Mystery, Babylon the Great...is this you?

[brakelite]

The current ecumenical movement is established on the premise of finding peace. The last 10 years or so have seen an unprecedented increase in the pace of the gathering together under the auspices of the World Council of Churches, leaders of numerous faiths and religious persuasions...Islam, Jewish, Orthodox, Protestants both mainline and Pentecostal, Catholics, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhists,and many more...all having the purpose of establishing "peace on earth, goodwill to all men", and accomplishing this through ignoring their differences and extolling only the commonalities between them. In order to do this, all of them, except one, (more on this shortly),are having to or are willing to in the future, compromise and repudiate much of their own beliefs, many of which their forefathers were persecuted for and died for. The various denominations within Protestantism were all founded upon those who cherished what they believed to be truth, in contradistinction to what they held to be a lie, and were willing to die in defense of those beliefs. The history of their own churches are written in the blood of those who had the courage to stand in defense of conscience, but which the leaders of those same churches today are calling a 'mistake'.
The one church not changing 'one jot or tittle' of her doctrines and dogmas is the one church that proclaims all other churches as her children. She sees herself as the natural leader, the only depository of spiritual truth, the only one having the moral right to claim authority over all the others, and the one to which all the others are in fact surrendering their heart and soul to. That of course is the Roman Catholic Church, the leaders of which claim divine right power to rule the whole earth both religiously and temporally. The world has experienced her leadership before, yet modern day proponents of "peace" would ignore that particular sorrowful episode of historic tragedy, gloss over the tens of millions who died as a result, and pretend the Bishop of Rome has changed. Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Yet there are depths to this story most are ignorant of. What power is actually at work to join these former enemies in some cases, to now reach over the abyss of cultural and spiritual divide, even to reaching out to the hands of spiritualism, in order to clasp the hands of formerly diametrically opposed systems?
The answer to that lies in the leadership of most of those organizations. Like all secret societies such as skull and bones, freemasons etc, the Roman church, the church of England, and even Islam, are led by a small and select coterie of powerful individuals all with a common goal, and all sharing the very same beliefs. The goal, a one world religion and government. The shared belief? They are all Luciferian.
To be at peace with these people is to play mind games with the devil. If Truth is worth living for, it's worth dying for. If Truth contains within it the promise of eternity, then its worth defending, even fighting for. Peace at any cost is way too expensive.
Is your church or pastor leading you in this direction...or are you perhaps already there?

then know this......

Revel. 18:1 ¶ And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

 

[epostle1]

She sees herself as the natural leader, the only depository of spiritual truth, the only one having the moral right to claim authority over all the others, and the one to which all the others are in fact surrendering their heart and soul to. That of course is the Roman Catholic Church, the leaders of which claim divine right power to rule the whole earth both religiously and temporally. The world has experienced her leadership before, yet modern day proponents of "peace" would ignore that particular sorrowful episode of historic tragedy, gloss over the tens of millions who died as a result, and pretend the Bishop of Rome has changed.

For once I would like to see scholarly documentation on your psychotic hate speech. You have nothing but an opinion based on paranoid delusions of anti-Catholics.

The Catholic Church claims to have the fullness of faith, she does not claim to be the only depository source spiritual truth. That is just a lie.

The Church does not claim divine right power to rule the whole earth. Pope John Paul II was shot due to a KGB/Bulgarian conspiracy, Hitler plotted to kill or kidnap Pope Pius XI, Napoleon threw Pope Pius VII in jail for years that almost killed him, and there is a long list of Popes killed by tyrants, including the first 50 popes killed by pagan Rome. Then there are the insults from the UN as well as Obama, SO WHERE IS ALL THIS POWER TO RULE COMING FROM? In your head.

Please, quote a source for whatever ecumenical movement you are talking about, one that gives full context. You must be able to find them since you are so vehemently opposed to ecumenism that doesn't include your one man cult.

 

[heretoeternity]

Perhaps the Roman global (catholic) religion should demonstrate some obedience to the word of God, and in particular His commandments before your posts can be taken seriously Kepka...until then this religion is just another pagan based statue worshipping religion with no christianity involved...

 

[brakelite]

For once I would like to see scholarly documentation on your psychotic hate speech. You have nothing but an opinion based on paranoid delusions of anti-Catholics.

