Mary was not a host-womb for a supernatural body

[Aunty Jane]

This is spot on. Why does any Christian think the doctrine of Christ is immune from the devil slipping any of his old myth making into it? If that were the case, then God would not have needed Peter warn against it.

Indeed…..the devil will corrupt even the smallest detail in order to perpetuate his lies.
We see even in the translation of the Greek scriptures, the omission of one very small word, that changes the whole meaning of a passage of scripture used to promote a foundational “Christian” doctrine.
Study of the original languages of the Bible can reveal these omissions and it’s easy to see how these false beliefs were accepted gradually, virtually unopposed.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

All the principle elements of old pagan pantheonism for 'god-born' heroes, are repeated in the the super-christ myth of pure blood and immortal body.

Those who believe such lies have no idea that it isn’t true. Most who identify as “Christians” have no idea that 99% of their doctrines are based on satanic lies masquerading as truth. The “angel of light” doing these things is not identified and therefore what he promotes is accepted by the majority.

isn’t that what happened to the Jews in Jesus‘ day? The Jewish religious leaders were so far removed from what their scripture taught that they did not recognize their own Messiah…..he wasn’t what they expected him to be…..so he needed to be silenced while they aggrandized themselves and waited for the real one, who would promote them in the kingdom of God.…….They are still waiting.

Even the JWs don't buy into that one. (But that may only be due to their created christ angel myth, with natural mortal body.)

We accept Jesus for who HE said he was…..”the son of God”. A uniquely created being….not just “an angel”.
He is the Commander of the angelic forces. Only two persons in scripture are said to command the angels
…Michael and Jesus. Since we have no belief in the trinity, there is no scriptural impediment to Jesus having many roles and many names.

What made him sinless in coming into the world through a sinful human woman was his DNA. There was no trace of the defects of sin in his body because it was created by God and implanted by holy spirit.

Her body fed him as he grew inside her womb, and her milk nourished him as a baby, but he was not a son of Adam. He was a replacement for Adam in giving up his sinless life to buy back what Adam threw away for all his children. He fulfilled God’s law….”eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life”…only a sinless life could be offered, and only a mortal can die. Jesus the man, was both.

As for Christ being a “created angel“, Jesus himself said that he was “the beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14) Paul describes him as “the firstborn of all creation” (Colossians 1:15-17) which makes him part of that creation. He was then used as the agency “through“ whom all things were made.
Proverbs 8:30-31 describes him as God’s “Master Workman” at his Father’s side in bringing all things into being.

As “the only begotten son” of his God and Father, he could volunteer to do what God could not do, and did not need to do….that is to become one of his own creation. To become his own “servant”. (Acts 4:27)

How could an immortal God die to redeem mankind? Jesus was not a spirit in a man’s body but he was 100% human and died the same death as any other mortal creature….he stopped breathing and they buried him in a tomb, where he lay lifeless for three days and nights, just as he said he would. “On the third day he rose form the dead”…..not by himself, but by the power of his God to bring him back to life. (Acts 2:29-32)

He returned to heaven 40 days later after “appearing” to his disciples and others on many occasions. There is no record that he stayed with his apostles during that time because he was not raised in the flesh, needing food and shelter, he was raised in spirit form. (1 Peter 3:18) Only spirits can inhabit the spirit realm where he was returning.

After his return to heaven, he still called Jehovah his God….four times in this one verse.…Rev 3:12.
“The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.”

I believe that there is more evidence for what what JW’s believe about Jesus than any butchered doctrines from Christendom…..I was raised with those doctrines, and found them all to be from non-biblical sources.

The word “Catholic” is used to describe only one branch of “Christianity”, yet it describes way more than that…..it literally means “universal” or ‘accepted by all’…..and it was the only “Christianity” for many centuries, growing more and more corrupt……but it’s where Catholic doctrines come from that is interesting….their core teachings permeate all false worship….multiple gods…..an immortal soul…and a hell of torment for the wicked or a heaven of bliss for the good…..only the names are changed to promote the lies.

Christianity has no nationality, so any church that identified as “Roman” or any other geographical location is not genuine. (Acts 10:34-35) Rome adopted “Christianity” on its own terms and carried its false teachings into what became a fusion of Roman mythology and practices, with a very weakened Christianity of the times. An astute Roman emperor consolidated his divided empire by giving the people one state religion….a religion that catered to all….a “universal” (Catholic) church, peppered with false religious ideas that catered to both persuasions……and then these were carried over into Protestantism when the defection from the completely corrupt Catholic church could not be stopped. The ‘daughters’ unfortunately, took a lot of their mother’s dirty laundry with them when they left.

If anyone thinks that the divided churches of Christendom teach real Christianity, then they are seriously misled by the one who wants to guide them into traveling the wrong road…..only a hated “few” will be found on the cramped and narrow road to life, “doing the will” of the Father. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23: John 15:18-21)

Genuine Christians are not hated because of what they do or believe, so much as for what they refuse to do and believe. There is only one truth. We will not find it on our own. (John 6:44, 65)

 

[Ghada]

.
Continuing from post No.11

FAQ: You say Jesus was one of David's paternal descendants. How is that
possible if he had God's blood in his flesh?

