Understanding Who and What is the Babylon of Revelation.

[Hobie]

Revelation 17:1-5
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

The physical city of Babylon was originally built by Nimrod after the flood and was by the Euphrates River. The name Babylon came from the Tower of Babel that was constructed there and means "the portal of the gods", or "gate of the gods". Jesus is the spiritual husband of the church therefore if a church unites with or receives favors of one who is not her husband, she commits spiritual adultery.

Here we see Babylon is called the “great whore” who committed fornication or spiritual adultery. The “many waters” she sits on are the countless people she has deceived and “made drunk” with her doctrines. The “kings of the earth” represent civil powers or the power of the state. When churches lose the power of the gospel to transform hearts and lives they turn to the power of the state to support their doctrines and thus they commit spiritual fornication.

We see this repeated in many verses in Revelation...
Revelation 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 16:19
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

The name Babylon or "the portal of the gods" in a sense portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to Gods plan. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. Numerous verses in the book of Revelation warn against Babylon, and admonish Gods people to come out of Babylon.
Revelation 18:1-5
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

The unclean and hateful birds reference the counterfeit spirit of demons that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, John hears "another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." This warns Gods people not to become entangled with this "Mystery Babylon" so they are not "partakers of her sins" or her abominations to avoid the "her plagues".

The Babylon is not the physical Babylon but spiritual Babylon as we see even Peter used it.
1 Peter 5:13
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter wrote these words when literal Babylon no longer existed. The woman that rides the beast also has all the identifying features as we see, "the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication". The great prostitute is obviously not a good woman and has issues that go beyond just a few mistakes. Just as ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will end-time Babylon rely on the support of the masses to enforce her plans. So must discern and understand who and what is this spiritual Babylon?

 

[Zachariah.]

Revelation 17:1-5
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

The physical city of Babylon was originally built by Nimrod after the flood and was by the Euphrates River. The name Babylon came from the Tower of Babel that was constructed there and means "the portal of the gods", or "gate of the gods". Jesus is the spiritual husband of the church therefore if a church unites with or receives favors of one who is not her husband, she commits spiritual adultery.

Here we see Babylon is called the “great whore” who committed fornication or spiritual adultery. The “many waters” she sits on are the countless people she has deceived and “made drunk” with her doctrines. The “kings of the earth” represent civil powers or the power of the state. When churches lose the power of the gospel to transform hearts and lives they turn to the power of the state to support their doctrines and thus they commit spiritual fornication.

We see this repeated in many verses in Revelation...
Revelation 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 16:19
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

The name Babylon or "the portal of the gods" in a sense portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to Gods plan. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. Numerous verses in the book of Revelation warn against Babylon, and admonish Gods people to come out of Babylon.
Revelation 18:1-5
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


The unclean and hateful birds reference the counterfeit spirit of demons that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, John hears "another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." This warns Gods people not to become entangled with this "Mystery Babylon" so they are not "partakers of her sins" or her abominations to avoid the "her plagues".

The Babylon is not the physical Babylon but spiritual Babylon as we see even Peter used it.
1 Peter 5:13
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter wrote these words when literal Babylon no longer existed. The woman that rides the beast also has all the identifying features as we see, "the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication". The great prostitute is obviously not a good woman and has issues that go beyond just a few mistakes. Just as ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will end-time Babylon rely on the support of the masses to enforce her plans. So must discern and understand who and what is this spiritual Babylon?

When Revelation is using the word Babylon, it's a reference to the totalitarian Roman empire. Which was dominating the world at this stage. If people where court writing such things about Rome, they would have been put to the cross. This is why they use the term Babylon.

Biblical scholars believe that "Babylon" is a metaphor for the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians, before the Edict of Milan in 313.

Yes it means evil. But more specifically for the time, Rome. If we where to translate it for today's time, Babylon would be a reference to world Governments.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 17:1-5
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

The physical city of Babylon was originally built by Nimrod after the flood and was by the Euphrates River. The name Babylon came from the Tower of Babel that was constructed there and means "the portal of the gods", or "gate of the gods". Jesus is the spiritual husband of the church therefore if a church unites with or receives favors of one who is not her husband, she commits spiritual adultery.

