Mary was not a host-womb for a supernatural body

[Aunty Jane]

In your book and life Jesus Christ is not worshipped. In the Bible and my life He is:

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Have you ever done original language word studies on these topics? If you had, you would understand that one of the words translated as “worship” is in Hebrew “a·vadhʹ which basically means “serve.” Jesus said he did not come to ‘be served’ but to ‘serve’ his God and his disciples by faithfully fulfilling his commission.. (Matt 20:28)

Another Hebrew term that can denote worship is hish·ta·chawahʹ, which primarily means to “bow down” (Genesis 18:2) or to do obeisance. Whereas such bowing could at times simply be an act of respect or of courteous regard toward another person (Gen 18:2; 33:1-6; 37:9-10), it could also be an expression of worship, indicating one’s reverence and gratitude to God and submission to his will.

Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than worship.
However, the context determines in what way the respective words are to be understood.

The Greek is pro·sky·neʹo corresponds closely to the Hebrew term hish·ta·chawahʹ in expressing the thought of obeisance and, at times, worship. The term pro·sky·neʹo is used in connection with a slave’s doing obeisance to a king (Matt 18:26) as well as the act Satan stipulated when he offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. (Matt 4:8-9) Had he done obeisance to the Devil, Jesus would thereby have signified submission to Satan and made himself the Devil’s servant. But Jesus refused, saying: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is the Lord your God you must worship [form of Gr. pro·sky·neʹo or, in the Deuteronomy account that Jesus was quoting, Heb. hish·ta·chawahʹ], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service [form of Gr. la·treuʹo or Heb. ʽa·vadhʹ].’”

I am not sure if you are aware but in the British legal system which Australia adopted as a Commonwealth country, judges used to be addressed as “Your Worship”. In the USA judges are called “Your Honor”...it means same thing, based on the same word.

No human is ever given worship in the scriptures, so if the words translated as “worship” pertain to a human it has the meaning of obeisance as the scriptures in Genesis show. It is an act showing respect or reverence.
Jesus said that God alone is to be worshipped.

Jesus is the son of God, and as a human he was never worshipped even by the angels who are also sons of God. They would have given him due respect and honor as their Commander in Chief....and as God’s unique and “only begotten”.

The angels and people that do not worship Him, are not of God nor the Father.

Since you deny worshipping your created christ-angel, then I guess it's not accurate to say you worship angels.

He's just a made-up foil for your doctrine of heaven or oblivion.

Are you so sure about your facts here? The doctrine of “heaven or oblivion” is not what we believe. Mankind was created to live on earth in mortal flesh.....he was given the opportunity to live forever here on this beautifully prepared planet....all Adam had to do was to remain obedient to his Creator and we would never have known what an evil thing was. So the made up doctrine of “heaven or hell” is what is in error, because God has no such destiny for the majority of the human race....he never did.

Your accusation against Christ is false. God does not put 'sin' into man's flesh, and tempt man to sin. God is not the tempter. The devil is. And Satan is not the maker of any flesh and blood on earth.

Whatever excuse you want to believe for your unrepented sinning is fine by me. There are plenty of such excuses made by many unrepented Christians.

I don't make any such excuse. If I sin, then I still can have Jesus for my Advocate with God to repent and be forgiven and washed clean in His blood.

But that's only if I sin.

You have the propensity to twist everything I say....and then rail against your own accusations....climb down off your pedestal and just listen for once. Who made you the judge of everyone who disagrees with you?

Who said God put sin into man’s flesh? Not me.....You did. Who said God tempted man to sin? Not me....You did. Who said I was an unrepentant sinner....you did.
You remind me somewhat of the tax collector who told God how glad he was NOT to be like the humble sinner standing next to him, whom he despised.
Good grief! Take a listen to yourself.....how righteous do you believe you are by making false accusations against others? Isn’t that sinning? Will you repent? (Matt 7:1-5)

Paul was not speaking of himself while writing Romans 7. Only holy men of God write the words of God. The holy prophets and apostles were not double minded sinners when writing any Scripture from God.

Making Paul a double minded sinner for life, in order to justify being one, is another false accusation against God and His apostles.

