My take on the Baptism in the Spirit...

[Carl Emerson]

Baptism in the spirit is not an optional extra for some but an essential empowering for anyone who truely seeks to walk in the purposes of Jesus fruitfully.

The reason for this is that the empowering of the Holy Spirit upon you and the manifestation of what gifts you need to serve effectively where you are planted will follow this important gift of Grace.

I will start with contextualising the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Broadly speaking the Empowering of the Spirit upon God's servants in the old covenant was temporary for a task. Further I don't believe in the OC the saints were indwelled as we are.

So being born again means permanent indwelling, however He can be grieved by our lack of communion with Him and His presence can dissipate. We then need fresh infilling after repentance...

It seems to me that the born again experience is at a time when He gives the Grace to make the decision to be fully surrendered to His Will.

But the BHS experience is in His time - not our decision but His.

Now a critical matter to understand is that JB was given a sign to recognise Messiah.

He baptising in the Jordan and was told to watch out for the ONE on whom the Spirit would come upon and remain upon.

All others would receive a temporary blessing of the presence of the Spirit but Jesus received this permanently.

It should be noted that Jesus was indwelled with the Spirit from birth, but this Baptism in the Spirit that He received as He was coming up out of the water was a permanent empowering upon Him for ministry.

It is important to note that JB was also told the Jesus would Baptise in the Holy Spirit and that what JB saw was in fact the very first occasion on which any human was baptised in the Spirit.

The BHS is not always given by the laying on of hands - many, like myself testify to receiving BHS quite independently.

In scripture when BHS was received at the time of laying on of hands, the apostles must have been hearing from the Spirit and been in sync with God's timing.

That is one of the reasons there has been confusion - leaders laying on hands without really knowing it is God's time for the individual.

Combine this with the insistence that every individual must speak in tongues and you have serious mix of half truth.

I received the Baptism in the Spirit in a church that didnt even believe in it - listening to a sermon in a Brethren Church I suddenly saw the chasm between His Holiness and my pitiful state. I was in tears for about an hour, in deep repentance, and it seemed as if my mind was being pulled apart and put back together. I had no idea what was happening. The next day Jesus made it clear that I had been baptised in the Spirit.

He is a good God with good gifts - we don't need a hand in it to help Him along.

So how do we know we have been blessed this way...

There is a fresh and permanent enabling to fulfil what we are called to do and gifts are manifest to accomplish this.

How do we get it ?

Ask and you shall receive - but in His time.

Given the challenge in this age to stand for Jesus in a hostile and deceptive world, you certainly need it.

'Seeing' what is going on spiritually is critical.

I used to help run an open home and as soon as a trouble maker stepped onto the property day or night He would alert me in the Spirit.

It is a 'plateau' experience - your whole perception of spiritual matters will permanently change.

Like Elijah's servant being shown the army in the spirit realm.

However the control of such gifts is in His hands not ours, He turns them on when needed.

If you receive a gift, always ask for wisdom in its use and give it back to Him.

So I pray according to "if we ask anything according to His Will He hears us and if we know he hears us we know that He grants the request that we ask"

So is it Gods will for you to be empowered for ministry ?

Then ask with certain confidence.

Questions welcome.

 

[lforrest]

It should be noted that Jesus was indwelled with the Spirit from birth, but this Baptism in the Spirit that He received as He was coming up out of the water was a permanent empowering upon Him for ministry.

Jesus' water baptism was "to fulfill all righteousness." Priests were required to ceremonially wash for their initiation. So this day he became high priest in the order of Malkizadech. And the descending of the Spirit upon him may have been what you say, his empowering for ministry. Because he already had the Indwelling Spirit, probably even in the womb.

 

[marks]

It is a 'plateau' experience - your whole perception of spiritual matters will permanently change.

It seems I've had various times I've felt this way, that God has filled me up with His Spirit, like you say, a plateau experience, and everything changes. I've felt that is part of growing up. I myself think that being baptized in the Holy Spirit is what unites us to Christ, and to be His body, giving us new life.

I think "being filled with the Holy Spirit" describes these times when He gives us something more for some particular service. I've seen this work in me various times through my Christian life.

You mentioned that God's presence can "dissipate", how do you mean that? I find His promise true, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you."

Much love!

 

[Carl Emerson]

It seems I've had various times I've felt this way, that God has filled me up with His Spirit, like you say, a plateau experience, and everything changes. I've felt that is part of growing up. I myself think that being baptized in the Holy Spirit is what unites us to Christ, and to be His body, giving us new life.

