Mark of the Beast - the Chip

[CoreIssue]

Now that is an excellent question, and up to now, you were going well. But why tear the prophecy in half, taking the shredded portion to the future? Finish reading the prophecy itself, continue comparing it with established history, and everything falls into place. What grew out of that fourth Roman beast???? What do those horns represent? Did the nature of the Roman beast cease to exist, or was it just the empire it ruled? Did not the character of the empire continue in the inherited nature of the horns which grew from its head? What happened to those kingdoms and where are they today? Particularly that little horn which uprooted 3 of the other 10, who fulfilled the criteria of that prophecy????
Answer the above questions accurately and watch futurism collapse into a pool of murk and confusion.

Wrong fell apart into the 10 nations of shown in the map. No mystery there.

The 10 have come together to form the EU. No mystery there.

What we do not know cannot now yet is who the AC is. He will not be revealed until the restrainer is removed. Nor we know what the Confederation forming the Empire under the AC will be called.

Remember, Greece under Alexander was a Confederation of city states.

Futurism is alive and well because trying to assign names to what the Bible says you cannot.

 

[brakelite]

Wrong fell apart into the 10 nations of shown in the map. No mystery there.

The 10 have come together to form the EU. No mystery there.

What we do not know cannot now yet is who the AC is. He will not be revealed until the restrainer is removed. Nor we know what the Confederation forming the Empire under the AC will be called.

Remember, Greece under Alexander was a Confederation of city states.

Futurism is alive and well because trying to assign names to what the Bible says you cannot.

When Christ comes and smashes the toes of the statue, the entire statue disintegrates. Those ten toes cannot be the same kingdoms as the ten horns on the 4th Roman beast. Only 7 of the horns survived (see previous post of mine). The ten toes must also be much larger than localised European kingdoms, because when Christ comes, the entire planet is affected...Jesus isn't coming just to deal to Europe. The following may be tweaked a little, but the intentions of the coming NWO is clear....for example, a proposed union between Canada the US and Mexico as one region and Europe as another, along with NZ, Australia, and South Africa as another is already being hotly debated is it not?

 

[CoreIssue]

The ten kings who vied for power as the Roman Empire disintegrated before them and from which 7 nations of modern Europe can trace their descent are known by most historians as being the Anglo-Saxons (Britain), the Allamanni (Germany), the Franks (France), the Lombards (first around the Danube then Italy), Visigoths (Spain), Burgundians (Burgundy/Switzerland)) and the Suevi (Portugal).

These seven of the ten Barbarian kingdoms were converted to Christianity and submitted to the authority of the Bishop of Rome. However, three of the kingdoms converted to Christianity but embraced the heretical teachings of Arius. Arius (who was presbyter in Alexandria around the year 320 A. D.) taught that ‘Christ was created out of nothing as the first and greatest of all creatures’, very similar to Jehovah Witness teachings of today. The teachings of Arius were condemned in two great church councils, Nicea (325 A. D.) and Constantinople (381 A. D.). These three Arian kingdoms were a threat to the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome [later called the Pope]. To make a long story short, these three kingdoms eventually were uprooted by the imperial power acting under the influence of the Bishop of Rome. The Ostrogoths (originally from Yugoslavia), by order of the emperor, dealt the heretical Heruli a devastating defeat in 493 A. D.

When Christ comes and smashes the toes of the statue,

the entire statue disintegrates. Those ten toes cannot be the same kingdoms as the ten horns on the 4th Roman beast. Only 7 of the horns survived (see previous post of mine). The ten toes must also be much larger than localised European kingdoms, because when Christ comes, the entire planet is affected...Jesus isn't coming just to deal to Europe. The following may be tweaked a little, but the intentions of the coming NWO is clear....for example, a proposed union between Canada the US and Mexico as one region and Europe as another, along with NZ, Australia, and South Africa as another is already being hotly debated is it not?View attachment 5232

