He was going through such agony of soul and spirit--He had asked them to stay awake with Him. To "watch" meant to stay awake. What kind of friends were they? And in your reference to "Nehushtan", are you calling me an idolator then, bbyrd?

all we did is just make another lap then, I guess?

 

[bbyrd009]

I think @bbyrd009 is speaking of his "death more abundantly" thing, which I still do not quite grasp, lol.

Google can help there, if the ref is not apparent :)

and as far as I can tell this is not salvational, at least per se, Roman Centurion's (mithraists iow) daughters can still be raised, so really we are prolly mostly discussing at cross-purposes here I guess.

But another approach to understanding here might be to go and find where the terms "messiah" and "savior" came from, bc they were appropriated for a reason, for a pointer, a big, flashing neon sign, really. That is now hard to find bc the trees get in the way of the forest now I guess, bc we learn those terms by a diff route, that now becomes "the truth," and Octavian becomes the one who "appropriated" the terms if anything, see.

But obviously in order for some to go up to heaven after they have died (death, more abundantly), some others must go to "hell," (the pit dug for others) right? Which is why Christians prefer "hell" instead of Gehenna in Scripture, which is an actual place here on earth.

So if you believe God needed a Sacrifice to make you acceptable to Him, so that you might go up to heaven and become an immortal after you literally die, via saying the correct words and professing to believe them, then you are going to read the Bible with those preconceptions in mind, and life, more abundantly is going to fall by the wayside imo

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd reminds me of a few atheists I have known who think that they will be able to analyze the brains of believers. I suspect that when bbyrd mocks the faith of believers by calling it "death more abundantly" that is his way of insulting them without them catching on. It apparently reinforces his notion of being superior. He is undoubtedly lost (by his own admission) and will likely stay that way unless he somehow gets a dose of humility. Interestingly, he often obliquely accuses most others of being arrogant.

Well, so then calling the desire for immortality what it really is, "Death, More Abundantly," becomes an insult rather than an accurate descriptive, and as human nature will inform us there will be no "acceptable" way to even refer to the belief; they will all be deemed insults. And so any avenue for debate on the matter that believers consider settled science will not even be entertained, and any Scripture brought to bear will be ignored, I can Quote no one has ever gone up to heaven and there is only One Immortal until I die too, and no one will even acknowledge them, see, let alone attempt to treat them.

So, if I am being arrogant here, wouldn't the best way to shut me down be to address the Scriptures? If I have 100 exchanges of believers doing anything, everything but that, does that make me arrogant somehow? Maybe, I dunno. Pride is something I still struggle with, yes

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Well, so then calling the desire for immortality what it really is, "Death, More Abundantly," becomes an insult rather than an accurate descriptive, and as human nature will inform us there will be no "acceptable" way to even refer to the belief; they will all be deemed insults.

It is the Lord Jesus you are insulting. He said that He had come to bring life to His sheep and to bring it more abundantly.

And so any avenue for debate on the matter that believers consider settled science will not even be entertained, and any Scripture brought to bear will be ignored, I can Quote no one has ever gone up to heaven and there is only One Immortal until I die too, and no one will even acknowledge them, see, let alone attempt to treat them.

I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about. You make the truth of Scripture into a lie and then expect believers to somehow respect what you do?

So, if I am being arrogant here, wouldn't the best way to shut me down be to address the Scriptures?

Quote the Book, chapter and verse and clearly state what you think it means (instead of some vague mutterings) and believers will attempt to counter your arguments. As it is, most here don't even know what you are arguing.

If I have 100 exchanges of believers doing anything, everything but that, does that make me arrogant somehow? Maybe, I dunno. Pride is something I still struggle with, yes

Did it ever occur to you that the problem communications are your fault? Please refrain from using pidgin English, if you expect to be taken seriously. You sound like a teenager obsessively texting his friends. Writing standard English might get you more of what you may or may not be seeking. The word is "probably" not "prolly" as the words "don't know" are not "dunno" etc.

Considering God's great creative power and great love for His children is an antidote to pride. Reading the Book of Job is a good place to start. Job was much too earthly-minded. God taught Job to be heavenly-minded and only then did He restore Job's earthly existence. We don't get to tell God what to do--He tells us. He is the potter and we are the clay. It is a fatal flaw that un-redeemed humans always want to be their own god.

