Modern Day Tongue Speakers Roll Call Poll

[Stranger]

Don't you think it strange when Paul says forbid not to speak in tongues and yet by the way you are applying 1 Corinthians 14:28 to mean is that the person had to be speaking in tongues in the first place for any one to recognize there is no interpreter BEFORE they can tell him to be silent.

If tongues can be for private use as you say and it comes with no interpretation, who is Paul says for any one to silence the guy in the assembly? How come Paul doesn't say that when tongues comes with no interpretation, it is prayer time for the Holy Spirit?

Since Paul is not a hypocrite, you are not understanding 1 Corinthians 14:28 nor 1 Corinthians 14:2 & 4 either. You need Him to help you do so.



As I said, that is not the proper application to what I am saying at all, but if you want to be obtuse about it, so be it.



Missing the messages of 3 chapters for how you are applying those verses out of context.



Since tongues with interpretation is for the edification of the church for why prophesy is better, if it goes against written scripture, it is false.



And how does one know when tongues comes with no interpretation until it does in the assembly for how you are applying vs 28 to mean? Then they would have to be made to silence which goes back to my asking who is Paul to tell the Holy Spirit to be silent just because it comes with no interpretation? Therefore ergo... you are reading Paul's words wrongly, brother Stranger, but only Jesus can help you see the reasoning in that.

If the leaders of the church do not know if there is anyone in the church with the gift of interpretation, then they need to step down as leaders. These things are not done in a vacuum.

Paul doesn't say it is prayer time in the church. He says in (1 Cor. 14;28) that the one with the gift needs to keep silent.

I have no problem with prophecy being a better gift. So what? That doesn't mean tongues is not a gift. That doesn't mean the individual can't use the gift even though there is no interpreter. He just doesn't do it in church. Pretty simple really.

If there is none with the gift of interpretation, then there is none with the gift of interpretation. Doesn't means the gift of tongues can't be used by the individual.

And, you didn't answer my question. If one is a false interpreter of the gift of tongues, how do you know? You say you must have an interpreter. Well, one may be a false interpreter. What now? I know. Do away with the gift of interpretation....right?

Stranger

 

[BobRyan]

as for the "second blessing" idea

Nope. They did not. Tongue speakers often refer to Acts 19:1-7 as one of their proof texts for this, but they were disciples of John the Baptist's and not believers in Jesus Christ. That was why Paul had asked those questions in trying to figure out what kind of disciples they were. By knowing they were identified only by the water baptism of John the Baptist's, then Paul told them about Jesus Christ as the One John the Baptist was preaching about, and it was then they believed, got water baptized, and saved. So they had gotten that tongue when they were saved since they were saved along the way to someplace as a witness to others around them.

1. All of the Apostles were baptized only by John - none of them were baptized by Christ. They were in the same condition as those that Paul finds in Acts 19.
2. All of the 11 Apostles of Acts 1 - had been sent out in Mathew 10 with spiritual gifts - " 8 Healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers, casting out demons. Freely you received, freely give. '

3. Philip baptizes in Acts 8 - but to receive the "second blessing" he sent for Apostles.
Acts 8
5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them. 6 The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing. 7 For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed
..
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit

1 Cor 14 Paul speaking to already-baptized Christians says this
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

If the leaders of the church do not know if there is anyone in the church with the gift of interpretation, then they need to step down as leaders. These things are not done in a vacuum.

Since the Holy Spirit manifest the gifts and divides them severally as HE will, the only thing the leaders of the church can do is make sure everything is done in decency and order. 1 Corinthians 14:11

Paul doesn't say it is prayer time in the church. He says in (1 Cor. 14;28) that the one with the gift needs to keep silent.

When there is no interpreter as per how you are applying that verse, so again, if you believe tongues are for private use by which the Holy Spirit may use tongues for a prayer language, and for some oddball reason the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues that is not coming with interpretation, then how can Paul say for any one to be silent when you believe that the Holy Spirit can use tongues for uttering prayers?

I say that in context of 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 when you have this going on in church when you have 2 or 3 speak in tongues one by one while another interpret, some foreign visitor might just stand up and start speaking out of ignorance whereby the one being led by the Spirit to interpret is not interpreting. The phrase "let him speak to himself and to God" is referring to this man being a foreigner in speaking out of turn, and not speaking in God's gifts of tongues for why there is no interpretation and thus the real reason Paul is saying for him to be made silent. That was the way Paul and his people spoke back then about understanding how a man speaks.

So verse 2 is about God's gift of tongues where the tongue speaker does not know what he is saying, but God does for why I say because of verse 28, is NOT meaning that the person is speaking in God;s gift of tongues TO God.

