Mary the Queen of Heaven?

[Grailhunter]

Ah, I thought I was in a discussion with a Christian: my mistake.

The Trinity is an essential Christian doctrine; and original sin is also foundational.

Here's a link to the site's policy on the Trinity.

"Please note that taking a position contrary to the doctrines outlined in the statement of faith is not allowed for our Christian members. The Trinity, while open to discussion, is not open to dispute, except by other faith members."

Policy Change - Topics On The Trinity Can Now Be Discussed at CyB Updated - 20/12/2024

Christianity Board has alway prided itself in being a place of scholarly discussion, friendship and an environment where members can grow, learn and share their experiences in Christ. Our team at Cyb have worked hard over the years to ensure that this ethos is maintained and upheld however, we...

www.christianityboard.com

The doctrine of the 3 in 1 God and Original sin are not biblical. Just because a false belief is popular does not make it true.

 

[David1701]

The first marriage was between one man and one woman, but that did not last long. And the Mosaic Law regulated polygamy and concubinage, but never spoke against it.

The doctrine of the 3 in 1 God and Original sin are not biblical. Just because a false belief is popular does not make it true.

I'm sorry, but I'm unwilling to continue a discussion with a professing Christian who rejects the Trinity. You are going on "ignore".

 

[David in NJ]

Naught shall be granted unto thee ’less thou dost repent, mend thy ways, and inscribeth a Hail Mary prayer. Then shall I ponder thy request.......

Does this mean you have repented from the idotraous ways of Roman catholicism?

The fear of the Lord is Knowledge and understandings.

These Blessings from Above only come when you repent from idolatrous religion that masquerades as Christ

First off it is not a Gospel. It the history of Christianity. Like I said, there were a lot of changes in Christianity after the biblical period. Those changes do not violate the Gospel.

i SEE you have been listening to the Serpent

 

[David in NJ]

This is a warning for the faithful to keep away from the revolt ignited by martin luther.

Quite the contrary

RCC is the "other gospel" which the LORD Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Apostles Peter, Paul, John warned us of.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm sorry, but I'm unwilling to continue a discussion with a professing Christian who rejects the Trinity. You are going on "ignore".

Even though the Trinity does not appear in the scriptures I do not reject the Trinity. I believe in the Godhead of the Trinity, 3 Gods, Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit. Where Yeshua sits on throne to the right of Yahweh, His Father.

 

[Scott Downey]

The fact God the Father has committed all judgement to the Son, proves He is God come in the flesh.
His testimony the unbelieving Jews recognized Him as saying such,

Bible Gateway passage: John 5 - 21st Century King James Version

After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. In these lay a great multitude of invalid folk -- blind, halt, withered -- waiting for the moving of...

classic.biblegateway.com

14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said unto him, “Behold, thou art made whole. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.”

15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him whole.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath day.

17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.”

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do; for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son and showeth Him all things that He Himself doeth; and He will show Him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son,

23 that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father who hath sent Him.

24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.

25 “Verily, verily I say unto you, the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in Himself, so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself,

27 and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

28 Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice

29 and shall come forth — they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 “I can of Mine own self do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father who hath sent Me.

31 If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.

32 There is Another that beareth witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesseth of Me is true.

33 “Ye sent unto John, and he bore witness unto the truth.

34 But I receive not testimony from man, but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

35 He was a burning and a shining light, and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John; for the works which the Father hath given Me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of Me that the Father hath sent Me.

37 And the Father Himself, who hath sent Me, hath borne witness of Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.

38 And ye have not His Word abiding in you; for Whom He hath sent, Him ye believe not.

39 “Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life; and it is they which testify of Me.

40 And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life!

41 I receive not honor from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I have come in My Father’s name, and ye receive Me not; if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, who receive honor one from another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe My words?”

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus has seen the Father as He came from the Father's side, and the Father sent Him down from Heaven to the earth, but no man has seen the Father.


John 6

41 The Jews then [g]complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus’ Statement on Seeing the Father​

In John 6:46, Jesus says, “No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only He has seen the Father,” affirming His unique, direct relationship with the Father and His role as the sole revealer of God’s fullness Bible Hub+1.

Biblical Context​

In John 6:38–46, Jesus explains that He came down from heaven not to do His own will but the Father’s will, and that the Father’s will is that all who believe in the Son may have eternal life. In verse 46, He concludes by stating that no one has seen the Father except the One who is from God — Himself Bible Gateway+1. This follows His claim to be the Bread of Life and His teaching that only the Father draws people to Him Bible Gateway.