I think "being filled with the Holy Spirit" describes these times when He gives us something more for some particular service. I've seen this work in me various times through my Christian life.

You mentioned that God's presence can "dissipate", how do you mean that? I find His promise true, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you."

Much love!

Bless you...

Dissipate does not mean leave...

Eph 5
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit...

Sin grieves the Spirit and His presence upon the saint withdraws.

The indwelling is not affected by this loss of empowering.

I am a prodigal, born again at 13 but fell into rebellion and sin for 11 years - never lost that inner connection and that saved my life.

 

[marks]

Sin grieves the Spirit and His presence upon the saint withdraws.

I'm sorry, it seems that this above, disagrees with what you had just written,

Dissipate does not mean leave...

But if you mean that you push God from your thoughts and feel like He's left, though He hasn't left, I understand that.

If you mean that God may not use us for ministry for a season while He works some things into us, I understand that. I think that God has as many ways of working with us as there are us.

To grieve the Spirit means simply to make Him very sad! But it doesn't mean He leaves, or withdraws, or dissipates, I shouldn't think! For He is with us forever.

But when we disapprove of ourselves, if we are condemning ourselves, we can project that onto God, as if He were condemning us. And then we lose sight of His presence, and though He remain with us always, we go on as if He were not.

Sometimes we stop trusting, thinking He condemns us. Sometimes, at least I do, sometimes I shut God from my thoughts because it's simply too painful to me to consider Him while knowing myself, if you know what I mean. That kind of self-rejection is the worst for me. And based on such a horrible lie! That I'm not reconciled to God in Christ Jesus!

Much love!

 

[Carl Emerson]

The connection between the Holy Spirit and the human spirit becomes permanent when you are born again.

With Jesus this was established at birth and His human spirit was always in unity with the Holy Spirit.

The still small voice never leaves.

But empowering upon your life for ministry is a separate issue.

Falling into sin dissipates this anointing and we need to repent and be freshly filled.

Seriously if you want to be strong - take time out to read nothing but scripture and be devoted to seeking truth and making it part of your being. I did this for over 5 years and it gave me a foundation for life. Jesus loves you and wants you to be strong - consume His written word and you will be built up by His Living Word.

 

[marks]

Seriously if you want to be strong - take time out to read nothing but scripture and be devoted to seeking truth and making it part of your being. I did this for over 5 years and it gave me a foundation for life. Jesus loves you and wants you to be strong - consume His written word and you will be built up by His Living Word.

Amen!!!

A continual and constant diet of the Bible, read it, listen to it (audiobook), over and over and over so that you think the way the Bible reads.

Much love!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Live the way the Spirit leads... is better than - think the way the bible reads...

 

[marks]

Falling into sin dissipates this anointing and we need to repent and be freshly filled.

I've seen God work in so many ways, in me, in others, of course what I know best (fwtw) is me. I know God is gracious and merciful and works in strange ways, ways we do not expect. Many and different ways, I've learned to not make those sorts of catagorizations.

If one is in active pursuit of sin, they of course will not be serving the Law of Love. They are serving themself, their flesh. There is no eternal fruit in that, only shame that can make us want to hide from God.

The true repentance unto eternal life is the repudiation in the mind of who we are, were, without Christ, and our coming to know that we need Him to live. We forsake our former ways, to trust in Jesus for our salvation.

What I think most Christians think of as repentance is more like the OT version of repentance, the Hebrew for "changing direction", that is to stop the wrong act, and start to do the right act.

When we, the children of God, realize we are walking according to our flesh, as though we were unregenerate, we "put off the old man", putting on again "the new man", returning to thoughts and acts that are righteous, and are in service to God.

One of the most humbling things in my life is how I've seen God work through me while knowing what I'm like. Amazing grace!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Live the way the Spirit leads... is better than - think the way the bible reads...

It's the same thing, brother. The renewed mind is the mind of Christ, and we live the life of Christ living in us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

We can either be molded into the pattern of this world, kosmos, the "spirit of the age", or we can be transformed "by the renewing of the mind". Why is it that renewing the mind is how God transforms us? It's because we've already been made new. If any be in Christ he is a new creation . . . now all is from God.

Our mind is renewed in knowledge according to, or patterned after the image of Him that created us. As our minds are conformed to His pattern, our minds are renewed, that is, we think differently. Our thoughts match our new reality.

