My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

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Helen

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Helen I have answered your questions I think now. If I missed some let me know.

So David, are you here on this Site to win people , or to challenge everyone?
You did say in one posts earlier today that you are not supposed to mix with those who don't believe the same as you ( that is paraphrased as I can't remember how you said it ....to Amadeus I think. ) That's why I asked you why you are here on this site, if you believe that we are all wrong and therefore ( I am guessing..) destine to hell.

Sorry I forget now what you said or where!! lol
 

Jane_Doe22

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Going from highlighted point to point here, trying to keep this response pithy. If you want me to elaborate on any point or feel that I missed one that you were trying to highlight, please ask.

We believe the accounts of Jesus’ life and ministry recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament to be historical and truthful. For us the Jesus of history is indeed the Christ of faith. While we do not believe the Bible to be inerrant, complete or the final word of God, we accept the essential details of the Gospels and more particularly the divine witness of those men who walked and talked with Him or were mentored by His chosen apostles.

I worship God. Not the Bible. The Bible is indeed the words of God and extremely precious to me. But I don't worship it, nor do I believe God's wonders/words are confined to just its pages. For example, I feel the Holy Spirit of God speak quite strongly to me directly, leading me and guiding me.

They deny God is immutable, impassible and seems to even deny timeless. They alsso deny the Trinity as taught in the Bible.

LDS Christians don’t have any disagreement with the Bible, however there is disagreement with the Athanasian Creed and its’ philosophical statements. Here's quick run down:

LDS Christians and Athanasian Christians (aka Christians that believe the Athanasian Creed) both believe--
Every single word about Christ in the Bible.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ is 100% divine.
The Father is 100% divine.
The Holy Spirit is 100% divine.
The Father, Son, and Spirit are all without beginning nor end.
The Father is not the Son, nor vice verse. Christ doesn’t pray to Himself. Neither of them are the Spirit. They are 3 different persons.
The Father, Son, and Spirit together are 1 God (are monotheists).
Christ was/is the great I Am, the Only Begotten Son of God.
Christ was one with the Father before the Earth was created. He then created the Earth, was born of a virgin, lived a mortal life with lots of suffering, took the world’s sins upon Himself, died on a cross, rose again on the 3rdday, later rose to heaven, and is coming back again.


The difference comes in:
LDS Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through unity.
Athanasian Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through consubstantiation (Consubstantiality - Wikipedia).


What difference does this make in the day to day:
Not much. Realistically, a lot of people sitting in Trinitarians pews have never even heard of the Athanasian Creed. This is a level of deeper theology which doesn’t really affect day-to-day. As I said earlier, find the Calvinsit-Arminain differences to be much larger and more much much more impactful that this or any other differences on this subject.
 

reformed1689

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So David, are you here on this Site to win people , or to challenge everyone?
You did say in one posts earlier today that you are not supposed to mix with those who don't believe the same as you ( that is paraphrased as I can't remember how you said it ....to Amadeus I think. ) That's why I asked you why you are here on the site if you think we are all wrong and therefore ( I am guessing..) destine to hell.

Sorry I forget now what you said or where!! lol
Helen,

A few things.

1. I am here to present truth. I do not challenege everyone. I challenge when I see something that is grossly unbiblical. That happens here a lot. Ultimately we cannot win anyone. That is not our role. We present truth.
2. As far as the separation, that was in response to a specific question about dogmatics. I am in no way saying that we act as if someone doesn't exist just because they are wrong in their theology.
3. I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that if you do not agree with me 100% you are destined to Hell.

Are there some people on this forum I believe are currently not saved? YES, because their beliefs demonstrate they do not believe the actual Gospel.
 

Helen

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Helen,

A few things.

1. I am here to present truth. I do not challenege everyone. I challenge when I see something that is grossly unbiblical. That happens here a lot. Ultimately we cannot win anyone. That is not our role. We present truth.
2. As far as the separation, that was in response to a specific question about dogmatics. I am in no way saying that we act as if someone doesn't exist just because they are wrong in their theology.
3. I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that if you do not agree with me 100% you are destined to Hell.

Are there some people on this forum I believe are currently not saved? YES, because their beliefs demonstrate they do not believe the actual Gospel.

Thanks David. That is your clearest answer to a question...

And I totally agree, there are for sure unbelievers on this Site ...and a few that are posting some very very strange stuff. "Strange Fire".
 

Preacher4Truth

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Promised verses about Christ always have/is/will be. All quotes are from sources LDS Christians consider to be scripture, and links are clickable if you want to see context.