The Catholic Church claims to have the fullness of faith, she does not claim to be the only depository source spiritual truth. That is just a lie.

The Church does not claim divine right power to rule the whole earth. Pope John Paul II was shot due to a KGB/Bulgarian conspiracy, Hitler plotted to kill or kidnap Pope Pius XI, Napoleon threw Pope Pius VII in jail for years that almost killed him, and there is a long list of Popes killed by tyrants, including the first 50 popes killed by pagan Rome. Then there are the insults from the UN as well as Obama, SO WHERE IS ALL THIS POWER TO RULE COMING FROM? In your head.

Please, quote a source for whatever ecumenical movement you are talking about, one that gives full context. You must be able to find them since you are so vehemently opposed to ecumenism that doesn't include your one man cult.

Psychotic hate speech....I would fully expect that kind of reaction from you. Because you cannot deny history, you find it necessary to resort to insult and a vain attempt to suggest my message as nothing more than empty rhetoric. Your style of argument would do justice to a well trained Jesuit. I am not going to debate with you...everything I have said is documented history...easily researched to anyone with even the slightest education. You know this...you sound an educated person...no-one, unless they have spent their whole lives living in a nutshell, can be so totally ignorant of the crimes against humanity that the Vatican, over 100s of years, has been guilty of.

 

[tom55]

For once I would like to see scholarly documentation on your psychotic hate speech. You have nothing but an opinion based on paranoid delusions of anti-Catholics.

The Catholic Church claims to have the fullness of faith, she does not claim to be the only depository source spiritual truth. That is just a lie.

The Church does not claim divine right power to rule the whole earth. Pope John Paul II was shot due to a KGB/Bulgarian conspiracy, Hitler plotted to kill or kidnap Pope Pius XI, Napoleon threw Pope Pius VII in jail for years that almost killed him, and there is a long list of Popes killed by tyrants, including the first 50 popes killed by pagan Rome. Then there are the insults from the UN as well as Obama, SO WHERE IS ALL THIS POWER TO RULE COMING FROM? In your head.

Please, quote a source for whatever ecumenical movement you are talking about, one that gives full context. You must be able to find them since you are so vehemently opposed to ecumenism that doesn't include your one man cult.

Kepha31

I applaud your efforts to defend the Catholic faith, however, as you may have realized by now some on this venue are anti-Catholic. I don't mean they just don't agree with Catholic doctrine, they seem to HATE the Catholic faith and think all Catholics are going to hell. Some think individual Catholics are good but the Church is bad, if that makes sense. I don't see how you can get a good apple from a bad tree....but I digress.

Maybe you can help me out here but I have read (or heard) that the Catholic Church acknowledges other denominations as brothers in Christ and they will gain eternal salvation also? I tried a search on the Catechism web-site but I think I was entering the wrong key words in the search engine. IF my memory is correct about this then it makes me sad that they hate the Catholic Church but the Catholic Doctrine (dogma?) says to love/accept them and their beliefs.

My point is I am not going to judge the Catholics, Baptist, Methodist etc. etc. doctrines because according to Protestant beliefs we can believe whatever we want from scripture as long as we believe the Holy Spirit is guiding us and we are good people. I am not going to throw stones at you or point out the speck in your eye when I have a plank in mine. I think you would agree with me (if your an honest person) the Catholic Church needed some reforming. However, I also know that the Baptists and the Methodist and the church down the street from me started by John Doe has some bad people in it along with bad doctrine and probably need some reforming TODAY! (On a side note my father-in-law started his own church)

You said in your post: "For once I would like to see scholarly documentation..." I won't finish the rest of the sentence because I feel it was unnecessary, however, what people feel in their hearts can't be backed up by scholarly documentation. In their hearts they hate the Catholic faith and they can't back up hate with facts. I am not defending you, Kepha31, I am just trying to point out the unnecessary and unwarranted attacks by some. But I have also noticed you do push peoples buttons (as the saying goes). I have researched some of the things they have said about the Catholic Church and find MOST of it not accurate or half truthes. I think maybe they are reading anti-Catholic history books and accepting it as fact. But I suspect I am not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Respectfully.....tom55

 

[heretoeternity]

Revelation 17 and 18....it's not a matter of hating anything, it's a matter of expressing God's word on the subject of the pagan based Roman religious system...The Bible seems to have it described rather well in Revelation and in particular those two verses...now you still want to defend them?