Here we see Babylon is called the “great whore” who committed fornication or spiritual adultery. The “many waters” she sits on are the countless people she has deceived and “made drunk” with her doctrines. The “kings of the earth” represent civil powers or the power of the state. When churches lose the power of the gospel to transform hearts and lives they turn to the power of the state to support their doctrines and thus they commit spiritual fornication.

We see this repeated in many verses in Revelation...
Revelation 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 16:19
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

The name Babylon or "the portal of the gods" in a sense portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to Gods plan. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. Numerous verses in the book of Revelation warn against Babylon, and admonish Gods people to come out of Babylon.
Revelation 18:1-5
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


The unclean and hateful birds reference the counterfeit spirit of demons that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, John hears "another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." This warns Gods people not to become entangled with this "Mystery Babylon" so they are not "partakers of her sins" or her abominations to avoid the "her plagues".

The Babylon is not the physical Babylon but spiritual Babylon as we see even Peter used it.
1 Peter 5:13
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter wrote these words when literal Babylon no longer existed. The woman that rides the beast also has all the identifying features as we see, "the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication". The great prostitute is obviously not a good woman and has issues that go beyond just a few mistakes. Just as ancient Babylon depended on the Euphrates River for its existence, so will end-time Babylon rely on the support of the masses to enforce her plans. So must discern and understand who and what is this spiritual Babylon?

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[ewq1938]

Babylon means confusion. The Babylon of Revelation is not a literal city, and it is not Jerusalem. It is a global concept comprised of all the deceived/marked people of the world that worship the false Christ. This is why the city is portrayed as a whore, common to be those that worship a false god. It is they which are Babylon and they which receive of the plagues. God isn't angry with buildings or cities but the people. The seven mountains on which Babylon sits represents the world. I believe the 7 is either the seven continents or possibly something like the G7, 7 major governments of the world. Either way it's the world of the deceived that make up Babylon.

 

[Randy Kluth]

In my view, the Great Whore, Mystery Babylon, is Rome.

 

[Marty fox]

Let’s see who Jesus says she is

Revelation 18
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Matthew 23
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”

 

[Timtofly]

In my view, the Great Whore, Mystery Babylon, is Rome.

Why would Jesus set up His throne in Rome?

People really are not getting the point that at the Second Coming Jesus sets up His throne. Then after the final harvest, Satan may be handed over that throne. Then you claim that seat of power all takes place in Rome? Evidently this point remains a mystery up until it actually happens. Obviously no one seems to be able to figure it out beforehand.

Revelation 17 seems to be math that many cannot navigate.

This beast only has 7 heads, and the 7th head is the 8th kingdom. None of the heads are the 7th Kingdom. 5 have fallen all in the past. Only the 6th one is viable, and this head has a mortal wound, that no one seems to understand why. So they make up all sorts of imaginable scenarios. Many of which involve Rome or Europe. When the city in question is where Jesus is announced King of. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom announced at the 7th Trumpet. How can this be disputed?

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Jesus has been ruling from Jerusalem, since the Second Coming. Now at the 7th Trumpet all nations have been dealt with and the only people left in those nations are under the direct kingship of Jesus. That is Jesus as the head of a one world government. If there is a one world government at this time, this verse is declaring Jesus the Supreme Ruler.

That is the only reasonable explanation of who the 7th Kingdom is. There certainly is never mentioned a 9th Kingdom. Revelation 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, and 18 are all talking about events surrounding the 7th Trumpet. If Satan is not given 42 months per Revelation 13, then Revelation 14 is the end of life as we know it. Jesus as King still reigns over all nations for a thousand years. Satan is still bound for those thousand years. There is no 8th kingdom.

Jesus is the central theme of Revelation, because it is Jesus being revealed. Why do so many focus on an AC that John does not even include by that term in the entire book? There is currently no one nation in control of evey other nation. Even when Rome was the 4th head, can it be said that Rome was the head of a one world government?

Quite literally, according to the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, Jesus Himself will be the first true one world government leader. So trying to put Rome back into any sort of power structure seems ridiculous.

