My Sheep Hear My Voice

[Trumpeter]

Well there must be a lot of us then. As I understand it if we hear Audible voices in our head from day to day then we are schizophrenic, and in need of psychiatric assistance..

1Cr 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

 

[Rex]

JB has just taken this practice to the next level, my point was that any simple minded man can look in Matthew and look at the catholic mass and say, hmmm there's something fishy here. Matthew bread and wine, RCC not big on following the bibles example. LOL

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Is that why the Roman Pagans called the Early Church, canabals? Gnostics didn't even believe Christ had a body....lol

Gnosticism is broader than you may imagine. It's now believed it emcompases many forms of thought. But what it's main tenant is a rejection of basic biblical faith for so-called higher/hidden forms of understanding. This my friend is what transubstantiation is all about.

If it's not gnostic in nature than it must be pagan. For they too don't understand the intent of the word.

 

[aspen]

Another one of the tenets of all Gnostics is a rejection of the physical world. Also, if you reject all mystery within Christianity, you would have to reject God and His grace and all paradox. Just because the Eucharist is a mystery, does not qualify it as secret knowledge or reserved for people who possess secret knowledge. The Eucharist is reserved for all who share the belief in the real presence. Pros taunts who reserve communion for baptized individuals are claiming the same practice.

 

[Rex]

. Just because the Eucharist is a mystery, does not qualify it as secret knowledge or reserved for people who possess secret knowledge.

Your church takes it to different level by insisting it holds the secret mysterious recipe, and all other forms of communion are inferior.
Only the Gnostics of the RCC hold the power of transubstantiation

Id say that qualifies it as secret knowledge reserved for people that possess secret knowledge.

 

[aspen]

Your church takes it to different level by insisting it holds the secret mysterious recipe, and all other forms of communion are inferior.
Only the Gnostics of the RCC hold the power of transubstantiation

Id say that qualifies it as secret knowledge reserved for people that possess secret knowledge.

Really? So do you believe that Christians are Gnostic for claiming that we have the Holy Spirit and Mormons do not? Exclusivity does not make you a Gnostic. The Reformers are the reason Christianity no longer shares the same belief about the Eucharist.

 

[Rex]

Now that you want to mention it yes the RCC believes it has the market cornered on the HS, salvation, Apostleship basically operating as a god forgiving sins as well as baring certain people from salvation you name it including infallibility

In a nut shell your god lives in Vatican city, which is really a country, and rides around in bullet proof pope mobile.

 

[daq]

If you do not hear the words of the Shepherd which are written for all to see in the Gospel accounts; then you do not hear his voice. If you hear voices, see visions, apparitions, or dream dreams, and those things speak in opposition to what is written; then we do not have the same Shepherd. That is all there is to it plain and simple. It is one thing to disagree on the understandings of what is already written but it is quite another thing to offer "new words" from the Father which contradict that which we know him to have already spoken.

 

[aspen]

so you completely ignore my post just so you can spread more lies about Catholicism? Awesome, Rex......

 

[Rex]

Your question implied an association with Christians filled with the Spirit as being both protestant and catholic, when in reality your church doesn't officially recognize any christian as being spirit filled outside of RCC membership. So your again trying to blur the line or mix being catholic or protestant as being the same in Christ, it has noting to do with the reformers and everything to do with the RCC exulting itself and functioning as though it were God. In which case the exit by the reformers is understood as rejecting a counterfeit religious substitute for God that has no power to save.

So your question is grabbing the belt of the Spirit and claiming then all believers in the HS are gnostic. This is nothing but a lame attempt to cover what the RCC teaches as being one in the same as protestants. So I thought I would point out that the RCC is very different. Now on the outside the RCC goes to great lengths to portray itself as being like any other church but inside it's still the same pompous, self exulting, operational god on earth, who places itself above above all others. So you see apen I did answer your question. The RCC insist it stands alone and I'm happy to point out why it believes so.

 

[aspen]

I know providing sources for your wild claims about Catholicism are beneath you, Rex, but since you are making the claim that the RCC teaches that salvation does not exist outside the RCC, I think you need to reach down really deep and humor us. Your lies are so blatant and ridiculous I can barely comprehend what you are writing. Apparently, any negative idea you can dream up must be taught by the Catholic Church.

The Gnostic claim you are making about Catholicism, is actually the dividing line between Christians and non-Christians. Therefore, it is you that is trying to dodge the fact that according to your faulty definition of Gnosticism, all Christian would be counted as Gnostic based on the belief that Mormons do not share the HS with the rest of the Body of Christ.

