in an expanding universe and shrinking sun,millions of years ago the sun would have been larger and nearer = scalding steam/boiling water and dust and ashes = no life,not even Dinosaurs = no evolution millions of years ago - twinc
Millions of years ago ?
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That is one of many reasons the universe cannot be as "old" as the evolutionists portray.
Even if you take the earths moon ..... it would have been much closer to earth "millions of years ago" and the moon-tides of our oceans would be the size of huge tsunami waves washing over the earth every 24 hours ..... there would be no life except for marine species.
Even if you take the earths moon ..... it would have been much closer to earth "millions of years ago" and the moon-tides of our oceans would be the size of huge tsunami waves washing over the earth every 24 hours ..... there would be no life except for marine species.
Arnie Manitoba said:
Uh... I think we are leaving out the fact the God Almighty CREATOR of all things is in control of the sun and put it exactly where He needed it. The earth is VERY old
The first verse in Gen. 1:1 is not the same beginning as our earth age.... In the Beginning.... when ever that was! Then in Gen.1:2 the earth had become corrupted and needed to be restored.
Man wonders what they are going to do if we run out of drinking water... I say call upon the Lord to send fresh drinking water. Man does not even acknowledge the mighty works of God's Hand. Our God is mighty and in TOTAL control and is quite aware of all we are going through because HE wrote the Story, past present and future. Don't fear man, fear God!
Job 9:4-10
4 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
5 Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
10 Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
KJV
Ps 148:1-13
148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
7 Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:
8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
9 Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:
10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:
11 Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:
12 Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:
13 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.
KJV
afaithfulone4u
save your breath
You are wasting your time if you feel you are able to teach me anything
Furthermore my reply was to twinc , not you.
OK ?
save your breath
You are wasting your time if you feel you are able to teach me anything
Furthermore my reply was to twinc , not you.
OK ?
The following is well worth reading in my opinion. I have read much over the years about these issues and Robert Hermann is one author that I most recommend to people. I lean towards his conclusions as they fit the model of what I perceive.
I reject darwinian evolution and the means by which life on earth developed and hold to a strict biblical account. Yet as Robert A Hermann points out there is much more to consider than what we may perceive on the surface. Plato describes the shadows dancing on the cave wall and I think that we too put more emphasis on the shadows than the actual object which casts them.
How Can the Earth Be Both 4.5 Billion and 6,000 Years Old
Robert A Hermann, Ph.D
http://www.raherrmann.com/earthage.htm
I reject darwinian evolution and the means by which life on earth developed and hold to a strict biblical account. Yet as Robert A Hermann points out there is much more to consider than what we may perceive on the surface. Plato describes the shadows dancing on the cave wall and I think that we too put more emphasis on the shadows than the actual object which casts them.
How Can the Earth Be Both 4.5 Billion and 6,000 Years Old
Robert A Hermann, Ph.D
http://www.raherrmann.com/earthage.htm
The fatal flaw in that assessment is that the Earth is also part of the expanding universe, and so is the heat that comes from the sun, and the distance between the Earth and the sun.twinc said:
Really goes to show how much critical thought is put into YEC 'rebuttals'.
The issue is "time"
Some say he created everything in 6 days
Some say he did it 6000 years ago
Some say He did it 6 billion years ago
I repeat , the issue is "time"
Albert Einstein and the boys will tell you that "time" is something within our known universe , probably not beyond
Our Creator functions in a realm where there is no "time" (eternity)
Some will use science to say the universe is very very old because it would take thousands of light years for starlight to reach earth , thus the universe must be 6 billion years old or more.
Some will say that if the Creator made the planets and stars in an instant , and stretched them out in an instant , the starlight would have been there from the beginning , and the whole universe could have been made in an instant.
An instant is much shorter than 6 billion years.
So much for mankind trying to figure out anything by using "time" as an equation
When in fact "time" is simply something mankind uses , God does does not have to , God is not restrained by "time" as we know it.