Who said Paul was a double minded sinner....again...not me....you did. Who is making false accusations against God? Not me....I know my God well, but apparently he is not the god you worship because my God does not take kindly to being personally judgmental of others. You can disagree all you wish with the beliefs of others, but the one thing God never gave you or me was permission to downgrade anyone personally and as rudely as you have been doing here.

The one important identifying mark of true Christians is love.....let me remind you of what Paul wrote that love is.....and what it is not.
1 Cor 13:4-8...
“Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails....”

Is your sinless life filled with this love? I see no evidence for it.

I've given you the Bible and my reasoning of it. You don't address any of it. No problem.

I have addressed it, just not the way you wanted me to....

Falsely accusing God, the apostle, and now me to justify yourself is your M.O.

Really? Because I disagree with you, I must be guilty and treated like a dog....nice Christianity you have there...

Having the battle and falling in the battle are not the same.

I am a daughter of my mother and father. I don't know Adam. Obviously, you claim him as your dad, because you make the same excuses for sinning he did.

Since we are all Adam’s children, did you or your parents somehow miss out on inheriting his faulty DNA? (Romans 5:12) You must be from outer space then....
Why did Jesus have to be sinless to redeem us? Why did he have to give his life so that we can be forgiven?
How does it work?

Sinless is a life without sinning from cradle to grave. Jesus is the only man to do live sinlessly in this life. Repented saints in Him are simply not sinning today.

I assume that you think you are one of them.....I will disagree with you again....but you are free to believe as you wish....I am not your judge and neither are you mine. I can let Jesus do his job when the time for judgment comes....in the meantime, may I suggest that you tone down your vilifications and act a little more Christ-like.

My mother always said...”you can attract more butterflies with honey than you can with vinegar”.

 

[Ghada]

Have you ever done original language word studies on these topics?

Have you ever read what I think of it?

If you had, you would understand that one of the words translated as “worship” is in Hebrew “a·vadhʹ which basically means “serve.” Jesus said he did not come to ‘be served’ but to ‘serve’ his God and his disciples by faithfully fulfilling his commission.. (Matt 20:28)

Another Hebrew term that can denote worship is hish·ta·chawahʹ, which primarily means to “bow down” (Genesis 18:2) or to do obeisance. Whereas such bowing could at times simply be an act of respect or of courteous regard toward another person (Gen 18:2; 33:1-6; 37:9-10), it could also be an expression of worship, indicating one’s reverence and gratitude to God and submission to his will.

Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than worship.
However, the context determines in what way the respective words are to be understood.

The Greek is pro·sky·neʹo corresponds closely to the Hebrew term hish·ta·chawahʹ in expressing the thought of obeisance and, at times, worship. The term pro·sky·neʹo is used in connection with a slave’s doing obeisance to a king (Matt 18:26) as well as the act Satan stipulated when he offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. (Matt 4:8-9) Had he done obeisance to the Devil, Jesus would thereby have signified submission to Satan and made himself the Devil’s servant. But Jesus refused, saying: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is the Lord your God you must worship [form of Gr. pro·sky·neʹo or, in the Deuteronomy account that Jesus was quoting, Heb. hish·ta·chawahʹ], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service [form of Gr. la·treuʹo or Heb. ʽa·vadhʹ].’

All that Graeco-Hebrew just to change the plain English into something else.

The Word was God, and was made flesh, and let all the angels of God worship Him.

Angels and men who do not worship God the Son, are not of God the Father.

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

”

I am not sure if you are aware but in the British legal system which Australia adopted as a Commonwealth country, judges used to be addressed as “Your Worship”. In the USA judges are called “Your Honor”...it means same thing, based on the same word.

True. They followed Bible precedent, when they were Bible nations.

That all men should worship the Son, even as they worship the Father. He that worshippeth not the Son worshippeth not the Father which hath sent him.

No human is ever given worship in the scriptures,

Not in your bible of a human christ created out of an angel only.

Jesus Christ was worshipped rightly quite often in God's Bible.

Jesus said that God alone is to be worshipped.

Which is why God said of the Son, "Let all the angels of God worship Him."

Jesus is the son of God, and as a human he was never worshipped even by the angels who are also sons of God.