God, Eternal Nature of

  • eternal God is thy refuge, Deut. 33:27.
  • from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God, Ps. 90:2.
  • established of old: thou art from everlasting, Ps. 93:2.
  • thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end, Ps. 102:27.
  • Lord shall reign for ever, even thy God, Ps. 146:10.
  • lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, Isa. 57:15.
  • thy name is from everlasting, Isa. 63:16.
  • I am the Lord, I change not, Mal. 3:6.
  • I am endless, D&C 19:10.
  • God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, D&C 20:17.
  • Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, D&C 38:1.
  • From eternity to eternity he is the same, D&C 76:4.
  • Eternal God of all other gods, D&C 121:32.
  • Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end, Moses 1:3.
  • Endless and Eternal is my name, Moses 7:35.
Quite vague the above.

LDS are not Christians. This is something you incessantly attempt to prove but it is not true. Different Christ, John 8:24, different "gospel" Galatians 1:8-10.

LDS say Christ is created, and was created by a physical union of intercourse between "Heavanly Father" and Mary. That's a fact, yet you deny this being the official teaching if your sect.

This is fabrication and a lie and is not the Christ of Scripture who is in fact YHWH and therefore an eternal person who has existed forever, and there are no other Gods besides him, Isaiah 43:10. LDS says he is created and Satan's brother, these are your Mormon beliefs that you deny as being Mormon teachings, yet, these are all official teachings.

Your above references are willfully misleading and vague. They are meant to sound Christian and "affirming" to the non-discerning and easily deceived.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Quite vague the above.

LDS are not Christians. This is something you incessantly attempt to prove but it is not true. Different Christ, John 8:24, different "gospel" Galatians 1:8-10.

LDS say Christ is created, and was created by a physical union of intercourse between "Heavanly Father" and Mary. That's a fact, yet you deny this being the official teaching if your sect.

This is fabrication and a lie and is not the Christ of Scripture who is in fact YHWH and therefore an eternal person who has existed forever, and there are no other Gods besides him, Isaiah 43:10. LDS says he is created and Satan's brother, these are your Mormon beliefs that you deny as being Mormon teachings, yet, these are all official teachings.

Your above references are willfully misleading and vague. They are meant to sound Christian to the non-discerning and easily deceived.
Once again: stop the unnecessary flaming.

Preacher, I quoted actual official sources LDS Christians consider scripture, including the Bible. The words of God are not "vague", nor is is not a "disguise" or "lie". I'm lazy and literally copying and pasting from scriptures and topical sources LDS Christians actually use for study.

The "official" sources you're referring are a few quotes taken out of a complication called the "Journal of Discourses". LDS Christians don't remotely consider this volume to be scripture, it's not read in that way (f at all), and there are some problems with it. Then, from this non-scriptural-non-authartive volume, the quotes are taken out of context, have stuff added, spun to give different meaning, etc.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Helen,

Hello Helen,
Thank you for the excellent questions. I cannot speak for all calvinists, but i will give an answer to you that can be helpful.
Question.
Ive been talk to a Calvinist who says the If God has chosen a person to be he's saved, but if He hasn't chosen a person to be saved, Then he isn't.

My question is , to you or @Preacher4Truth here.
How do
you ( Calvinists ) share the Gospel and find out IF a person is destined to be one of the saved ones.[/QUOTE]

1]God has revealed His eternal purpose to the Church, Eph 3;9-11
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Now here is what many do not understand or take the time to "see" Helen.
God has explained that He has elected a multitude of sinners, that Jesus is going to seek and to save....EZk.34, luke 19,

The thing is He has not told us who they are! So we are told to go into all the world and preach to all men everywhere. We know all men are sinners, so we can faithfully proclaim that :
The Lord Jesus Christ has come to save a multitude of sinners.
The Father has given a multitude of sinners to the Son.
At a point in time each and everyone given to the Son, will come to Jesus, not one will be lost.
Jn6;37-44, John10:26-30
watch;
37 All that the Father giveth me
shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

So we preach a full gospel that Jesus saves a multitude of sinners that he died a Covenant death, and each and everyone who comes will be saved from sin and co-heirs with Christ by new birth.

jn10:

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life;
and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.


If God has chosen someone here to be saved ( to be a Calvinist) why don't you guys seem to try and get them to se the truth...why only tell people that they are not chosen to be saved? How do you know?

Again, we know God has elected a multitude, but we do not know who...look here in Acts 18;
Watch how God explains this very thing to Paul;


5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.