Why not be honest? It is you alone that rejects the Catholic Church as Christian - it is not us that rejects you

And dragonfly, I am a bit shocked at your support of this tabloid material.

 

[Rex]

Well aspen all one has to do is read the catechism, in-spite of what you say or the fancy flowery statements made by the Vatican the letter of the catechism still exist unchanged. IMO what it amounts to and the reason I confronted you about riding my wave is because the RCC and its members try very hard to present themselves as no different than protestants today. The truth is just as I stated on the last page, anyone can google questions about the catechism and see for themselves inspite of your denial.

The catechism is still the Holy ordinance of the RCC isn't it?
Now your going to say nobody can read and understand it, that's the next move isn't it?

 

[Trumpeter]

For All Those Who Call of Themselves Christian Who Have Not Embraced Their Savior in Truth, And For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear


Thus says The Lord of Heaven and Earth: I have seen and I have heard!... And no more shall I allow all this iniquity to thrive before My face! No longer shall I allow all this sin to proliferate throughout the earth!

Thus says The Lord your Redeemer, He who weeps for you... Behold, with many tears I speak to you: Oh My beloved lost sheep, you have wandered far from Me, you have gone astray. Why, beloved? Why have you forsaken Me? You were to be My treasure!... Oh how I weep for you; yes, We weep for you, beloved! Turn aside and return to Me, for I call to you still.
Beloved, do you not hear Me weeping? Have you not tasted of these bitter tears, which I have shed for you? Have you not heard the sound of My sorrow, which fills My voice? Do you not know the depths of My love? Where are you, beloved?!... You are lost, chasing after every unclean thing, in a world which seeks only to consume you!
Come home! COME HOME, MY BELOVED ONES! There is no more time to tarry! For the time has come for The Father’s indignation to be poured out! And all the children of disobedience shall come to know it!... Yes, all these insolent and rebellious peoples shall surely drink of it!
Yet here I am, beloved! Look up, My children, and give Me glory! Repent in dust and ashes! Wail and lament loudly!... Cry out! For there is One Salvation!... Only one name by which you must be saved, One God and One Savior, only One who can fulfill your heart’s innermost desire... I am He, beloved! I AM HE!... YahuShua is My name.

Beloved, come home to Me, and wait no longer;
Be spared from all these troubles, which have come upon this generation...


Now is the accepted time! Today is the day of salvation!



Thus have I spoken it and so shall it be,
For I swear by Myself, says The Lord...


It has begun.​

​

​

Excerpt from:​

Lost Sheep​

http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=Lost_Sheep​

 

[aspen]

I have read the catechism many times and I have taught it. When I suggested that you read it - you simply ignored me. It is pretty arrogant to assume that you know more about my church than I do.

The catechism is a summary of catholic teachings

 

[Rex]

nice post Trupeter

The Lord is in the business of raising up brothers from the flock.
Yes many sheep will be separated from the goats at His coming.

1 Cor 11-15

What happens, the good Shepperd takes the best of his flock and offers it up as a sacrifice
Just as Abraham offered his son.
In the same way Jesus our High Priest offers up sheep to become brothers.

We are instructed to make ourselves living sacrifices. The goal is to step from the sheep pen into the house hold.
Not to live a life of sheep

Learn the meaning of the bond servant

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Another one of the tenets of all Gnostics is a rejection of the physical world. Also, if you reject all mystery within Christianity, you would have to reject God and His grace and all paradox. Just because the Eucharist is a mystery, does not qualify it as secret knowledge or reserved for people who possess secret knowledge. The Eucharist is reserved for all who share the belief in the real presence. Pros taunts who reserve communion for baptized individuals are claiming the same practice.

Isn't true that those in the RCC believe by so-called participating in the eucharist jesus constantly is saving them(by eating and drinking their tapping the fountain of life), by virtue of his blood and body. Hence the reason for the frequency of its use in the RCC. Know doubt(historical fact) this was the habit and motive of the early Roman Church now called RCC.

I know providing sources for your wild claims about Catholicism are beneath you, Rex, but since you are making the claim that the RCC teaches that salvation does not exist outside the RCC, I think you need to reach down really deep and humor us. Your lies are so blatant and ridiculous I can barely comprehend what you are writing.

Apparently, any negative idea you can dream up must be taught by the Catholic Church.

The original saying by Saint Cyprian of Carthage (3rd century AD) is found his Letter LXXII, Ad Jubajanum de haereticis baptizandis, and in Latin reads: "Salus extra ecclesiam non est".[5]
Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."
Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): "We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, ... .