 

[tom55]

Revelation 17 and 18....it's not a matter of hating anything, it's a matter of expressing God's word on the subject of the pagan based Roman religious system...The Bible seems to have it described rather well in Revelation and in particular those two verses...now you still want to defend them?

This is just a guess here and correct me if I am wrong (but I highly suspect I am right): You think Revelation 17 and 18 talks about the Catholic Church? And Rome is the whore of Babylon?

Did the Holy Spirit give you inspiration to decipher scripture or are you basing your beliefs on someone else's translation of scripture? If you are basing your belief on someone else's translation I am curious who you are listening too?

You anti-Catholics need to get on the same page. Peter said he was in Babylon (code word for Rome) in 1Peter and the anti-Catholics say that Peter was never in Rome that he was actually in Babylon. And then the other anti-Catholics say that Babylon of Revelations is Rome. You all hate the Catholic Church so much you will twist scripture to fit your narrative; whatever narrative it is at the time.

I am not defending THEM, I am defending THE TRUTH! There are bad Christians, that doesn't make Christ bad. There are bad Catholics, that doesn't make the Catholic Church bad. There are bad police officers, that doesn't make all police officers bad.

Respectfully...Tom55

 

[brakelite]

Revelation 17 and 18....it's not a matter of hating anything, it's a matter of expressing God's word on the subject of the pagan based Roman religious system...The Bible seems to have it described rather well in Revelation and in particular those two verses...now you still want to defend them?

This is just a guess here and correct me if I am wrong (but I highly suspect I am right): You think Revelation 17 and 18 talks about the Catholic Church? And Rome is the whore of Babylon?

Did the Holy Spirit give you inspiration to decipher scripture or are you basing your beliefs on someone else's translation of scripture? If you are basing your belief on someone else's translation I am curious who you are listening too?

You anti-Catholics need to get on the same page. Peter said he was in Babylon (code word for Rome) in 1Peter and the anti-Catholics say that Peter was never in Rome that he was actually in Babylon. And then the other anti-Catholics say that Babylon of Revelations is Rome. You all hate the Catholic Church so much you will twist scripture to fit your narrative; whatever narrative it is at the time.

I am not defending THEM, I am defending THE TRUTH! There are bad Christians, that doesn't make Christ bad. There are bad Catholics, that doesn't make the Catholic Church bad. There are bad police officers, that doesn't make all police officers bad.

