Matthew 28:19 and The Trinity

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Fancy yourself a Greek and Hebrew scholar?
Or are you using secondary sources to make you sound as if you are a scholar?

ου γαρ εκρινα του ειδεναι τι εν υμιν ει μη ιησουν χριστον και τουτον εσταυρωμενον

כי לא־אמרתי לדעת בתוככם דבר בלתי אם־ישוע המשיח והוא הנצלב׃

י נֶחֱרָצָה בְלִבִּי לִבְלִי הִתְבּוֹנֵן בֵּינֵיכֶם אֶל־דָּבָר אַחֵר כִּי אִם־אֶל־יֵשׁוּעַ הַמָשִׁיחַ

What is the odds you are going to use Google Translator and what is the odds you are going to say, no, I don't?
J.

firstly I do not Google any Hebrew and Greek. If you find any errors in what In write, then you are free to correct me. There is no point is posting silly comments like, "Fancy yourself a Greek and Hebrew scholar?", I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

No, the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ Jesus is the most important subject...or have you forgotten?
J.

WRONG! HOW can theree be a Crucification and Resurrection, with any knowledge of God, or WHO Jesus Christ is? You have it backwards!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

For the record I believe in the trinity xx
But why different threads on the same thing , why not just add to an existing thread. My point is not the subject but the amount of threads about the same subject

I am dealing with different Bible passagges and views on the Trinity, which need great details to try to undersatnd what the Bible Teaches on this Great Subject

How many times in the Bible does it say, Jesus is God, either directly, or indirectly? MANY. Do you suppose that the Bible needs to say this only once? Why is it repeated?

 

[Johann]

WRONG! HOW can theree be a Crucification and Resurrection, with any knowledge of God, or WHO Jesus Christ is? You have it backwards!

Friend, the one who have it backwards is you
Next
J.

 

[Johann]

firstly I do not Google any Hebrew and Greek. If you find any errors in what In write, then you are free to correct me. There is no point is posting silly comments like, "Fancy yourself a Greek and Hebrew scholar?", I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else!

Of course not, י נֶחֱרָצָה בְלִבִּי לִבְלִי הִתְבּוֹנֵן בֵּינֵיכֶם אֶל־דָּבָר אַחֵר כִּי אִם־אֶל־יֵשׁוּעַ הַמָשִׁיחַ
Hmm..
J.

 

[Johann]

WRONG! HOW can theree be a Crucification and Resurrection, with any knowledge of God, or WHO Jesus Christ is? You have it backwards!

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Besuras HaGeulah. It is the ko'ach (power) of Hashem for the Geulah deliverance [IYOV 19:25; YESHAYAH 43:1], to all who have emunah, to the Yehudi (the Jew) above all, but also the Yevani (Greek).
Rom 1:17 For the Tzedek Olamim, the Tzidkat Hashem (the righteousness of G-d) is having its hisgalus (revelation) in the Besuras HaGeulah by emunah (faith) from first to last, from [orthodox Jewish] Faith to [orthodox Jewish] Faith, as it is written, V'TZADDIK BE'EMUNATO YICHE'YEH ("The righteous by his faith shall live" CHABAKUK 2:4; Ga. 3:11; MJ 10:35).
OJB


