More about : Cults

[Michiah-Imla]

No one will enter into Glory without being perfect, spotless in the eyes of God!

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:12-14)

Now it’s up to you wether or not you want to trample on your Savior and become defiled again…

In the eyes of world we Christians are found less than perfect

“…while they speak against you as evildoers they may be shamed, those falsely accusing your good behavior in Christ.” (1 Peter 3:16)

Let them not have occasion to ACCURATELY accuse your bad behavior in Christ!

we Christians are not judged on our performance

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men…” (2 Corinthians 5:10-11)

we are judged by faith in His performance!

Where did you get this clever line?

 

[Charlie24]

The Judgment Seat of Christ IS the great white throne Judgment!! There is no scriptural standing to separate them with vain word play.

Have you read this scripture?

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:” (John 5:22)

“…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27)



The entire Bible is for believers.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

How is it possible to discuss this with someone who can't see two judgments taking place in Rev. 20?

One is for the believers "on such the second death has no power" and the second, which is "whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life." The scripture says "this is the second death." These judgements are separated by 1000 years.

Have you not read Rom. 8:1?

" There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

For those who are "in Christ" there is no more condemnation for us, He took upon Himself all our penalties.

The real question here, is our faith in Him genuine, are we truly trusting in Him?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

How is it possible to discuss this with someone who can't see two judgments taking place in Rev. 20?

There aren’t two judgments.

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus …and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4)

Judgment was GIVEN unto the resurrected saints to do this:

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels?…” (1 Corinthians 6:3)

So there is ONE judgment for the dead who died before the Tribulation period:

Because:

“…the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:5)

Then:

“…I saw a great white throne…” (Revelation 20:11)

 

[Mantis]

I think the main defining trait of a cult is diminishing the divinity of Jesus. They deflect your attention away from Christ. For instance many cults will make their leader almost more important than Jesus. Or they will make a new deity more important than Jesus(ie: Mary). They make it so you have to go through a person or a saint or someone other than Jesus to get to God. Thats a cult.

I have been binge watching shows about cults lately. I think the most dangerous cult is the mormons. I watched three separate shows that all ended the same way. Some man claims he is the chosen prophet of God, the mormons follow this man, it leads to polygamy, sexual/physical abuse, pedophilia and eventually murder. It is almost like the demons have a playbook that they use over and over to destroy lives.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Have you not read Rom. 8:1?

" There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

And what do you suppose happens to those in Christ Jesus who walk after the flesh?

 

[Charlie24]

There aren’t two judgments.

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus …and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4)

Judgment was GIVEN unto the resurrected saints to do this:

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels?…” (1 Corinthians 6:3)

So there is ONE judgment for the dead who died before the Tribulation period:

Because:

“…the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:5)

Then:

“…I saw a great white throne…” (Revelation 20:11)

The "first resurrection" are in Christ! The "second death" has no power over them. The judgment of Hell does not apply to them.

1000 years later (20:7) all the unbelievers are resurrected from the grave, sea, and from Hell (20:13) and they are judged at the Great White Throne of Judgement.

There is no judgement of those in Christ taking place here. They are judged 1000 years before the GWTJ not for sin, but for their motivation and faithfulness in Christ. This judgement determines our rewards that Paul spoke of in 1Cor. 3:11-15.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The "first resurrection" are in Christ! The "second death" has no power over them. The judgment of Hell does not apply to them.

The ones who lived through the Tribulation and those who where beheaded in the tribulation, yes.

But the saints who died before the tribulation period remain asleep in the graves (1 Thessalonians 4:14). For:

“…the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:5)

1000 years later (20:7) all the unbelievers are resurrected from the grave, sea, and from Hell (20:13) and they are judged at the Great White Throne of Judgement.

Believers are included here (the ones who died before the Tribulation): because Jesus said:

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28-29)

Just like it says here:

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:13-15)

Some will be found written in the book of life (that’s why it’s opened at this judgment!)

 

[theefaith]

He said so. John 14:6

He omitted water, works, being good, loving the pope, taking communion, and anything else WE CAN DO.

See, Salvation is what HE DID.......not what we do.

how is He salvation before the sacrifice of the cross!

 

[theefaith]

I'm sorry to say to all my RCC friends, it is a works based religion trying to insert the work of Christ.

Grace and works does not and cannot mix!