Respectfully...Tom55

Hi Tom. I suspect that I am speaking for heretoeternity as well as others who may share our views, and I do hope that you also recognize this, that we are not anti-Catholic in as much as we are anti-people, or against in any way any individual Catholic who confesses membership of that communion. I grew up in the catholic faith, I am descended from a long line of Irish Catholics and I was educated by them, I played sports against and with them, went to church with them, was an altar boy in my youth, learned Latin for a number of years (most of which is long forgotten) even to the extent of knowing by heart the full mass ritual in the Latin tongue. All my friends were Catholic. Many of my friends today are either Catholic still, or used to be. So I for one hold no animosity toward any individual Catholic, be they priest or lay person. I hold no axe to grind against them or the church, I have no resentment toward any for the way I was raised and educated, and I hold many fond memories of my school years and of all those with whom I was associated. I was never abused or treated in any way other than fairly and with respect by priests and brothers, and I have no criticism against the educational standards and methods used to bring me to where I am today.
Our criticism is leveled principally at one thing, and one thing only. The system. The theological and ecclesiastical framework and foundations upon which the church is made of. These are what we are adamantly against, and will protest against until the Lord returns. Despite the errors, the absurdities, the falsehoods and lies, the deceptive dark doctrines designed to lead people away from a true relationship with Jesus, and all the superstitions that underpin so much of what we know and recognize as primarily a pagan occult system of religion, despite all that, there are within the Catholic church many who are genuine Christians living up to the light they have and therefore are accepted into the family of God.
I see my work, as an ex-Catholic now undeceived by the mountain of errors that had once bound me, to do all I can to reveal to others and to warn others of the dangers inherent within the papal system. I see also the great danger that Protestantism is now facing due to the years of relative hibernation that the Vatican has been forced to undergo as a result of being relieved of her civil power in the late 18th century.No longer having the power and authority to persecute and wage war as she once did, she now appears to protestants to have changed. Now, Protestants are reaching out over what was before a great abyss and clasping hands with her former persecutor. The problem Tom is that Rome has not changed. The doctrines and dogmas that once justified her murders, her wars, her tortures, and her condemnation of all her would disagree with her, are still held by her to be sacred. Her own profession of infallibility forbids any such change, and any claims to the contrary, such as her recent 'apologies' for her past "excesses", so called, are empty rhetoric designed to deceive and lull the world into a false sense of security.
Papal ambitions of global dominion are still very much alive and a vital part of her essential character. The result of those ambitions are precisely what God warns the world of in scripture...particularly in Daniel and Revelation, and even more precisely, in Revelation 17 and 18. But not only there, all through scripture are clues, symbols, prophecy fulfilled, all pointing unerringly to the papal system as being none other than the Antichrist. A system that displaces the truth for a lie. That usurps the authority, the throne, and the place of Jesus from the minds and hearts of people, and replaces the Lord of glory with man-made commandments, a false system of priesthood, a counterfeit system of mediatorial intercession, and a system that utterly displaces salvation by grace through faith to salvation by sacramental obedience and observance through the auspices of the bishop of Rome and the graces bestowed upon the church by Mary and the saints. If there have been changes within the relationship between Protestantism and Rome since the reformation, those changes were not in Rome.
In Revelation 13 there is a description of a beast rising out of the sea. I am sure you know it well. This beast reminds us of the four empires that were so wonderfully described to us by Daniel in chapters 2,7,8,and 11 of his book. Babylon, Media/Peria, Greece, and Rome. The beast of Revelation 13 is a composite beast, or empire, a beast comprising of the remnants of those four empires of history. And history reveals to any casual observer that each one of those empires had particular characteristics, and passed on a number of those characteristics to the conquering empires. The Roman empire, represented by the iron in the statue of Daniel 2 and the terrible all-conquering beast of Daniel 7, does not disappear as many teach, but continues all the way down to the second coming, changing into another form...it mingled itself with clay...rather than a purely pagan state power, it morphed into a pseudo Christian/pagan state union. This was the falling away spoken of by Paul in 2 Thess. As the bishops of Rome began meddling in politics when the Roman seat of power was removed to Constantinople, creating a vacuum, spiritual adultery with the kings and queens of the earth became standard practice for the Roman church, enforcing her errors and superstitions upon other churches and individuals, and will carry on that crime when the pope takes the throne as head of the soon coming NWO.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

 

[brakelite]

The current practices and doctrines of the Roman church are rooted in Babylon, but for the most part are Grecian in nature . This is why the beast of Rev.13 is described as a leopard. As a young man growing up within the church, I can now appreciate the philosophy and the mindset inherent within the Catholic church.Especially those of Greek origin, which are too comlicated to go into here. But two things from experience I remember very very well.
1. The almost complete absence of Jesus , apart from a brief mention in the odd sermon and the baby at Christmas and the corpse at Easter, from daily religious life. He wasn't spoken of in conversation, He wasn't referenced in counsel, He wasn't prayed to in meetings. Catholicism does not revolve around Jesus. It revolves around the services, the priesthood, the pope, Mary, and the saints. Your personal focus on the above all or part depended on the culture you were in, or the particular order of priesthood that taught you. This is all perfectly 'antichrist' philosophy.
2. Heaven was never a place where you walked, talked, felt, tasted, touched, saw, sensed or smelled in any way. It was never described as a place to go to, but a state of "being". The same with hell. Hell was not a place where body and soul are destroyed as per Hebraic teaching, but a place to be in torment, more psychologically as being absent from God. This was a Greek belief carried on into Catholicism and is accepted for the most part by Protestantism today. The false idea of heaven denies the promises and truth of God, the false idea of hell denies the character and purposes of God.