Would you elaborate on God's 'blood'? I know you're not speaking of the ichor of the Gods. But there is now the blood of Christ washing the members of His flesh and bone on earth.

REPLY: According to Lev 17:11, the life of the flesh is in the blood. Well
then, in order for Jesus to be David's bona fides paternal descendant, he had
to have human blood in his flesh due to the fact that his paternal ancestor
David was human.

Exactly. And the maker of this 'pure' blooded christ body, agrees he isn't a HUMAN man at all. (Yeah, I know. But that's another part of the myth)

One of the oldest creeds in the book states that Jesus is fully God and fully
Man.

Exactly. It's in direct opposition to the decetism being preached here. Being fully man simple means Jesus Christ is come in the flesh and one blood of all men and women on earth.

In 1 John 4, God didn't see the need to state the obvious to unbelievers. Jesus Christ comes in the flesh is enough for believers, to know He was fully man with a natural body of our own.

Well that creed would be grossly mistaken if something other than
human life was in Jesus' blood.

Exactly. The Spirit's life was in His heart and soul, but man's natural life's blood was in His natural body. Afterall, He was a man.

Plus: on numerous occasions Jesus referred
to himself as "son of Man" which, likewise, would be patently false were
human life not in his blood.

Excellent. Great additional point made. And many have wondered why He referred to Himself that way. The main one being humility, but in this context it's to confirm He was a man like an man after the flesh. As you quoted earlier: His body was naturally made in everything the same as any man's. Just not the same way in a virgin.

FAQ: Why are there people out there trying to disconnect Jesus from the
human race?

There's always a reason for every heresy, especially when obvious correction is refused.

REPLY: They mean well;

I don't agree in all cases.

but are unaware that disconnecting Jesus from the
human race disqualifies him from taking David's throne;

The dirty secret being to disqualify Him from being any man's example to follow and walk as: Not continuing in dead works.

There are some here that actually say a double-minded man of Romans 7 is a better example for Christians, because he would be a more realistic example of Christians. (Yeah, I know again.)

which would
remove him from any and all lists of possible candidates for Messiah, thus
helping the Devil clear a path for the anti Christ, viz:

Exactly. And the prime example of an false christ given by John, is the most obvious he could think of: a docetic christ coming only as a man, but not a man coming into the world.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

if people dismiss
the real Christ they will accept a fraud because frauds will be all that's left
for them to choose from.
_

Perfect point, and exactly what Jesus the man warns of:

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Someone comes in their own name with their own christ, that they are willing to receive. And the only reason for not receiving the flesh and blood man Jesus Christ, is the same yesterday as today:

They want a christ they can sin with and not be blamed for not walking as their supernatural christ or created christ angel.

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

I've often wondered about this, but in this context it's perfectly clear. Those not believing Jesus is the true Christ, simply do so in order not to need repent of their dead works.

They will receive another christ of their own making, in order not to repent and convince themselves of heaven anyway. They die in their sins, because they would rather continue in their sins unto death.

The super christ that is not a man of natural flesh and blood, cannot possibly be followed and walked with by men and women of natural bodies, and so that false christ does not command nor can even require his disciples walking as he walked.

 

[Ghada]

Somehow I knew you'd be back after letting your jets cool. In the heat of the moment, sinners tend to say things and make promises that they never keep.

“We”…. Not.

Of course not. We is me and others like me. Not you. I don't speak for everyone, especially those that openly disagree with me.

Isa 55
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

You can keep mytholizing the Bible all you wish. The Son was not an brother to Athena coming out of the mouth of God rather than the forehead.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

God coming out of heaven from God, by commandment of God, is not God coming out of God's mouth. The Son kept the Father's spoken commandment. He was not the commandment spoken by the Father.

You do like your myths. You'll twist any words of the Bible spoken from God's mouth, in order to make the Bible just another book of myths, even as others have tried to do.

Jesus Christ was not the latter brother of Athena proceeding out of God's mouth into the world, rather than His forehead.

 

[Taken]

I’m rather bored of being embarrassed for you …

 

[Ghada]

Indeed…..the devil will corrupt even the smallest detail in order to perpetuate his lies.
We see even in the translation of the Greek scriptures, the omission of one very small word, that changes the whole meaning of a passage of scripture used to promote a foundational “Christian” doctrine.
Study of the original languages of the Bible can reveal these omissions and it’s easy to see how these false beliefs were accepted gradually, virtually unopposed.

What I've seen is God always has one or two indisputable verses of the Bible, that divide the believer from the unbeliever. Afterward, that divide is seen on every other verses that speak of the same thing.

One example is The Word was God. And in this thread's context, Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,

It's not even necessary to go any deeper into original languages and manuscripts.

Those who believe such lies have no idea that it isn’t true.

I am coming to believe this. It was John meant when saying the light shines, and the darkness does not comprehend it. Their blindness to the truth of God's words, as well as in this case the natural sciences, is complete. There is no reasoning. However, it is also willful blindness.