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

Pope Boniface I, Epistle 14.1: "It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to its fellowship."
Pope Pelagius II (578-590): "Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord… Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness… Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned… [If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church" (Denzinger, 469).
Saint Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved."
Pope Sylvester II, Profession of Faith, June AD 991: "I believe that in Baptism all sins are forgiven, that one which was committed originally as much as those which are voluntarily committed, and I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved."
Pope Innocent III (1198–1216), Profession of Faith prescribed for the Waldensians: "With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved" (Denzinger 792).

Pope St. Pius X (1903–1914), Encyclical Jucunda Sane: "It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation."
Pope Benedict XV (1914–1922), Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum: "Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved."
Pope Pius XI (1922–1939), Encyclical Mortalium Animos: "The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation… Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors."
Pope Pius XII (1939–1958), Encyclical Humani Generis, August 12, 1950: "Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation."
Pope Pius XII (1939–1958), Allocution to the Gregorian University (17 October 1953): "By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth."
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."

What's the twist?
Context, context, context

ASPEN2... you ought not to bear false witness nor slander... .

 

[aspen]

Participating in the Eucharist is not magic or like a 'fountain of youth'. It is practicing obedience and adoration and worship of Christ. All of these practices are included in loving God and therefore, practicing our justification, sanctification, and salvation.

All quotes that you included before the Reformation are applied to the entire world of Christiandom. After the Reformation, it took the RCC a while to recognize the similarities between the Reformation Churches and the RCC - now that the RCC sees the Trinitarian nature of reformation churches and the good works and the present of the HS within the members of these churches, rather than just focusing on the rebellion, the RCC has emphasized the truth that Spirit goes where it may and that salvation it not a possession of any church, but instead is a quality of a loving, grace-filled, relationship with God. This should be good news, JB - yet you seem to have a critical spirit.

 

[Rex]

now that the RCC sees the Trinitarian nature of reformation churches and the good works and the present of the HS within the members of these churches, rather than just focusing on the rebellion, the RCC has emphasized the truth that Spirit goes where it may and that salvation it not a possession of any church,

Prove it from the catachisum

 

[aspen]

Prove it from the catachisum

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
"I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . .All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272[\B]

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Toward unity

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

821 Certain things are required in order to respond adequately to this call:

- a permanent renewal of the Church in greater fidelity to her vocation; such renewal is the driving-force of the movement toward unity;280

- conversion of heart as the faithful "try to live holier lives according to the Gospel";281 for it is the unfaithfulness of the members to Christ's gift which causes divisions;

- prayer in common, because "change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name 'spiritual ecumenism;"'282

- fraternal knowledge of each other;283

- ecumenical formation of the faithful and especially of priests;284

- dialogue among theologians and meetings among Christians of the different churches and communities;285

- collaboration among Christians in various areas of service to mankind.286 "Human service" is the idiomatic phrase.
822 Concern for achieving unity "involves the whole Church, faithful and clergy alike."287 But we must realize "that this holy objective - the reconciliation of all Christians in the unity of the one and only Church of Christ - transcends human powers and gifts." That is why we place all our hope "in the prayer of Christ for the Church, in the love of the Father for us, and in the power of the Holy Spirit."288

 

[Rex]

All the flowery empty words you posted mean nothing and here's the clause that doesn't contradict what is taught that the Catholic church belives itself to be above all "see what JB posted" and is still believed and taught, and exist in the catechism see 838 below your Doctored up misleading statement.

All quotes that you included before the Reformation are applied to the entire world of Christiandom. After the Reformation, it took the RCC a while to recognize the similarities between the Reformation Churches and the RCC - now that the RCC sees the Trinitarian nature of reformation churches and the good works and the present of the HS within the members of these churches, rather than just focusing on the rebellion, the RCC has emphasized the truth that Spirit goes where it may and that salvation it not a possession of any church, but instead is a quality of a loving, grace-filled, relationship with God. This should be good news, JB - yet you seem to have a critical spirit.

You contradicted your catachisum

811 "This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic."256 These four characteristics, inseparably linked with each other,257 indicate essential features of the Church and her mission. The Church does not possess them of herself; it is Christ who, through the Holy Spirit, makes his Church one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and it is he who calls her to realize each of these qualities.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324




I like this foot 835 note because it magnifies the extent a true prostitute will tolerate so long as you bend the knee to the Vatican.
We see this played out in particular in S America and the Philippine ares where people still practice their ancient forms of religion which is fine by Rome and the pope so long as you bow to her and the scepter

835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum, or . . . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she put down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world."318 The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches "unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church."319