Rom. 11:6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

The RCC will ignore Paul but will follow a misinterpretation of James on the Grace/works dispute.

it’s not a works based religion that’s works alone and it is condemned

We are members of Christ in his grace and filled with his spirit!

All our actions are meritorious baptized into Christ and his church! 1 cor 12:13 put on Christ! Gal 3:27

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1 Corinthians 12:26
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Religion is what man owes to God for having created him in His image and likeness!

To Christ for having redeemed him in His own blood!

to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy mother church!

it only Christ by His grace (merits of His blood passion and death) that we are enabled and empowered to actually be holy and righteous and all our actions

if we live by the spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh

my grace is sufficient for you

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

our participation is required

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, (his grace and virtues work in us healing our defective nature and enabling us to be righteous and holy accomplishing his holy will!
Ez 36:25-27



Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification)

 

[Charlie24]

And what do you suppose happens to those in Christ Jesus who walk after the flesh?

The Holy Spirit makes all the difference of who will walk after the Spirit and who will walk after the flesh.

If it be that you have surrendered to Christ in faith, you will receive the Holy Spirit. You will soon learn, as Paul did and told us, that we can't live this life of ourselves, we have to give it over to the Spirit to rid us of sin. This is walking in the Spirit.

If it be that you are struggling with sin, that is a sign that you are saved, "behold all things are become new" you are facing guilt of sin through the Spirit revealing it to you.

If it be that sin doesn't bother you, there is no guilt, then you are walking after the flesh, the Holy Spirit is not working in your life because He is not there to reveal the sin. You have a profession of faith but you are deceived.

 

[Pearl]

The born again, will never face God's Judgement for Sin in Eternity.
This is why all the born again, meet God as FATHER....daddy..."abba".

See, you are confused about Salvation, because you dont understand the Cross or the Blood Atonement.

You are teaching that this...... John 3:36,..... is waiting for the Born again.

The reality is, the born again are "one with God" and judgement is never going to find them after they die, as it has already been exected on their behalf, against Jesus on the Cross.

Its interesting that you know none of this..

I had asked you if you were a JW, or a Mormon.
Apparently you are Catholic, or something very related to the "cult of Mary".

Your posts are all spot on @Behold

 

[Charlie24]

The ones who lived through the Tribulation and those who where beheaded in the tribulation, yes.

But the saints who died before the tribulation period remain asleep in the graves (1 Thessalonians 4:14). For:

“…the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:5)



Believers are included here (the ones who died before the Tribulation): because Jesus said:

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28-29)

Just like it says here:

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:13-15)

Some will be found written in the book of life (that’s why it’s opened at this judgment!)

OK, follow me on this!

In Rev. 20:4 we see that judgement is given to the beheaded during the great tribulation and they reigned with Him for 1000 years.

In vs 5 we see that the rest lived not again until the 1000 years were expired.

How do I know that all the saved from the beginning of time are included with the beheaded in the great tribulation, who reign with Him 1000 years, and that the "rest that lived not again are only the unsaved?

This is how, 20:6

" Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

All those saved form the beginning of time will take part in the first resurrection "on such the second death has no power." They will reign with Christ for 1000 years. All of them are not effected by judgement of sin.

And we plainly see that the rest of the dead (all unsaved) lived not again UNTIL the 1000 years were expired. They are judged now and cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

All those saved form the beginning of time will take part in the first resurrection

No. Not the “rest of the dead” who died before the tribulation (saved and unsaved).

And we plainly see that the rest of the dead (all unsaved) lived not again UNTIL the 1000 years were expired

No.

Because Christ said:

“…all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28-29)

This is the judgment seat of Christ/great white throne.

 

[Charlie24]

it’s not a works based religion that’s works alone and it is condemned

We are members of Christ in his grace and filled with his spirit!

All our actions are meritorious baptized into Christ and his church! 1 cor 12:13 put on Christ! Gal 3:27

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1 Corinthians 12:26
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Religion is what man owes to God for having created him in His image and likeness!

To Christ for having redeemed him in His own blood!

to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy mother church!

it only Christ by His grace (merits of His blood passion and death) that we are enabled and empowered to actually be holy and righteous and all our actions

if we live by the spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh

my grace is sufficient for you

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

our participation is required

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, (his grace and virtues work in us healing our defective nature and enabling us to be righteous and holy accomplishing his holy will!
Ez 36:25-27



Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification)

The RCC has a list of things that must be done in order to inherit eternal life.