וַאֲנִי הִנְנִי מוֹדִיעַ לָכֶם אַחַי עוֹד הַפַּעַם אֶת־הַבְּשׁרָה אֲשֶׁר קָרָאתִי בְאָזְנֵיכֶם הֲלֹא הִיא אֲשֶׁר קִבַּלְתֶּם וּבָהּ אַתֶּם דְּבֵקִים׃
וְגַם־בָּהּ תִּוָּשְׁעוּן אִם־תַּחֲזִיקוּ בַדָּבָר כַּאֲשֶׁר הִגַּדְתִּי לָכֶם כִּי־לוּלֵא כֵן הֶאֱמַנְתֶּם לָרִיק׃
בְּרֵאשִׁית כָּל־דָּבָר מָסַרְתִּי לָכֶם כַּאֲשֶׁר גַּם־אָנֹכִי קִבַּלְתִּי כִּי־מֵת הַמָּשִׁיחַ בַּעֲוֹנֵינוּ כְּפִי כִתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ׃
וְכִי נִקְבַּר וַיָּקָם בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁלִישִׁי כְּפִי כִתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ׃
וְכִי נִרְאָה אֶל־כֵּיפָא וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן אֶל־שְׁנֵים הֶעָשָׂר׃
וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן נִרְאָה אֶל־יֹתֵר מֵחֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת אַחִים כְּאֶחָד אֲשֶׁר רֻבָּם עוֹדָם חַיִּים עַד־הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה וּמִקְצָתָם נָמוּ שְׁנָתָם׃
וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן נִרְאָה אֶל־יַעֲקֹב וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן אֶל־הַשְּׁלִיחִים כֻּלָּם׃
וְאַחַר נִרְאֶה גַם־אֵלָי אֲשֶׁר־כְּנֵפֶל אָנֹכִי׃
כִּי צָעִיר אֲנִי בֵּין הַשְּׁלִיחִים עַד אֲשֶׁר־קָטֹנְתִּי מֵהִקָּרֵא שָׁלִיחַ כִּי רָדַפְתִּי אֶת־עֲדַת אֱלֹהִים׃
אֲבָל בְּחֶסֶד אֱלֹהִים הִנְנִי כַּאֲשֶׁר אָנִי וְחָסְדּוֹ עָלַי לֹא־הָיָה לָרִיק כִּי־יֹתֵר מִכֻּלָּם עָמַלְתִּי וְלֹא אֲנִי כִּי אִם־חֶסֶד אֱלֹהִים אֲשֶׁר עִמָּדִי׃
וְעַתָּה אִם אֲנִי אוֹ הֵם כָּזֹאת אָנוּ קֹרִאים וְכָזֹאת אַתֶּם הֶאֱמַנְתֶּם׃
Since when is the Triune Godhead THE most important subject?
What is Paul saying on this matter?
J.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Friend, the one who have it backwards is you
Next
J.

WHO was crucified and rose from the dead?

 

[Johann]

firstly I do not Google any Hebrew and Greek. If you find any errors in what In write, then you are free to correct me. There is no point is posting silly comments like, "Fancy yourself a Greek and Hebrew scholar?", I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else!

Why don't you respond to what stands written? Perfect Tense?
J.

 

[Rita]

I am dealing with different Bible passagges and views on the Trinity, which need great details to try to undersatnd what the Bible Teaches on this Great Subject

How many times in the Bible does it say, Jesus is God, either directly, or indirectly? MANY. Do you suppose that the Bible needs to say this only once? Why is it repeated?

Where did I say that the many different scriptures can not be discussed , blimey the only point I raised was a personal opinion on how many threads on the same subject were being made by the same members, that’s all. It’s an observation.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Besuras HaGeulah. It is the ko'ach (power) of Hashem for the Geulah deliverance [IYOV 19:25; YESHAYAH 43:1], to all who have emunah, to the Yehudi (the Jew) above all, but also the Yevani (Greek).
Rom 1:17 For the Tzedek Olamim, the Tzidkat Hashem (the righteousness of G-d) is having its hisgalus (revelation) in the Besuras HaGeulah by emunah (faith) from first to last, from [orthodox Jewish] Faith to [orthodox Jewish] Faith, as it is written, V'TZADDIK BE'EMUNATO YICHE'YEH ("The righteous by his faith shall live" CHABAKUK 2:4; Ga. 3:11; MJ 10:35).
OJB