Not by your sinning angels, but only by the angels of God obeying His commandment to do so.

They would have given him due respect and honor as their Commander in Chief....and as God’s unique and “only begotten”.

Your created christ commando is yours alone, not mine.

I can let Jesus do his job when the time for judgment comes....in the meantime, may I suggest that you tone down your vilifications and act a little more Christ-like. My mother always said...”you can attract more butterflies with honey than you can with vinegar”.

Your created christ is sour grapes, not sweet honey.

And your Graeco-Hebraic diatribes are predictable to change plain English. Which makes them worst of all: A waste of thread space.

 

[Ghada]

Are you so sure about your facts here? The doctrine of “heaven or oblivion” is not what we believe.

So, you believe the wicked will suffer everlasting torment in hell and the lake of fire, if they repent not?

So the made up doctrine of “heaven or hell” is what is in error, because God has no such destiny for the majority of the human race....he never did.

Nevermind. Not calling it heaven or oblivion, is a word distinction without a difference.

God had no such destiny of hell for any angel or man, and yet angels and men have sinned, and not all men repent of sinning. Many are still sinners sinning.

all Adam had to do was to remain obedient to his Creator and we would never have known what an evil thing was.

True. Same for every man coming into the world lightened by Christ, and yet all men have sinned.

Who said God put sin into man’s flesh? Not me.....You did.

If not God, then who?

Who said God tempted man to sin? Not me....

If not God, then who tempts man by putting sin in our flesh, that tempts us to sin? Who said I was an unrepentant sinner....you d

Who said I was an unrepentant sinner....

If not, then why say you are still a sinner, that still sins against God?

Who said Paul was a double minded sinner....again...not me....you did.

If not Paul, then who is the writer of Romans 7, that you use as an example for yourself?

 

[Ghada]

Good grief! Take a listen to yourself.....how righteous do you believe you are by making false accusations against others?

Specifics please.

You can disagree all you wish with the beliefs of others, but the one thing God never gave you or me was permission to downgrade anyone personally and as rudely as you have been doing here.

Specifics please.

Really? Because I disagree with you, I must be guilty and treated like a dog....nice Christianity you have there...

Specifics please.

Is your sinless life filled with this love? I see no evidence for it.

I assume that you think you are one of them.....I will disagree with you again....but you are free to believe as you wish...

And so here is clear misstating of others' words. I will now show you how to prove it and correct it:

Where do I teach any Christian being sinless? I teach past sinners becoming non-sinning Christian saints.

Your misstating is on purpose, because I also make it clear that Jesus was and is the only man to be sinless in life, by not sinning all His life.

And so, you are free to do the same with any point I make about your words.

I have addressed it, just not the way you wanted me to....

Talking around something by repeating yourself, is not addressing it.

You can go back and address any specific point I make about the doctrinal error of flesh being made with 'sin' in it.

You can start with a simple one: Who exactly puts sin into flesh and blood of man. Who is the maker of that sin that is put in? I.e. who, other than Christ, is a maker of anything of flesh and blood, and puts sin in it?

Since we are all Adam’s children, did you or your parents somehow miss out on inheriting his faulty DNA? (Romans 5:12) You must be from outer space then....

Making conclusions based on unproven theories, is not proving anything, other than believing your own theories without proof.

Once again: Who is the Maker of sin-filled DNA? Who is the tempter that makes DNA with sin, that tempts people to sin?

You remind me somewhat of the tax collector who told God how glad he was NOT to be like the humble sinner standing next to him, whom he despised.

Oh boy. The ol' tax collector gambit. Saying I am not like you, is not gloating over not being like you. After all, you plainly love to be like you. Being offended at others not like you is a full time pout-job.

Isn’t that sinning?

Disagreeing with you and confessing not being a sinner like you? No.

Will you repent? (Matt 7:1-5)

No thanks. I'll stay repented from sinning and doing Jesus' righteousness at all times.

Who is making false accusations against God? Not me....I know my God well, but apparently he is not the god you worship because my God does not take kindly to being personally judgmental of others.

Your created christ is against being 'judgmental'. Oh boy. Liberal Christianity for our time. Yippee.

