My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

[Jane_Doe22]

I do have to say that I am not trying to defend any of LDS theology... just a person's right to believe it if they want to. All I think we have any liberty to do is state what we think is correct belief... PERIOD.

AMEN!!!!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You really ought to try to get it right. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes that all spirits created by the Father are brothers.

Try this on for size Willie;
From TGC;
6. Unlike Christian Trinitarianism (one God existing in three Persons), Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. They also believe the Father and Son each have a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” but that the Holy Ghost “has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.” According to Joseph Smith, when Adam was formed in the image of God, it was a physical image. God the Father was once a mortal who lived on an earth. He died, was resurrected, glorified, and grew into his deified status. (According to Joseph Smith, there is a “God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”) God the Father is the literal father of all spirit-children, including Jesus and the Holy Ghost, whose divinity is derived from the parent-child relationship. Within Mormonism, Jesus is identified with the Yahweh of the Old Testament.

or this;
7. According to Mormonism, everything in the universe — including God —is ultimately governed by eternal transcendent laws and principles. In LDS teaching, all the Father’s children (including humans) possess the same potential to become gods (like the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost) since they are of the same species. Every human spirit once existed as a divine intelligence before becoming the spirit-children of the Father.


Note on sources: Wherever possible, I included links directly to official Mormon sources. In other areas I relied on Mormonism Explained; What Latter-day Saints Teach and Practice by Andrew Jackson.
9 Things You Should Know About Mormonism

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Try this on for size Willie;
From TGC;
6. Unlike Christian Trinitarianism (one God existing in three Persons), Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. They also believe the Father and Son each have a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” but that the Holy Ghost “has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.” According to Joseph Smith, when Adam was formed in the image of God, it was a physical image. God the Father was once a mortal who lived on an earth. He died, was resurrected, glorified, and grew into his deified status. (According to Joseph Smith, there is a “God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”) God the Father is the literal father of all spirit-children, including Jesus and the Holy Ghost, whose divinity is derived from the parent-child relationship. Within Mormonism, Jesus is identified with the Yahweh of the Old Testament.

or this;
7. According to Mormonism, everything in the universe — including God —is ultimately governed by eternal transcendent laws and principles. In LDS teaching, all the Father’s children (including humans) possess the same potential to become gods (like the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost) since they are of the same species. Every human spirit once existed as a divine intelligence before becoming the spirit-children of the Father.


Note on sources: Wherever possible, I included links directly to official Mormon sources. In other areas I relied on Mormonism Explained; What Latter-day Saints Teach and Practice by Andrew Jackson.
9 Things You Should Know About Mormonism

Anthony:
Your core of your first quote (#6) is from a sermon which is not considered scripture by LDS Christians, and does not remotely have "thus saith the Lord" status. It's speculation that's not actually discussed in LDS Christian Church. You'll find a bunch of different opinions on from people literally sitting in the same pew. Zero of those are what any Creed Christian (such as yourself) would think when hearing it. To discuss this quote requires a lot of background discussion about the oneness of God, the Creeds, what's actually in the Bible, etc. I find that 99% of the time non-LDS Christians aren't actually interested in that.

The second paragraph of your post is talking about our potential to become joint heirs with Christ, through His atonement. We never replace our Father, nor our Savior, rather become perfected joint errors with Christ. Here's some verses:

• let them have dominion, Gen. 1:26 (Moses 2:26)
• man is become as one of us, Gen. 3:22 (Moses 4:28).
• be holy: for I … am holy, Lev. 19:2 (1 Pet. 1:16).
• thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, Ps. 8:5.
• madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands, Ps. 8:6.
• Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High, Ps. 82:6.

• Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48 (3 Ne. 12:48).
• spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have, Luke 24:39.
• Is it not written in your law … Ye are gods, John 10:34 (Ps. 82; D&C 76:58).
• we are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.
• heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17.
• changed into the same image from glory to glory, 2 Cor. 3:18.
• if a son, then an heir of God through Christ, Gal. 4:7.
• Till we all come … unto a perfect man, Eph. 4:13.
• be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live, Heb. 12:9.
• when he shall appear, we shall be like him, 1 Jn. 3:2.
• him that overcometh will … sit with me in my throne, Rev. 3:21.