It shows that there is something more at stake with some errors, than just simple pride. Their very conscience is invested in the lie. Their justification relies on it.

isn’t that what happened to the Jews in Jesus‘ day? The Jewish religious leaders were so far removed from what their scripture taught that they did not recognize their own Messiah…..he wasn’t what they expected him to be…

Exactly, nor what they wanted Him to be. They didn't want a Messiah delivering them from their own sins and trespasses, but delivering them from their enemies perceived sins and trespasses against them.

Once again, we are seeing it here. Some Christians do not want a Christ delivering them from all their sinning, but only some of it. And so they make a christ for themselves that they cannot possibly walk like and with, so they are excused from repenting of all dead works.

An alien christ with an unnatural uber-body is the case in point.

We accept Jesus for who HE said he was…..”the son of God”. A uniquely created being….not just “an angel”.
He is the Commander of the angelic forces. Only two persons in scripture are said to command the angels
…Michael and Jesus. Since we have no belief in the trinity, there is no scriptural impediment to Jesus having many roles and many names.

Uh-oh. Hello created christ angel.

Good thing I included the indisputable verse that the Word was God.

I don't have time now. But when I do, we shall see how now every verse pertaining to the Godhead will be divided between you and me, the believer in John 1:1, and the unbeliever.

Now I see why you think it's 'necessary' to go to the Greek to prove common doctrine of the Bible. It's to change the English words into something else.

 

[Ghada]

I’m rather bored of being embarrassed for you …

Is this good bye again? Parting is such sweet sorrow. I can only await your return.

Jesus Christ was not the word proceeding out of God's mouth into the world, nor was His sister Athena the wisdom proceeding out of His forehead.

This really is funny stuff when you think about it. I truly am glad this site only requires a statement of Christian faith and not any faithfulness to the Bible. There's nothing personal here with me, other than the sincere fact that I am truly fascinated by what you have coming out of God's mouth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Uh-oh. Hello created christ angel.

Since Jesus himself confesses to being “the beginning of God’s creation”…are you not now doubling down on what you perceive to be true? Scripture says that the pre-human Jesus was created. What prevents him from being created by the one who is his ‘begetter’? He is unique…..unlike all the other “sons of God”.

Good thing I included the indisputable verse that the Word was God.

Since this is a forbidden topic on this site, all I can give you is the original Greek rendering of that very misinterpreted scripture….

“In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros ·ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.”

That little word “ho” is seen with reference to God and to the Logos there. But when God and his son are mentioned together in one verse or passage, the definite article “ho” distinguishes between the two.
The logos was “with” ho theos……but he was not “ho theos”.

Since the Jews had ceased to utter God’s name, (the Greeks had no word for a nameless God since they had hundreds and all of them were named) the singular God of the Jews was referred to by the use of the definite article where necessary….”THE God” of the Jews.

Was Jesus “THE God” or was Jesus just “god” (theos) a god-like or divine one? The phrasing in Greek can mean “the Word was everything God was”…..like Father, like son.
“Theos” according to Strongs Concordance means “any god or goddess, or divinity”. As you said it can even refer to satan.

Check out John 10:31-36 and see that God himself called the human judges in Israel “gods” (theos).
All Jesus said was that he was “the son of God”……if he was God then what an auspicious time to proclaim it…they were already accusing him of blasphemy for claiming that God was his Father.

I don't have time now. But when I do, we shall see how now every verse pertaining to the Godhead will be divided between you and me, the believer in John 1:1, and the unbeliever.

I cannot respond anymore, so feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss this topic privately.
I am sure you have had these discussions before and you are either right or wrong, as am I …..it’s more about whom we choose to believe than what.

If we choose to believe the lie because we trust our sources…will God correct us?

 

[Ghada]

Hello. Again. Back again so soon? Don't worry about it. No one ever really means goodbye on this site. That's why I never say it.

You really should put away all your si-fi garbage and your accusations built upon such garbage and try reading Scripture before attempting to engage in a Spiritual conversation.

Once again, Since you've not shown any place where my rendering of your teaching is clearly different from yours, then it stands as accurate.

Until then, you'll just have to offended at having your stuff rendered accurately.

I mean, c'mon. Do you really think you can just preach a christ with an unnatural body, that is not a man. And talk about being a HUMAN man vs some other kind of man. And not have any fun poked at you??

What you call 'spiritual conversation' I call taking yourself and what you teach too seriously. Afterall, any normal child would not take you serious, if you started telling them about being a HUMAN man. Even mother apes don't put up with that kind of talk from ape children, about being a PRIMATE ape vs some other kind of ape.

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

No one said God was a “thing”…(but you) Gods Word is a “holy thing” !

And so, now you say God's Word is not God. The Word is a holy thing, and God is not a thing.

You see how far from the Bible you get, once you depart from the Bible and refuse to be corrected by the Bible?

You get yourself all tongue-tied and contradict yourself.

Gods Word is a “holy thing” !

His Bible certainly is.

The Word made flesh by obeying the God to come down out of heaven, and to be man dwelling among men and women, is not a 'thing' holy or unholy, projected nor propelled out of the mouth of the God into the earth. (Now, Lucifer as an unholy thing spit out of God's mouth, might well fit symbolically speaking...)

