Michigan shooting, parents arrested

[Rita]

I have been intrigued by this situation. Is this the first time parents of a shooter have been arrested and potentially charged with involuntary manslaughter ?
Are they being used as an example do you think and what do you think it will have an impact on parents buying guns for older children. I am presuming that he was to young to have a gun of his own, or am I wrong ?
Some of my workmates were talking about it and conveyed that the parents were arrested because they ignored warning signs, my only issue with that is that hindsight is a wonderful thing and there was no way they would have not done something if they honestly thought he was going to kill anyone that day……..
Just wondered what everyone else’s thoughts on the situation were……
Has he conveyed why he went on the shooting spree ?
Rita

 

[GaryAnderson]

I’m sure that people in England or Europe in general are shocked at Americans who buy guns as gifts for their kids.
Even some of us in America are just as shocked as you.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Show this to your friends @Rita .



GOP lawmaker slammed for family photo with ASSAULT RIFLES just DAYS after deadly school shooting | Daily Mail Online

 

[Rita]

Hi Gary,
Yes, I have seen that photo ……but will this situation change anything, will parents think twice before buying them for their children. I knew that this happened and understand that it’s a right of passage for many sons , and with some daughters. The shock for me was the fact that the parents are being charged……..

Part of me thinks it’s a brave move to do this, but equally part of me thinks that it was the son that made the decision to shoot those young people. The parents have lost their son to prison, they will have to live with the knowledge that their actions gave him the means to do what he did, that to me is punishment. ……..
So, at the moment, I am not sure I agree with the decision.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Oklahoma has a law holding parents responsible for their childrens actions....
Oklahoma's Parental Responsibility Law
You can find the full text of Oklahoma's parental responsibility law at Oklahoma Statutes Title 23 section 23-10 (browse the official online version of the Oklahoma Statutes).

Under this law, parents can be held financially liable for certain harm caused by a minor when:

• the minor is under 18 years of age
• the minor is living with the parent at the time of the action
• the minor's conduct amounts to a "criminal or delinquent act," and
• the act results in bodily injury to a person, damage to real or personal property, or theft of property.

Section 23-10 allows any of the following entities to file a lawsuit seeking compensation from the parent or parents of the minor:

• any person
• any corporation
• any organization
• the state of Oklahoma, and
• any county, city, town, municipal corporation or school district in Oklahoma.

So, pretty much any person or organization that has been harmed by a minor's conduct can bring an action under 23-10. But it's important to emphasize that a parent can only be liable under section 23-10 when a minor "commits any criminal or delinquent act." That means the minor's action must rise to the level of criminal behavior as defined by Oklahoma's criminal statutes. In other words, if the minor merely acts carelessly and ends up causing some kind of mishap (such as a car accident), that is not enough to trigger a parent's liability under Oklahoma's parental responsibility law. But the statute would apply to acts of vandalism, or when a minor commits an assault and battery.

What is the Dollar Limit of a Parent's Liability Under Section 23-10?

This area of the statute sets clear financial limits. Let's say a claimant sues a parent under section 23-10, and wins a court judgment holding the parent liable for medical bills or property damage resulting from the minor's conduct. Section 23-10 specifically caps a parent's financial liability at $2,500, so the claimant won't be able to collect more than that amount from the parent.

Oklahoma Parents May Be Liable Beyond Section 23-10
Parental liability for a child's actions may still exist in Oklahoma under traditional fault theories like negligence, beyond the scope of any statute.

Basically, a parent may be liable for any resulting harm if they know of their child's dangerous tendencies, yet they fail to take reasonable steps to properly supervise the child, and someone ends up getting injured in a way that was foreseeable. This isn't an easy case to prove against a parent, but the potential for liability is definitely there. (Learn more about Negligence and the Duty of Care.)

 

[TLHKAJ]

It sounds to me like this boy was a victim of programming. (He wrote a note in school that day asking for help bc he was hearing messages telling him to do this.) Many MK victims/survivors are (recently and ongoingly) being cued for end times/NWO assignments. I know this because I have heard from survivors recently who have deprogrammed enough to be aware that they have experienced attempted cueing.

We may see a lot more things like this, and even grander scale events. Every MK survivor alive today has "End Times" programming. This is why I do what I do, in reaching out to fellow survivors and supporting them in their journeys to freedom.

 

[TLHKAJ]

That being said, his parents would also be victims of MK and programmed as well. I can see by looking at their eyes. Oftentimes when you see a mass shooter sitting glazed over in trial, that is because they are in an altered state and likely have no idea what they've done. Check into the Manchurian Candidate ....it gives a good idea how they can program someone to do things they'd never have done willingly. (And it goes much much deeper than Manchurian Candidate stuff, as they begin when a person is in infancy, or even in the womb to shatter a person's mind, will, emotions.)