You have the propensity to twist everything I say....and then rail against your own accusations....climb down off your pedestal and just listen for once. Who made you the judge of everyone who disagrees with you?

Me. If you don't want to be judged for your judgment of what I say, then go judge someone else.

.I am not your judge and neither are you mine.

Yes, I become your judge, when you come to me to judge what I say.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

(P.s. making accusations without specifics, is not what someone wants to do before claiming not to be a judge.)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where is the face palm when you need it....? “Ignore” button engaged....

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

There is a Christian teaching that Jesus' body was not natural like all babes and men, but supernaturally immortal, like heroes born of the gods of old.

In this case, the question of Nicodemus actually comes into play. He considered the mother's womb to be the only kind of birth of men and women on earth. And pertaining to our bodies, that is exactly true. In fact, it's so obvious, that the natural biology of such things is set aside, while trying to preach some kind of super-christ's body.

It basically says that their christ only came as a man, in the bodily form of a man, and as a babe through the womb. But it only applies to the pathway of the womb into the world, and not the biological maturation and nurturing of the babe while in the womb.

Afterall, how can unnatural flesh and blood receive prenatal nutrients of natural flesh and blood, and not be tainted and corrupted at the same time?

Might that be contributed to by the very virtue and nature of the woman from whom he exited?

It says that their christ came as a man born of a man, but was not a man with natural flesh and blood of the woman. (Which is always by the seed of man.)

Surly you can see how odd this sounds.

Jesus' body was not natural like all babes and men, but supernaturally immortal, like heroes born of the gods of old.

Then "IT" says that their christ came as a man born of a man,

IOW... a man was able to produce a supernaturally immortal creature.

Well... I have only one question what is it?

And the rest of your post I shall not tread into.

And so, it is necessary for that immortally prepared christ-body, must remain separated and independent of the natural nurturing of the babe in the womb, by the mother and child's natural umbilical cord!

"The umbilical cord (also called the navel string, birth cord) is a conduit between the developing baby in the womb of the mother. During prenatal maturation, the umbilical cord is physiologically and genetically part of the babe. The umbilical vein supplies the fetus with oxygenated and nutrient-rich blood."

The preachers of the pureblooded immortal flesh christ, would rather say the ungodly conduit of the sinful seed and sin-filled blood of a corrupt natural womb of a virgin woman!

Therefore, the bodily super-christ theology forbids such 'sinful' and 'corrupting' elements being passed on into the Sacred Body of their christ, that came only as a man by the womb, but certainly was not a man come in the trashy flesh and blood of a natural woman. Yech!

Such a 'conception' is not natural, and only has an appearance of it in the womb. It is actually the body of an alien unnatural immortal creature, that is only implanted in the virgin's womb. And shunning the maturation of the filthy womb itself, it is only sustained and nurtured by the Spirit, until the time to be 'born' from the womb: Host-womb of pseudo-mother Mary. Pregnant in appearance only, but certainly not in flesh and blood. (That ought to get the Mariologists inflamed for sure)

Since there can not be permitted any such foul 'sharing' between natural woman and unnatural babe, then the umbilical cord cannot be naturally usable for that super-babes body in the womb. And so, if the Spirit did indeed also prepare a 'natural-looking' umbilical cord between woman and babe (who has no mother by conception, but only the Father), Then it could only be for appearances' sake, when exiting the host-womb to cut it.

(No one declared the coming of Christ, because of not seeing an umbilical cord to cut) Likewise, if not for the preachers of the super-bodied christ, saying specifically that the immortal babe exited through the womb, then one could possibly wonder of that immortal alien-being popped out through the belly.

And so, unless the Spirit provided a 'filtering device' within the umbilical cord, to purify the nutrients of natural flesh and blood being passed on, then the womb of Mary was only a temporary natural host, for an unnatural christ-body independently placed and grown therein.

As the preachers of immortal flesh and pure blood like to say, Absolutely no seed of David ever got into, nor had any thing to do with, the immortalized flesh of their super-christ!

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (Romans 1)

Note: I know I am playing around with someone's super-christ of immortal body, but hey, if we can't poke a little fun at this stuff, then what's the point? We must not take ourselves too seriously, nor our doctrines we like to make up for ourselves. No matter how super-duper they are.