Words on paper are things in a book, not the people writing them.

Becoming spiritually minded does not include suspending natural understanding of earthly things.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 1:

[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus' body was not made, matured, and born by the Spirit of God alone, having nothing to do with a 'host-womb' of a woman.

Jesus was not just born as a man, but was born a man. He was a man born of a woman.

Once again, if you apply John 1:12 to Jesus' body, then you must do so for all born again sons of God.

Being born of flesh and blood and will of man and woman, is called being men and women born of women. It's not a sin to be born of flesh and blood on earth. It's just no way to be born of God by faith in His true Christ.

Your docetic heresy is getting tiresome. Until you come up with something new that I can add to the list and address, I'll not continue repeating myself, after you just repeat yourself.

 

[Ghada]

Once indisputable parts of the Bible is rejected, Then we shall now see how all Bible is interpreted oppositely. One by faith in all words of the Bible, and the other by unbelief in parts of the Bible, that leads to more and more reshaping of the Bible in that area.

Such as that of the Godhead: The Word was God.

Since Jesus himself confesses to being “the beginning of God’s creation”…

Yes, the Word was in the beginning with God creating the heaven and the earth with God, because the Word was God.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest;

He's not just the first, but also the last.

are you not now doubling down on what you perceive to be true?

Yes. Exactly. Actually I've more than quadrupled down over time, as I see more perfectly what is true of the Bible, when correcting what is not.

Scripture says that the pre-human Jesus was created.

Your book. Not my Bible.

What prevents him from being created by the one who is his ‘begetter’?

Because He's God.

He is unique…..unlike all the other “sons of God”.

True, As the Lord and Creator of heaven and earth, He's neither created as a spirit, nor as a man needed be born again of the Spirit.

Since this is a forbidden topic on this site, all I can give you is the original Greek rendering of that very misinterpreted scripture….

Don't mind me. I believe any heresy ought be open. I find it good exercise to accurately correct it by the Bible.

That little word “ho” is seen with reference to God and to the Logos there. But when God and his son are mentioned together in one verse or passage, the definite article “ho” distinguishes between the two.

Ho-hum to your ho games with words. I stick with the English in order to prove doctrine of Christ. Greek 'scholars' in such cases are just charlatans trying to change the plain English into something.

If you choose to write the word was a god, in your own book. Do so. Doesn't bother me in the least.

Since the Jews had ceased to utter God’s name,

Bunch of mystical pseudo-humility worshippers of angels. I don't know about your 'uttering' of names, but you certainly feign humility about making God the Father 'better' than God the Son, while worshipping angels.

The only name of God I utter by name, is Jesus.

(the Greeks had no word for a nameless God since they had hundreds and all of them were named) the singular God of the Jews was referred to by the use of the definite article where necessary….”THE God” of the Jews.

Great. And the risen God of Israel is The God of the Christians.

Was Jesus “THE God” or was Jesus just “god” (theos) a god-like or divine one? The phrasing in Greek can mean “the Word was everything God was”…..like Father, like son.
“Theos” according to Strongs Concordance means “any god or goddess, or divinity”. As you said it can even refer to satan.

I don't mind arguing Bible. I don't bother arguing linguistics to avoid the Bible. Nor do I wrangle over words just to confuse the issue at hand.

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

You see, the main difference between us is not that we always argue from opposing sides of every verse of the Godhead. But rather you change verses to do so. I don't. Any verse I refer to, I argue from what it says, not from what I want it to say.

The main practice of false teachers, is to go to original languages and manuscripts to change things around. By this pseudo-scholar practice, I have learned that the principle doctrines of the Bible do not need, nor should ever have arguments by other means than the simple translations God has given us.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If you want to argue your christ from my Bible, then do so. But I am not interested nor impressed in the least with your lingual machinations.

Check out John 10:31-36 and see that God himself called the human judges in Israel “gods” (theos).

True. and Jesus confirmed it. The devil also said men would be as gods, by disobeying the Lord God of heaven and earth.

Which is what God said to the Son as Creator of the foundation of the earth and maker of the heavens.

All Jesus said was that he was “the son of God”……

Actually He never said that, but only didn't deny it when others tried to accuse Him of saying it. And as a man, He was the son of God. Even as men that repent and believe Him are the sons of God. Brethren of the Lord.

As the Word, He was God, and as the risen man Christ Jesus, He is God the Son sitting at the right hand of the Father.

if he was God then what an auspicious time to proclaim it…they were already accusing him of blasphemy for claiming that God was his Father.

Once again, your errors are due to sloppy handling of the Bible. He never said He was God, nor even the Son of God. Others accused Him of saying so, in order to falsely accuse Him of blasphemy. Which you would do the same today, if were among them.

Them that had Him crucified for 'blasphemy' of being equal with God, are you doctrinal and spiritual fathers.

Although those unbelieving rulers did have enough Bible sense to know that being the Son of God is being equal with God.

I cannot respond anymore, so feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss this topic privately.
I am sure you have had these discussions before

Yes. Many times. But it's always fun to sharpen up the old sword and renew my mind with the truth correcting the dirty little details of a created christ angel, who also worships the Son, if he's not one of the angels that sinned.