And if God is not restrained by "time" as we know it , we make an error trying to force God to abide by "time" as we know it
Got that ??
You can even set all religious arguments aside , and higher physics will tell you that "time" is the variable , and mankind does not have a reference point to begin with ...... other than possibly saying that at one "time" , "time began" ...... before that , there was "no time" whatsoever .......
Got that ??
Some say he created everything in 6 days
Some say he did it 6000 years ago
Some say He did it 6 billion years ago
I repeat , the issue is "time"
Albert Einstein and the boys will tell you that "time" is something within our known universe , probably not beyond
Our Creator functions in a realm where there is no "time" (eternity)
Some will use science to say the universe is very very old because it would take thousands of light years for starlight to reach earth , thus the universe must be 6 billion years old or more.
Some will say that if the Creator made the planets and stars in an instant , and stretched them out in an instant , the starlight would have been there from the beginning , and the whole universe could have been made in an instant.
An instant is much shorter than 6 billion years.
So much for mankind trying to figure out anything by using "time" as an equation
When in fact "time" is simply something mankind uses , God does does not have to , God is not restrained by "time" as we know it.
And if God is not restrained by "time" as we know it , we make an error trying to force God to abide by "time" as we know it
Got that ??
You can even set all religious arguments aside , and higher physics will tell you that "time" is the variable , and mankind does not have a reference point to begin with ...... other than possibly saying that at one "time" , "time began" ...... before that , there was "no time" whatsoever .......
Got that ??
The smartest remark on this thread heres a video and I would suggest a Google search on Gerald Schroder age of the universe or read one of his books.Arnie Manitoba said:
You will find that there are places in the universe that remarkably see the universe as only six 24 hour days old, but from our vantage point we see 15 billion tears. Time is effected by location as well as speed Einsteins law of relativity, time is relative to the location of the observer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EhrdtTG0nTw
Yes I got it a long time ago Arnie
Hey Rex ..... looks interesting ..... dont have time to watch it till later tonight . Sounds interesting.
Albert and the boys in higher physics have determined there are three "fundamentals" in our universe TIME SPACE MATTER
With that in mind I am intrigued those three are sorta' referred to in the very first sentence in our bibles
In the beginning (TIME)
God created the heavens (SPACE)
and the earth (MATTER)
Cool eh !!
Albert and the boys in higher physics have determined there are three "fundamentals" in our universe TIME SPACE MATTER
With that in mind I am intrigued those three are sorta' referred to in the very first sentence in our bibles
In the beginning (TIME)
God created the heavens (SPACE)
and the earth (MATTER)
Cool eh !!
Here's the way I explain it to people, when the universe was first expanding, say its the size of your living room, your standing in the center and you have an atomic clock in your hand. now you place another atomic clock in the place in your living room that is expanding, that will become the earth.
As the universe expands away from you and the clock you placed in it goes with the expansion, you watch your clock and at the six day point the clock that was place where the earth would be formed is billions of light years away and it has ticked off 15.75 billion years. The amazing fact is that when the math is done, the clock at the center of the universe has ticked off a bit more than six days. I don't think that's by chance. Standing where we are it looks like 15.75 billion years, standing at the point of expansion it looks like 6 - 24 hour days, believe it or not.
This relativity theory is no longer a theory, we know today that a clock in orbit around the earth ticks faster than one on the earth. This difference has to be compensated for to make GPS systems accurate. The more precise the clock the more accurate the GPS.
There is no evolution of species, this is simply an explanation of time. On the sixth day Adam was created "6000 years ago", but from Adams point of view the universe looked like 15 billion years old, the rocks, the fish and animals trees all had plenty of time to create a stable garden, everything looked and was old from where Adam stood. But from the center of the universe looking at us, it only took 6 days as we now measure days.
As the universe expands away from you and the clock you placed in it goes with the expansion, you watch your clock and at the six day point the clock that was place where the earth would be formed is billions of light years away and it has ticked off 15.75 billion years. The amazing fact is that when the math is done, the clock at the center of the universe has ticked off a bit more than six days. I don't think that's by chance. Standing where we are it looks like 15.75 billion years, standing at the point of expansion it looks like 6 - 24 hour days, believe it or not.