 

[tom55]

[SIZE=medium]brakelite said:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Hi Tom. I suspect that I am speaking for heretoeternity as well as others who may share our views, and I do hope that you also recognize this, that we are not anti-Catholic in as much as we are anti-people, or against in any way any individual Catholic who confesses membership of that communion.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Your statement is confusing to me. You say you are not anti-Catholic but everything you articulate in your writings is anti-Catholic. You also say you are not against the individual Catholic but if the individual Catholic is a follower of the Catholic doctrine and you are against Catholic doctrine then wouldn’t you be against the individual Catholic who follows that doctrine? You say you are anti-people(?) which means you are against all humanity? I suspect you are not against anyone that agrees with your theory so you really are not anti-people. Just anti-anyone who doesn't think like you. Can you see my confusion?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium] I grew up in the catholic faith, I am descended from a long line of Irish Catholics and I was educated by them, I played sports against and with them, went to church with them, was an altar boy in my youth, learned Latin for a number of years (most of which is long forgotten) even to the extent of knowing by heart the full mass ritual in the Latin tongue. All my friends were Catholic. Many of my friends today are either Catholic still, or used to be. So I for one hold no animosity toward any individual Catholic, be they priest or lay person. I hold no axe to grind against them or the church, I have no resentment toward any for the way I was raised and educated, and I hold many fond memories of my school years and of all those with whom I was associated. I was never abused or treated in any way other than fairly and with respect by priests and brothers, and I have no criticism against the educational standards and methods used to bring me to where I am today.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]You say you have “[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]no criticism against the educational standards and methods used to bring me to where I am today[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]”. Since you are being very critical of the system that creates Catholics (members, priests, bishops and Popes) then you DO have criticism of their “standards and methods”. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Our criticism is leveled principally at one thing, and one thing only. The system. The theological and ecclesiastical framework and foundations upon which the church is made of. These are what we are adamantly against, and will protest against until the Lord returns. Despite the errors, the absurdities, the falsehoods and lies, the deceptive dark doctrines designed to lead people away from a true relationship with Jesus, and all the superstitions that underpin so much of what we know and recognize as primarily a pagan occult system of religion, despite all that, there are within the Catholic church many who are genuine Christians living up to the light they have and therefore are accepted into the family of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I am truly trying to understand what you are saying. Now you are saying you ARE criticizing their system? The same system that creates and indoctrinates individual Catholics? You said there are good Catholics who are genuine Christians; even though they follow the corrupt doctrines. How can they be “genuine Christians” if they are following a “pagan occult system of religion” based on “deceptive dark doctrines?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I see my work, as an ex-Catholic now undeceived by the mountain of errors that had once bound me, to do all I can to reveal to others and to warn others of the dangers inherent within the papal system. I see also the great danger that Protestantism is now facing due to the years of relative hibernation that the Vatican has been forced to undergo as a result of being relieved of her civil power in the late 18th century.No longer having the power and authority to persecute and wage war as she once did, she now appears to protestants to have changed. Now, Protestants are reaching out over what was before a great abyss and clasping hands with her former persecutor. The problem Tom is that Rome has not changed. The doctrines and dogmas that once justified her murders, her wars, her tortures, and her condemnation of all her would disagree with her, are still held by her to be sacred. Her own profession of infallibility forbids any such change, and any claims to the contrary, such as her recent 'apologies' for her past "excesses", so called, are empty rhetoric designed to deceive and lull the world into a false sense of security.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]You say the Vatican was “…[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]relieved of her civil power in the late 18th century. No longer having the power and authority to persecute and wage war as she once did,…” [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]But in a different post you said they are responsible for [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]“[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the Crimean war, the civil war in the US……both world wars, the Vietnam war, can all be wholly or partly laid at the feet of the Vatican. As well as assassinations of presidents, (Lincoln and Kennedy).” [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Didn’t all those happen AFTER the Vatican was “relieved of her civil power”? How does the Vatican get credit for all those wars and assassination’s if, as you alleged, they no longer had the “power and authority to persecute and wage war”? Can you see my confusion??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Papal ambitions of global dominion are still very much alive and a vital part of her essential character. The result of those ambitions are precisely what God warns the world of in scripture...particularly in Daniel and Revelation, and even more precisely, in Revelation 17 and 18. But not only there, all through scripture are clues, symbols, prophecy fulfilled, all pointing unerringly to the papal system as being none other than the Antichrist. A system that displaces the truth for a lie. That usurps the authority, the throne, and the place of Jesus from the minds and hearts of people, and replaces the Lord of glory with man-made commandments, a false system of priesthood, a counterfeit system of mediatorial intercession, and a system that utterly displaces salvation by grace through faith to salvation by sacramental obedience and observance through the auspices of the bishop of Rome and the graces bestowed upon the church by Mary and the saints. If there have been changes within the relationship between Protestantism and Rome since the reformation, those changes were not in Rome.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So according to your theory the Catholics that follow the teachings of the Catholic Church are still good Christians that will go to heaven but the Catholic Church (papal system) is the Antichrist? Those individual Catholics are following a system that “displaces the truth for a lie” but they will still go to heaven? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]In Revelation 13 there is a description of a beast rising out of the sea. I am sure you know it well. This beast reminds us of the four empires that were so wonderfully described to us by Daniel in chapters 2,7,8,and 11 of his book. Babylon, Media/Peria, Greece, and Rome. The beast of Revelation 13 is a composite beast, or empire, a beast comprising of the remnants of those four empires of history. And history reveals to any casual observer that each one of those empires had particular characteristics, and passed on a number of those characteristics to the conquering empires. The Roman empire, represented by the iron in the statue of Daniel 2 and the terrible all-conquering beast of Daniel 7, does not disappear as many teach, but continues all the way down to the second coming, changing into another form...it mingled itself with clay...rather than a purely pagan state power, it morphed into a pseudo Christian/pagan state union. This was the falling away spoken of by Paul in 2 Thess. As the bishops of Rome began meddling in politics when the Roman seat of power was removed to Constantinople, creating a vacuum, spiritual adultery with the kings and queens of the earth became standard practice for the Roman church, enforcing her errors and superstitions upon other churches and individuals, and will carry on that crime when the pope takes the throne as head of the soon coming NWO.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Was this revealed to you by the Holy Spirit or are you have you accepted someone else's theory? If you have accepted someone else's theory I am curious who that person is so I can read their writings. (I am sincere about this)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Tom55[/SIZE]