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The thing is, that since you are trying to worship a christ angel, you don't know what God's worship for His Son is.

Or maybe you don't worship your created christ at all? It would be par for the course in not taking God's words seriously.

and you are either right or wrong, as am I ….

We are either right with the Bible in doctrine and right with God in life, or not.

.it’s more about whom we choose to believe than what.

Correct. And I know Whom I believe and walk with personally.

I also know you neither know nor walk with whom you personally believe. Correct?

If we choose to believe the lie because we trust our sources…will God correct us?

True, there comes a point where someone shows they refuse correction in the tiniest detail. And Jesus says to just let them go into their own ditch. And Paul likewise says to just reject them after one or two plain admonitions from the Bible.

And the Word was God.


I'm not exactly sure how making your christ out of a created angel benefits you, but I do know only them that repent of sinning and receive Christ Jesus as both Lord and God, is the only Bible gospel way of being washed free from all sinning and trespass.

I do know, like on this thread, that certain christs are made, just for the express purpose of not having to walk as him, since what they make is impossible to walk with in unnatural uber-flesh. (Of course such christs never really walked on the earth, but only appeared to walk as a man)

 

[Aunty Jane]

We are either right with the Bible in doctrine and right with God in life, or not.

Yes....and it will be Jehovah himself who corrects all of us on the day he sends his judge to separate the “sheep” from the “goats”......until then the majority will assume what is not true about their own walk. The rejection will come as a complete shock to them. (Matt 7:21-23; 1 Cor 10:12)

Correct. And I know Whom I believe and walk with personally.

Don’t you think everyone feels that way? What of those mentioned in Matt 7:21-23? How sure are they of their standing with God when Jesus comes to judge them? How are they “workers of lawlessness”? They have broken the first Commandment by putting another “god” in the Father’s place. (Ex 20:3)

I also know you neither know nor walk with whom you personally believe.

And you are sure of that, are you?.....be careful, 1 Cor 10:12 can sneak up on a person who is not open to the truth but who feels secure in the ones who provided his translation rather than what was actually written in the original languages of the Bible. I trust in the linguistics experts to offer more accurate translation than the dinosaur you seem to trust....translation is the work of men, not God. God didn’t write the Bible in archaic English. Are you yourself trusting in men whilst accusing others of the same thing?

True, there comes a point where someone shows they refuse correction in the tiniest detail. And Jesus says to just let them go into their own ditch. And Paul likewise says to just reject them after one or two plain admonitions from the Bible.

And the Word was God.

“and the Word was.....“theos”, not “ho theos”.... (“theos” in Greek describes any god or goddess or divine entity) God called human judges “gods” because they had his divine authority.....John 1:1 is a poor translation because it doesn’t say in Greek what is translated into English, to support a doctrine that the Bible does not teach.

“33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:31-36 KJV)

You said “Actually He never said that, but only didn't deny it when others tried to accuse Him of saying it.”
He said it....and there it is. (Matt 16:13-17)

Was Jesus divine? No question about that.....but was he God incarnate? If he was, then as an immortal, he could not die.....if Christ did not really die as a 100% mortal human, then the ransom is not paid and we are still condemned. Redemption of the whole human race required a set price.....a sinless life offered for a sinless life lost. Jesus qualified as that set price in becoming “the last Adam”. (1 Cor 15:45) He bought back for Adam’s children what Adam threw away for them....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

If God had come to earth as a man, the price paid would not only have been a ridiculous overpayment, but actually impossible. “The only true God” sent the one he trusted to do what no other human could. (John 17:3)

But arguing is pointless...we will all stand or fall by what we choose to believe.

“A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.....so be it.

 

[Ghada]

Yes....and it will be Jehovah himself who corrects all of us on the day he sends his judge to separate the “sheep” from the “goats”.....

You maybe, not me. His name is Jesus now. I don't even read the name of Jehovah in the Bible, after the Word was made flesh and called Jesus.

.until then the majority will assume what is not true about their own walk. The rejection will come as a complete shock to them. (Matt 7:21-23; 1 Cor 10:12)

Not really. I mean it's just the difference between being neighborly in times of need or not.

Not hard to figure out and pretty easy to judge. That's why Paul says the saints will also judged the world of nations at that time with the Lord and King Jesus Christ.

Don’t you think everyone feels that way?

Of course not. That's why we must always be working out our own salvation with God. As Christian, I didn't always know Him and walk with Him. I've suffered my own time of Romans 7 double heartedness in the faith of God.

They have broken the first Commandment by putting another “god” in the Father’s place. (Ex 20:3)

You're the one with the created idol christ angel. I just repeat your own words. All you do is judged others based on your own obvious idolatry.

I don't personally care one single bit about your religion, your christ, nor your god you call 'Jehovah'. I only care about correcting such things with Bible discipline applied rightly.

And you are sure of that, are you?.....be careful,

Well, I've asked all created christ believers like you, and none of them say they personally know their 'Jehovah' nor Jesus Christ. And some say they don't.

And so to be fair, I'll try again. How about you? Are you any different? Do you personally know your Jehovah and/ or Jesus Christ?

