Mary, Queen of Heaven

[Renniks]

As I quoted in the OP :
We read in Revelation:
"A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." (Rev 12:1).

This can taken to be a reference to Mary – “and she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev 12:5), which is Jesus. She has on her head a crown – as do queens.

Or:The woman of the Apocalypse—described as being “clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars” (verse 1)—represents Old Testament Israel. In the Old Testament, God referred to His people as a woman whom He had dressed in honor and splendor (Ezekiel 16). The garland with 12 stars may be symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel (Genesis 37:9-10).

But the Catholics make it Mary who they claim never died, another non biblical theory, but was taken up into heaven, again putting her on the same level as Jesus.

 

[Philip James]

Does "Ave Maria" tell us to bow to Mary?

Much love!

Hello marks,

Let's review your question shall we?

"How exactly do you give honor to the Queen of Heaven?"

Ave Maria, is the salutation the angel Gabriel addresses Mary with.
We honour Mary in the same way...

If its good enough for the angels, it works for me

Peace be with you!

 

[marks]

As I quoted in the OP :
We read in Revelation:
"A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." (Rev 12:1).

This can taken to be a reference to Mary – “and she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev 12:5), which is Jesus. She has on her head a crown – as do queens.

This crown in Revelation 12:1, it's 'stephanos', which is the victory laurel, rather than the 'diadem', the ruler's crown.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

Actually, it doesn't say Jesus took the throne, rather, that it will be given to Him. Just the same. When asked, Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world. The time is coming when Jesus will sit on that throne, the throne of David, after He returns in glory.

I'm curious now, do you think Mary will be at Jesus' right side on a throne when Jesus rules the earth from His throne?

Much love!

So the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write 'The King of the Jews,' but that he said, 'I am the King of the Jews.'"

Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."

Peace!

 

[Renniks]

Hello marks,

Let's review your question shall we?

"How exactly do you give honor to the Queen of Heaven?"

Ave Maria, is the salutation the angel Gabriel addresses Mary with.
We honour Mary in the same way...

If its good enough for the angels, it works for me

Peace be with you!

Where does scripture tell Christians to honor Mary?

 

[marks]

Hello marks,

Let's review your question shall we?

"How exactly do you give honor to the Queen of Heaven?"

Ave Maria, is the salutation the angel Gabriel addresses Mary with.
We honour Mary in the same way...

If its good enough for the angels, it works for me

Peace be with you!

I was just looking at the translated lyrics, which seem to tell us to bow to Mary. I can't think of any place that Gabriel bows to Mary, or tells others to, am I missing something?

If the translation I looked at is correct, then the lyrics . . . well, let me must get that again . . .

We want to bow quietly to fate
Wir woll'n uns still dem Schicksal beugen,

As your holy consolation wafts to us;
Da uns dein heil'ger Trost anweht;

Bow to the maiden,
Der Jungfrau wolle hold dich neigen,

The child who pleads for the father.
Dem Kind, das für den Vater fleht.

Ave Maria!
Ave Maria!

If proper honor of Mary means bowing to her that doesn't seem right to me.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

Where does scripture tell Christians to honor Mary?

When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son"

Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home

Peace!

 

[marks]

So the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write 'The King of the Jews,' but that he said, 'I am the King of the Jews.'"

Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."

Peace!

So how do you reconcile these seeming disparate sayings? "My kingdom is not of this world" - Jesus; and "What I have written (ie. King of the Jews) remains written" - Pilate.

?

It sounds like we've debating over discovering Jesus to be a King of Israel in the same fashion as the ancient kings, so Mary can be the queen mother, when she was never a queen.

On this above question, while Pilate writes Jesus was the King of the Jews, Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. Which is true?

Much love!

 

[marks]

When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son"

Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home

Peace!

We should always endeavor to make provision for our families!

Much love!

 

[marks]

So the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write 'The King of the Jews,' but that he said, 'I am the King of the Jews.'"

Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."