11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

Helen notice in verse 10, The Lord explains to Paul...For I have much people in this city...notice he does not say, all may believe. He says clearly I have MUCH people in this city.[not all]
Jesus knew exactly who and how many would be saved by the preaching and teaching, but not all.

He did not tell Paul who, or how many would be saved...do you see it?
God had elect sheep who were still children of wrath by nature, but as Paul preached the truth, The Spirit would draw them savingly to Jesus.
We pray and go forth in like manner presenting the truth of Christ to all persons.
No gimmicks, no tricks, no gospel clowns,and rock music.
No..the word preached and taught accompanied by the ministry of the Spirit of God.


This is not a 'tongue in cheek 'question but a genuine question. I don't know how you believe about that.

I personally look to obey Jesus. I pray for opportunities to obey Jesus every day and with every person that comes in contact with me. You think we are being harsh with Jane Doe22, or others, but that is not so. We desire for her and everyone on here to believe the true gospel of the true and living God.
Helen, if a person is believing in a false god, the FALSE god has to die, before the true God can be discussed or worshipped in Spirit and truth,do you agree? consider psalm 115;


Using Jone Doe for instance, how would you know whether she is destined to chosen to become a Calvinist , say in a year or so?

We do not know, so we continue to interact with her. I am hopeful for her, in that she leans away from the core LDS teaching a bit, but is still in it's clutches.

We are working toward her salvation or her damnation;
2cor2: very sobering words-
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.


I see Calvinists tell people how wrong they are , I can't remember seeing any of you ever trying to turn us from error, to what you believe to be correct belief.
So how do you share your truth with others?

Let me say it this way....
Helen we live in a day where many churches have departed from sound doctrine.
When we see it, the reaction is like Paul in acts 17;
16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens
, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

Your post and your good questions are what is necessary to promote solid biblical interaction. As a group, we come across as hard, or short with people because often, people just launch into an all-out attack, without interacting first.
They present a twisted caricature of the teaching and profane the truth of God.
you are taking the time to ask solid questions.
I will answer any and all such questions as we are to be faithful to the scriptures.
I hope this is somewhat helpful. If I am not clear or you have follow up questions, by all means, ask anything you want. The truth delights to be investigated.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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No. Such is one of the many false things said about LDS Christians.

Christ has always existed. If you want, I can get paste a bunch of verses saying that when I get to my computer.

Jane,
Hopefully, you do not believe everything taught by that church.
I have spoken with Mormons face to face, in Long Island, Utah, Idaho, Washington state, Ohio,
Arizona, and Minnesota. What they say and what you say are two different things.
So either you do not understand the church's official teaching, or you are not correctly presenting it as you know it is contrary to the bible.
No one is flaming or goading. They are pressing you because of these answers are inconsistent.
We desire that you know the true and living God.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"Preacher4Truth,

Oh, you defended it Willie. That's a fact.
I want to address the absurdity and foolishness of the above interactions. @Anthony D'Arienzo @SovereignGrace @Mjh29 @Steve Owen @jshiii @reformed1689 may want to check in here.
alright...
Firstly, Willie T's advice is akin to what Mr. Worldy Wiseman or Mr. Carnality would advise to the world and to alleged believers.
yes, such a response enables sinful beliefs as if we are not our brothers keeper.
Worldly Wiseman, is a good example in that it is the world of the ungodly who champion tolerance and diversity, rather than truth.


The hearty amen that "Jane" gave is unfortunate and only serves to propagate her beliefs, facilitate her beliefs in the different Christ of Mormonism, and in a different gospel altogether. She is emboldened then to believe whatever she wants. Willie will stand before God, as well as she, for this error and for complicity.
Many will agree with Willie T as they do not consider what scripture says, but rather how the "feel" about his ideas.

This idea that man has the right to believe whatever they desire, well, it is antiBiblical and frankly Satanic in nature and goes against the very commands of God.
Not that these two will heed this, this will be for anyone else
:

Scripture is abandoned when these kinds of ideas are championed.

You don't have the right to believe whatever you want! We are commanded to repent and believe the Gospel, in fact all men are and we must ask, if we care for our souls, what these things entail, "What Gospel, what Christ?" Note Acts 17:30. Jesus's very first command, the very first words were repent, and it isn't a suggestion, Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15. This means a change of mind in what a person believes to what God says, and from sin to repentance. Man didn't retain some right to believe whatever he wished.