This relativity theory is no longer a theory, we know today that a clock in orbit around the earth ticks faster than one on the earth. This difference has to be compensated for to make GPS systems accurate. The more precise the clock the more accurate the GPS.
There is no evolution of species, this is simply an explanation of time. On the sixth day Adam was created "6000 years ago", but from Adams point of view the universe looked like 15 billion years old, the rocks, the fish and animals trees all had plenty of time to create a stable garden, everything looked and was old from where Adam stood. But from the center of the universe looking at us, it only took 6 days as we now measure days.
I bet the Sumerians were shocked when they saw the Lord Almighty create the Heavens and the Earth.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
when was that and over from where - was the water hot or cold or lukewarm - twinc
gravitational time dilation - got that - atomic clocks - got that - the six days were created for man sake for God's sake man and not for God's sake man -"for six thousand or millions of years shalt thou labour and then rest for a thousand or million years" is neither feasible,possible,reasonable or sensible but just plain daft and way out,weird and wacky - got that - twinc
SilenceInMotion said:
when was that and over from where - was the water hot or cold or lukewarm - twinc
Arnie Manitoba said:
gravitational time dilation - got that - atomic clocks - got that - the six days were created for man sake for God's sake man and not for God's sake man -"for six thousand or millions of years shalt thou labour and then rest for a thousand or million years" is neither feasible,possible,reasonable or sensible but just plain daft and way out,weird and wacky - got that - twinc
twinc ..... if you are saying God created over a 6 day period , I agree.
Our weeks and sabbath day rest are all based on 6 days of work and rest on the 7th day ... Just like God created for 6 and rested on 7th day.
On a personal basis I have always believed in a young earth and a 6 day creation
arnie
Our weeks and sabbath day rest are all based on 6 days of work and rest on the 7th day ... Just like God created for 6 and rested on 7th day.
On a personal basis I have always believed in a young earth and a 6 day creation
arnie
The mystery of that is how the earth once had a complete covering around it in the beginning. That's why there's fossil remains of tropical plant and animal life at the poles. Geologists now know that the rock erosion on the Sphinx was from water erosion, not desert wind and sand, showing that even the Saharah desert was once wet, lush and green. In Revelation God said there will be no more sea. So where's all the waters of the oceans on earth that make up the seas going to go? Back up into the sky to fill up all those holes. What kind of atmosphere around the earth would that create? A literal green house, the temperature even around the whole earth, no hot spots.twinc said:
101G
Well-Known Member
Millions of years ago ?, maybe even billions of years.
the problem, or rather the key to understanding God's creation is in the word "DAY". is it a 24 hr solar day?, absolutely NOT.
in order to get a 24hr. solar "day", there must be several things in place. #1 a Planet, which was created in the beginning. #2. this planet rotating. and last, #3. the sun shining, or emitting light. we have #1, and possible #2. but #3 fail totally. why?. because the sun was made on the forth "DAY". scripture, Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day".
looking at verse 14-19 several problems exist for the 24 hour "day". #1 in verse 14. God said let there be lights. NOT LIGHT, BUT LIGHTS. meaning more than one. so the lights in verse 14 is different from the LIGHT in verse 3 chapter 1, without the "s" at the end. God is the LIGHT. and the lights in verse 14 was to divide the day from the night, but these lights was created on the fourth day. so the 24hr. solar day is out. and these light(s) was made for signs and for seasons. and for "days" and "years". now there is the 24hr. "days". and verse 15 clearly tell of the now rotating earth. this is needed to have "day(s)", for the sun is now shining, or giving light upon the earth. and verse 18 clearly certify this rotation. and all of this was done on the fourth "DAY".
so clearly the 24hr, six day creation is not accurate. and this is by God word. also this can be supportive by Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens". revelation time. these, not "this" is the generation(s). there are three words to look at. there are GENERATION(s) in just ONE GOD "DAY". listen to the scripture, These (many) are the generations (many) of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (ONE DAY IN THESE GENERATIONS) that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. the evidence for more than a 6 day creation is in the scriptures themselves. the scriptures tells us that the earth and the heavens are more that 6,000 years old. and possible older in the million, even billions years. as we examine the scriptures closely, they tell us even more about God's creation.