 

[heretoeternity]

Revelation 17 and 18, describes a scarlet and purple beast with a woman (religious organization) riding on it...now what religious organization is adorned in scarlet and purple? What religious system claims to be "christian" but follows none of the first four of the ten commandments? Which religious system does not follow the teachings of Jesus, yet says it is "christian"? Which religious system disobeys the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels? Which religious system has "daughters" which follow in it's footsteps without the statues, but blindly follow it's other doctrines and days? The list goes on and on but if you answered the Roman religious system, you got it right on...

 

[tom55]

Revelation 17 and 18, describes a scarlet and purple beast with a woman (religious organization) riding on it...now what religious organization is adorned in scarlet and purple? What religious system claims to be "christian" but follows none of the first four of the ten commandments? Which religious system does not follow the teachings of Jesus, yet says it is "christian"? Which religious system disobeys the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels? Which religious system has "daughters" which follow in it's footsteps without the statues, but blindly follow it's other doctrines and days? The list goes on and on but if you answered the Roman religious system, you got it right on...

Due to the hate in your heart for over 1 billion fellow Christians I know there is no convincing you that your theory (or whomever came up with this theory that you are blindly following) is more than likely wrong. Did the Holy Spirit (God) reveal to you the translation of Rev. 17 and 18 or are you reading the divine revelations of another person??

 

[Barrd]

Due to the hate in your heart for over 1 billion fellow Christians I know there is no convincing you that your theory (or whomever came up with this theory that you are blindly following) is more than likely wrong. Did the Holy Spirit (God) reveal to you the translation of Rev. 17 and 18 or are you reading the divine revelations of another person??

Tom, my friend, I think they are trying to tell you that they got their belief about the RCC from the Bible.

Now, I hold absolutely no ill will in my heart toward individual Catholics, and I think you know that. I see Kepha as a friend and a brother, even though I do not agree with much of what he believes.

But I'm afraid I agree with Brakelite....it is a corrupt system. I'm as sure as I can be that, if the Vatican could somehow attain to the power she once had, she would, once again, go back to her old ways...and folks like me and you would have to hide ourselves for fear of being persecuted for heresy.

 

[tom55]

Tom, my friend, I think they are trying to tell you that they got their belief about the RCC from the Bible.
Now, I hold absolutely no ill will in my heart toward individual Catholics, and I think you know that. I see Kepha as a friend and a brother, even though I do not agree with much of what he believes.
But I'm afraid I agree with Brakelite....it is a corrupt system. I'm as sure as I can be that, if the Vatican could somehow attain to the power she once had, she would, once again, go back to her old ways...and folks like me and you would have to hide ourselves for fear of being persecuted for heresy.