It happened like this: The Pope requested the emperor to do something about the unorthodox Heruli. In response, the emperor sent Theodoric, king of the Ostrogoths to do battle with Odoacer, king of the Heruli. Odoacer was slain by Theodoric and the Heruli disappeared from history.
Then the Vandals were crushed (in 534 A. D.) by Belisarius, general of emperor Justinian’s armies. But there was one remaining horn which needed to be uprooted, and it was the most formidable of all: the Ostrogoths. After the Ostrogoths conquered the Heruli, they became extremely powerful. They were also Arians, so the Bishop of Rome [the Pope] implored Justinian to uproot the Ostrogoths. There were several battles between Belisarius and the Ostrogoths. The decisive battle, however, was in February of the year 538. The armies of Justinian, as well as the ravages of disease, decimated the armies of the Ostrogoths, they were expelled from Rome and in short order, disappeared from the historical scene in Europe.

So @CoreIssue what was restraining the Papacy from its rise to fame and glory? The Roman Empire. The fourth beast from which the little horn grew. Here's a quote from one of the most prominent of Reformation era scholars, Sir Isaac Newton, who while better known as a scientist of no mean fame, wrote far more in relation to prophecy...which belies the common belief that the reformers weren't "into" prophecy.

“Antichrist, then (as the Fathers delight to call him), or the little horn, is to be sought among the ten kingdoms of the western Roman Empire. I say of the western Roman Empire, because that was properly the body of the fourth beast; Greece, and the countries which lay eastward of Italy belonged to the third beast; for the former beasts were still subsisting, though their dominion was taken away. ‘As concerning the rest of the beasts,’ saith Daniel, ‘they had their dominion taken away; yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.’ Daniel 7:12. ‘And therefore,’ as Sir Isaac Newton rightly infers, ‘all four beasts are still alive, though the dominion of the three first be taken away. The nations of Chaldea and Assyria are still the first beast. Those of Media and Persia are still the second beast. Those of Macedon, Greece and Thrace, Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt, are still the third. And those of Europe, on this side of Greece, are still the fourth. Seeing therefore the body of the third beast is confined to the nations on this side the river Euphrates, and the body of the fourth beast is confined to the nations on this side of Greece; we are to look for all the four heads of the third beast among the nations on this side the river Euphrates; and for all the eleven horns of the fourth beast, among the nations on this side of Greece.”

When Christ comes and smashes the toes of the statue, the entire statue disintegrates. Those ten toes cannot be the same kingdoms as the ten horns on the 4th Roman beast. Only 7 of the horns survived (see previous post of mine). The ten toes must also be much larger than localised European kingdoms, because when Christ comes, the entire planet is affected...Jesus isn't coming just to deal to Europe. The following may be tweaked a little, but the intentions of the coming NWO is clear....for example, a proposed union between Canada the US and Mexico as one region and Europe as another, along with NZ, Australia, and South Africa as another is already being hotly debated is it not?View attachment 5232

The statue is mystery Babylon, not the ten toes.

When Christ returns mystery Babylon will be destroyed, not the nations.

You cannot invite the earth up into 10 parts call that the toes.

There never will be a one world nation.

The proposed union of Canada, US and Mexico died on the vine years ago,

Got a link about your supposed union of Australia etc. being hotly debated. Never even heard of the proposal.

Your map shows Russia and China unified. You cannot seriously believe that.

And Israel unified with Muslim countries. Wow!

 

[brakelite]

The statue is mystery Babylon, not the ten toes.

When Christ returns mystery Babylon will be destroyed, not the nations.

You cannot invite the earth up into 10 parts call that the toes.

There never will be a one world nation.

The proposed union of Canada, US and Mexico died on the vine years ago,

Got a link about your supposed union of Australia etc. being hotly debated. Never even heard of the proposal.

Your map shows Russia and China unified. You cannot seriously believe that.

And Israel unified with Muslim countries. Wow!

I have seen several versions of that map. One had Australia NZ and Israel united. Like I said, any such plan in the final analysis is going to see some adjustments, but the point was not to dogmatically assign any group as sacredly established but to show that the idea of ten regions is on the table. It isn't my imagination so don't go off at me for it. Nor is it my idea.
As for the statue being mystery Babylon, well, in a sense yes...but they are also 4 distinct separate empires, the later ones inheriting the characteristics of Babylon...but the statue is not solely a representative of a spiritual ethos. It has a timeline...and Daniel 7 and 8 fills in the gaps and offers greater insight into the same subject matter,

 

[brakelite]

Here's another from a long time ago, which means the idea is not new.