 

[Helen]

I do have to say that I am not trying to defend any of LDS theology... just a person's right to believe it if they want to. All I think we have any liberty to do is state what we think is correct belief... PERIOD.

Well said @Willie T

Me too...I disagree with some things , but I wont 'argue the point' with anyone .
I have usually made it my habit with others to let people ask me what and why I believe such and such a thing. I don't push my beliefs on others.

 

[Willie T]

Try this on for size Willie;
From TGC;
6. Unlike Christian Trinitarianism (one God existing in three Persons), Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. They also believe the Father and Son each have a “body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” but that the Holy Ghost “has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.” According to Joseph Smith, when Adam was formed in the image of God, it was a physical image. God the Father was once a mortal who lived on an earth. He died, was resurrected, glorified, and grew into his deified status. (According to Joseph Smith, there is a “God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”) God the Father is the literal father of all spirit-children, including Jesus and the Holy Ghost, whose divinity is derived from the parent-child relationship. Within Mormonism, Jesus is identified with the Yahweh of the Old Testament.

or this;
7. According to Mormonism, everything in the universe — including God —is ultimately governed by eternal transcendent laws and principles. In LDS teaching, all the Father’s children (including humans) possess the same potential to become gods (like the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost) since they are of the same species. Every human spirit once existed as a divine intelligence before becoming the spirit-children of the Father.


Note on sources: Wherever possible, I included links directly to official Mormon sources. In other areas I relied on Mormonism Explained; What Latter-day Saints Teach and Practice by Andrew Jackson.
9 Things You Should Know About Mormonism

When did "The Gospel Coalition" become LDS?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

2 john;
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We are our brother's keeper, not just spectators

 

[Jane_Doe22]

2 john;
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We are our brother's keeper, not just spectators

If your concern is honestly Christ and salvation, then talk withe about Him are HIs Good News.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I do have to say that I am not trying to defend any of LDS theology... just a person's right to believe it if they want to. All I think we have any liberty to do is state what we think is correct belief... PERIOD.

Oh, you defended it Willie. That's a fact.

AMEN!!!!

I want to address the absurdity and foolishness of the above interactions. @Anthony D'Arienzo @SovereignGrace @Mjh29 @Steve Owen @jshiii @reformed1689 may want to check in here.

Firstly, Willie T's advice is akin to what Mr. Worldy Wiseman or Mr. Carnality would advise to the world and to alleged believers.

The hearty amen that "Jane" gave is unfortunate and only serves to propagate her beliefs, facilitate her beliefs in the different Christ of Mormonism, and in a different gospel altogether. She is emboldened then to believe whatever she wants. Willie will stand before God, as well as she, for this error and for complicity.

This idea that man has the right to believe whatever they desire, well, it is antiBiblical and frankly Satanic in nature and goes against the very commands of God.

Not that these two will heed this, this will be for anyone else:

You don't have the right to believe whatever you want! We are commanded to repent and believe the Gospel, in fact all men are and we must ask, if we care for our souls, what these things entail, "What Gospel, what Christ?" Note Acts 17:30. Jesus's very first command, the very first words were repent, and it isn't a suggestion, Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15. This means a change of mind in what a person believes to what God says, and from sin to repentance. Man didn't retain some right to believe whatever he wished.

This Gospel and repentance is not whatever man wants to make it, nor is the person of Christ and his nature up for grabs to be whatever one wants to believe. No, no! God commands us to believe in who His word declares him to be, and this God and Christ is contrary to that of JW, Mormonism, the Muslim religion, and all other world religions. This repentance and belief involves the true Christ of Scripture; John 8:24. You don't have "the right to believe whatever you want" about his person. If you are incorrect and believe in a false Christ you WILL die in your sins.

We are not instructed to "believe whatever we want" but are to believe sound doctrine; 2 Timothy 4, and defend the faith once delivered, that is what is contained in Scripture, not "new revelations" or "new revelations" or "other gospels" Jude 1:3; Galatians 1:8-10.

Imagine if Paul at Mars Hill implemented Willie T's foolish advice and said they have a right to believe whatever they wanted. All of those false teachers would pat Paul on the back and tell him what a swell person he is. They didn't have that right, they were told to repent and believe the message he preached, the Christ he preached, and the Gospel he preached.

No, you don't have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, and especially those who allege themselves to be believers in the Christ and Gospel of Scripture.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Oh, you defended it Willie. That's a fact.