We are admonished to "be renewed in the spirit of your mind", and, "put on the new man", which is created in God's pattern, with righteousness, and "true holiness", or, "dedicated holiness" would be another way to understand the word there. Much like,

Romans 5:5 KJV
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Like saying, An outpouring of God's love is in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. There's a way to understand this as that this is love that pours out of us, that torrent of living water. The Holy Spirit's fruit in our lives, those character traits identified in love, and joy, and peace, and self-control, and so on.

God's Spirit remains in us always to bear fruit, always to give us victory, to lead us in triumph, and if we think accordingly we walk accordingly, because we are trusting God's promise, assuming that our life will be that way, and so it shall be, be it to you according to your faith. And God has ways to build our faith.

But I do go on!

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

Baptism in the spirit is not an optional extra for some but an essential empowering for anyone who truely seeks to walk in the purposes of Jesus fruitfully.

The reason for this is that the empowering of the Holy Spirit upon you and the manifestation of what gifts you need to serve effectively where you are planted will follow this important gift of Grace.

I will start with contextualising the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Broadly speaking the Empowering of the Spirit upon God's servants in the old covenant was temporary for a task. Further I don't believe in the OC the saints were indwelled as we are.

So being born again means permanent indwelling, however He can be grieved by our lack of communion with Him and His presence can dissipate. We then need fresh infilling after repentance...

It seems to me that the born again experience is at a time when He gives the Grace to make the decision to be fully surrendered to His Will.

But the BHS experience is in His time - not our decision but His.

Now a critical matter to understand is that JB was given a sign to recognise Messiah.

He baptising in the Jordan and was told to watch out for the ONE on whom the Spirit would come upon and remain upon.

All others would receive a temporary blessing of the presence of the Spirit but Jesus received this permanently.

It should be noted that Jesus was indwelled with the Spirit from birth, but this Baptism in the Spirit that He received as He was coming up out of the water was a permanent empowering upon Him for ministry.

It is important to note that JB was also told the Jesus would Baptise in the Holy Spirit and that what JB saw was in fact the very first occasion on which any human was baptised in the Spirit.

The BHS is not always given by the laying on of hands - many, like myself testify to receiving BHS quite independently.

In scripture when BHS was received at the time of laying on of hands, the apostles must have been hearing from the Spirit and been in sync with God's timing.

That is one of the reasons there has been confusion - leaders laying on hands without really knowing it is God's time for the individual.

Combine this with the insistence that every individual must speak in tongues and you have serious mix of half truth.

I received the Baptism in the Spirit in a church that didnt even believe in it - listening to a sermon in a Brethren Church I suddenly saw the chasm between His Holiness and my pitiful state. I was in tears for about an hour, in deep repentance, and it seemed as if my mind was being pulled apart and put back together. I had no idea what was happening. The next day Jesus made it clear that I had been baptised in the Spirit.

He is a good God with good gifts - we don't need a hand in it to help Him along.

So how do we know we have been blessed this way...

There is a fresh and permanent enabling to fulfil what we are called to do and gifts are manifest to accomplish this.

How do we get it ?

Ask and you shall receive - but in His time.

Given the challenge in this age to stand for Jesus in a hostile and deceptive world, you certainly need it.

'Seeing' what is going on spiritually is critical.

I used to help run an open home and as soon as a trouble maker stepped onto the property day or night He would alert me in the Spirit.

It is a 'plateau' experience - your whole perception of spiritual matters will permanently change.

Like Elijah's servant being shown the army in the spirit realm.

However the control of such gifts is in His hands not ours, He turns them on when needed.

If you receive a gift, always ask for wisdom in its use and give it back to Him.

So I pray according to "if we ask anything according to His Will He hears us and if we know he hears us we know that He grants the request that we ask"

So is it Gods will for you to be empowered for ministry ?

Then ask with certain confidence.

Questions welcome.

thanks for your insight

I don’t understand all this

born again happens at baptism?

there is only one baptism eph 4:5

the Christian sacrament of baptism or initiation into the new covenant

 

[lforrest]

The connection between the Holy Spirit and the human spirit becomes permanent when you are born again.

With Jesus this was established at birth and His human spirit was always in unity with the Holy Spirit.

The still small voice never leaves.

But empowering upon your life for ministry is a separate issue.

Falling into sin dissipates this anointing and we need to repent and be freshly filled.

Seriously if you want to be strong - take time out to read nothing but scripture and be devoted to seeking truth and making it part of your being. I did this for over 5 years and it gave me a foundation for life. Jesus loves you and wants you to be strong - consume His written word and you will be built up by His Living Word.

My first time seeing this translation of Eph 5:18 to dissipation.