Mystery Babylon only takes place in Jerusalem if Jesus hands over the throne to Satan. Of course Revelation is not spelled out like that, because most read between the lines anyway.

But a big clue is this use of terms in Revelation 13:

"And it was given unto him."

"which he had power to do"

"And he had power to give life"

Satan does not have free will to do as he pleases. That is what we learned from the book of Job. Only God can grant Satan all this power over the earth. And all this power comes chronologically after the 7th Trumpet sounds. Many voice their opinion that it is ridiculous to say that Jesus would give up this kingdom within hours or days of just getting it, yet that is explicitly what John writes.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

All 7 kings are human, including Jesus Christ. But the beast, Satan was, is not, is part of the 7, ie the dragon, the sea beast, and the scarlet colored beast, all former human governments starting with Babylon in Daniel 2. So the 7th Kingdom must happen, but only for a short space if Satan is allowed as the 8th kingdom. That is why Jerusalem becomes mystery Babylon, the seat of Satan's own abomination of desolation empire.

In Revelation 12, we see Satan's time is very short. Literally 3.5 days. But if Jesus is told His kingdom only last those 3.5 days, then the 7th Kingdom is cut short, but resumes after 42 months. So that is why Jesus and all His final harvest of Israel and every other nation, his faithful citizens, all leave on white horses obviously, since they return on those same white horses 42 months later. From Satan's viewpoint they were overcome. From God's perspective, they overcame Satan.

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

They all are waiting on the sea of glass during Satan's 42 months. The only ones left on the earth are those with the mark and those beheaded to avoid the mark. Which by the way, is the only reason Satan even gets 42 months. God points out to Satan that even when given total reign of the earth, many will reject Satan, and chop off their heads as a testimony to Jesus Christ.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Let’s see who Jesus says she is

Revelation 18
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Matthew 23
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”

Greetings,
The whore is false religion.

 

[Truthnightmare]

We can go step by step to find our answer….

Rev 17:9
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (KJV)​

Below we see that this woman sits upon the peoples, all the peoples (the sea — the waters = the peoples):

Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (KJV)​

Mystery Babylon is that woman:

Rev 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication [religious adultery]. (KJV)​

Scripture then tells us that the woman is the great city (Jerusalem):

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV)​

We see Jerusalem referred to as that great city even in the Old Testament:

Jer 22:8
8 And many nations shall pass by this city, and they shall say every man to his neighbour, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this great city? (KJV)​

Finally, Scriptures nails down, without any room for doubt, the exact location and thus the identity of the great city:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (KJV)​

And after the end of this age, after the great Judgment Day, after the old things are done away with, after all evil and evil doers are cast into the Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as 'going to hell'), the new Heaven and new earth (commonly referred to as Heaven) is identified as the great city Jerusalem (rejuvenated and with God present):

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (KJV)​

 

[Zao is life]

The Babylon is not the physical Babylon but spiritual Babylon as we see even Peter used it.

New Jerusalem
And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife. (Revelation 21:9).

Babylon the Great
And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials came and talked with me, saying to me, Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on many waters. (Revelation 17:1).

New Jerusalem is a city of gold, precious stones and pearls (Revelation 21:10-11 & 18-21).

The harlot is "..gilded with gold, precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her FORNICATION" (Revelation 17:4).

In the Revelation, only:-

(1) Jezebel of the church at Thyatira & her followers; as well as
(2) the kings of the earth; and
(3) the harlot

are said to commit fornication.

"The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues." (catholic/universal).

"And the woman whom you saw is the great city which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth." Rev.17:15, 18.

Who is the ruler of the kings of the earth?

"Jesus Christ the faithful Witness, the First-born from the dead and the Ruler of the kings of the earth." Rev.1:5

"And the kings of the earth who have committed fornication and lived in luxury with her will weep for her, and will wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning" Rev 18:9

The kings of the earth who committed fornication with the harlot cannot be the same as the 10 kings of the beast who "will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire." Rev.17:16.

It's the beast that the woman is sitting on that has the seven heads, not the woman.

