Muslim Friendly Bibles?

[THE Gypsy]

...But now there is a major controversy developing as the latest altered Bibles are being created by organizations that most would think of as being more conservative and reasonable. At the forefront of the controversy are the Wycliffe Bible Translators, the Summer Institute of Linguistics and Frontiers, all of which are producing Bible translations that remove or modify terms which they have deemed offensive to Muslims.

That’s right: Muslim-friendly Bibles.

Included in the controversial development is the removal of any references to God as “Father,” to Jesus as the “Son” or “the Son of God.” One example of such a change can be seen in an Arabic version of the Gospel of Matthew produced and promoted by Frontiers and SIL. It changes Matthew 28:19 from this:

“baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”
to this:

“cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiah and his Holy Spirit.”

A large number of such Muslim-sensitive translations already are published and well-circulated in several Muslim-majority nations such as Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia.

http://www.wnd.com/2...-as-son-of-god/


My first, knee-jerk reaction was...How dare they! Wycliffe?!?! Muslim friendly?!?!?!

Then I gave it some thought...There are many cultures worldwide and many terms for "God". The phrase “cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiah and his Holy Spirit.” is still very clear on the different parts of the divine nature.

Does the rephrasing diminish the impact or does it broaden the ability to reach other people/cultures? I know several people that don't necessarily use the term "God". One even calls Him the "Planet Maker"...Can't argue with that one.

 

[Lively Stone]

All I can say is, "Yikes!" Allah is not the name of our God. This bible is a major compromise as well as a perversion.

 

[THE Gypsy]

All I can say is, "Yikes!" Allah is not the name of our God. This bible is a major compromise as well as a perversion.

Well...Technically speaking..."God" is not the name either...It's the English translation of it.

Are you saying the scriptures should only be taught in English and from a "colonial" perspective?

 

[Lively Stone]

Well...Technically speaking..."God" is not the name either...It's the English translation of it.

Are you saying the scriptures should only be taught in English and from a "colonial" perspective?

I'm saying that Allah is the name of the moon god that Muslims are really worshiping. There is no need in re-working and customizing a bible for them. The truth is available in scriptures translated in all languages, without changing the name of God. He goes by many names. They could have picked one of those.

Now, at the same time, my missionary friends to Guinea, West Africa tell me that when a Muslim comes to Jesus Christ, he doesn't abandon the word 'Allah' for God, as it generally depicts 'God'. However, former Muslims here who have become believers do abandon the term.

 

[THE Gypsy]

I'm saying that Allah is the name of the moon god that Muslims are really worshiping. There is no need in re-working and customizing a bible for them. The truth is available in scriptures translated in all languages, without changing the name of God. He goes by many names. They could have picked one of those.

"Allah" came from the Arabic word "elah" which means "god" or "something that is worshipped".

http://islamtomorrow.com/allah.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

http://www.newadvent...then/01316a.htm


You might want to branch out a little in your studies.

However, former Muslims here who have become believers do abandon the term.

They are the exception to the rule.

By the way...Since you're unfamiliar with Islam...Here's a verse from the Quran...

"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."

[Noble Quran 41:37]

Also...Here's a little more info on how that "moon god" myth got started and how Christians, that are unfamiliar with Islam and are too lazy to do research, ran with it...

http://www.islamic-a...ah/moongod.html

 

[Lively Stone]

The history of Allah is the ancient moon god. Even Muslims themselves are mostly unaware of it. Living in a city which as a large Muslim population, I make sure I am aware of what these people believe. Don't be so quick to consider others unfamiliar.

As I said before, Allah is not the name fo our Jehovah, God. But is is puzzling, even to Christian missionaries working in Muslim countries that converts to Christ continue to use the name, 'Allah' to denote the word 'god' in general, and they follow suit in calling Jehovah God 'Allah' as well.

 

[THE Gypsy]

The history of Allah is the ancient moon god. Even Muslims themselves are mostly unaware of it.

You, like many others, are incorrect. Both Islamic and Western scholars have rejected that claim.

Like I said...Do some research.

Living in a city which as a large Muslim population, I make sure I am aware of what these people believe.

You may well "live in a city which has a large Muslim population". That is not where knowledge comes from and does not make you correct in what you believe. That's like Donald Trump saying "I know how to raise corn because there's a farm down the road from me."

. Don't be so quick to consider others unfamiliar.

Just stating the obvious.

 

[Lively Stone]

You, like many others, are incorrect. Both Islamic and Western scholars have rejected that claim.

Like I said...Do some research.



You may well "live in a city which has a large Muslim population". That is not where knowledge comes from and does not make you correct in what you believe. That's like Donald Trump saying "I know how to raise corn because there's a farm down the road from me."



Just stating the obvious.

I have done my reasearch, thanks! Muslim 'scholars' do reject the claim about the moon god origins, but that doesn't mean much.

 

[PropphecyStudent]

...
“baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”
to this:

“cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiah and his Holy Spirit.”
...

Hi THE Gypsy,

This is a newsworthy Topic which I'm glad to brought to this Forum. It seems there are four components to this issues, which I might hold the following opinions:

1. Baptise / water -- Baptising is not a cleansing. It's a convention according the the ministry of John the Baptist where we symbolically are changed from the sin nature to the spirit nature. As such, would strongly object to any departing from this direct association.

2. Allah -- I don't know various language conventions which might distinguish between the Muslim "god" reference, and any other "god", for any given culture. And it may be strongly dependent upon each language to define whether "Allah" is an association between the Musllim faith, or whether it is more generic. As such I would probably give Wycliffe the benefit of the doubt, -- however, item #1 seems to reflect poorly on their judgement.