Many ignore such scriptures to their own peril.
This Gospel and repentance is not whatever man wants to make it, nor is the person of Christ and his nature up for grabs to be whatever one wants to believe. No, no! God commands us to believe in who His word declares him to be, and this God and Christ is contrary to that of JW, Mormonism, the Muslim religion, and all other world religions. This repentance and belief involves the true Christ of Scripture; John 8:24. You don't have "the right to believe whatever you want" about his person. If you are incorrect and believe in a false Christ you WILL die in your sins.

Yes serious words from scripture.

We are not instructed to "believe whatever we want" but are to believe sound doctrine; 2 Timothy 4, and defend the faith once delivered, that is what is contained in Scripture, not "new revelations" or "new revelations" or "other gospels" Jude 1:3; Galatians 1:8-10.

Yes, I also notice these verses say nothing about everyone can believe anything they feel. I do not see that. I do see in Acts 17 that when Paul came across such confused thought, he preached to them on the topic of the UNKNOWN GOD.

Imagine if Paul at Mars Hill implemented Willie T's foolish advice and said they have a right to believe whatever they wanted. All of those false teachers would pat Paul on the back and tell him what a swell person he is. They didn't have that right, they were told to repent and believe the message he preached, the Christ he preached, and the Gospel he preached.
Exactly correct, It would be ludicrous to even imagine Paul doing such a thing.

No, you don't have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, and especially those who allege themselves to be believers in the Christ and Gospel of Scripture.

Yes, we are under orders from the King. It is not a freestyle make it up on the fly kind of thing.
 

SovereignGrace

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I was/am actually working on my response to your larger quote, but I'll skip to that particular part-
The word "inheritance" here doesn't imply that one time that Christ didn't exist. Rather, it acknowledges the Father/Son relationship, and Christ bowing to the Father out off love and respect, and the Father's joy/honoring/celebrating that. The Bible itself uses refers to Christ as the heir of God in several places:
  • We are the children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:16–17
  • Thou art a son, an heir of God through Christ, Gal. 4:7.
  • God hath appointed his Son an heir of all things, Heb. 1:2.
What you are espousing appears to not be inline with the LDS beliefs.
 

DoveSpirit05

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Numbers 16
31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions. 33 They went down alive into the realm of the dead with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. 34 At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, “The earth is going to swallow us too!”

35 And fire came out from the Lord 'and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.
 

DoveSpirit05

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Acts 5

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
 

Renniks

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First post here on this forum. I did not read all 12 pages. I did some skimming.
My opinion on this matter: God is love
1 John 4:8
The entire passage found in 1 John 4:7-21 speaks of God's loving nature. Love is not merely an attribute of God, it who he is. God is not only loving, he is fundamentally love. God alone loves in the completeness and perfection of love.

So, we have to start there to understand God's emotions.
If we don't know that God is perfectly loving, more loving than we could ever be or imagine, we will read all the parts of the Bible about his anger wrong. Lots of people seem to want to make God mostly about his wrath. But his wrath is a necessary element of being a loving God. God could not fully hate the sin that corrupts us if he was less than fully loving.
No, Jesus isn't sissified or wimpy. But, being a gentle man is not being wimpy, it's the opposite. It takes real strength to be gentle and kind and loving. Anyone can be angry, in fact, it seems to be man's default emotion. Men get frustrated about not being able to fix everything in life and it comes out sideways as anger. Jesus doesn't have that problem. Not that he never got frustrated with people, but even when he did, he was still fully loving and still fully angry at the right things. As far as hell goes, yes, it's Biblical. But, it isn't God's will that anyone go to hell. Remember, that he created a perfect world for us and we messed it up. All the ones who choose sin over the love of Christ must be cast out in the end because they will not and can not live among those who adore Christ. You don't leave a rotten apple in with the solid apples or they will all start to rot.
Just some thoughts.
 

Jane_Doe22

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What you are espousing appears to not be inline with the LDS beliefs.
I am explaining actual belief of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Which are different than the inaccurate junk you'll here at an "anti-cult" meeting.

I am an actual member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, for decades. Actively studying, attending at my local congregation(s), the temple, anti-cult shinagins, reading/studying all of that "secret" material, etc. If you want me to address any particular point and honestly want to hear the answer, I'm happy to explain.

I love and embrace my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Like anyone else, I do prefer to have the record straight about what I do actually believe rather than rumors. I'll straight up admit I'm not a Protestant, I don't believe Sola Scriptura, nor TULIP, nor the Athanasian Creed. And I'm also going to straight up admit what I do actually believe (Jesus Christ, the God spoke & speaks to believers, salvation through faith, etc).
 