וַאֲנִי הִנְנִי מוֹדִיעַ לָכֶם אַחַי עוֹד הַפַּעַם אֶת־הַבְּשׁרָה אֲשֶׁר קָרָאתִי בְאָזְנֵיכֶם הֲלֹא הִיא אֲשֶׁר קִבַּלְתֶּם וּבָהּ אַתֶּם דְּבֵקִים׃
וְגַם־בָּהּ תִּוָּשְׁעוּן אִם־תַּחֲזִיקוּ בַדָּבָר כַּאֲשֶׁר הִגַּדְתִּי לָכֶם כִּי־לוּלֵא כֵן הֶאֱמַנְתֶּם לָרִיק׃
בְּרֵאשִׁית כָּל־דָּבָר מָסַרְתִּי לָכֶם כַּאֲשֶׁר גַּם־אָנֹכִי קִבַּלְתִּי כִּי־מֵת הַמָּשִׁיחַ בַּעֲוֹנֵינוּ כְּפִי כִתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ׃
וְכִי נִקְבַּר וַיָּקָם בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁלִישִׁי כְּפִי כִתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ׃
וְכִי נִרְאָה אֶל־כֵּיפָא וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן אֶל־שְׁנֵים הֶעָשָׂר׃
וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן נִרְאָה אֶל־יֹתֵר מֵחֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת אַחִים כְּאֶחָד אֲשֶׁר רֻבָּם עוֹדָם חַיִּים עַד־הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה וּמִקְצָתָם נָמוּ שְׁנָתָם׃
וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן נִרְאָה אֶל־יַעֲקֹב וְאַחֲרֵי־כֵן אֶל־הַשְּׁלִיחִים כֻּלָּם׃
וְאַחַר נִרְאֶה גַם־אֵלָי אֲשֶׁר־כְּנֵפֶל אָנֹכִי׃
כִּי צָעִיר אֲנִי בֵּין הַשְּׁלִיחִים עַד אֲשֶׁר־קָטֹנְתִּי מֵהִקָּרֵא שָׁלִיחַ כִּי רָדַפְתִּי אֶת־עֲדַת אֱלֹהִים׃
אֲבָל בְּחֶסֶד אֱלֹהִים הִנְנִי כַּאֲשֶׁר אָנִי וְחָסְדּוֹ עָלַי לֹא־הָיָה לָרִיק כִּי־יֹתֵר מִכֻּלָּם עָמַלְתִּי וְלֹא אֲנִי כִּי אִם־חֶסֶד אֱלֹהִים אֲשֶׁר עִמָּדִי׃
וְעַתָּה אִם אֲנִי אוֹ הֵם כָּזֹאת אָנוּ קֹרִאים וְכָזֹאת אַתֶּם הֶאֱמַנְתֶּם׃
Since when is the Triune Godhead THE most important subject?
What is Paul saying on this matter?
J.

nice copy and paste job, anyone can do that!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Where did I say that the many different scriptures can not be discussed , blimey the only point I raised was a personal opinion on how many threads on the same subject were being made by the same members, that’s all. It’s an observation.

maybe the other members don't know much about the Trinity, or not too interested, or find it a bore?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It’s an observation

by this tone?

Just fed up with the same record being played over and over by certain members with regards to certain subjects ….it gets a bit boring. It’s borderline nagging , in my opinion xx

 

[Johann]

WHO was crucified and rose from the dead?

1Co_2:2. οὐ γὰρ ἔκρινά τι (or ἔκρινα τὶ) εἰδέναι κ.τ.λ.: “For I did not determine (judge it fit) to know anything (or, know something) among you, except (or, only) Jesus Christ, and Him crucified”.

This explains Paul’s unadorned and matter-of-fact delivery.—οὐ negatives ἔκρινα, not εἰδέναι (the rendering “I determined not to know” contravenes the order of words); nor is there any instance of οὐ coalescing with κρίνω as in οὔ φημι (nego) and the like—these interpretations miss the point:

had P. chosen another subject, he might have aimed at a higher style; he avoided the latter, “for” he did not entertain the former notion. cf. Gal_3:1, 1Th_4:14; 1Th_5:9 f., Act_13:38 f., relating to earlier preaching. For the use of ἔκρινα (statui, Bz[299]) as denoting a practical moral judgment or resolution, cf. 1Co_7:37, 2Co_2:1.

Ev[300] renders τὶ εἰδέναι (thus accented), “to be a know-something” (aliquid scire)—to play the philosopher—according to the well-known Attic idiom of Plato’s Apol., § 6, and passim, where οἴεται τὶ εἰδέναι = δοκεῖ σοφὸς εἶναι; cf. 1Co_8:2, and the emphatic εἶναι τὶς (τὶ); also 1Co_3:7, Gal_2:6; Gal_6:3, Act_5:36.

This rendering accounts well for εἰδέναι, and gives additional point to the ὑπεροχὴ of 1Co_2:1 : P. brought with him to Cor[301] none of the prestige of the professional teachers, who claimed to “know something”; Christ and the cross—this was all he knew.

For εἰ μὴ in the corrective sense “only,” demanded by this interpretation, see 1Co_7:17.—εἰδέναι is to possess knowledge, to be a master; γινώσκειν (1Co_1:21), to acquire knowledge, to be a learner. On ἐσταυρωμένον (pf. ptp[302], of pregnant fact), cf. notes to 1Co_1:17; 1Co_1:23.

To make it simple for you...
1Co 2:2 For while I was with you I resolved to know nothing except Jesus the Messiah, [Or Christ] and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 It was in weakness, fear, and great trembling that I came to you.
1Co 2:4 My message and my preaching were not accompanied by clever, wise words, but by a display of the Spirit’s power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on God’s power.