Meaning of “Seen”​

The Greek term here (heōrēsen) can mean “perceived,” “recognized,” or “understood,” not just “physically observed” Evidence For The Bible. Jesus is not denying that the Father can appear or speak — Scripture records the Father’s voice at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:5; 2 Peter 1:18) — but He is emphasizing that no human has experienced the Father’s full, unveiled presence except the Son Evidence For The Bible+1.

Theological Significance​

• Unique Relationship: Jesus shares the Father’s divine nature and has existed in perfect fellowship with Him from before creation (John 1:1–2, 14) Bible Hub.
• Exclusive Revelation: As John 1:18 and 14:9 affirm, “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son… He who is in the Father’s bosom.” Jesus alone can make the Father fully known to humanity Bible Hub.
• Authority to Teach: Because He has seen the Father, His words and works reveal God’s character and truth with authority Bible Hub.

Practical Implication​

For believers, this means that knowledge of the Father is possible only through the Son. Jesus’ mission is to reveal the Father, and faith in Him is the means by which we come to know God personally (John 17:3; 14:6–9).

In summary: Jesus’ statement affirms His divine origin, His exclusive access to the Father’s presence, and His role as the only one who can reveal the Father to the world Bible Hub+2.

 

[Scott Downey]

Sorry, but Mary does not figure into knowing God or the Son, nor do her prayers or any prayers offered to Mary.
Jesus teaches that only He fully knows the Father, and only those He chooses can know God through Him.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 11 - 21st Century King James Version

And it came to pass when Jesus had finished commanding His twelve disciples, He departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. Now when John had heard in prison of the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, and they said unto Him, "Art thou He that should come, or do we look for...

classic.biblegateway.com

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight.

27 “All things are delivered unto Me by My Father, and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

28 “Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.”
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In Matthew 11:27, Jesus teaches that only He fully knows the Father, and only those He chooses can know God through Him.​

Biblical Context​

The phrase "no one knows the Father except the Son" comes from Matthew 11:27, where Jesus says, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him” (NIV) BibleGateway.com. This emphasizes the unique, intimate relationship between Jesus and God the Father, highlighting that Jesus has full knowledge of God’s nature, will, and purposes GotQuestions.org.

Meaning of "Know"​

In the biblical sense, the Greek word translated as "know" means to become fully acquainted with or to have deep, personal understanding GotQuestions.org. This is not merely intellectual knowledge but an intimate, relational awareness. The verse underscores that God’s true nature cannot be fully understood apart from Jesus, who reveals the Father to humanity.

Implications for Believers​

Jesus extends this revelation to those He chooses, meaning that humans can know God only through Christ. This forms the basis for Christian belief in Jesus as the mediator between God and humanity. By following Jesus and accepting His teachings, believers are granted access to a deeper understanding of God’s character, love, and plan GotQuestions.org.

Theological Significance​

• Divine Revelation: God’s knowledge is fully known only to Himself and the Son, emphasizing the mystery and sovereignty of God Bible Hub.
• Mediator Role of Christ: Jesus acts as the bridge through which humans can know God, highlighting His unique role in salvation BibleGateway.com.
• Intimacy and Relationship: The verse invites believers into a personal relationship with God, not just abstract knowledge, reflecting the relational nature of faith GotQuestions.org.
  In summary, "no one knows the Father except the Son" teaches that Jesus possesses complete knowledge of God, and through Him, believers can also come to know the Father, emphasizing the centrality of Christ in understanding and experiencing God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Chiniquy complained to the Bishop of Chicago (Anthony O'Regan) about his treatment of the Catholic French Canadians there. The bishop threatened to excommunicate him, if he did not agree to be reassigned elsewhere. Chiniquy refused to be reassigned, so the bishop later sent him a letter of excommunication. This is hardly "moral terpitude"!

Chiniquy is far from the only person to think that the Jesuits were likely involved in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln; and, it was Abraham Lincoln who defended Chiniquy, in a court case, in 1855, brought by another Catholic (Peter Spink).

Yes – ONLY if you include the likes of the late anti-Catholic cartoonist Jack Chick and fugitive conman Alberto Riveera.

BOTH of these yahoos have been DEBUNKED so many times that it is comical you would consider their false accusations as anything other than the manure that they are. There are entire websites committed to exposing Chick’s nonsense.