 

[Rita]

Thanks H2S
I know that parents can be fined for different things if their child has caused damage or keeps being excluded from school ect.
Is the Oklahoma law also in Michigan and other places?
Rita

 

[Rita]

Hi TLHKAJ
Sorry the quote didn’t work on your posts.
I think it’s too early to tell , there are many mental illnesses that also create voices within the mind, equally to presume that about the parents without knowing their story is really speculating. Jumping to conclusions too soon can label people wrongly.
Over here the press are reporting is that he told his parents that he needed help before he went to school that day, hence why they were arrested because they didn’t act on the warnings.
Did the school know about the note ?

 

[TLHKAJ]

I'm not jumping to conclusions. Many MK survivors have been misdiagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenic .... that's not an assumption. It's common in the MK survivor community, and there are several reasons why that happens.

And as I already said, I know of survivors who have reported being sent programming cues that were meant to set their end times programming in motion. End times assignments often involve assassinations and mass shootings, bombings, etc ....but not always. It depends on whether that person is considered expendable.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Did the school know about the note ?

Yes, they did. There were other indications that he was asking for help but they were overlooked.

 

[Rita]

I'm not jumping to conclusions. Many MK survivors have been misdiagnosed as bipolar or schizophrenic .... that's not an assumption. It's common in the MK survivor community, and there are several reasons why that happens.

And as I already said, I know of survivors who have reported being sent programming cues that were meant to set their end times programming in motion.

My comment about speculation is the fact that you said ‘ it sounds to me as if he is a victim of programming ‘, you then went onto add that ‘ if that was the case then his parents would also be victims ‘ …..to me that’s speculating, perhaps we define the word in a different way.
I do get that there can be misdiagnosis, but equally many times it can be a right one. …….so I am not saying that you could not be right, just saying that we don’t know enough.

 

[TLHKAJ]

My comment about speculation is the fact that you said ‘ it sounds to me as if he is a victim of programming ‘, you then went onto add that ‘ if that was the case then his parents would also be victims ‘ …..to me that’s speculating, perhaps we define the word in a different way.
I do get that there can be misdiagnosis, but equally many times it can be a right one. …….so I am not saying that you could not be right, just saying that we don’t know enough.

Rita, I said that from a lifetime of experience as a survivor as well as 15+ years walking alongside dozens and dozens of other survivors, and hundreds of testimonies of other survivors. I have seen these things and it's a well-known reality in the survivor community.

Also, when someone is a victim of SRA/MK, their parents will be as well since this is carried on by bloodlines. I'm sorry if that's hard to understand.

 

[Rita]

Sorry it won’t let me quote your post again…….
So I guess the school will also be held to account !

 

[TLHKAJ]

Sorry it won’t let me quote your post again…….
So I guess the school will also be held to account !

I seriously doubt it.... this is the first time we've ever seen parents held responsible. That's another reason I feel there's more to this than meets the eye.

 

[Rita]

Rita, I said that from a lifetime of experience as a survivor as well as 15+ years walking alongside dozens and dozens of other survivors. I have seen these things and it's a well-known reality in the survivor community.

Also, when someone is a victim of SRA/MK, their parents will be as well since this is carried on by bloodlines. I'm sorry if that's hard to understand.

I didn’t say anything about your experience, I also didn’t say I didn’t believe it happens , I merely added a comment about this particular situation. It wasn’t a personal dig at your insight and understanding over the matter.

 

[lforrest]

The boy is being charged as an adult, yet the parents are charged for negligent homicide because they didn't keep their weapon from their minor son. The hypocrisy is abhorrent.

 

[Rita]

The boy is being charged as an adult, yet the parents are charged for negligent homicide because they didn't keep their weapon from their minor son. The hypocrisy is abhorrent.

Wow, how can he be an adult at 15 ( or is he 14 ) how are they getting round that as it’s surely law. Or is he 15 turning 16 and they know by the time he goes to trial he would already be classed and tried as an adult.
This whole area of when a child becomes an adult is just so full of grey areas, you can marry and join the army at 16 but you can’t do so any other things until you are 18, and in the US I believe 21. Rita

 

[Cristo Rei]

I think manslaughter is called something else in America... Maybe its murder in the 3rd degree or negligent homicide...

So the parents got charged for that because they bought the child the gun... Hmm... Is this new? Iv never heard of such a thing...

I suppose it makes sense... Aren't parents supposed to be responsible for their children?
And giving a child a firearm does not seem like a responsible thing to do. Kids are unpredictable

Maybe it is fair enough. their abetting his crime by giving him the gun in the first place but i don't know what their gun laws are...
Are kids allowed to have guns in the USA? Probably. So to them buying your kid a gun isn't a big deal i guess

 

[lforrest]

Wow, how can he be an adult at 15 ( or is he 14 ) how are they getting round that as it’s surely law. Or is he 15 turning 16 and they know by the time he goes to trial he would already be classed and tried as an adult.
This whole area of when a child becomes an adult is just so full of grey areas, you can marry and join the army at 16 but you can’t do so any other things until you are 18, and in the US I believe 21. Rita

Minors are sent to juvenile detention when they commit a crime. Unless they are charged as an adult, which puts them through the standard penal system. Don't really know much about it.

There are certain conditions where a kid may shoot a gun with supervision. A lot of people grew up with access to guns.

Children often brag about things that aren't legally theirs.