J.

 

[Johann]

nice copy and paste job, anyone can do that!

Sure anyone can, do you understand what you are reading?
J.

 

[Johann]

firstly I do not Google any Hebrew and Greek. If you find any errors in what In write, then you are free to correct me. There is no point is posting silly comments like, "Fancy yourself a Greek and Hebrew scholar?", I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else!

Try the spirits
An Imperative
Much needed on a forum such as this.
J.

 

[Rita]

by this tone?

Just fed up with the same record being played over and over by certain members with regards to certain subjects ….it gets a bit boring. It’s borderline nagging , in my opinion xx

Well it’s still an observation and as a member coming online to read this morning , seeing yet another thread on the same subject I added my thoughts, sorry it obviously hit a raw nerve with you. Not going to add anything more.
There are enough arguments going on between members.
Rita

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

1Co_2:2. οὐ γὰρ ἔκρινά τι (or ἔκρινα τὶ) εἰδέναι κ.τ.λ.: “For I did not determine (judge it fit) to know anything (or, know something) among you, except (or, only) Jesus Christ, and Him crucified”.

This explains Paul’s unadorned and matter-of-fact delivery.—οὐ negatives ἔκρινα, not εἰδέναι (the rendering “I determined not to know” contravenes the order of words); nor is there any instance of οὐ coalescing with κρίνω as in οὔ φημι (nego) and the like—these interpretations miss the point:

had P. chosen another subject, he might have aimed at a higher style; he avoided the latter, “for” he did not entertain the former notion. cf. Gal_3:1, 1Th_4:14; 1Th_5:9 f., Act_13:38 f., relating to earlier preaching. For the use of ἔκρινα (statui, Bz[299]) as denoting a practical moral judgment or resolution, cf. 1Co_7:37, 2Co_2:1.

Ev[300] renders τὶ εἰδέναι (thus accented), “to be a know-something” (aliquid scire)—to play the philosopher—according to the well-known Attic idiom of Plato’s Apol., § 6, and passim, where οἴεται τὶ εἰδέναι = δοκεῖ σοφὸς εἶναι; cf. 1Co_8:2, and the emphatic εἶναι τὶς (τὶ); also 1Co_3:7, Gal_2:6; Gal_6:3, Act_5:36.

This rendering accounts well for εἰδέναι, and gives additional point to the ὑπεροχὴ of 1Co_2:1 : P. brought with him to Cor[301] none of the prestige of the professional teachers, who claimed to “know something”; Christ and the cross—this was all he knew.

For εἰ μὴ in the corrective sense “only,” demanded by this interpretation, see 1Co_7:17.—εἰδέναι is to possess knowledge, to be a master; γινώσκειν (1Co_1:21), to acquire knowledge, to be a learner. On ἐσταυρωμένον (pf. ptp[302], of pregnant fact), cf. notes to 1Co_1:17; 1Co_1:23.

To make it simple for you...
1Co 2:2 For while I was with you I resolved to know nothing except Jesus the Messiah, [Or Christ] and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 It was in weakness, fear, and great trembling that I came to you.
1Co 2:4 My message and my preaching were not accompanied by clever, wise words, but by a display of the Spirit’s power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on God’s power.

J.

the simple answer is, Jesus Christ was cricified and Rose from the dead. Then, when asked, WHO is this Jesus Christ, we tell them, Almighty God Who was manifested in the flesh.

You CANNOT have the crucifiction and resurrection, without Jesus Christ, and WHO He is! This means that GOD is the most Important Doctrire

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Sure anyone can, do you understand what you are reading?
J.

If I don't understand, I don't post!

You have problems, then lets hear them on here. What you are trying to do is put on a side-show on how great you are, as if anyone is interested!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

@Rita you said NOTHING!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Try the spirits
An Imperative
Much needed on a forum such as this.
J.

more nonsense!

 

[Johann]

the simple answer is, Jesus Christ was cricified and Rose from the dead. Then, when asked, WHO is this Jesus Christ, we tell them, Almighty God Who was manifested in the flesh.

You CANNOT have the crucifiction and resurrection, without Jesus Christ, and WHO He is! This means that GOD is the most Important Doctrire

Ah, the spelling mistakes, "cricified" "crucifiction"
I have already addressed the answer to to your question.
Next
J.