3. The name of the Father / Allah -- I have the same concern as addressed in item #2.

4. the Son / his Messiah -- There are many messiah's, however, there is only one Son. As such this would seem an unacceptable departure from the tenants of faith, which I would strongly object to.


Thank you again THE Gypsy for sharing this information, and thank you Lively Stone for sharing information which I was equally unaware of.


PropphecyStudent

 

[Prentis]

The danger comes when we remove the offense of the cross. I cannot tell whether it is the case her or not, since I haven't looked into it.

Man must die, along with his ways, if he is to live God. If we appease people in such a way that it takes away this message, we deny the way of Christ. On the other hand if all we are doing is making it more culturally accessible, while the message remains true, and the offense (to the old man) is not taken away, I have nothing against it.

I prefer for myself to have something that is closest to the original text, because I hope to receive the truth without error. But I also see the good in a translation like 'The Living Way' for those far removed. This could be similar... or not...

 

[Lively Stone]

If the most hardened Satanist can find salvation in the reading of the living word, then so can the most devout Muslim. Nothing needs to be changed to suit anyone. It is GOD'S Word, and only He knows how to reach people by His powerful word. It is God-breathed, alive and most powerful. Changing the word to suit any group of people, even with what we think are good intentions, is down to a lack of trust in God to cause His word to be sent forth to do its work.


Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

 

[Prentis]

If the most hardened Satanist can find salvation in the reading of the living word, then so can the most devout Muslim. Nothing needs to be changed to suit anyone. It is GOD'S Word, and only He knows how to reach people by His powerful word. It is God-breathed, alive and most powerful. Changing the word to suit any group of people, even with what we think are good intentions, is down to a lack of trust in God to cause His word to be sent forth to do its work.


Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

I understand what you're saying, and agree that the meaning should never be changed. What I am saying is that I can understand the vocabulary being adapted to make it understood by those of a different culture.

Ever heard the story of 'Bruchko', Bruce Olson? The man was sent by God to South America, and he reached one of the far out tribes. They knew nothing of modern civilizations. It took him years just to get to a point where he could speak with them and testify to them... But once he got there, he realized that many parables and things said in the Bible where meaningless to them. Take the parable of the field and the treasure: they don't own fields, and a treasure is actually meaningless to them.

That's all I'm saying! Maybe you are right, and this translation takes away from the meaning, in which case it is wrong. But if we make the meaning accessible to them, then we are including them, giving them a way to understand the message.

 

[Lively Stone]

Muslims live in this culture and in this present civilization. They are not remote or removed by any sort of distance from the world. The bible is for them just the way it is written.

It is apparent, however, that by virtue of the working of Islam, it is highly unlikely that many Muslims would even open a bible, which is why we are seeing a surge of Muslims coming to Christ in record numbers right now! It isn't because of anyone adapting the word of God for them, but it is because Holy Spirit is calling them to the Lord by His mighty power. The amazing way He is reaching these people is by visions--personal revelations of Jesus Christ and the cross! Millions have come to Christ in African Muslim countries and tens of thousands of Iraqis and Afghanistanis since the beginning of the trouble there back in the 90's. It isn't openly reported, but those who know God there are reporting these statistics.

For more, please read:
http://www.liveleak....=133_1208031058


http://youtu.be/NvvClFSMIzA

 

[prism]

Sura 112:2 Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
3 He begets not nor was begotten.

To exchange the name of God for Allah would be self defeating. For the Muslim, Allah has no son. For us God gave His only unique Son. There is no middle ground and to compromise on this point runs the danger of preaching a different Gospel via a different god/God.
I have some heated things to say, not against the Muslims (they are lost in their current state), but against this over the top 'lest we offend' baloney of Wycliff (if it is true) and other Christian groups that are capitulating; but instaed I will let God be the Judge.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:8-9)

Remember, a different god also equates as a different gospel as well.

 

[justaname]

Shall we change the name to Shiva for Hinduism? How about Buddha for our Buddhists. I know, we can just change it to Baal, or maybe Moloch for our pagan friends. Wait better yet why not just leave it looking like this "cleanse them in the name of ___________, ____________, and ___________. That way if you want to do it in the name of Larry, Moe, and Curly you can just do that.

As you can see this frustrates me. :mellow:

I have met many Muslims, and have had personal relationships with them. To say Allah is a general term for God is the same as saying Jesus Christ is a general term for God. If the above post offends anyone, I am truly sorry. I just see this as another way to water down the gospel, which is unacceptable. Changing the text to say something different is an abomination, and should be viewed that way.

 

[brightmorningstar]

As Islam believes that the Bible is corrupted, what is the thinking behind modifying something corrupted to make it sound nicer?
The truth is what sets people free.
Islam believes Jesus Christ is not the risen Son of God, the way the truth and the life. To believe the Muslim needs to come to believe. The Bible is the word of God.

 

[prism]

As Islam believes that the Bible is corrupted, what is the thinking behind modifying something corrupted to make it sound nicer?

Excellent point! I hardly think the Muslims would dream of changing parts of the Koran to appease the other side.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Exactly prism.



Can I add..
So in that case what is behind this idea is the same one that caused Islam?
Jesus is revealing Himself to many Muslims in dreams at the moment. I also know ex-Muslims who have read the Bible for the first time and realised it is God and the Quran isn't. The truth will set people free, not a diluted version of it.