My take on the Baptism in the Spirit...

[quietthinker]

We don't know that He was brief and He certainly inspired the Apostles to present the BHS as central to evangelism.

he did?

 

[Carl Emerson]

he did?

Sure... I assume you know your bible so I shouldn't have to quote verses.

 

[quietthinker]

Sure... I assume you know your bible so I shouldn't have to quote verses.

yeah, I know it.....yet the question still stands.....did he?

 

[Carl Emerson]

yeah, I know it.....yet the question still stands.....did he?

You remind me of a very good friend who has now passed on...

He said "I dont have many answers but my questions are very well organised..."

I digress...

Here are a couple of scriptures that are pivotal.

Mark 16:
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Acts 19:
It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

Acts 8
9 Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great; 10 and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, “This man is what is called the Great Power of God.” 11 And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. 13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.” 24 But Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.”

Authority, power, gifts, given to the repentant who carried the flame of the early church.

Most times but not always received by the laying on of hands.

 

[quietthinker]

Mark 16:
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Jesus didn't say much....as in volume of words.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus didn't say much....as in volume of words.

Are you sure?

John 21
24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

 

[quietthinker]

Are you sure?

John 21
24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

What're you trying to say Carl?
I thought we were talking about the direct recorded words of Jesus.

 

[Azim]

Reading the last few posts, I felt compelled to share this from John chapter 3. Jesus does not mention exactly the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", but what he tells Nicodemus, is the result of it I think.

John 3:1-8

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 

[Carl Emerson]

What're you trying to say Carl?
I thought we were talking about the direct recorded words of Jesus.

No not at all - sorry for any misunderstanding.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Reading the last few posts, I felt compelled to share this from John chapter 3. Jesus does not mention exactly the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", but what he tells Nicodemus, is the result of it I think.

John 3:1-8

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

This is a reference to being born again - first birth in water, second birth in the Spirit when receiving the indwelling presence.

Empowering for ministry usually comes later and is receiving a permanent empowering for ministry exactly as Jesus did at His Baptism.

 

[NayborBear]

first birth in water,

Of course this refers to the mother's "water breaking" right before giving birth to a new born babe, and not water baptism right?
There is and has been this "struggle for existence" between "women baring children" (let's call these wheat shall we?) and those "children of disobedience" (let's refer to these as tares, eh?) for the "control" of which direction/s and how much if any "fruit/works/efforts of faith" that any one of us produces.

These same "children of disobedience" petitioned Enoch en masse for God to listen to them via Enoch. To which they were refused a "hearing." (not actually refused, rather told to wait!)
But, being the "children of disobedience" (tares) that they are (yes?....still) did not and does not deter them from pleading their collective cause/s through every man, woman, and child "born of water."
1 Peter 2:
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood (order of Melchizedek anyone?), to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

[marks]

Empowering for ministry usually comes later and is receiving a permanent empowering for ministry exactly as Jesus did at His Baptism.

Hi Carl,

What I see in the Bible is that there is exactly one baptism, and that baptism is immersion into Jesus, His death and burial, so that we can share in His resurrection.

The later empowerments for ministry, I've seen this come more than once. Life changing fillings of the Spirit, that equip for service. But being baptized is being baptized into Jesus, to become part of His body, sharing in His death, sharing in His life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Reading the last few posts, I felt compelled to share this from John chapter 3. Jesus does not mention exactly the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", but what he tells Nicodemus, is the result of it I think.

John 3:1-8

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Hi Venksta,

I think this is consistent with Ephesians 4,

Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV
4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And Romans 6,

Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

We are immersed into Jesus to share in His death and burial, so that we can become the resurrection inner man, that spirit child of God, while we wait for the redemption of the outer man, but knowing the outer man has no power over us, who are in Christ.

Where the disciples receive fresh empowerments for ministry, I see those being called "being filled with the Spirit".

Much love!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks for the responses - something to pray about...

There are a variety of truth's intersecting and differences in definition.

However the object of the exercise is effective ministry empowered and directed by Him.

 

[Alley Oop]

Baptism in the spirit is not an optional extra for some but an essential empowering for anyone who truely seeks to walk in the purposes of Jesus fruitfully.

The reason for this is that the empowering of the Holy Spirit upon you and the manifestation of what gifts you need to serve effectively where you are planted will follow this important gift of Grace.

I will start with contextualising the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Broadly speaking the Empowering of the Spirit upon God's servants in the old covenant was temporary for a task. Further I don't believe in the OC the saints were indwelled as we are.

So being born again means permanent indwelling, however He can be grieved by our lack of communion with Him and His presence can dissipate. We then need fresh infilling after repentance...