I want to address the absurdity and foolishness of the above interactions. @Anthony D'Arienzo @SovereignGrace @Mjh29 @Steve Owen @jshiii @reformed1689 may want to check in here.

Firstly, Willie T's advice is akin to what Mr. Worldy Wiseman or Mr. Carnality would advise to the world and to alleged believers.

The hearty amen that "Jane" gave is unfortunate and only serves to propagate her beliefs, facilitate her beliefs in the different Christ of Mormonism, and in a different gospel altogether. She is emboldened then to believe whatever she wants. Willie will stand before God, as well as she, for this error and for complicity.

This idea that man has the right to believe whatever they desire, well, it is antiBiblical and frankly Satanic in nature and goes against the very commands of God.

Not that these two will heed this, this will be for anyone else:

You don't have the right to believe whatever you want! We are commanded to repent and believe the Gospel, in fact all men are and we must ask, if we care for our souls, what these things entail, "What Gospel, what Christ?" Note Acts 17:30. Jesus's very first command, the very first words were repent, and it isn't a suggestion, Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15. This means a change of mind in what a person believes to what God says, and from sin to repentance. Man didn't retain some right to believe whatever he wished.

This Gospel and repentance is not whatever man wants to make it, nor is the person of Christ and his nature up for grabs to be whatever one wants to believe. No, no! God commands us to believe in who His word declares him to be, and this God and Christ is contrary to that of JW, Mormonism, the Muslim religion, and all other world religions. This repentance and belief involves the true Christ of Scripture; John 8:24. You don't have "the right to believe whatever you want" about his person. If you are incorrect and believe in a false Christ you WILL die in your sins.

We are not instructed to "believe whatever we want" but are to believe sound doctrine; 2 Timothy 4, and defend the faith once delivered, that is what is contained in Scripture, not "new revelations" or "new revelations" or "other gospels" Jude 1:3; Galatians 1:8-10.

Imagine if Paul at Mars Hill implemented Willie T's foolish advice and said they have a right to believe whatever they wanted. All of those false teachers would pat Paul on the back and tell him what a swell person he is. They didn't have that right, they were told to repent and believe the message he preached, the Christ he preached, and the Gospel he preached.

No, you don't have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, and especially those who allege themselves to be believers in the Christ and Gospel of Scripture.

Preacher, may you feel the love of Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Oh, you defended it Willie. That's a fact.



I want to address the absurdity and foolishness of the above interactions. @Anthony D'Arienzo @SovereignGrace @Mjh29 @Steve Owen @jshiii @reformed1689 may want to check in here.

Firstly, Willie T's advice is akin to what Mr. Worldy Wiseman or Mr. Carnality would advise to the world and to alleged believers.

The hearty amen that "Jane" gave is unfortunate and only serves to propagate her beliefs, facilitate her beliefs in the different Christ of Mormonism, and in a different gospel altogether. She is emboldened then to believe whatever she wants. Willie will stand before God, as well as she, for this error and for complicity.

This idea that man has the right to believe whatever they desire, well, it is antiBiblical and frankly Satanic in nature and goes against the very commands of God.

Not that these two will heed this, this will be for anyone else:

You don't have the right to believe whatever you want! We are commanded to repent and believe the Gospel, in fact all men are and we must ask, if we care for our souls, what these things entail, "What Gospel, what Christ?" Note Acts 17:30. Jesus's very first command, the very first words were repent, and it isn't a suggestion, Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15. This means a change of mind in what a person believes to what God says, and from sin to repentance. Man didn't retain some right to believe whatever he wished.

This Gospel and repentance is not whatever man wants to make it, nor is the person of Christ and his nature up for grabs to be whatever one wants to believe. No, no! God commands us to believe in who His word declares him to be, and this God and Christ is contrary to that of JW, Mormonism, the Muslim religion, and all other world religions. This repentance and belief involves the true Christ of Scripture; John 8:24. You don't have "the right to believe whatever you want" about his person. If you are incorrect and believe in a false Christ you WILL die in your sins.

We are not instructed to "believe whatever we want" but are to believe sound doctrine; 2 Timothy 4, and defend the faith once delivered, that is what is contained in Scripture, not "new revelations" or "new revelations" or "other gospels" Jude 1:3; Galatians 1:8-10.