I do personally know and walk with Jesus daily, who was known by His great name Yehovah the God of Israel, before becoming a man and rising from the dead to be the risen God of all the Israel of God, both Jew and Greek.

1 Cor 10:12 can sneak up on a person who is not open to the truth but who feels secure in the ones who provided his translation rather than what was actually written in the original languages of the Bible.

Already made my stand on translations. It doesn't take a Greek or Hebrew scholar to know for certain the basic principles of the doctrine of Christ. Beginning with, And the Word was God.

You don't need to play linguist to say for yourself, the word was only a god.

And I also do know the dirty little secret about what you people prefer a mystical created christ angel. It all goes back to the natural theology of making the soul and the body the same, so that there is either Heaven or el obliviono.

Just an elaborate sideshow for doing away with everlasting torment of the wicked.

I trust in the linguistics experts to offer more accurate translation than the dinosaur you seem to trust...

Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof.

They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

Just because it's new doesn't make it good. Especially the stuff you peddle since last century. Though it does go back in spirit to the days of the apostles.

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

.translation is the work of men, not God. God didn’t write the Bible in archaic English. Are you yourself trusting in men whilst accusing others of the same thing?

And none of the original languages are the original writings by the prophets and apostles. If we're not going to trust in the power of God to keep His word pure and intact by translations, then we cannot trust Him to keep His words the same through copies of the originals.

Your obvious pride in your lingualistics, shows another error in 'going to the Greek' in order to change basic principles of the Bible, that any child can understand to day in their own languages. That is the power of God I trust in.

Your manners bespeaks of Catholic priests of old, who sanctioned their doctrines by having special access to 'original writings'

“and the Word was.....“theos”, not “ho theos”.... (“theos” in Greek describes any god or goddess or divine entity) God called human judges “gods” because they had his divine authority.....John 1:1 is a poor translation because it doesn’t say in Greek what is translated into English, to support a doctrine that the Bible does not teach.

Just can't help yourself, can you. Got to show that lingual stylishness.

It's also bogus scholarship. But, since I don't care about the Greek, when reading and teaching from the English, I don't go down the usually bogus road of arguing the Greek.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

“33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:31-36 KJV)

You said “Actually He never said that, but only didn't deny it when others tried to accuse Him of saying it.”
He said it....and there it is. (Matt 16:13-17)

Ok, thanks. They said He blasphemed, because they knew that being the Son of God is to be God.

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Your turn to be corrected. (No, I don't hold my breath)

Was Jesus divine? No question about that.....but was he God incarnate? If he was, then as an immortal, he could not die.....if Christ did not really die as a 100% mortal human, then the ransom is not paid and we are still condemned. Redemption of the whole human race required a set price.....a sinless life offered for a sinless life lost. Jesus qualified as that set price in becoming “the last Adam”. (1 Cor 15:45) He bought back for Adam’s children what Adam threw away for them..

The Word was God. The Word was made flesh and called Jesus. Jesus was a man.

His natural body dies on the cross, when He departed to preach to the spirits in prison.

..everlasting life in paradise on earth.

JW's skewed Hope of Adam.

Only a thousand years on the earth. Everlasting on the new earth.

And only for those repenting of sinning and being born of God in Christ Jesus.

If God had come to earth as a man, the price paid would not only have been a ridiculous overpayment, but actually impossible. “The only true God” sent the one he trusted to do what no other human could. (John 17:3)

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Especially unbelieving man and woman.

But arguing is pointless...

Only after it becomes one sided, or endlessly repeating itself.

we will all stand or fall by what we choose to believe.

No we won't. We will all be judged by what we do with what we believe.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

If what we believe results in unrepented continued sinning unto the end, then we fall by our works unto the end. The judgement by works in the books afterward are a forgone conclusion, to fulfill all righteous judgment's sake.

“A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.....so be it.

Amen.

So, do your personally know your Jehovah? Jesus Christ?

Are you still sinning with works of the flesh?

As you rightly say, in the end that's all that matters to God. He judges our works, not our beliefs and ideologies.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, do your personally know your Jehovah? Jesus Christ?

Personally? As far as it is humanly possible...yes I do...because Jesus is my teacher. He showed me the Father.....his God...and he showed me what it means to “worship in spirit and truth”.

Are you still sinning with works of the flesh?

Am I still trapped in a sin laden body?...of course...we all are while this world exists. Or are you somehow exempt? Was the apostle Paul exempt? (Romans 7:14-25)

As you rightly say, in the end that's all that matters to God. He judges our works, not our beliefs and ideologies.

1 Cor 2:16...
“For “who has come to know the mind of the LORD (Jehovah), so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ.”

How is it that the mind of God is unknowable, and yet we have the mind of Christ to advise us about him.
Did he not teach us about his Father? Did he not show us how to worship the Father...the God that he himself worshipped? How does God worship himself? How can God have a God? (Rev 3:12)

Romans 11:33-36...
“O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are! 34 For “who has come to know Jehovah’s mind, or who has become his adviser?” 35 Or, “who has first given to him, so that it must be repaid to him?” 36 Because from him and by him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen.”