For crying out loud – these idiots were adherents of Alexander Hislop and his ridiculous book, The Two Babylons., which has been debunked by virtually EVERY theologian and historian - Protestant, Cathoolic and secular . . .

Your characterisation of Chiniquy as being "expelled" from Protestant due to "embezzlement" and "misappropriation of money" is also an over-the-top exaggeration of the facts.

Yes, let’s TALK about that court case . . .

First of all – Lincoln was one of a team of lawyers on that case. And the reason there was a court case in the first place is because Chiniquy was being SUED by Peter Spink for $40,000 because of false and slanderous claims against him.

In the END, having NO other alternative – Chiniquy’s layers (including Lincoln) finally convinced him to settle the matter OUT of court or be faced with having to pay the ENTIRE fine.

Chiniquy was a LIAR, and an embezzler – as his Protestant congregations eventually discovered . . .

The Bible ONLY speaks of the "Queen of Heaven" as a pagan title (and it's only mentioned in the O.T.),

WRONG.

The Bible mentions PAGANS who worshipped and offered sacrifices to a female deity whom THEY referred to as “Queen of Heaven”.

NEVER as a title for Mary.

Let’s explore this . . .

So, you’re a Biblical Literalist, who believes that ONLY those things that are explicitly-mentioned in Scripture are those things we are to adhere to? NO room for Symbolism, Allegory or Implied Truth - of which there is PLENTY on Scripture?

Please EXPLAIN, then how you come to Protestant doctrines and practices like:
- Sola Scriptura
- The Rapture
- Accepting Christ as personal Lord and Savior
- Limited Atonement
- Altar Calls
- Infant Dedications
- Eternal Security - “Once saved, always saved”
And MANY others . . .

The title, “Queen of Heaven” can be attributed ti Mary because if the implicitly-taught truth in Revelation:
Rev 12:1
A great sign appeared in the sky, a WOMAN clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head A CROWN OF TWELVE STARS.
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

This is what is known to theologians as “polyvalent symbolism” (sorry for the big words).

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read:
“She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.”

This can ALSO represent Israel because of the Twelve Stars on her crown – and the fact that Jesus came from the Jews.

“Polyvalent” means that there are multiple meanings to a symbol.
There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Revelation 12 is Mary.

 

[David in NJ]

Even though the Trinity does not appear in the scriptures I do not reject the Trinity. I believe in the Godhead of the Trinity, 3 Gods, Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit. Where Yeshua sits on throne to the right of Yahweh, His Father.

Correction
1.) The Trinity of Elohim(Plural) begins in Genesis chapter 1

2.) The word "trinity" is not in the Scriptures.

3.) The TRUTH of 'Elohim is THREE' is in the Holy Scriptures = Beginning in Genesis

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry, but Mary does not figure into knowing God or the Son, nor do her prayers or any prayers offered to Mary.
Jesus teaches that only He fully knows the Father, and only those He chooses can know God through Him.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 11 - 21st Century King James Version

And it came to pass when Jesus had finished commanding His twelve disciples, He departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. Now when John had heard in prison of the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, and they said unto Him, "Art thou He that should come, or do we look for...

classic.biblegateway.com

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight.

27 “All things are delivered unto Me by My Father, and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

28 “Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.”
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

In Matthew 11:27, Jesus teaches that only He fully knows the Father, and only those He chooses can know God through Him.​

Biblical Context​

The phrase "no one knows the Father except the Son" comes from Matthew 11:27, where Jesus says, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him” (NIV) BibleGateway.com. This emphasizes the unique, intimate relationship between Jesus and God the Father, highlighting that Jesus has full knowledge of God’s nature, will, and purposes GotQuestions.org.

Meaning of "Know"​

In the biblical sense, the Greek word translated as "know" means to become fully acquainted with or to have deep, personal understanding GotQuestions.org. This is not merely intellectual knowledge but an intimate, relational awareness. The verse underscores that God’s true nature cannot be fully understood apart from Jesus, who reveals the Father to humanity.

Implications for Believers​

Jesus extends this revelation to those He chooses, meaning that humans can know God only through Christ. This forms the basis for Christian belief in Jesus as the mediator between God and humanity. By following Jesus and accepting His teachings, believers are granted access to a deeper understanding of God’s character, love, and plan GotQuestions.org.