They got that belief by decrypting Revelations 17 and 18 or they are reading the decryption of someone else. Reading is one thing; understanding is another.

If Kepha (Catholics) is wrong about scripture and you have proven him wrong and he still won't listen to you shouldn't you treat him like a pagan or tax collector? Shouldn't you follow scripture? For if you don't follow scripture are you not just like Kepha (or all other Catholics)?

Our history books teach us the early Protestant church persecuted (killed people) during the inquisitions also. Not just the Catholic Church!! Besides that we have more to fear from Islam than Catholicism. As you know all Churches have corrupt people in them. That doesn't make their entire church or doctrine corrupt. Besides that how do we know if the Baptist doctrine is right and the Catholic doctrine is wrong?

TOM

 

[heretoeternity]

Due to the hate in your heart for over 1 billion fellow Christians I know there is no convincing you that your theory (or whomever came up with this theory that you are blindly following) is more than likely wrong. Did the Holy Spirit (God) reveal to you the translation of Rev. 17 and 18 or are you reading the divine revelations of another person??

It appears God has not opened your eyes and mind to the truth of His holy word in Revelation and in particular His revealing of the false "christianity" which has perverted the word of God to fit it's own pagan based roots...it is clear to those of us who have prayed for understanding and have received it....
One only has to look at the recent past in N Ireland, when Roman (global/catholic) had war with the protestants (it's daughters) there for control of the spirituality there...many innocents were killed in the name of their brand of "christianity" Does that sound "christian" to you?

 

[Barrd]

They got that belief by decrypting Revelations 17 and 18 or they are reading the decryption of someone else. Reading is one thing; understanding is another.

If Kepha (Catholics) is wrong about scripture and you have proven him wrong and he still won't listen to you shouldn't you treat him like a pagan or tax collector? Shouldn't you follow scripture? For if you don't follow scripture are you not just like Kepha (or all other Catholics)?

Our history books teach us the early Protestant church persecuted (killed people) during the inquisitions also. Not just the Catholic Church!! Besides that we have more to fear from Islam than Catholicism. As you know all Churches have corrupt people in them. That doesn't make their entire church or doctrine corrupt. Besides that how do we know if the Baptist doctrine is right and the Catholic doctrine is wrong?

TOM

Tom, when did you ever hear me say that the Baptist doctrine is right?
For that matter, when did you ever hear me name any denomination, and claim that their doctrine was "right"?

I think you and I both know that there is not one single denomination on the planet that doesn't have at least some small error or other in it's doctrine...some more than others.

Kepha believes in the same Savior that I believe in. He believes that Jesus is the Author of our Salvation, and that He alone can give us eternal life.
He believes that we are to love one another as our Lord also loves us.
In other words, we agree on what is important.
Can't we just enjoy each other's fellowship, without insisting that we all must be "right"?

But you know....having spent a bit of time talking with Kepha, I suspect that, if the Vatican were ever to attain to the power it once had, he'd be hiding in the basement right beside me.

 

[tom55]

Tom, when did you ever hear me say that the Baptist doctrine is right?
For that matter, when did you ever hear me name any denomination, and claim that their doctrine was "right"?
I was only using "Baptist" as an example. I should have put XXX doctrine and let you fill in the blank.

I think you and I both know that there is not one single denomination on the planet that doesn't have at least some small error or other in it's doctrine...some more than others.
So this means no one has the truth? Even though the bible is supposed to be the truth? Sounds like God abandoned us and told us to figure it out on our own and we will never know if we got it right? I don't think he abandoned us.

Kepha believes in the same Savior that I believe in. He believes that Jesus is the Author of our Salvation, and that He alone can give us eternal life.
He believes that we are to love one another as our Lord also loves us.
In other words, we agree on what is important.
Can't we just enjoy each other's fellowship, without insisting that we all must be "right"?
But scripture says if your brother is wrong and he won't listen to you or the Church (which is the pillar and ground of truth) treat him as a pagan or a tax collector. It doesn't say enjoy their fellowship. It says the opposite. Are you going to disobey scripture? (second time I have asked you this)

But you know....having spent a bit of time talking with Kepha, I suspect that, if the Vatican were ever to attain to the power it once had, he'd be hiding in the basement right beside me.
If Islam obtains the power the Vatican once had....We will be dead!! Stop making silly statements about our fellow Christians and see the real threat knocking on your basement door! And why don't you ever say the same silly things about your Protestant brothers? They did they same things the Catholics did.

