MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

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Stumpmaster

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IMO, in order to gain more insight into buying and selling, maybe one should determine that in light of Revelation 18, for instance? That ch appears to be involving buying and selling. But in what sense though, I'm not entirely certain. Actually Revelation 13-14, 17-19 have a number of things in common.

Revelation 18:9 ¶And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:


This would be involving the aftermath of judgment. Revelation 13 is not involving the aftermath of anything. It is involving the era of time prior to judgment. The above passage echoes Revelation 14:11---And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever---where that is then echoed in Revelation 19:2-3---for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Take note that Revelation 14:11 involves torment as does Revelation 18:10. Yet some would have us believe that Revelation 14:11 = Revelation 20:11-15. Good luck getting Revelation 18:10, Revelation 19:2-3 logically fitting the scene in Revelation 20:11-15 somehow.

On a side note, Premil has to be the correct view since Rev 14:11 can't be meaning the GWTJ since the GWTJ is after the millennium and that Rev 18-19 is meaning before the millennium, otherwise, you would think Rev 14:11 indeed equals Rev 20:11-15. Except it can't because both Rev 18:10, Rev 19:2-3 already prove it can't.
You want insight @Davidpt . I hope you can handle it , lol :waves:

# The beast metaphor pertains to imperial satanic oppression which manifests climactically in the destruction of Babylon.
# The mark of the beast replaces every other method of imperial commerce.
# Commodities are deemed to be the property of the imperial satanic administration, hence the strict enforcement surrounding their acquisition.
 
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ewq1938

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If their understanding is already darkened, then the mark is not the cause of them being lost.

Of course. It comes after any worshipping and is economically related.


The "sword" in Revelation is the Word of God ... it is a two-edged sword because it brings life to believers and death to unbelievers.

He should swing the sword in church more often.
 

IndianaRob

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In Rev every occurrence of 'mark' & 'beast' together the Greek word for 'mark' is charagma

View attachment 88108
For people in the MOTB time, unless there is a mark that can be seen with their eyes on the head or hand of the person how will they now whether that person has the MOTB ?
We see that differently. I see the MOB as ongoing but you see it as future.
 

IndianaRob

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I believe BOTH spiritual and physical

In Deuteronomy which you quoted, God commanded a physical mark/binding that represented the spiritual Way to think & act.

In Revelation we have the same = a physical mark that represents Satans kingdom on earth = "for a short time"

God's words/Holy Scriptures do "mesh perfectly together"

SHOCKER = there are contradictions in the Scriptures = God intended ones for us to solve!!!
There are no contradictions in scripture. What you call a contradiction is where the deepest secrets in the Bible are hidden.
 
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David in NJ

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David in NJ

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You are still avoiding the question ... the fact is that someone could be physically forced to take a literal mark in a totalitarian regime. And at a personal level, a father could physically coerce his wife and children to comply. In that case, is the marked person lost?
Good and Valid questions
 

David in NJ

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Most of the symbols used in Revelation are drawn from literal events/objects in the OT.
Do you know what lampstands in Rev 1:12 means?
Do you accept ALL these facts from Revelation???
a.) Literal
b.) Symbolic
c.) Physical
d.) Spiritual
e.) Prophetic
 

Scott Downey

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It very well could be a physical visible mark. The devil is earthly, of the flesh

James 3 describes devilish wisdom, 15 Such wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Having the devil's mark is inclusive, showing you belong to them
Not having it shows your an outsider, not part of that group.
People are all about badges, clubs, belonging, labels.