As Paul used hyperbole in the love chapter 13 in exaggerating the actions of what he would do and yet not have love in proving what love is, so is Paul attempting poorly by comparison why prophesy is better than tongues in regards to edifying the church in the first 4 verses of that chapter 14. Paul was never meaning that tongue edifies the tongue speaker but showing a comparison in how prophesy edifies not only the church but the believer himself too, because Paul states in verse 2 that the person does not know what he is saying as he is speaking in mysteries. Paul goes on to explain that same tongue in verses 2 & 4 as needing interpretation for even himself as a tongue speaker to understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.

So it was a poor comparison by Paul in explaining why prophesy was better than tongues in verse 2 & 4 because if you are to believe all of Paul's words, then either Paul is lying in how you are taking tongues to be in 1 Corinthians 14:1-4 that it can edify himself or Paul is lying later on when he says he prays that someone will interpret that tongue so he can understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself. See?

And so to justify using tongues for private use, you are taking that poor example of why Paul was saying prophesy is better than tongues and reading in between the lines as if tongues sounds way better than prophesy and thus making Paul look like a liar about which is the better gift to seek after. We certainly see tongue speakers glorifying tongues for private use to be better than prophesy, are we not? Certainly not gained by the original baptism of the Holy Ghost at our salvation at the calling of the gospel but by some other phenomenon that happens later in the life of that believer.

I have no problem with prophecy being a better gift. So what? That doesn't mean tongues is not a gift. That doesn't mean the individual can't use the gift even though there is no interpreter. He just doesn't do it in church. Pretty simple really.

For all the supposed benefits for tongues in private use which Paul was never teaching that is what tongues do without interpretation, but somehow, tongue speakers read between the lines that this is so as if Paul is undermining his own exhortation for why prophesy is better than tongues in that entire chapter. It is what you are actually defending, regardless of you saying prophesy is the better gift. Tongues for private use is what you are glorifying here as being way better than prophesy can ever be.

If there is none with the gift of interpretation, then there is none with the gift of interpretation. Doesn't means the gift of tongues can't be used by the individual.

Again, you oppose yourself for why any one could say what you just said and what Paul said.. as if being allowed to speak to himself and to God as happening in the church service, but just speak in tongues "quietly" which is really unrealistic and disrespectful to those sitting next to them. So you are reading that verse 28 wrong.

And, you didn't answer my question. If one is a false interpreter of the gift of tongues, how do you know?

When that tongue has been identified as gained by that phenomenon that happened in the life of a believer separate from salvation.

Joyce Meyers took that moment to mean God was calling her into the ministry and she interprets tongues in this fashion; she gets a "feel" for what that tongue is saying and interprets it in that way. Nope.

It is no wonder why that one other church had thought they had the real God's gift of tongues coming with interpretation so much that they had thought they would get publicity for this even and hired a linguist to record all the tongues with interpretation only to find that the tongues were gibberish and thus the interpreters were winging it.

Any gifts as associated with that phenomenon where believers assumed that was the Holy Spirit coming over them as happening apart from salvation as in later in life as a saved believer, the Lord has helped me to discern that it is not of Him, regardless of how believers try to make it so that it was.

You say you must have an interpreter. Well, one may be a false interpreter. What now? I know. Do away with the gift of interpretation....right?

Stranger

Hopefully, I have explained my position with the Lord's help, but as it is, you need the Lord's help to be able to receive the discernment because you are not getting it.

I believe in God's gift of tongues to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people as that will come with interpretation in the assembly. If it does not come with interpretation, it is not God's gift of tongues, but a foreigner speaking out of turn; hence how can they know that? Because God's gift of tongues is supposed to come with interpretation, period.

For a believer to assume that tongues without interpretation means it is for private use, then they must be believing that God is the author of confusion, which He is not. 1 Corinthians 14:33

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

as for the "second blessing" idea

1. All of the Apostles were baptized only by John - none of them were baptized by Christ. They were in the same condition as those that Paul finds in Acts 19.

Please reread below.

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Certain means Paul came across people that were certainly disciples but did not know what kind.

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Because they did not know about the Holy Ghost, Paul then asked further to ascertain what kind of disciples they were.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

So that told Paul that they were disciples of John the Baptist's. That was why Paul told them about Whom John the Baptist was preparing the way for; hence Jesus Christ.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

That was when those certain disciples had believed in Jesus Christ to be water baptized in Jesus's name and had gotten saved afterwards.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.

Therefore they were not believers in Jesus Christ, but disciples of John the Baptist's as he did have disciples of his own. See below of 2 kinds of disciples.