Peace!

This kind of demonstrates the error of the day about Jesus, that He was supposed to be the conquering king over Israel, instead of the suitable sacrifice to die for the people.

He was rejected by Israel from being King, and the kingdom was not given Him at that time.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

I was just looking at the translated lyrics

What are the lyrics to ‘Ave Maria’, and who wrote it? - Classic FM

 

[Mungo]

I agree, it can be taken that way. But it can also be taken to mean Israel, isn't that so? It seems to me the passage points more that direction, but I agree it's debatable. But I don't see who this comes out and tells us Mary is the Queen of Heaven, or a queen mother.

There is much symbolism in Revelation but as the woman is the mother of the child "who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron,", which is Jesus, she must be Mary. And she wears a crown and so is a queen. The one "who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron" refers back to psalm 2:9

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;

You've written "stands", I'm looking at KJV which reads "did stand".

This is Young's Literal Translation:

8 Myrrh and aloes, cassia! all thy garments, Out of palaces of ivory Stringed instruments have made thee glad.
9 Daughters of kings [are] among thy precious ones, A queen hath stood at thy right hand, In pure gold of Ophir.
10 Hearken, O daughter, and see, incline thine ear, And forget thy people, and thy father's house,

This seems to me to be about something different, as a past tense thing.

Much love!

I use the RSV which says stands.

 

[marks]

So the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write 'The King of the Jews,' but that he said, 'I am the King of the Jews.'"

Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written."

Peace!

Do you have any thoughts on whether Mary will be at Jesus' side when He sits on His throne in Jerusalem?

Much love!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Personally I find this more plainly denied in the Bible. If you have "Immaculate Conception", then, "Last Adam" becomes a moot point.

Much love!

That's right, and if you think about it, there are only two people in the history of mankind who were sinless--the first Adam (before the Fall) and the last Adam, Jesus Christ (who never sinned). Otherwise, all have sinned..., according to Paul.

 

[marks]

What are the lyrics to ‘Ave Maria’, and who wrote it? - Classic FM

It turns out there is more than one version.

So, in one case, no, in another yes.

 

[Mungo]

But what I'm saying is, aren't you the queen because you are the wife of the king? And then, when you are no longer the wife of the king, because you are now a widow, yet you retain position if your son becomes king, as 'queen mother'. Isn't that what they were doing?

Much love!

As I said in the OP there are different ways of becoming queen. When a King has more than one wife he may choose one of them to be queen, as we see in the book of Esther, or as in the case of the line of David the mother of the king becomes the queen.
I'm not aware of any instance in the Bible where the wife of the king of Judah is called gebirah. And As I showed in the OP it was more than an honorary title.

 

[Mungo]

Personally I find this more plainly denied in the Bible. If you have "Immaculate Conception", then, "Last Adam" becomes a moot point.

Much love!

Why does it become a moot point?

 

[Mungo]

Actually, it doesn't say Jesus took the throne, rather, that it will be given to Him. Just the same. When asked, Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world. The time is coming when Jesus will sit on that throne, the throne of David, after He returns in glory.

"she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne" (Rev 12:5)
In the exchange between Jesus and Pilate that you refer to about Jesus being a king, Jesus is speaking in the present tense.

I'm curious now, do you think Mary will be at Jesus' right side on a throne when Jesus rules the earth from His throne?

Much love!

I don't believe in this 1,000 year reign sitting on a throne on earth at the end . Jesus is our king now ruling from heaven through his Church.

 

[Mungo]

That's right, and if you think about it, there are only two people in the history of mankind who were sinless--the first Adam (before the Fall) and the last Adam, Jesus Christ (who never sinned). Otherwise, all have sinned..., according to Paul.

Wasn't Eve sinless before the fall?

 

[marks]

I use the RSV which says stands.

I'm not skilled at Hebrew, so I don't try too much. The LXX shows:



. . . so this would be their understanding while it was still a spoken language.

Much love!