(Amy;19265)
Here is the reference from quran and you may like to check whatever version of Al-Madina (5):13 ....The only thing it dose not say is, which parts was changed, altered or corrupted.
I do have to disagree with you, Amy.I used to believe for quite some time that the Qur'an actually says that the Bible has been corrupted. However, after much careful study, I fail to see it. Before I go on, let's see a post by Amy near the beginning of this thread (#5):
Muslims should note that nowhere in the Qur'an there is even a suggestion that the Christian Biblical text has been altered or corrupted. The word "tahrif" is never used with reference to the Christian Gospels (Injil). The Qur'an occasionally accuses the Jews of altering their Scripture (like in Sura 5:13); but it never levels this accusation at Christians. It in no way implies that the text of the Gospel of Jesus (Injil) has been corrupted. In fact, the Qur'an attests to the validity of the Christian Gospels, Zabur (Psalms) and the Torah.
So, assuming that you still agree with it, it means that only the Jewish scriptures is in contention here. With that, let's take a closer look at 5:13 (btw, the surah name is al-Maidah, not al-Madinah) in context, using the popular Muslim translation of Yusuf Ali:5:12 God did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And God said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to God a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."5:13 But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them - barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind.5:14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what it is they have done.We see that the Jews have been cursed because they have breached the covenant, and also they "changed the words from their (right) places" and "forget a good part of the message that was sent them".Forgetting part is easy to understand, as it has nothing to do with the underlying text. But, what does "change the words from their places" mean? Does it mean the actual text has been corrupted?For that, let's go down some verses in the same surah to 5:41:O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews, - men who will listen to any lie, - will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.Admittedly, the verse is a bit convoluted, but it says that the Jews were actually doing something to the Qur'an: "They change the words from their (right) times and places"!Now, no Muslim in their right mind actually believe that Jews have corrupted the Qur'an. For if the Jews did corrupt the text, then the Jews also did corrupt the text of the Qur'an. Not good for the Muslim.So, what does it mean really? Early Muslim scholars tell us that it has to do with interpretations of the text, where the Jews conceal, forget, twist the meaning. For example, ibn Abbas, ibn Kathir, at-Tabari, etc, all interpret it as referring to changing the meaning (as they were read), and not to the text itself.On the other hand, the Qur'an often refers to the previous scriptures that were in the hands of the Jews and the Christian, and doesn't point out that these were corrupted. In fact, we were told to judge by it. For example, two verses after the text concerning what the Jews did to the Qur'an, it says:But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them? - therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.This verse is important because the Jews were asked why they came to Muhammad for decisions when they already have the law (Torah)? Why, it would be a perfect place to say that they should follow Muhammad because it was corrupted. Instead, Muhammad affirmed that it was a plain command from God!Evidently, the Muslim is in a catch-22 situation. If the Bible is corrupted, then why does the Qur'an tells the Jews and Christians to judge by it and doesn't say which parts were corrupted)? And if the Bible is not corrupted, why does the Qur'an not agree with the "previous scriptures"?For the Qur'an translations, try
http://quranbrowser.com. It has 10 different translations.[Sorry, had to make it as concise as possible as this thing keeps timing me out when I tried to reply. 8-)]
ves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13. Ok Mr Muslim I can understand that but which parts of the OT are regarded as un -corrupted and where is this written?
ami)