 

[brakelite]

There never will be a one world nation.

This I agree with. But there will be a one world religion under the auspices of Rome, and using the power of her civil and adulterous relationships with the kings of the earth will legislatively enforce her false doctrines,just as she did during the dark ages, only on a global scale .

 

[brakelite]

Your map shows Russia and China unified. You cannot seriously believe that.

None of the maps show that. You need to brush up on your geography lessons.

 

[Enoch111]

Particularly that little horn which uprooted 3 of the other 10, who fulfilled the criteria of that prophecy????

Putting the focus on *the little horn* is precisely where your idea that the Papacy is the Antichrist falls apart. That prophecy has not been fulfilled as yet, since the little horn is none other than the future Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast of Revelation whose mark is 666.

We do not know which 10 kingdoms (nations) will be directly involved with the Antichrist, but they must arise out of the former Roman empire.

 

[brakelite]

Putting the focus on *the little horn* is precisely where your idea that the Papacy is the Antichrist falls apart. That prophecy has not been fulfilled as yet, since the little horn is none other than the future Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast of Revelation whose mark is 666.

We do not know which 10 kingdoms (nations) will be directly involved with the Antichrist, but they must arise out of the former Roman empire.

Mate, you need to be willing to let go of futurism if it can be seen that prophecy has already been fulfilled. Remember, the Jesuits invented futurism to remove the condemnation of the reformers accusing fingers away from Rome. If they could've denied that the Papacy fulfilled the prophecies, they would not have needed to invent something completely new...so they created a new hermeneutic.
The fact that the Papacy does meet all the criteria is all the evidence that God Himself placed in scripture for our enlightenment. If we ignore what God, and subsequent history, has revealed, then we are placing our own opinion above God's word and changing "times" (prophetic) just as the little horn did.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, since you believe in Amillennialism, you would not understand any prophecies concerning the future.

There is no fabrication of *a false prophecy* when properly interpreting the dream of the Nebuchadnezzar, and the additional visions given to Daniel, which all tie into Revelation, and are connected to the three major empires which arose after the Babylonian.

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. (Daniel 2:40,41)

Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream of *a great image* to show that the head of gold represented the Babylonian empire, the chest and arms of silver represented the Medo-Persian empire, the belly and thighs of brass represented the Graeco-Macedonian empire, and legs of iron represented the Roman empire. History confirms that this is how these empires succeeded each other, and all the countries around the Mediterranean Sea belonged to Rome at one time.

So now the question arises as to what succeeded Rome, or what would represent the former Roman empire at the time that the Antichrist (the Beast) would take control of the earth in the future (definitely not the Papacy).

Daniel said (as revealed by God) that:
1. *The kingdom shall be divided* -- and the Roman empire eventually fell apart.
2. *But there shall be in it of the strength of the iron* -- which meant that it would not disappear altogether, and would be revived.

We know from recent history that the European Union was formed out of the former Roman empire. There are presently 28 countries in the EU, of which 20 were in the former Roman empire. The 8 which were not are Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ireland, and Poland. At the same time there are many countries not in the EU but were formerly in the Roman empire -- 13 Middle Eastern countries, 4 Balkan countries, 4 Central Asian countries, and a few other European countries.

So for the ten kingdoms or nations to arise out of this huge mass of countries and be associated with the Antichrist is not far-fetched at all. At this point it would be premature to make any definite connections.

I thought I understood the prophecies of the future as a Dispensationalist until I studied Jesus' description of the kingdom in the NT. And after that became Amillennial.

 

[CoreIssue]

Here's another from a long time ago, which means the idea is not new.
View attachment 5233

Not new but still false.

 

[CoreIssue]

None of the maps show that. You need to brush up on your geography lessons.

Post 82

 

[friend of]

Mate, you need to be willing to let go of futurism if it can be seen that prophecy has already been fulfilled

Uh, Jesus didnt return a second time to judge the nations.