We can know God only through the teachings of Jesus Christ....the one who glorified his God and Father.....that is what I see as plainly stated.

We will all stand or fall before the same judge......that is the only certainty.

 

[Ghada]

Personally? As far as it is humanly possible...yes I do...because Jesus is my teacher. He showed me the Father.....his God...and he showed me what it means to “worship in spirit and truth”.

Humanly possible? Sounds like 'doctrinally' knowing him.

Am I still trapped in a sin laden body?...of course...we all are while this world exists. Or are you somehow exempt? Was the apostle Paul exempt? (Romans 7:14-25)

This is why you skipped the part of walking as He walked.

Doctrinal knowledge and worship is not knowing and walking with Him.

Paul specifically calls that will worship of angels. It's the gnostic kind of worship of 'knowledge'. It's intellectual idolatry.

I mean, you do worship a created angel afterall.

Did he not teach us about his Father? Did he not show us how to worship the Father...the God that he himself worshipped?

You keep preaching your created christ book, not the bible.

Jesus never worshipped the Father. God doesn't worship God nor Himself.

He only spoke of people that worshipped Him in truth by obeying Him, and not vainly by knowledge worship about Him.

How does God worship himself?

As shown, He doesn't.

How can God have a God? (Rev 3:12)

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

By God the Son becoming a man and having the Father for His God on earth, by loving righteousness and hating iniquity, and so having the baptism of the Spirit shed upon Him.

Don't worry, I'm not going to hold you to the Bible. I'm just practicing the exercise of giving Bible answers to unbelieving carnal assaults on the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Romans 11:33-36...
“O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are! 34 For “who has come to know Jehovah’s mind, or who has become his adviser?” 35 Or, “who has first given to him, so that it must be repaid to him?” 36 Because from him and by him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen.”

We can know God only through the teachings of Jesus Christ...

No, we can only know God by repenting of sinning and doing the will of God through Christ Jesus.

Your doctrinal knowledge is not knowing Him and the power of His resurrection.

Just like the Gnostics you're all about head knowledge. It's a worship of intellectualism. You idolize carnal reasoning and rationalization.

We will all stand or fall before the same judge......that is the only certainty.

True, and we know you're certainty. Still sinning against God unto death, with the usual pathetic excuse of a bogus doctrine of being 'trapped' in that rascally old sin-body of yours.

Your created christ doctrinally makes one for you in your carnal mind, not Jesus Christ.

The doctrine of natural flesh having unseen invisible 'sin' in it, that no Bible verse nor microscope can find, is probably the most pathetic bunch of phantom religious tradition ever.

Actually blaming your sinning with the devil, because there's a 'ghost in your machine'. Just grow up and own your deeds honestly, then maybe you will turn to the true Christ Jesus, and just repent of your sinning already.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Humanly possible? Sounds like 'doctrinally' knowing him.


This is why you skipped the part of walking as He walked.

Doctrinal knowledge and worship is not knowing and walking with Him.

Paul specifically calls that will worship of angels. It's the gnostic kind of worship of 'knowledge'. It's intellectual idolatry.

I mean, you do worship a created angel afterall.


You keep preaching your created christ book, not the bible.

Jesus never worshipped the Father. God doesn't worship God nor Himself.

He only spoke of people that worshipped Him in truth by obeying Him, and not vainly by knowledge worship about Him.

As shown, He doesn't.



But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

By God the Son becoming a man and having the Father for His God on earth, by loving righteousness and hating iniquity, and so having the baptism of the Spirit shed upon Him.

Don't worry, I'm not going to hold you to the Bible. I'm just practicing the exercise of giving Bible answers to unbelieving carnal assaults on the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

No, we can only know God by repenting of sinning and doing the will of God through Christ Jesus.

Your doctrinal knowledge is not knowing Him and the power of His resurrection.

Just like the Gnostics you're all about head knowledge. It's a worship of intellectualism. You idolize carnal reasoning and rationalization.



True, and we know you're certainty. Still sinning against God unto death, with the usual pathetic excuse of a bogus doctrine of being 'trapped' in that rascally old sin-body of yours.

Your created christ doctrinally makes one for you in your carnal mind, not Jesus Christ.

The doctrine of natural flesh having unseen invisible 'sin' in it, that no Bible verse nor microscope can find, is probably the most pathetic bunch of phantom religious tradition ever.

Actually blaming your sinning with the devil, because there's a 'ghost in your machine'. Just grow up and own your deeds honestly, then maybe you will turn to the true Christ Jesus, and just repent of your sinning already.

Hmmmm......judge and jury huh? I’ll let Jesus do the judging and we will see on the day who is still standing....won’t we?
You don’t seem to understand what “sin” is.....but no matter. You have made your choices and so have I.

I’ll leave you to test out your own intellectual superiority on someone else.

“Let he who thinks he is standing....”

 

[Ghada]

Hmmmm......judge and jury huh? I’ll let Jesus do the judging and we will see on the day who is still standing....won’t we?

I'm not judged by angels. The saints in Christ Jesus judge the angels. And any angel not worshipping Jesus Christ is judged not of God.

You don’t seem to understand what “sin” is.....