 

[Nancy]

Google can help there, if the ref is not apparent :)

and as far as I can tell this is not salvational, at least per se, Roman Centurion's (mithraists iow) daughters can still be raised, so really we are prolly mostly discussing at cross-purposes here I guess.

But another approach to understanding here might be to go and find where the terms "messiah" and "savior" came from, bc they were appropriated for a reason, for a pointer, a big, flashing neon sign, really. That is now hard to find bc the trees get in the way of the forest now I guess, bc we learn those terms by a diff route, that now becomes "the truth," and Octavian becomes the one who "appropriated" the terms if anything, see.

But obviously in order for some to go up to heaven after they have died (death, more abundantly), some others must go to "hell," (the pit dug for others) right? Which is why Christians prefer "hell" instead of Gehenna in Scripture, which is an actual place here on earth.

So if you believe God needed a Sacrifice to make you acceptable to Him, so that you might go up to heaven and become an immortal after you literally die, via saying the correct words and professing to believe them, then you are going to read the Bible with those preconceptions in mind, and life, more abundantly is going to fall by the wayside imo

You are so deeeeeep Mark ♥

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

all we did is just make another lap then, I guess?

I have no idea what you think this means.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Google can help there, if the ref is not apparent :)

and as far as I can tell this is not salvational, at least per se, Roman Centurion's (mithraists iow) daughters can still be raised, so really we are prolly mostly discussing at cross-purposes here I guess.

But another approach to understanding here might be to go and find where the terms "messiah" and "savior" came from, bc they were appropriated for a reason, for a pointer, a big, flashing neon sign, really. That is now hard to find bc the trees get in the way of the forest now I guess, bc we learn those terms by a diff route, that now becomes "the truth," and Octavian becomes the one who "appropriated" the terms if anything, see.

But obviously in order for some to go up to heaven after they have died (death, more abundantly), some others must go to "hell," (the pit dug for others) right? Which is why Christians prefer "hell" instead of Gehenna in Scripture, which is an actual place here on earth.

So if you believe God needed a Sacrifice to make you acceptable to Him, so that you might go up to heaven and become an immortal after you literally die, via saying the correct words and professing to believe them, then you are going to read the Bible with those preconceptions in mind, and life, more abundantly is going to fall by the wayside imo

I wish there was a "do not like" button on this website.

 

[bbyrd009]

Quote the Book, chapter and verse and clearly state what you think it means

why don't we just talk about something else instead ok, I've made the vv quite plain and wadr what you are asking me to do is kind of like rub your nose in them or something, from my perspective. I understand if you don't want to acknowledge there is only one immortal, no one has ever gone up to heaven, no Son of Man may die for another's sins here to me in this forum, so maybe discuss them with your pastor, or keep ignoring them even, ok by me ok, there is no judgement for beliefs, and I am not judging you either. The priest must break up Nehushtan, and i am not your priest right, I am just a priest, like you.

 

[bbyrd009]

You are so deeeeeep Mark ♥

Man, not trying to be. I am open to discussing the vv in the post above however you guys are ok, however we can possibly get to a discussion of those Scriptures works fine for me

 

[bbyrd009]

I have no idea what you think this means.

doesnt matter really ok, but see we are still not talking about the Scriptures that you are now demanding I Quote chapter and verse, like they are hard to find or something?

 

[bbyrd009]

I wish there was a "do not like" button on this website.

I'm thinking that is still preferable to ending up in the pit dug for others, ok, bc wadr our opinions here are not even relevant imo. Scripture is.

So I mean no offense ok, but I Quote Scripture and you want to tell me what you don't like?

 

[bbyrd009]

The agony in the Garden of Gethsemane must have been similar, as the Lord Jesus contemplated the immense suffering to come.

See but in a diff thread you will argue quite vociferously that Jesus was God, right, and so now you have God "agonizing" over what He already knows the end of, and other illogical concepts that Scripture even refutes, only we can't discuss the Scriptures I guess. Ok. But they aren't going away, ok, no Son of Man may die for another's sins might get scribed out in English, almost gone now, but Lex is not going anywhere I guess. They will still be there waiting when you are ready, and I do not judge you nor feel superior to you over this difference in our beliefs about what might happen after baptism or literal death, whichever comes first

 

[bbyrd009]

I wish there was a "do not like" button on this website.

Wadr imo what you really wish is that those vv were not in your Bible lol