Matthew 9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

So those disciples in Acts 19:1-7 started out as disciples of John the Baptist's that did not know that Jesus Christ was the One he was preaching about, but after Paul had told them, they believed, got water baptized in Jesus's name and got saved.

2. All of the 11 Apostles of Acts 1 - had been sent out in Mathew 10 with spiritual gifts - " 8 Healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers, casting out demons. Freely you received, freely give. '

The promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost of that born again of the Spirit moment would not come from the Father until Jesus had been crucified, resurrected, and ascended to Heaven to begin translating believers into His kingdom since He had to lead the way into Heaven for believers to be saved. John 3rd chapter and John 14:25-26

3. Philip baptizes in Acts 8 - but to receive the "second blessing" he sent for Apostles.

I pulled your scriptural reference out of quote so you can read it better. Look at the bold black underlined portion of below.

Acts 8
5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them. 6 The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing. 7 For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed
..
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit

That means they were only water baptized in His name, but they were not saved yet, because they were believing in the things about the kingdom of heaven and the name of Jesus, but they were more following Philip because of all the miracles that were happening by him, rather than seeing God working. After Peter & John had to come down because all eyes were on Philip and not on Jesus Christ, we can see how their hearts were not right with God by the way Simon was looking at Peter & John as if he could buy that power of giving people the Holy Ghost.

Afterwards, the Lord led Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch and when he had asked Philip for water baptism, we see Philip learning from his oversight with the Samaritans for looking at him rather than at Jesus in coming to and believing in Him, by the way Philip asked that eunuch if he'd believed with his whole heart in Jesus Christ before he got water baptized. So that is a clue as to what had happened before when Simon and the Samaritans got water baptized out of fanfare in following Philip around seeing him doing those miracles rather than the Lord Jesus Christ thru the Holy Spirit in Philip.

They were not born again until they had received the promise of the Spirit at their salvation.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

There is no second blessing because that would be the same as preaching another calling, another Jesus, and another Holy Spirit to receive which Paul warned against in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

There are more scripture against that second blessing here at this thread at the link below in this forum.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/are-you-spirit-filled-or-still-filling.26295/

1 Cor 14 Paul speaking to already-baptized Christians says this
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

But Paul did not say that these gifts will come by another baptism of the Holy Ghost when earlier he had testified to the one thing we are all suppose to share in saying in verse 13 below by which the gifts of the Spirit is not coming by a different event apart from our salvation.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is no other drink of the One Spirit. The other phenomenon is real but that is the apostasy that is calling many believers to fall away from the faith as prophesied in 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

That is why the apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them; 1 John 4:1 and by knowing Jesus Christ is in us by faith, we can know that any spirit coming over us apart from salvation is OBVIOUSLY not the real indwelling Holy Spirit promised at our salvation. 1 John 4:4-6

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah....praying in tongues...*flower emoji here*...that is all I need to say.
What a blessing I never knew about personally until July 2009.

In a crowd, secretly, to yourself, it is like circling the tip of your finger slowly in the palm of your lover...or touching your newborn's finger tips across your lips.

Your private, contained ecstasy.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

*Post just going off the survey, not reading any comments*

I believe that the gift of tongues does exist and it is a gift of the Spirit. It allows men to communicate the Gospel to people in that person's language so that they can understand it (like into Spanish for example). Not shouting random strange languages or rolling on the floor stuff.

 

[Helen]

...and round and round and round it goes....

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

...and round and round and round it goes....

.....when it stops is when the Bridegroom goes. Don't be identified as gone out to the market in getting your refills, sister.

 

[Helen]

.....when it stops is when the Bridegroom goes. Don't be identified as gone out to the market in getting your refills, sister.

I almost gave you a "like" for your humour.

But we shall see what we shall see....and some will see what they have spurned.

Bless you...Helen

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I almost gave you a "like" for your humour.

But we shall see what we shall see....and some will see what they have spurned.

Bless you...Helen

Can't spurned what you already had to begin with, sister. It is receiving something as if you had not received yet is why I see you at the market.

 

[Helen]

Can't spurned what you already had to begin with, sister. It is receiving something as if you had not received yet is why I see you at the market.

That okay...you are free to judge me however you feel....I am only concerned how God see me!

Bless you....Helen.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

That okay...you are free to judge me however you feel....I am only concerned how God see me!

Bless you....Helen.

Sister, I was correcting you by judging what you were doing in the hopes of Him leading you away from what you are doing to be ready for the Bridegroom when He comes. Since God has already given the judgment per the actions of the foolish virgins, I am hoping He will lead you to return to your first love as forever filled in the first place as promised at the calling of the gospel when you were saved.