Other debauchery causes this as well, using language like "those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." So again we see the connection between the Holy Spirit and the Kingdom of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In scripture when BHS was received at the time of laying on of hands, the apostles must have been hearing from the Spirit and been in sync with God's timing.

That is one of the reasons there has been confusion - leaders laying on hands without really knowing it is God's time for the individual.

Very thought-provoking...

They did eventually teach to lay hands suddenly on no one, however, which suggests some likely did so prematurely and learned a lesson by it. But yes, that verse also suggests a proper timing is involved, and the authorization of the Holy Spirit must be present before proceeding with the laying on of hands.

Very good. I had not thought of this before.

 

[Hidden In Him]

thanks for your insight

I don’t understand all this

born again happens at baptism?

there is only one baptism eph 4:5

the Christian sacrament of baptism or initiation into the new covenant

No. The sacrament of confirmation is what became of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit within Catholicism. It is a separate and distinct event there as well.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's the same thing, brother. The renewed mind is the mind of Christ, and we live the life of Christ living in us.

Much love!

With all due respeact I have encountered many who know the bible backwards but know nothing of hearing and obeying the Living Word Jesus.

 

[marks]

who know the bible backwards

That's not what I said . . .

Much love!

 

[Carl Emerson]

@marks

Could you kindly explain yourself further?

 

[quietthinker]

Baptism in the spirit is not an optional extra for some but an essential empowering for anyone who truely seeks to walk in the purposes of Jesus fruitfully.

The reason for this is that the empowering of the Holy Spirit upon you and the manifestation of what gifts you need to serve effectively where you are planted will follow this important gift of Grace.

I will start with contextualising the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Broadly speaking the Empowering of the Spirit upon God's servants in the old covenant was temporary for a task. Further I don't believe in the OC the saints were indwelled as we are.

So being born again means permanent indwelling, however He can be grieved by our lack of communion with Him and His presence can dissipate. We then need fresh infilling after repentance...

It seems to me that the born again experience is at a time when He gives the Grace to make the decision to be fully surrendered to His Will.

But the BHS experience is in His time - not our decision but His.

Now a critical matter to understand is that JB was given a sign to recognise Messiah.

He baptising in the Jordan and was told to watch out for the ONE on whom the Spirit would come upon and remain upon.

All others would receive a temporary blessing of the presence of the Spirit but Jesus received this permanently.

It should be noted that Jesus was indwelled with the Spirit from birth, but this Baptism in the Spirit that He received as He was coming up out of the water was a permanent empowering upon Him for ministry.

It is important to note that JB was also told the Jesus would Baptise in the Holy Spirit and that what JB saw was in fact the very first occasion on which any human was baptised in the Spirit.

The BHS is not always given by the laying on of hands - many, like myself testify to receiving BHS quite independently.

In scripture when BHS was received at the time of laying on of hands, the apostles must have been hearing from the Spirit and been in sync with God's timing.

That is one of the reasons there has been confusion - leaders laying on hands without really knowing it is God's time for the individual.

Combine this with the insistence that every individual must speak in tongues and you have serious mix of half truth.

I received the Baptism in the Spirit in a church that didnt even believe in it - listening to a sermon in a Brethren Church I suddenly saw the chasm between His Holiness and my pitiful state. I was in tears for about an hour, in deep repentance, and it seemed as if my mind was being pulled apart and put back together. I had no idea what was happening. The next day Jesus made it clear that I had been baptised in the Spirit.

He is a good God with good gifts - we don't need a hand in it to help Him along.

So how do we know we have been blessed this way...

There is a fresh and permanent enabling to fulfil what we are called to do and gifts are manifest to accomplish this.

How do we get it ?

Ask and you shall receive - but in His time.

Given the challenge in this age to stand for Jesus in a hostile and deceptive world, you certainly need it.

'Seeing' what is going on spiritually is critical.

I used to help run an open home and as soon as a trouble maker stepped onto the property day or night He would alert me in the Spirit.

It is a 'plateau' experience - your whole perception of spiritual matters will permanently change.

Like Elijah's servant being shown the army in the spirit realm.

However the control of such gifts is in His hands not ours, He turns them on when needed.

If you receive a gift, always ask for wisdom in its use and give it back to Him.

So I pray according to "if we ask anything according to His Will He hears us and if we know he hears us we know that He grants the request that we ask"

So is it Gods will for you to be empowered for ministry ?

Then ask with certain confidence.

Questions welcome.

Ohh Carl, do I smell another 'how to' thread?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Ohh Carl, do I smell another 'how to' thread?

Well when you have walked the walk it is natural to pass on the key elements.

So many teach but not from first hand experience.