And even if these things are not met, the great and mighty Church can pray someone out of limbo and into eternal life.

What kind of garbage is that? They are mixing faith with works for salvation and what doe Paul say about that?

Rom. 11:6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Again I state the fact that the RCC is a work based religion that Paul said cancels out Grace!

 

[Charlie24]

No. Not the “rest of the dead” who died before the tribulation (saved and unsaved).



No.

Because Christ said:

“…all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28-29)

This is the judgment seat of Christ/great white throne.

Did Christ say at what times the graves would hear His voice? No !

There is a division of time here, 1000 years between the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation.

 

[theefaith]

The RCC has a list of things that must be done in order to inherit eternal life.

it’s a covenant not a Bible study
There are requirements


And even if these things are not met, the great and mighty Church can pray someone out of limbo and into eternal life.

Don’t know what this means

What kind of garbage is that? They are mixing faith with works for salvation and what doe Paul say about that?

Rom. 11:6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Not by works alone!

Again I state the fact that the RCC is a work based religion that Paul said cancels out Grace!

grace enables and empowers our works! My grace is sufficient for thee

Christian called to a life of suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Why not I know Thy faith?
Reward according to youre faith?

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There is a division of time here, 1000 years between the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation.

You are adding this to help your doctrine work.

When Christ comes after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29) he will take up his tribulation saints that we’re beheaded first (1 Thessalonians 4:16), then those that remain and are alive at the twinkling of the eye (1 Thessalonians 4:17). He will then destroy the beast and the false prophet (2 Thessalonians 2:8; Revelation 19:20). Then Satan gets bound for a thousand years (Revelation 20:2). Then the tribulation saints are given judgment on their thrones (Revelation 20:4) by which they judge angels (1 Corinthians 6:3). They reign with Christ a thousand years (Revelation 20:4). The rest of the dead (including saints) who died before the tribulation period will continue to sleep in the graves (1 Thessalonians 4:14; Revelation 20:5) until they hear Christ’s voice after the thousand year reign of Christ (John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:12)

 

[theefaith]

Does the 1000 yr kingdom end after a 1000 yrs?

 

[Enoch111]

salvation is by grace not “faith alone”!

Well actually here is how it really is and these are the Five Solas:

GRACE ALONE
FAITH ALONE
CHRIST ALONE
SCRIPTURE ALONE
GLORY TO GOD ALONE

This rejects Sacramentalism which is the bedrock of the Catholic Church.

 

[theefaith]

Well actually here is how it really is and these are the Five Solas:

GRACE ALONE
FAITH ALONE
CHRIST ALONE
SCRIPTURE ALONE
GLORY TO GOD ALONE

This rejects Sacramentalism which is the bedrock of the Catholic Church.

if you reject the church and the sacraments you are rejecting Christ who founded the church and instituted the sacraments for the salvation of men!

Protestantism is unbiblical!

Faith alone! That means faith alone! Period!
No sacraments ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21
No obedience of faith rom 16:26
No repentance Lk 3:3
No suffering Mk 8:34 Mk 10:21 Phil 1:29
No hope rom 8:24
No charity 1 cor 13:2 1 cor 13:13
No love of God duet. 6:5
Prayer matt 7:7
No grace Jn 1:16-17
No patience Heb 10:36
No nothing but faith alone!
Alone means alone!

Rom 8: 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13

And never “faith alone”!

Rev. 2 I know thy works! I thought faith alone is all that mattered?

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

How can salvation be by faith alone in Christ alone thru grace alone?

Faith alone?

1 cor 13:2 and 13:13, Phil 1:29, James 2:24 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 oppose faith alone!

1 cor 13:2 “all faith” without charity avails nothing, nada!

“Faith alone” is heresy!
Hersey is treason against God!



Christ alone?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!

Grace alone?

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism!
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 the promise of the father, sacred oath is a sacrament!

Not grace alone but, grace thru baptism of water and the spirit, and a new heart full of love of God!

Matt 5:7 merciful receive mercy
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven

Acts 22:15 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Jn 3:5 and Titus 3:5 born again refers to baptismal regeneration

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


Paul never taught justification by “faith alone”!

Did not Paul write these scriptures?

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13:13

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Other scriptures opposing “faith alone”

Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven


Bible alone?

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church. And be witnesses for Christ. Acts 1:8

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority


Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?