 

[Helen]

Okay....

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Okay....View attachment 3661

That being said... tongues for private use is identified as gained by those who went out to the market by another filling of oil.

So to repent is to shun vain and profane babbling and pray normally; and of course, don't seek any more filling of the Holy Spirit when you are forever filled as promised since your salvation.

Sowing to the fruits of the Spirit as opposed to the works of the flesh is also still by faith in Jesus Christ to finish His work in you ( Philippians 1:6 ) as all the fruits of righteousness are by Jesus Christ ( Philippians 1:11 ) as our testimony as always filled since our salvation is testifying to our completeness in Christ ( Colossians 2:5-10 ) for why there are no more supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ).

 

[Helen]

Whatever you say....
......you seem to be very sure of all you have chosen to believe.

One day we will see on who's side the truth really is. ( and it isn't with you!! Of that I am 100% convinced )
Until then...' you in your small corner, and I in mine. '

Bless you.

 

[amadeus]

Whatever you say....
......you seem to be very sure of all you have chosen to believe.

One day we will see on who's side the truth really is. ( and it isn't with you!! Of that I am 100% convinced )
Until then...' you in your small corner, and I in mine. '

Bless you.

After a while it seems wasteful and tiresome to say another word. Some simply have to have the last word. It's like one of those games played here on another thread. To be last is really impossible from a human standpoint unless everyone else playing is already dead. The problem with this "game" [pardon the usage of that word here] is that each player is claiming unending Life:

"Jesus wept".

When will we stop building the tower of Babel and start building oneness in Him?
Help us dear Lord!

 

[Helen]

After a while it seems wasteful and tiresome to say another word. Some simply have to have the last word. It's like one of those games played here on another thread. To be last is really impossible from a human standpoint unless everyone playing is already dead. The problem with this "game" [pardon the usage of that word here] is that each player is claiming unending Life:

"Jesus wept".

When will we stop build the tower of Babel and start building oneness in Him?
Help us dear Lord!

Yes indeed, good word John.
I agree, I will stop responding now...
Haha! You hit it right when you said it is like the thread in the games area on here:- " Last one to post wins"...
Which actually is a nice friendly "chat" thread...and sometimes a very good friendly thread to retreat to and read when things get a bit "hot" in some of the threads.

I will heed you wise words in your post.

Bless you....Helen

 

[Miss Hepburn]

*Post just going off the survey, not reading any comments*
I believe that the gift of tongues does exist and it is a gift of the Spirit. It allows men to communicate the Gospel to people in that person's language so that they can understand it (like into Spanish for example). Not shouting random strange languages or rolling on the floor stuff.

Hi, With respect...this is a common thought of those that do not prayer in tongues.
Shouting, random, rolling are things I don't do personally. Also,
I personally have no idea what language i could be speaking , doesn't mean it isn't one.
Sometimes I think it sounds like an original Native American tongue. SO funny the sounds my mouth makes...sometimes I dunno, like the accents on a diff type of vowel...so foreign to me!!

What does impress me are the results of doing it (alone)...oh my, the stories I could tell...
No one mentioned to me praying in tongues had such power!
Oh my...

 

[Helen]

Hi, With respect...this is a common thought of those that do not prayer in tongues.
Shouting, random, rolling are things I don't do personally. Also,
I personally have no idea what language i could be speaking , doesn't mean it isn't one.
Sometimes I think it sounds like an original Native American tongue. SO funny the sounds my mouth makes...sometimes I dunno, like the accents on a diff type of vowel...so foreign to me!!

What does impress me are the results of doing it (alone)...oh my, the stories I could tell...
No one mentioned to me praying in tongues had such power!
Oh my...

AMEN!!!
What I like is that we get no glory for this...it is all God.
Once I was convinced that my prayer language had switched to Russian...or maybe have been Ukrainian. I have heard both.

We have no idea who we are interceding in pray for , at those times...we are just prayer channels for the Lord to use to pray for needs anywhere in the world. "Co-workers with Christ.."

Good post...thank you for that

 

[amadeus]

AMEN!!!
What I like is that we get no glory for this...it is all God.
Once I was convinced that my prayer language had switched to Russian...or maybe have been Ukrainian. I have heard both.

We have no idea who we are interceding in pray for , at those times...we are just prayer channels for the Lord to use to pray for needs anywhere in the world. "Co-workers with Christ.."

Good post...thank you for that

Amen! God works where He works for His reasons. Sometimes He lets us know the result and sometimes He does not.