Sin is any trespass and trasngression against God and His law.

Where no lusting and sinning is, there is no sin.

 

[Webers_Home]

How does God worship himself? How can God have a God? (Rev 3:12)

When the Word of John 1:1-3 came into the world as the flesh of John 1:14,
he didn't come as divine flesh. In point of fact, he came as Jewish flesh.
(Rom 1:3 & Rom 8:3)

Well; as Jewish flesh, the Word was under obligation to comply with Deut 6:4-5,
which says:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love The Lord
your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

He was also obligated to comply with Deut 6:13 which says:

"You shall fear The Lord your God, and serve Him"
_

 

[Webers_Home]

~
Re: Psalm 45:1-7

Personally, I do not recommend using that passage to substantiate Christ's
deity because the Hebrew word translated "God" in that passage is much too
ambiguous. It can pertain to anyone in a position of power; both God and
Man: upper case spelling and/or lower case; for example Psalm 82:1-7.
_

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm not judged by angels. The saints in Christ Jesus judge the angels. And any angel not worshipping Jesus Christ is judged not of God.

in scripture, Jesus is never worshipped. Only God is worshipped…..Jehovah is the God of Jesus, even in heaven. (Rev 3:12)

Sin is any trespass and trasngression against God and His law.

Where no lusting and sinning is, there is no sin.

Nonsense……..we are all born in sin…..it is in our DNA, passed down through Adam’s lineage to all his children. (Rom 5:12)
Paul spoke of the sin in his flesh warring with his mind that wanted to live a sinless life.

Romans 7:14-25….
”14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”

This is what you don’t seem to understand. “Sin” is not just the practice of what is bad in God’s eyes….it is the weakness born in us…..it is what leads to the practice.
Are you somehow superior to the apostle Paul who was privileged to write a large portion of the Christian scriptures? If you don’t have the same battle every day of your life, then you are not a human son of Adam.
You are Jesus Christ…the only other sinless human to have ever existed.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

in scripture, Jesus is never worshipped.

That all depends upon how one defines worship.

For example the wise men worshipped baby Jesus. (Matt 2:2)

The Greek word translated "worship" in that verse is the same word
translated worship in Matt 4:10, which says:

"Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship the Lord your God, and
serve him only.'"

It's also the same word translated "worship" in Heb 1:6 which says:

"When God brings his firstborn into the world, he says: Let all God's angels
worship him."

NOTE: The wise men sought to worship baby Jesus by two different Greek
words. The first we saw in Matt 2:2. The second is located in Matt 2:11
where it says:

"On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they
bowed down and worshipped him.

That word is kind of peculiar as it basically speaks of a dog licking its
master's hand. It shows up again in Luke 24:52 which says:

"And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy"

Now look Aunty Jane: if you detest the idea of worship for Jesus fine and
dandy, but you really ought not be implying others are doing something
bad when they do it.
_

 

[Ghada]

in scripture, Jesus is never worshipped. Only God is worshipped…..Jehovah is the God of Jesus, even in heaven. (Rev 3:12)

In your book and life Jesus Christ is not worshipped. In the Bible and my life He is:

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Including the angels of God. The angels and people that do not worship Him, are not of God nor the Father.

Since you deny worshipping your created christ-angel, then I guess it's not accurate to say you worship angels.

He's just a made-up foil for your doctrine of heaven or oblivion.

Nonsense……..we are all born in sin…..it is in our DNA, passed down through Adam’s lineage to all his children. (Rom 5:12)

Your accusation against Christ is false. God does not put 'sin' into man's flesh, and tempt man to sin. God is not the tempter. The devil is. And Satan is not the maker of any flesh and blood on earth.

Whatever excuse you want to believe for your unrepented sinning is fine by me. There are plenty of such excuses made by many unrepented Christians.

I don't make any such excuse. If I sin, then I still can have Jesus for my Advocate with God to repent and be forgiven and washed clean in His blood.

But that's only if I sin.

Paul spoke of the sin in his flesh warring with his mind that wanted to live a sinless life.

Paul was not speaking of himself while writing Romans 7. Only holy men of God write the words of God. The holy prophets and apostles were not double minded sinners when writing any Scripture from God.

Making Paul a double minded sinner for life, in order to justify being one, is another false accusation against God and His apostles.

This is what you don’t seem to understand. “Sin” is not just the practice of what is bad in God’s eyes….it is the weakness born in us…..it is what leads to the practice.

I've given you the Bible and my reasoning of it. You don't address any of it. No problem.

Are you somehow superior to the apostle Paul who was privileged to write a large portion of the Christian scriptures?

Falsely accusing God, the apostle, and now me to justify yourself is your M.O.

If you don’t have the same battle every day of your life, then you are not a human son of Adam.

Having the battle and falling in the battle are not the same.

I am a daughter of my mother and father. I don't know Adam. Obviously, you claim him as your dad, because you make the same excuses for sinning he did.

You are Jesus Christ…the only other sinless human to have ever existed.

Sinless is a life without sinning from cradle to grave. Jesus is the only man to do live sinlessly in this life. Repented saints in Him are simply not sinning today.