The woman is the capital city of a universal entity (peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues). Rev.17:15, 18.

So the Revelation is comparing New Jerusalem with the harlot, the kings of the earth ruled by Christ with the kings of the earth whose capital city is the harlot, the faithful kings of the earth with the kings of the earth who commit fornication with the harlot.

How can we be sure? We can be sure because in the Revelation, only:-

(1) Jezebel of the church at Thyatira & her followers; as well as
(2) the kings of the earth; and
(3) the harlot

are said to commit fornication; and

Throughout the Bible only God's elect who commit fornication with foreign gods and religious worship are called a harlot. The beast and its 10 kings are not even considered part of the elect. So they cannot be a harlot.​

New Jerusalem is a city in the Revelation - but it's universal (catholic), made up of people from many nations, tribes and tongues.

The harlot is a city in the Revelation, and it sits on many waters which are likewise people, nations, multitudes and tongues.

That's as much as I understand regarding the harlot. I don't know whether it's referring to a literal city, or not. New Jerusalem is not a literal city located in one place on the map, but this fact does not preclude the possibility that since the harlot is a counterfeit New Jerusalem, it may be a literal city, built on a rock that is not Christ, nor the rock of Peter's faith in Christ.

But we are not told whether or not the harlot is a literal city.

The New Testament harlot does not have to be the same as the Old Testament harlot. The first harlot may be a type of the last harlot.

 

[Truthnightmare]

New Jerusalem
And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife. (Revelation 21:9).

Babylon the Great
And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials came and talked with me, saying to me, Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on many waters. (Revelation 17:1).

New Jerusalem is a city of gold, precious stones and pearls (Revelation 21:10-11 & 18-21).

The harlot is "..gilded with gold, precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her FORNICATION" (Revelation 17:4).

"The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues." (catholic/universal).

"And the woman whom you saw is the great city which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth." Rev.17:15, 18.

Who is the ruler of the kings of the earth?

"Jesus Christ the faithful Witness, the First-born from the dead and the Ruler of the kings of the earth." Rev.1:5

"And the kings of the earth who have committed fornication and lived in luxury with her will weep for her, and will wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning" Rev 18:9

The kings of the earth who committed fornication with the harlot cannot be the same as the 10 kings of the beast who "will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire." Rev.17:16.

It's the beast that the woman is sitting on that has the seven heads, not the woman.

The woman is the capital city of a universal entity (peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues). Rev.17:15, 18.

So the Revelation is comparing New Jerusalem with the harlot, the kings of the earth ruled by Christ with the kings of the earth whose capital city is the harlot, the faithful kings of the earth with the kings of the earth who commit fornication with the harlot.

How can we be sure? We can be sure because in the Revelation, only:-

(1) Jezebel of the church at Thyatira & her followers; as well as
(2) the kings of the earth; and
(3) the harlot

are said to commit fornication; and

Throughout the Bible only God's elect who commit fornication with foreign gods and religious worship are called a harlot. The beast and its 10 kings are not even considered part of the elect. So they cannot be a harlot.​

New Jerusalem is a city in the Revelation - but it's universal (catholic), made up of people from many nations, tribes and tongues.

The harlot is a city in the Revelation, and it sits on many waters which are likewise people, nations, multitudes and tongues.

That's as much as I understand regarding the harlot. I don't know whether it's referring to a literal city, or not. New Jerusalem is not a literal city located in one place on the map, but this fact does not preclude the possibility that since the harlot is a counterfeit New Jerusalem, it may be a literal city, built on a rock that is not Christ, and not the rock of Peter's faith in Christ.

Inserting Catholicism into this subject only muddies the water.

 

[Zao is life]

Inserting Catholicism into this subject only muddies the water.

No it does not.

Jerusalem does not sit on many waters made up of people, nations, multitudes and tongues. Or rule over the kings of the earth that Christ is said to be the Ruler of in the first chapter of the Revelation.

The New Testament harlot does not have to be the same as the Old Testament harlot. The first harlot may be a type of the last harlot.

Rejecting the possibility of the Old Testament harlot you mentioned or rejecting any New Testament harlot is muddying the water.