 

[friend of]

@brakelite @Dave L and anyone with a Preterist or Historicist view

2 Peter 3:10 makes it clear what happens in the end times. How has this scripture been fulfilled by the Preterist view specifically?

 

[brakelite]

Post 82

Uh huh. Geography lesson needed.

 

[CoreIssue]

Uh huh. Geography lesson needed.

A meaningless post.

 

[brakelite]

@brakelite @Dave L and anyone with a Preterist or Historicist view

2 Peter 3:10 makes it clear what happens in the end times. How has this scripture been fulfilled by the Preterist view specifically?

Historicism doesn't preclude that there's prophecy yet to be fulfilled. Historicism merely follows Jesus direction for understanding prophecy...
“And when these things begin to come to pass (in other words, actually take place in history), then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” (Lu 21:28 AV)
Joh 13:19 Now I tell you before it come (Prophecy), that, when it is come to pass (when it becomes history), ye may believe that I am he.

We draw our faith in God's omnipotence and wisdom from the "more sure word of prophecy". But that faith comes from our witness to the prophecies being fulfilled...not in guessing as to what is going to take place in the future. Now while it is true that we have a specific idea on what is to come, this is based solely on what is written, and the character and nature of those involved in the fulfillment of prophecy. Which is why we know what the beast is...and how he's going to behave in the future. A leopard cannot change its spots. (See Revel 13:13)

As to that prophecy of Peter's above, I find it very difficult reconciling a secret rapture with that picture. Rapturists claim the rapture refers to the thief in the night...here Peter declares otherwise. The thief comes with great noise and fanfare...so the thief aspect can only be referring to the surprise with which His timing comes. Which harmonises with the scriptures regarding those happily living their lives right up to the end, oblivious of the times in which they live. We however, historicists that is, no the times in which we live, and will not be taken by surprise.

 

[brakelite]

A meaningless post.

Please try and be humble and compare....

 

[CoreIssue]

Historicism doesn't preclude that there's prophecy yet to be fulfilled. Historicism merely follows Jesus direction for understanding prophecy...
“And when these things begin to come to pass (in other words, actually take place in history), then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” (Lu 21:28 AV)
Joh 13:19 Now I tell you before it come (Prophecy), that, when it is come to pass (when it becomes history), ye may believe that I am he.

We draw our faith in God's omnipotence and wisdom from the "more sure word of prophecy". But that faith comes from our witness to the prophecies being fulfilled...not in guessing as to what is going to take place in the future. Now while it is true that we have a specific idea on what is to come, this is based solely on what is written, and the character and nature of those involved in the fulfillment of prophecy. Which is why we know what the beast is...and how he's going to behave in the future. A leopard cannot change its spots. (See Revel 13:13)

As to that prophecy of Peter's above, I find it very difficult reconciling a secret rapture with that picture. Rapturists claim the rapture refers to the thief in the night...here Peter declares otherwise. The thief comes with great noise and fanfare...so the thief aspect can only be referring to the surprise with which His timing comes. Which harmonises with the scriptures regarding those happily living their lives right up to the end, oblivious of the times in which they live. We however, historicists that is, no the times in which we live, and will not be taken by surprise.

Better read again. Peter talks about a thief in the night happening at the end of the millennial kingdom.

Your problem is you're trying to merge two time frames into one. One at the end of the church age and beginning of the Tribulation Period and one after the MK at the end of time.

 

[friend of]

As to that prophecy of Peter's above, I find it very difficult reconciling a secret rapture with that picture.

I don't think that particular scripture is speaking about rapture. It does describe what happens when Christ returns, though.

And remember, at one point, before the papacy, the Historicist position was, at one time in history, futurist in the sense that it was looking forward to prophecy being fulfilled in the future. So to me if prophecy can be fulfilled to a Historicist then I see no reason why it could t co tongue to be fulfilled o the future.

Peter talks about a thief in the night happening at the end of the millennial kingdom.

Wouldn't this be talking about the rapture? During Christ's millennial reign, the world is going to be totally aware of Christ and his kingdom and it's not going to be surprising anyone.