Imagine if Paul at Mars Hill implemented Willie T's foolish advice and said they have a right to believe whatever they wanted. All of those false teachers would pat Paul on the back and tell him what a swell person he is. They didn't have that right, they were told to repent and believe the message he preached, the Christ he preached, and the Gospel he preached.

No, you don't have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, and especially those who allege themselves to be believers in the Christ and Gospel of Scripture.

All he is doing is “amening” them both to hell. We can’t just call things like this as merely a difference of opinion. Theology matters. It literally means ‘study of God’. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Oh, you defended it Willie. That's a fact.



I want to address the absurdity and foolishness of the above interactions. @Anthony D'Arienzo @SovereignGrace @Mjh29 @Steve Owen @jshiii @reformed1689 may want to check in here.

Firstly, Willie T's advice is akin to what Mr. Worldy Wiseman or Mr. Carnality would advise to the world and to alleged believers.

The hearty amen that "Jane" gave is unfortunate and only serves to propagate her beliefs, facilitate her beliefs in the different Christ of Mormonism, and in a different gospel altogether. She is emboldened then to believe whatever she wants. Willie will stand before God, as well as she, for this error and for complicity.

This idea that man has the right to believe whatever they desire, well, it is antiBiblical and frankly Satanic in nature and goes against the very commands of God.

Not that these two will heed this, this will be for anyone else:

You don't have the right to believe whatever you want! We are commanded to repent and believe the Gospel, in fact all men are and we must ask, if we care for our souls, what these things entail, "What Gospel, what Christ?" Note Acts 17:30. Jesus's very first command, the very first words were repent, and it isn't a suggestion, Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15. This means a change of mind in what a person believes to what God says, and from sin to repentance. Man didn't retain some right to believe whatever he wished.

This Gospel and repentance is not whatever man wants to make it, nor is the person of Christ and his nature up for grabs to be whatever one wants to believe. No, no! God commands us to believe in who His word declares him to be, and this God and Christ is contrary to that of JW, Mormonism, the Muslim religion, and all other world religions. This repentance and belief involves the true Christ of Scripture; John 8:24. You don't have "the right to believe whatever you want" about his person. If you are incorrect and believe in a false Christ you WILL die in your sins.

We are not instructed to "believe whatever we want" but are to believe sound doctrine; 2 Timothy 4, and defend the faith once delivered, that is what is contained in Scripture, not "new revelations" or "new revelations" or "other gospels" Jude 1:3; Galatians 1:8-10.

Imagine if Paul at Mars Hill implemented Willie T's foolish advice and said they have a right to believe whatever they wanted. All of those false teachers would pat Paul on the back and tell him what a swell person he is. They didn't have that right, they were told to repent and believe the message he preached, the Christ he preached, and the Gospel he preached.

No, you don't have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, and especially those who allege themselves to be believers in the Christ and Gospel of Scripture.

“Well, it’s not for us to say. We aren’t God, so we just need to love ppl.” Said no theologian worth his weight in marshmallows.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

All he is doing is “amening” them both to hell. We can’t just call things like this as merely a difference of opinion. Theology matters. It literally means ‘study of God’. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.

The reason I stated he is supporting LDS false teaching, even though he says he isn't is for the fact he liked her "amen!" response to his post. This proves he's complicit and approving toward her false beliefs. His saying he isn't is a cop out and totally disingenuous.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The reason I stated he is supporting LDS false teaching, even though he says he isn't is for the fact he liked her "amen!" response to his post. This proves he's complicit and approving toward her false beliefs. His saying he isn't is a cop out and totally disingenuous.

Exactly. If a modalist “liked” a post of mine in regards to the Trinity, I’d have to rethink my position.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Preacher4Truth , @SovereignGrace , @Anthony D'Arienzo , each of you profess that I am damned, yet none of you talk Christ with me or actually talk TO me. If you are actually concerned, then ditch your preconceptions and talk WITH me. No flaming, no fear, no what you’ve been told, no “anti-cult” lies. Talk WITH me about CHRIST.

 

[Helen]

All he is doing is “amening” them both to hell. We can’t just call things like this as merely a difference of opinion. Theology matters. It literally means ‘study of God’. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.