Deciding we "know" which city the harlot is referring to instead of keeping these things in mind is muddying the water.

 

[Truthnightmare]

No it does not.

Jerusalem does not sit on many waters made up of people, nations, multitudes and tongues. Or rule over the kings of the earth that Christ is said to be the Ruler of in the first chapter of the Revelation.

The New Testament harlot does not have to be the same as the Old Testament harlot. The first harlot may be a type of the last harlot.

Rejecting the possibility of the Old Testament harlot you mentioned or rejecting any New Testament harlot is muddying the water.

Deciding we "know" which city the harlot is referring to instead of keeping these things in mind is muddying the water.

You are incorrect…

What does the Bible say?

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (KJV)

The great city is Jerusalem.

Who or what is the great city?

Rev 14:8
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication [religious adultery]. (KJV)​

Scripture then tells us that the woman is the great city (Jerusalem):

So who is the woman?

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV)

The great city is Jerusalem..
The woman is the great city.


Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (KJV)

Connect the dots friend. And Im always a little rough on Catholics because I know what it used to be and what it has now become…

 

[Zachariah.]

In my view, the Great Whore, Mystery Babylon, is Rome.

I think you are correct. It was a symbol for the control system of the time. The Roman Empire. If we where to apply it now it would represent the world governments.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I think you are correct. It was a symbol for the control system of the time. The Roman Empire. If we where to apply it now it would represent the world governments.

Greetings…

The following rebuts this notion….

The picture of the woman, as described, may be regarded as the "drop-curtain." But the initiated are those who will be admitted behind it, and learn "the depths of Satan:" and, behind the scenes in his own great theatre, will learn what Satan's religion means as they "worship the Dragon."

The uninitiated will see only the curtain— the wonderful city. Compare Prov. ix. 13-18, where both are shown and may well be applied to the passage here.

Idolatry was no mere sin into which people gradually sunk; but it was the creation, by Satanic wisdom, of a mighty system, which he intended to us, and to lead up to his own worship.

Nimrod was used as the great founder of this marvellous scheme of Satan. Babylon was his city (Gen. x. 10). Would not Cain's city before the flood answer to the people of that day, the same end as Babylon did afterwards (Gen. iv. 17)? Each would be the capital of their respective idolatrous systems. The words "Cain went out from the presence of the Lord" are very significant. So is the name of Cain's city. He called it "Enoch," which means initiated. 350 The corruption of mankind spoken of in Gen. vi. must have led to abnormal forms, which would account for the half-human, or super-human beings, which became the Nephilim, the Rephaim, and Anakim of Scripture; the Titans of the Greeks. It would account for the worship of Ishtar, Isis, Ashtaroth, and all the abominations of spiritual harlotry.

We thus see how "that great city," Babylon, founded by Nimrod, was the source of all idolatry.

This is not true of Rome. Pagan Rome itself was only one system; one of the polluted streams from that corrupt source. Papal Rome is only another single stream. It is not possible that a part can be the whole! It is not possible that one of many streams can be the fountain-head of all streams. Was there no idolatry before Pagan Rome? Whence then came the worship of "Moloch" and "Remphan," and "Chium," in the wilderness (Acts vii. 43. Amos v. 25, 26); and the worship of Ashtoreth, the abomination (i.e., idol) of the Zidonians, and Chemosh, the abomination of the Moabites, and Milcom, the abomination of the children of Ammon, which were introduced by Solomon (1 Kings xi. 5. 2 Kings xxiii. 11)? Was Rome the mother of these? The description here goes back to the origin of all the abominations of heathen idolatry. Rome's place in history makes this an absolute impossibility.

 

[Zao is life]

You are incorrect…

What does the Bible say?

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (KJV)

The great city is Jerusalem.

Who or what is the great city?


Scripture then tells us that the woman is the great city (Jerusalem):

So who is the woman?

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV)

The great city is Jerusalem..
The woman is the great city.


Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (KJV)

Connect the dots friend. And Im always a little rough on Catholics because I know what it used to be and what it has now become…

New Jerusalem is that great city.
Babylon the Great is the great city.