 

[Barrd]

Tom, when did you ever hear me say that the Baptist doctrine is right?
For that matter, when did you ever hear me name any denomination, and claim that their doctrine was "right"?
I was only using "Baptist" as an example. I should have put XXX doctrine and let you fill in the blank.

I think you and I both know that there is not one single denomination on the planet that doesn't have at least some small error or other in it's doctrine...some more than others.
So this means no one has the truth? Even though the bible is supposed to be the truth? Sounds like God abandoned us and told us to figure it out on our own and we will never know if we got it right? I don't think he abandoned us.

Kepha believes in the same Savior that I believe in. He believes that Jesus is the Author of our Salvation, and that He alone can give us eternal life.
He believes that we are to love one another as our Lord also loves us.
In other words, we agree on what is important.
Can't we just enjoy each other's fellowship, without insisting that we all must be "right"?
But scripture says if your brother is wrong and he won't listen to you or the Church (which is the pillar and ground of truth) treat him as a pagan or a tax collector. It doesn't say enjoy their fellowship. It says the opposite. Are you going to disobey scripture? (second time I have asked you this)

But you know....having spent a bit of time talking with Kepha, I suspect that, if the Vatican were ever to attain to the power it once had, he'd be hiding in the basement right beside me.
If Islam obtains the power the Vatican once had....We will be dead!! Stop making silly statements about our fellow Christians and see the real threat knocking on your basement door! And why don't you ever say the same silly things about your Protestant brothers? They did they same things the Catholics did.

The problem, as I see it, is that too many people are looking for an earthly authority...
In the church, in some preacher, in some organization...
The only authority we need is Jesus Christ. He is the Head of the Church, He is our Bridegroom, He is our King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
For some reason, we keep trying to shove Him off of the throne so that we can put some man, or some man-made doctrine, up there instead.
And, when we manage to succeed in that effort, we get things like the inquisitions....whether Catholic or Protestant....or, may Allah help us, Muslim...or any other "religion" that might raise it's ugly head.

The Jews are still looking for their Messiah. Of course, they kicked God off the throne long ago:
1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

And, of course, you know the rest of the story. It took three generations to tear Israel apart.

And this is why we have so many "denominations"....we keep looking for human authority, when we already have a Lord and a King over us....

 

[tom55]

The problem, as I see it, is that too many people are looking for an earthly authority...
In the church, in some preacher, in some organization...
The only authority we need is Jesus Christ. He is the Head of the Church, He is our Bridegroom, He is our King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
For some reason, we keep trying to shove Him off of the throne so that we can put some man, or some man-made doctrine, up there instead.
And, when we manage to succeed in that effort, we get things like the inquisitions....whether Catholic or Protestant....or, may Allah help us, Muslim...or any other "religion" that might raise it's ugly head.

And this is why we have so many "denominations"....we keep looking for human authority, when we already have a Lord and a King over us....

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

So Jesus gave ONLY the apostles the authority to "make disciples of all nations", baptismal authority and teaching authority?
Once the apostles died the authority to do these things died with them?
You may believe Jesus abandoned us and the authority he passed down to his apostles ended but Jesus says different. He said he will be with us until the end of the age.

You have made several comments about being baptized. By who's authority were you baptized? Jesus clearly states he passed his baptismal authority onto the apostles. The apostles passed it to someone else and they passed it to someone else and so on and so on until The Barrd was baptized 2000 years later. So the person who baptized you got that authority somehow and from someone? Didn't they?

The problem and the reason why we have thousands of different denominations is because no one wants to accept authority! Jesus passed his authority down to the church and he said the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Scripture says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Now we just have to figure out what church he was talking about.

 

[Skitnik]

I read Revelation 17-18 and I see USA all over it! I find nothing that does not fit USA!

I wish the only country I am citizen of nothing bad but I am afraid I am right about my suspicions.

We do not kill saints? Really? How about 60+ million of unborn who did not sin and therefor are saints. How about all USA started and backed wars that kills scores of Christians from Yugoslavia to Iraq and all over Middle East?