Theological Significance​

• Divine Revelation: God’s knowledge is fully known only to Himself and the Son, emphasizing the mystery and sovereignty of God Bible Hub.
• Mediator Role of Christ: Jesus acts as the bridge through which humans can know God, highlighting His unique role in salvation BibleGateway.com.
• Intimacy and Relationship: The verse invites believers into a personal relationship with God, not just abstract knowledge, reflecting the relational nature of faith GotQuestions.org.
  In summary, "no one knows the Father except the Son" teaches that Jesus possesses complete knowledge of God, and through Him, believers can also come to know the Father, emphasizing the centrality of Christ in understanding and experiencing God.

@Grailhunter

JESUS Commandment = "No one comes to the FATHER but thru ME"

Praying to anyone other then CHRIST, to come to the FATHER, is in fact, another gospel.

 

[bdavidc]

assumptions?



from what i shared in post #75, you've got three possibilities to pick from:

1) Jesus judge men alone.
2) Jesus judges men and woman, with woman judged via Mary.
3) Jesus judge men and women, Jesus contains both aspects.

Based on 1 Corinthians 14:34-38, Paul went with option 1.
The catholic went with option 2.
the rebel churches went with option 3.




martin luther invented new doctrines.


you won't receive any scripture from me until you repent, make amends, and post a Hail Mary prayer........

You are twisting Scripture to support doctrines that God never taught! First Corinthians 14:34-38 says absolutely nothing about Jesus judging only men, Mary judging women, or Jesus possessing male and female aspects. You invented those interpretations. They are not in the text!

Jesus said, “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son” (John 5:22). That leaves no room for your invented role for Mary.

Your reference to Martin Luther is irrelevant. I follow Jesus Christ, not Luther, Catholicism, Protestantism, or any other religious tradition. If anyone's teaching contradicts Scripture, reject it!

And now you refuse to provide Scripture unless I repent and pray a Hail Mary? That is not a biblical argument. That is an attempt to replace the authority of God's Word with your religious demands!

First Timothy 2:5 declares, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Scripture never commands anyone to pray to Mary.

I will not pray to Mary, and I will not submit to doctrines that cannot be established from Scripture.

Either prove your claims from God's Word or stop presenting your man-made teachings as biblical truth. You have no authority to add to what God has written!

 

[Grailhunter]

Correction
1.) The Trinity of Elohim(Plural) begins in Genesis chapter 1

2.) The word "trinity" is not in the Scriptures.

3.) The TRUTH of 'Elohim is THREE' is in the Holy Scriptures = Beginning in Genesis

LOL you are funny. False beliefs are powerful. LOL And that is one of my ministries. The debunking of false beliefs. I am a college educated Theologian educated in five countries. So I do know the truth. Your homework assignment is......How many times did Yahweh say in the Old Testament that He was the only God and there was no one like Him. How many times? Over a hundred scriptures debunk the 3 in 1 God formula for the Trinity. Yeshua Himself described the oneness concept.....while talking to Yahweh....but most do not pay any attention to that long set of scriptures.

Now don't get the wrong impression......The Protestants made church wedding a requirement to be married in the 16th century. Before that wedding were voluntary and Catholics would not even allow wedding in their churches. Wedding ceremonies are a wonderful thing! And the right change.

Christianity has also prohibited polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. And for the most part put an end to fathers picking their daughter's husband and receiving money for her. But this is still practiced in different part of the world. The prohibition of polygamy, concubinage and slavery is a very good thing. But technically a couple living together is not a biblical sin. And as far as God is concerned, they are married because biblically the sexual union consummates the marriage.

My initial point was that "Bible only" does not work. There were a lot of changes after the biblical period, that were not biblical and if they had not changed, Christianity would be a pretty weird religion.

Part of a theological education is history and without knowing history there is a lot of Christianity that Christian do not know and false beliefs have crept in

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter

JESUS Commandment = "No one comes to the FATHER but thru ME"

Praying to anyone other then CHRIST, to come to the FATHER, is in fact, another gospel.

Agreed.

 

[David in NJ]

LOL you are funny. False beliefs are powerful. LOL And that is one of my ministries.