One is the faithful church.
One is the harlot.

Which great city did John see as having fallen, and which did he see as descending from God out of heaven afterward?

I'm not too sure you're connecting the dots correctly.

Only God's elect nation can be called a harlot. I.e those who call themselves Christians. Who claim that Christ is their Head.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think you are correct. It was a symbol for the control system of the time. The Roman Empire. If we where to apply it now it would represent the world governments.

I have a system of interpretation in which the Bible interprets itself to some degree. The authors of the Bible were aware of the biblical writings previous to themselves.

The book of Daniel spoke of the last major empires of the age, as it concerned Israel in his time and following. The 4th empire was undoubtedly the Roman Empire--the very Empire that had Christ crucified and martyred many of the Apostles and saints. This is the Empire to which John spoke, both on behalf of his own time and also on behalf of the endtimes. One imperial system, existing in his own time and extending until the end of the age.

Of course, John was not allowed, by the Holy Spirit, to identify Rome by name. But John was given to describe the Empire using language that clearly suggested Rome to the Christians of his time and even in our own time. His cryptic symbols, using the set of 7 political leaders that follow Antichrist are turned into a symbol of 7 major empires that began with biblical Egypt. John identified the 6th empire as presently existing, which would've been Rome.

John also turned the number "seven" to a picture of "7 mountains" which again would've suggested Rome to people of his own time. And then, as if it wasn't clear enough, he said it was the city that presently ruled, which would've been Rome.

Finally, he said this was "Mystery Babylon," indicating that Babylon, the 1st of Daniel's 4 Empires, was a cryptic representation of something in his own time and extending to the end time, which again had to be the Roman Empire.

If one looks at the history of the Roman Empire, situated in Europe, you'll see the great significance of this culture even in modern times, because it had become the heart of Christian Civilization, and obviously the place where Antichristianity will raise its head in protest against Christianity.

Christendom still needs to be warned that not all of Christianity is true Christianity. Even now an apostate form of Christianity is rising to challenge and berate true Christianity. We need to establish ourselves on the Rock, Jesus.

 

[Truthnightmare]

New Jerusalem is that great city.
Jerusalem is that great city.

One is the faithful church.
One is the harlot.

Which great city did John see as having fallen, and which did he see as descending from God out of heaven afterward?

I'm not too sure connecting the dots correctly.

Only God's elect nation can be called a harlot. I.e those who call themselves Christians. Who claim that Christ is their Head.

Scripture please…Where does it say one is the faithful church and one is the harlot?

 

[Zao is life]

Scripture please…Where does it say one is the faithful church and one is the harlot?

Revelation 17 calls Babylon the Great a harlot. Typo when I typed this:

New Jerusalem is that great city
Jerusalem is the great city

It should have been

New Jerusalem is that great city
Babylon the Great is the great city

(both called the great city in the Revelation). Only one is a harlot.

It's what I had just read you saying that got me jumbling Babylon the Great and Jerusalem up. It's because you have Jerusalem and the harlot jumbled up.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why would Jesus set up His throne in Rome?

Jesus established a home base for Christianity in Rome, but it is not the seat of his eternal Kingdom. Earthly Christianity can go corrupt, and it has.

Revelation 17 seems to be math that many cannot navigate.

I explain my view of this elsewhere in this thread. Let me know what you think? In a nutshell, there will be, according to Dan 7, 7 political leaders following the Little Horn--the Antichrist. 10 kingdoms, 3 kings fall, leaving 10 kingdoms and 7 kings.

John turns this number of 7 kings into a cryptic symbol suggesting Rome. They are 7 hills, which speak of Rome. And they can be viewed as 7 historical empires, likely beginning with biblical Egypt. The 6th Empire again is Rome. It is the city that rules on earth, which in John's time was Rome.

Rome is the 4th of the 4 Empires of Dan 2 and 7, the 1st being Babylon, and the last being Rome. And so, John calls Rome "Mystery Babylon" because he doesn't want to identify Rome by name. He uses cryptic symbols to explain who this is to Christians who at the time would know. I think we should know too.