It seems to me that the born again experience is at a time when He gives the Grace to make the decision to be fully surrendered to His Will.

But the BHS experience is in His time - not our decision but His.

Now a critical matter to understand is that JB was given a sign to recognise Messiah.

He baptising in the Jordan and was told to watch out for the ONE on whom the Spirit would come upon and remain upon.

All others would receive a temporary blessing of the presence of the Spirit but Jesus received this permanently.

It should be noted that Jesus was indwelled with the Spirit from birth, but this Baptism in the Spirit that He received as He was coming up out of the water was a permanent empowering upon Him for ministry.

It is important to note that JB was also told the Jesus would Baptise in the Holy Spirit and that what JB saw was in fact the very first occasion on which any human was baptised in the Spirit.

The BHS is not always given by the laying on of hands - many, like myself testify to receiving BHS quite independently.

In scripture when BHS was received at the time of laying on of hands, the apostles must have been hearing from the Spirit and been in sync with God's timing.

That is one of the reasons there has been confusion - leaders laying on hands without really knowing it is God's time for the individual.

Combine this with the insistence that every individual must speak in tongues and you have serious mix of half truth.

I received the Baptism in the Spirit in a church that didnt even believe in it - listening to a sermon in a Brethren Church I suddenly saw the chasm between His Holiness and my pitiful state. I was in tears for about an hour, in deep repentance, and it seemed as if my mind was being pulled apart and put back together. I had no idea what was happening. The next day Jesus made it clear that I had been baptised in the Spirit.

He is a good God with good gifts - we don't need a hand in it to help Him along.

So how do we know we have been blessed this way...

There is a fresh and permanent enabling to fulfil what we are called to do and gifts are manifest to accomplish this.

How do we get it ?

Ask and you shall receive - but in His time.

Given the challenge in this age to stand for Jesus in a hostile and deceptive world, you certainly need it.

'Seeing' what is going on spiritually is critical.

I used to help run an open home and as soon as a trouble maker stepped onto the property day or night He would alert me in the Spirit.

It is a 'plateau' experience - your whole perception of spiritual matters will permanently change.

Like Elijah's servant being shown the army in the spirit realm.

However the control of such gifts is in His hands not ours, He turns them on when needed.

If you receive a gift, always ask for wisdom in its use and give it back to Him.

So I pray according to "if we ask anything according to His Will He hears us and if we know he hears us we know that He grants the request that we ask"

So is it Gods will for you to be empowered for ministry ?

Then ask with certain confidence.

Questions welcome.

and yet, all christians of the past and most likely this generation, "sow to the flesh and reap corruption" - Gal 6:8a

all talk and no action of the spirit

 

[Alley Oop]

Thanks for the responses - something to pray about...

There are a variety of truth's intersecting and differences in definition.

However the object of the exercise is effective ministry empowered and directed by Him.

"They shall promise liberty but are the servants of corruption . . " - II Peter 2:19

 

[Carl Emerson]

"They shall promise liberty but are the servants of corruption . . " - II Peter 2:19

My style is to encourage folks to obedience by walking in 'the Way' - speaking about the good things He does - rejoicing and celebrating His goodness.

In John 17 we read that the world may know about His Glory from the way believers relate !!!

So I am not personally heavy on bringing judgement and condemnation. I think the Love of Jesus should be the primary message.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

1 Corinthians 2: 2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save JESUS CHRIST,AND HIM CRUCIFIED.

Any thing other than this brings about those who reject the BHS and how He works in the believer!

 

[Alley Oop]

My style is to encourage folks to obedience by walking in 'the Way' - speaking about the good things He does - rejoicing and celebrating His goodness.

In John 17 we read that the world may know about His Glory from the way believers relate !!!

So I am not personally heavy on bringing judgement and condemnation. I think the Love of Jesus should be the primary message.

the way to what?
christians think they are in the way of life, but die all the time.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Of course this refers to the mother's "water breaking" right before giving birth to a new born babe, and not water baptism right?
There is and has been this "struggle for existence" between "women baring children" (let's call these wheat shall we?) and those "children of disobedience" (let's refer to these as tares, eh?) for the "control" of which direction/s and how much if any "fruit/works/efforts of faith" that any one of us produces.

These same "children of disobedience" petitioned Enoch en masse for God to listen to them via Enoch. To which they were refused a "hearing." (not actually refused, rather told to wait!)
But, being the "children of disobedience" (tares) that they are (yes?....still) did not and does not deter them from pleading their collective cause/s through every man, woman, and child "born of water."
1 Peter 2:
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood (order of Melchizedek anyone?), to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Hello there,good to see you. I was Least Among Many on c.c. and liked the most of your post.
Glad you are still kicking it!