Matthew 19:30

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

LuxMundi

Member
Dec 25, 2024
389
82
28
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So what is this all about?:

But many that are first will be last, and the last first. Matt 19:30 RSV

A wealthy man asks Jesus what more he must do to gain eternal life, and Jesus suggests that he sell his possessions and give to the poor, because it's difficult for those who hoard wealth to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 19:20-24). This prompted the apostles to ask, "Who then can be saved?" since poverty often makes one sin, through envy and lack of respect for other people's property, and through lack of confidence in Providence, and riches are an obstacle to perfection. (Matt. 19:25)

Jesus said in reply, "What is impossible for men, is possible for God, because everything is possible for God" (Matt. 19:26). It is sufficient for man to help his Lord with his good will. And it is good will to take the advice given and strive to achieve freedom from riches. To achieve complete freedom, in order to follow God. Because this is the true freedom of man: to follow the voices that God whispers to his heart, and His commandments, not to be the slave of himself, or of the world, or of respect of public opinion, and consequently not to be the slave of Satan. To make use of the wonderful free will that God gave man to wish Good only and freely, and thus attain the very bright, free and blissful eternal life. Man must not be slave even of his own life, if to gratify it he must resist God. Jesus had said to them: "He who loses his life for My sake and to serve God will save it forever" (Matt. 10:39;16:25, Mk. 8:35, Lk. 9:24;17:33, Jn. 12:25, Rev. 2:10)

"Well! We have left everything to follow You, even what was lawful. So what about us? Shall we enter Your Kingdom?" asked Peter. (Matt. 19:27)

Those who have followed Jesus thus and those who follow Him—because there is always time to make amends for laziness and sins committed so far, there is always time while man is on the Earth and has days in front of him during which he can redress wrongs done—those will be with Him in His Kingdom. The twelve apostles, who had followed Him in the regeneration, will sit on thrones to judge the tribes of the Earth with the Son of Man Who will be sitting on the throne of His glory. And once again, there is no one who in His Name has left house, fields, father, mother, brothers, wife, sons and sisters to propagate the Gospel and continue His work, who will not receive one hundredfold at that present time and eternal life in the world to come.

If we lose everything how can we centuplicate what we have?

I repeat, what is impossible for men is possible for God. God will give one hundredfold of spiritual joy to those who from men of the world became sons of God, that is spiritual men. They will enjoy real happiness, both here and beyond the Earth. And not all those who seem to be the first, and ought to be the first having received more than everybody, will be such. And not all those who seem to be the last, and even less than the last, as they do not appear to be Jesus's disciples or to belong to the chosen People, will be the last. Truly, many who were first will become last, and many who were last, least, will become first... (Matt. 19:28-30, cf. Potmg: V5 )
 
Last edited:

Fred J

Active Member
Nov 26, 2023
804
182
43
57
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
Hello Fred J,
Jesus preached to the Jews first, they were first told to...
Mark 1:14-15,
- now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying, the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand repent ye and believe the gospel

The Jews were the first to hear the new gospel of Christ and the first who were taught about the kingdom of God being ready to be established.

Matthew 15:24,
- then Jesus said to the women I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel

Matthew 10:6,
- Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican James the son of Alphaeus and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus, Simon the Canaanite and Judas Iscariot who also betrayed Him, these twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them saying,
Go not into the way of the gentiles and into the city of the samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,

- and as ye go preach saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand,
heal the sick cleanse the lepers raise the dead, cast out devils freely ye have received freely give provide neither gold nor silver nor brass in your purses

The Jews were first taught about Jesus and the coming of His kingdom.
Some did believe but not as many as the gentiles that were taught the gospel last.

The rejection of the jews opened access for the gentiles to the new testament gospel,
Acts 13:46,
  - then Paul and Barnabus waxed bold and said it was nessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you(Jews) but seeing ye put it from you and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life lo we turn to the gentiles

Romans 11:12-15,
- now if the gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down Gods offer of salvation think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it
Dear Titus, what's your point?

Thank you
 

Titus

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2022
2,211
659
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
i also take note for some of you, it refers to the Jews first and the Gentiles last.

This verse Jesus addressed to the Jews who were leaders of Israel in disbelieve and contending Him in Israel.

And, also those who believe and rejoice merely based on all the glorious things that were done by Jesus in Israel.

That's why He said, when the Master of the house shall be risen up the door will be shut to these in Israel, who've heard and seen already. (verse 25)

Therefore the Gospel will depart from them in Israel, and apparently will go to the Gentiles and Jews outside of Israel, who've not heard and seen.

Since He was addressing to the Jews in Israel, was He not referring to the remnant of Jews saved by grace in Israel shall be first? (Romans 11:6)

Also on the day of Pentecost, there were also devout Jews from east to the west, and north to the south present and were saved added to the remnant as well?

Wasn't Paul a chosen 'instrument' of Christ, who will bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel outside of Israel?

Since he is the most wanted fugitive in Israel, where at one time a basket was used to have him escape from Israel?


And, finally until the fullness of Gentiles be come in, and so all Israel shall be saved, aren't they the last?

Again apparently scripturally, when the Gospel is done with the Gentiles and the fullness of them be come in already.