Willie T

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"Preacher4Truth,


alright...

yes, such a response enables sinful beliefs as if we are not our brothers keeper.
Worldly Wiseman, is a good example in that it is the world of the ungodly who champion tolerance and diversity, rather than truth.



Many will agree with Willie T as they do not consider what scripture says, but rather how the "feel" about his ideas.



Scripture is abandoned when these kinds of ideas are championed.



Many ignore such scriptures to their own peril.


Yes serious words from scripture.



Yes, I also notice these verses say nothing about everyone can believe anything they feel. I do not see that. I do see in Acts 17 that when Paul came across such confused thought, he preached to them on the topic of the UNKNOWN GOD.


Exactly correct, It would be ludicrous to even imagine Paul doing such a thing.



Yes, we are under orders from the King. It is not a freestyle make it up on the fly kind of thing.
Believe something because you are ordered to believe it? (Your future is a frightening thing to contemplate.)
 

Preacher4Truth

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Preacher, may you feel the love of Christ.
"Feel?" I don't depend on feelings, yet many do. They think if they feel goosebumps it was the Holy Spirit. To base our beliefs on feelings is to follow our hearts which are deceitful and wicked. It is to be anthropocentric, not biblical or sound.

I'm good because the true Biblical Christ revealed himself to me, sought me, saved me. The eternal, uncreated, God. It is that we are to "know" the love of Christ, not "feel" it; Ephesians 3:19.

By the way, was that some sort of incantation? It truly sounds that way if you think about it. Is that phrase in the Scripture?

It's of note that those with an unbiblical false Christ look at those who defend the true need some love, need to "feel" it as if in their position they don't have it or are "unloving." Lol!!!

People probably felt that way about Paul, the prophets, Peter, Jude and even Christ.
 

Jane_Doe22

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"Feel?" I don't depend on feelings, yet many do. They think if they feel goosebumps it was the Holy Spirit. To base our beliefs on feelings is to follow our hearts which are deceitful and wicked. It is to be anthropocentric, not biblical or sound.

I'm good because the true Biblical Christ revealed himself to me, sought me, saved me. The eternal, uncreated, God. It is that we are to "know" the love of Christ, not "feel" it; Ephesians 3:19.

By the way, was that some sort of incantation? It truly sounds that way if you think about it. Is that phrase in the Scripture?

It's of note that those with an unbiblical false Christ look at those who defend the true need some love, need to "feel" it as if in their position they don't have it or are "unloving." Lol!!!

People probably felt that way about Paul, the prophets, Peter, Jude and even Christ.
:rolleyes:
Preacher, your behavior to me is abusive, and you claiming Christ while you do it is... suffice it to say I find it to be very rotten fruit. There is zero reason for me to tolerate it. I wish you well in life, may you ever grow closer to Christ, but I will not longer be responding to you.
 
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Renniks

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our hearts which are deceitful and wicked. It is to be anthropocentric, not biblical or sound.

I'm good because the true Biblical Christ revealed himself to me, sought me, saved me.
So, which is it? The unredeemed heart is deceitful and wicked. If you are good, your heart can't still be wicked. God promised to give us a heart of flesh and take away our hard heart. If you think your heart is still wicked, you aren't believing that God's promise was true.
 

reformed1689

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:rolleyes:
Preacher, your behavior to me is abusive, and you claiming Christ while you do it is... suffice it to say I find it to be very rotten fruit. There is zero reason for me to tolerate it. I wish you well in life, may you ever grow closer to Christ, but I will not longer be responding to you.
I think you need to look up the definition of flaming....
 

Helen

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Helen,

Hello Helen,
Thank you for the excellent questions. I cannot speak for all calvinists, but i will give an answer to you that can be helpful.

Thank you for taking the time to post all that ( which got stuck behind the "quotes" but I still got it all.

Not really just a Calvinist question ..but here it is....

As you probably know by now...I have strong leanings toward what they call -Universalism, (although I hate that word and do not fit into their box. )

I cannot see that God, who set-up Adam and Eve , and placed the 'Serpent' in the middle .... that after doing that ...and knowing they would fall. ( I get that from the verse " The Lamb slain from BEFORE the creation of the world"
Which tells is God always 'had a Plan A '. Jesus.

So, what I can't seem to see that God, after starting this ball rolling, would then allow 90% of all humanity to end up in hell.
I was saved back in 1964 and I have never understood... " God wins, He saved 10% of the world! " Which looks to me like the Serpent wins!!

It's always bothered me.

But probably I am derailing this thread in throwing this in...
 
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