OK - Got it = false beliefs is one of your ministires................lol brother

Now, let's get SERIOUS with TRUTH

The Trinity begins in Genesis chapter 1

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

 

[Grailhunter]

The Trinity begins in Genesis chapter 1

Nope, just because you find a three aspect in God's name does not prove the three in one formula for the Trinity.
Word games don't hold water over explicit scriptures. How many time did Yahweh say He was the only God and there was no one like Him? And over a hundred scripture prove the 3 in 1 God false.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK - Got it = false beliefs is one of your ministires................lol brother

Now, let's get SERIOUS with TRUTH

The Trinity begins in Genesis chapter 1

In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

False beliefs are powerful. They can lead a person to Hell or set up a filter in the mind so they cannot understand the meaning of scriptures.

For example the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity. The term Trinty was coined pretty early in Christianity but it was not until the 4th century that the Catholics came out with the doctrine of the 3 in 1 doctrine that the term include the 3 persons in 1 God belief.

As I said, false beliefs can set up a filter in the mind so people cannot understand the meaning of scriptures. It can actually control your mind. Some examples of false belief filters in people minds….

When a person reads that Yeshua said 50 or so times….My Father, or My Father in Heaven….The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said….God so loved the world that He gave up His only begotten Son…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads the dozen or so scriptures that say that Yeshua sits to the right of Yahweh…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads any of the several scriptures about Yeshua being the Son of God…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God! Yeshua cannot be the Son of God because that would be father and son and there is only one God.

When a person reads that Yeshua ascended to His Father….The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yahweh said, This is my beloved Son of whom I am well pleased, at Yeshua’s baptism…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said, He does not do His will but the will of the Father…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua prayed to or spoke with Yahweh…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said that Yahweh was His God…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said that the Father will send a helper in His name (The Holy Spirit’)…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said…. But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me….The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When the person reads that Peter said….According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Paul said….not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God! Jesus Christ AND God! That has to be lie! There is only one God.

When a person reads that Yeshua said….You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said to Mary Magdelynn….Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

No matter how many times people read these scriptures that have the false belief filter in their heads….they cannot understand the meaning of these scriptures.

Yeshua explained the oneness concept in several scriptures but people with this false belief filter in their head cannot not understand what He was saying.

 

[David in NJ]

False beliefs are powerful. They can lead a person to Hell or set up a filter in the mind so they cannot understand the meaning of scriptures.

For example the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity. The term Trinty was coined pretty early in Christianity but it was not until the 4th century that the Catholics came out with the doctrine of the 3 in 1 doctrine that the term include the 3 persons in 1 God belief.

As I said, false beliefs can set up a filter in the mind so people cannot understand the meaning of scriptures. It can actually control your mind. Some examples of false belief filters in people minds….

When a person reads that Yeshua said 50 or so times….My Father, or My Father in Heaven….The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said….God so loved the world that He gave up His only begotten Son…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads the dozen or so scriptures that say that Yeshua sits to the right of Yahweh…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads any of the several scriptures about Yeshua being the Son of God…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God! Yeshua cannot be the Son of God because that would be father and son and there is only one God.

When a person reads that Yeshua ascended to His Father….The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yahweh said, This is my beloved Son of whom I am well pleased, at Yeshua’s baptism…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said, He does not do His will but the will of the Father…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua prayed to or spoke with Yahweh…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said that Yahweh was His God…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said that the Father will send a helper in His name (The Holy Spirit’)…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said…. But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me….The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When the person reads that Peter said….According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Paul said….not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God! Jesus Christ AND God! That has to be lie! There is only one God.

When a person reads that Yeshua said….You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

When a person reads that Yeshua said to Mary Magdelynn….Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God…. The false belief filter will stand up and say….That cannot be true, there is only one God!

No matter how many times people read these scriptures that have the false belief filter in their heads….they cannot understand the meaning of these scriptures.

Yeshua explained the oneness concept in several scriptures but people with this false belief filter in their head cannot not understand what He was saying.

Tell us, what is the "false belief" of Genesis chapter 1 ???

 

[David in NJ]

Nope, just because you find a three aspect in God's name does not prove the three in one formula for the Trinity.

i enjoy reading your responses, they can be quite entertaining.

Like this statement = "just because you find a three aspect in God's name does not prove the three in one formula for the Trinity."

Word games don't hold water over explicit scriptures.

Actually, they do!

John 7:38 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

How many time did Yahweh say He was the only God and there was no one like Him?

"The Only True Elohim" = Plurality of Echad

And over a hundred scripture prove the 3 in 1 God false.

Genesis to Revelation Speak of THREE, Who are Echad Elohim

Pray for the LORD to open the scriptures to you = Luke 24:45