Love and Peace
101G
the problem, or rather the key to understanding God's creation is in the word "DAY". is it a 24 hr solar day?, absolutely NOT.
in order to get a 24hr. solar "day", there must be several things in place. #1 a Planet, which was created in the beginning. #2. this planet rotating. and last, #3. the sun shining, or emitting light. we have #1, and possible #2. but #3 fail totally. why?. because the sun was made on the forth "DAY". scripture, Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day".
looking at verse 14-19 several problems exist for the 24 hour "day". #1 in verse 14. God said let there be lights. NOT LIGHT, BUT LIGHTS. meaning more than one. so the lights in verse 14 is different from the LIGHT in verse 3 chapter 1, without the "s" at the end. God is the LIGHT. and the lights in verse 14 was to divide the day from the night, but these lights was created on the fourth day. so the 24hr. solar day is out. and these light(s) was made for signs and for seasons. and for "days" and "years". now there is the 24hr. "days". and verse 15 clearly tell of the now rotating earth. this is needed to have "day(s)", for the sun is now shining, or giving light upon the earth. and verse 18 clearly certify this rotation. and all of this was done on the fourth "DAY".
so clearly the 24hr, six day creation is not accurate. and this is by God word. also this can be supportive by Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens". revelation time. these, not "this" is the generation(s). there are three words to look at. there are GENERATION(s) in just ONE GOD "DAY". listen to the scripture, These (many) are the generations (many) of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (ONE DAY IN THESE GENERATIONS) that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. the evidence for more than a 6 day creation is in the scriptures themselves. the scriptures tells us that the earth and the heavens are more that 6,000 years old. and possible older in the million, even billions years. as we examine the scriptures closely, they tell us even more about God's creation.
Love and Peace
101G
101G
Make note god first invented light ..... "let there be light"
Later he placed the sun and moon
"Light" can exist without the sun having to be there first.
As far as the "6 days" .... God himself said he created in 6 days .... and some of those days are specified as 24 hours (sun in place) ... so why should we think the first "days" are longer or different ??
Christians have some strange ideas sometimes ..... they will recognize that many things were created just by God "speaking them into existence" .... which sounds instantaneous ..... but in the next breath try to say God needed billions of years to do the early parts.
This only serves to appease the evolutionist ..... who do not usually believe in a creator in the first place.
Anyone know what sin God hates the most ???
It might surprise you
He hates it when mankind do not recognize his creation and Him as The Creator.
That is on the very the top of his sin list.
A step away from creation theory is a step toward God's most hated sin ... so lets be careful.
Make note god first invented light ..... "let there be light"
Later he placed the sun and moon
"Light" can exist without the sun having to be there first.
As far as the "6 days" .... God himself said he created in 6 days .... and some of those days are specified as 24 hours (sun in place) ... so why should we think the first "days" are longer or different ??
Christians have some strange ideas sometimes ..... they will recognize that many things were created just by God "speaking them into existence" .... which sounds instantaneous ..... but in the next breath try to say God needed billions of years to do the early parts.
This only serves to appease the evolutionist ..... who do not usually believe in a creator in the first place.
Anyone know what sin God hates the most ???
It might surprise you
He hates it when mankind do not recognize his creation and Him as The Creator.
That is on the very the top of his sin list.
A step away from creation theory is a step toward God's most hated sin ... so lets be careful.
15 billion years from our perspective; 6 days from GOD's pespective. But since he abides outside the domain of time, 6 days have no temporal meaning and must refer instead to creational 'epochs' which are not temporal in nature.Rex said:
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