Question.
Ive been talk to a Calvinist who says the If God has chosen a person to be he's saved, but if He hasn't chosen a person to be saved, Then he isn't.

My question is , to you or @Preacher4Truth here.
How do you ( Calvinists ) share the Gospel and find out IF a person is destined to be one of the saved ones.

If God has chosen someone here to be saved ( to be a Calvinist) why don't you guys seem to try and get them to se the truth...why only tell people that they are not chosen to be saved? How do you know?

This is not a 'tongue in cheek 'question but a genuine question. I don't know how you believe about that.

Using Jone Doe for instance, how would you know whether she is destined to chosen to become a Calvinist , say in a year or so?

I see Calvinists tell people how wrong they are , I can't remember seeing any of you ever trying to turn us from error, to what you believe to be correct belief.
So how do you share your truth with others?

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Preacher4Truth , @SovereignGrace , @Anthony D'Arienzo , each of you profess that I am damned, yet none of you talk Christ with me or actually talk TO me. If you are actually concerned, then ditch your preconceptions and talk WITH me. No flaming, no fear, no what you’ve been told, no “anti-cult” lies. Talk WITH me about CHRIST.

Is the Christ a created being?

 

[Helen]

@Preacher4Truth , @SovereignGrace , @Anthony D'Arienzo , each of you profess that I am damned, yet none of you talk Christ with me or actually talk TO me. If you are actually concerned, then ditch your preconceptions and talk WITH me. No flaming, no fear, no what you’ve been told, no “anti-cult” lies. Talk WITH me about CHRIST.

Golly, I was just asking them the very same thing in a post at the same time you wrote yours. Just in different words.
I was amazed to then read your post here

 

[SovereignGrace]

Question.
Ive been talk to a Calvinist who says the If God has chosen a person to be he's saved, but if He hasn't chosen a person to be saved, Then he isn't.

My question is , to you or @Preacher4Truth here.
How do you ( Calvinists ) share the Gospel and find out IF a person is destined to be one of the saved ones.

If God has chosen someone here to be saved ( to be a Calvinist) why don't you guys seem to try and get them to se the truth...why only tell people that they are not chosen to be saved? How do you know?

This is not a 'tongue in cheek 'question but a genuine question. I don't know how you believe about that.

Using Jone Doe for instance, how would you know whether she is destined to chosen to become a Calvinist , say in a year or so?

I see Calvinists tell people how wrong they are , I can't remember seeing any of you ever trying to turn us from error, to what you believe to be correct belief.
So how do you share your truth with others?

I tell them that God sent His Son to come and live in the place of His ppl. He died for them, rose for them. I don’t sugarcoat it and say God loves them and has a wonderful plan for their lives. You will not find that quoted by the Christ, nor any of His Apostles. That outside of Him, they are lost and headed for hell. That repentance is required of all ppl, as a command from God. If they do not repent and believe the gospel, they will die in their sins and raise to be cast into an eternal hell.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Exactly. If a modalist “liked” a post of mine in regards to the Trinity, I’d have to rethink my position.

Sad thing about Jane is she thinks it's ok to believe whatever she wants, and ok for everyone else to believe whatever they want as well about Christ and the Gospel. This is done because she is fully aware that the Christ and gospel of Mormonism are not the Christ and Gospel of Scripture. She flat out denieS Christ is eternal, uncreated, YHWH, and that there are no other Gods beside him.

This is why she cowers and refuses to answer questions. 2 Corinthians 4:2 exposes this way of hiding beliefs as a telltale sign and earmark of false teachers. All true Gospel teachers are out in the open about their beliefs plus their teachings are sound in doctrine. She refuses to answer questions because she has much to hide.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sad thing about Jane is she thinks it's ok to believe whatever she wants, and ok for everyone else to believe whatever they want as well about Christ and the Gospel. This is done because she is fully aware that the Christ and gospel of Mormonism are not the Christ and Gospel of Scripture. She flat out denieS Christ is eternal, uncreated, YHWH, and that there are no other Gods beside him.

This is why she cowers and refuses to answer questions. 2 Corinthians 4:2 exposes this way of hiding beliefs as a telltale sign and earmark of false teachers. All true Gospel teachers are out in the open about their beliefs plus their teachings are sound in doctrine. She refuses to answer questions because she has much to hide.

Well, the first thing I asked her is is the Christ a created being.