Finally, there'll be 'two witnesses' sent to Israel and will minister to the Jews there during the reign of 'anti-Christ'.

By these, how can we testify the Gentiles are last, when all Israel are last to be saved??

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord
- So all Israel shall be saved, Romans 11:26,
Traced back to Romans 11:5
- even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The Jews were already being saved, Acts 2:38-39
Romans 11:26 states that the Jews not yet saved will be saved the same way they have already been saved,
Romans 11:26,
- and so all Israel shall be saved

Do you believe by Paul's statement that all Jews will be saved, every single jew that ever lived?

The Jews were still given the gospel first and saved first but many rejected the gospel. Acts 2:38
The gentiles were second in hearing, believing and being baptized into Christ, Acts 10
 

Fred J

Active Member
Nov 26, 2023
804
182
43
57
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
- So all Israel shall be saved, Romans 11:26,
That is until when the destined full number of Gentiles have come in through the Gospel and are saved.

There's no more Gentiles to minister the Gospel after this since is fulfilled.

Then there will be 'two divine witnesses' sent to the nation Israel to minister to the Jews there.

So the Jews will be the 'last' to be saved, as according to Romans 11:26 prophesied by Paul
Traced back to Romans 11:5
- even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Yes, this remnant includes Jesus' disciples and followers, and the other saved Jews.

Saved from the day of Pentecost onward to the time of Paul's conversion and ministry.

Including himself until He is mentioning this in his epistle to the Roman church.
The Jews were already being saved, Acts 2:38-39
Romans 11:26 states that the Jews not yet saved will be saved the same way they have already been saved,
Romans 11:26,
Yes, the rest of the unsaved Jews will be saved by grace likewise, as how the remnant is saved by grace initially.
- and so all Israel shall be saved
Again at the end, when all the Gentiles destined to be saved have come in.
Do you believe by Paul's statement that all Jews will be saved, every single jew that ever lived?
Yes, Paul prophesied the mystery, that 'all Israel shall be saved' in the end.

Every single 'Jew' meaning, truly they all must be the descendants of Israel/Jacob.

Those who descend from the his 12 sons, the 12 tribes of Israel, 'not' any one who claim to be a Jew.
The Jews were still given the gospel first and saved first but many rejected the gospel. Acts 2:38
The gentiles were second in hearing, believing and being baptized into Christ, Acts 10
And lastly third in hearing, the true Jews in Israel will be saved in the end.

This 'debunks' the speculation the Jews 'first' and the Gentiles 'last'.

When apparently the Jews once again are 'last' to be saved by grace, and then the end will come.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
7,763
2,897
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
That is until when the destined full number of Gentiles have come in through the Gospel and are saved.

That is not what Romans 11:25b-26a states.

The Greek states this when translated: -

"When the fulness, with respect to time, of the Gentiles is completed, after that, all of Israel will be saved.

What you are presenting is the flawed understanding embraced by the Pre-trib theology.

What Paul was pointing to was that when the fulness of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts under the influence and leading of the Little Horn beast will be completed, which will also occur when the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers is visited upon their children and the children's children in the third and the fourth age of the existence of the Israelites is completed.

Both of these events will be completed in around 20 years' time from now which Jesus told His disciples would end around 96 years after the fig tree begins budding leaves once more. The fig tree, i.e. the nation of Israel, began budding leaves in the year 1948 AD and that this would herald the Summer Season of the harvest during the seventh age. This occurred when some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land of Canaan in their own strength during the fourth age of their existence in fulfilment of the Genesis 15:16a prophecy while the fulness of the iniquities of the Amorite people group is coming to its pinnacle of rebelling against God.

Shalom
 

Fred J

Active Member
Nov 26, 2023
804
182
43
57
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
That is not what Romans 11:25b-26a states.

The Greek states this when translated: -

"When the fulness, with respect to time, of the Gentiles is completed, after that, all of Israel will be saved.
You need Greek translation, but we have the Holy Ghost and English translation at hand.

Anyway, what's the different, i still understand the same with the KJV translation i have.
What you are presenting is the flawed understanding embraced by the Pre-trib theology.

What Paul was pointing to was that when the fulness of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts under the influence and leading of the Little Horn beast will be completed, which will also occur when the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers is visited upon their children and the children's children in the third and the fourth age of the existence of the Israelites is completed.

Both of these events will be completed in around 20 years' time from now which Jesus told His disciples would end around 96 years after the fig tree begins budding leaves once more. The fig tree, i.e. the nation of Israel, began budding leaves in the year 1948 AD and that this would herald the Summer Season of the harvest during the seventh age. This occurred when some of Abraham's descendants returned to the land of Canaan in their own strength during the fourth age of their existence in fulfilment of the Genesis 15:16a prophecy while the fulness of the iniquities of the Amorite people group is coming to its pinnacle of rebelling against God.
This is your 'flaw' which is 'heresy' and of 'heretics', am not buying it, no thank you.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
7,763
2,897
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
This is your 'flaw' which is 'heresy' and of 'heretics', am not buying it, no thank you.

You are welcome to believe it or not. 20 years is but a short time to see if what I have posted is true.