Need Old Testament scholars on this one!

[HammerStone]

Isaiah 19:20
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
I am sorry, but anyone that would quote that to mean a rapture is frankly standing on a lot of hot air. Clearly, this is not talking about the doors of heaven, as it says thy chambers. I'm sorry, but this is a stretch that goes well beyond ridiculousness and runs into the outright perversion of the Word. Using this to create a rapture is utter fallacy. One cannot create a rapture when one wants - well you can, but you will ultimately rue that day.I'm sorry folks, but I am downright angered to read a post like this. Study the Word yourself and don't be led astray, they'll be plenty of avenues to have that done.I think the rapture doctrine just reached an alltime low here. It's not very impressive to convince someone.

 

[arniem]

(setfree;44551)
I really havent studied out all the scriptures he backed it up with but I will share as far as I can.Vs 19 dead men shall live/the earth shall cast out the dead. This is a ressurection of the dead.vs. 20 Come (speaking to his kindred), enter thou into thy chambers(bridle chambers) and shut thy door.Seems to be speaking of a hidding until the wrath is over.vs. 21 The Lord comes out of his place(heaven) to punish the inhabitants.(tribulation)This is basically what was said, He gave a lot of other scriptures I am still studing.As I have said before I was taught pretrib rapture, but have not studied it out to make a definite stand either way, but this preacher presented a lot.
Isaiah Chapters 24 to 27:13 deals with judgment and blessings in the last days and God's final victory over the forces of evil so it would not be completely out of context to use 26:19-21 with this in mind.I would not stick my head out and claim 26:20 is "the rapture" (there's that word again) but for sure it is a continuing indication that God always keeps his people from his wrath to come.However he does it , I would expect he will also keep his people from the end time wrath against the un-beleiving world , If he does not , it will be the first time he destroyed the good with the evil.Arnie M.

 

[Christina]

My exact point Arnie God will and has alway protected his own why must we/men make up doctrines that are not in the Word are we so weak of faith that we can not just trust in his Words? We go to doctrines of men for comfort because we dont think God can do as he says? Whats wrong with this picture? "When I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you." Passover is the time when God will destroy His enemies, but He will pass over those that love and trust Him. The blood on the post signifies the true blood that was shed on the cross at Calvary. Christ was the lamb slain for one and all times.That Lamb that was slain on the cross at Calvary, was slain so that anything wicked must pass over you and your house, even in our day. Jesus promised you and I that when we see and believe in the blood of Jesus Christ, and have faith and follow Him and His Word, the judgments that come on those that are not of God will pass right over you. Keep it straight in your mind, "Passover" is of God, for Christ became our PassoverWhat part of this doesnt the church today understand?? That we have to invent fly away doctrines.

 

[Christina]

Heres what God says will happen to the believer that are the Elect and Saints of the end timesRev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. DID YOU READ THAT TEN DAYS YET YOU THAT CLAIM SUCH FAITH WANT TO RAPTURE OUT OF HERE BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH THAT GOD WILL PROTECT YOU OR WORSE CASE SCENERIO YOU WILL HAVE TEN DAYS OF TORTURE BECAUSE SATAN IS NOT ALLOWED TO KILL YOU HOW SAD IS THAT YOU PRE TRIB RAPTURE BELIEVERS OF MEN SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME in fact thats about what God says you will do hide your head under rocks from your shame

 

[arniem]

"When I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you." Passover is the time when God will destroy His enemies, but He will pass over those that love and trust Him. The blood on the post signifies the true blood that was shed on the cross at Calvary. Christ was the lamb slain for one and all times.That Lamb that was slain on the cross at Calvary, was slain so that anything wicked must pass over you and your house, even in our day. Jesus promised you and I that when we see and believe in the blood of Jesus Christ, and have faith and follow Him and His Word, the judgments that come on those that are not of God will pass right over you. Keep it straight in your mind, "Passover" is of God, for Christ became our PassoverWhat part of this doesnt the church today understand?? That we have to invent fly away doctrines

Not quite sure what you mean here. Obviously I do not put blood over my doorway as an Old Testament method of passover.Certainly as a Christian I am protected by the blood of Jesus but are you saying that I may go thru the tribulation here on earth somewhere protected by the blood of Jesus? That would be just fine with me except revelation tells me I will be put to death or beheaded . I do not consider this protection from the wrath sent upon the evil world to punish it.

 

[Christina]

ArnieI wasnt saying you invented doctine I said I agreed with you post I said why must we/men invent doctrine

 

[Christina]

Because its the same a type Now we have Christs blood the lambs blood was a type of the blood of Christ to come God never changes he is the same yesterday today and tomarrow all things that happened before are a type or will happen again the protection he gave the Hebrews is the same he will give today and tomarrow these are Gods truths Christs blood replaces that of the lamband I do not get level playing field one is man word one is Gods thats not level in my book

 

[setfree]

Nobody in the Ark was killed, Lots wife turn to salt (do not get that one) the others escaped, No one behind the post with the blood on it was killed. But during the tribulation, some of us will die..Rev. 6:11...How is this the same picture?

 

[Christina]

(setfree;44790)
Nobody in the Ark was killed, Lots wife turn to salt (do not get that one) the others escaped, No one behind the post with the blood on it was killed. But during the tribulation, some of us will die..Rev. 6:11...How is this the same picture?
these are already dead and with him they are all the saints that died previously as I have already showed and told you

 

[Christina]

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. It is some of the 144,000 that will be killed that they are waiting for Not you God says you will be protected or jailed for ten days if you do not follow Anti christ

 

[arniem]

of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

This is a letter to the church in Smyrna . They are a church in poverty and affliction and some Jews are going to put some of them in prison for 10 days. I expect it has already happened way back then (in Smyrna)For sure this cannot be a reference to the tribulation times because the Smyrna letter clearly states it only applies to SOME of the church members (in Smyrna)

DID YOU READ THAT TEN DAYS YET YOU THAT CLAIM SUCH FAITH WANT TO RAPTURE OUT OF HERE BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH THAT GOD WILL PROTECT YOU OR WORSE CASE SCENERIO YOU WILL HAVE TEN DAYS OF TORTURE BECAUSE SATAN IS NOT ALLOWED TO KILL YOU HOW SAD IS THAT YOU PRE TRIB RAPTURE BELIEVERS OF MEN SHOULD HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME in fact thats about what God says you will do hide your head under rocks from your shame [/COLOR][/I][/B]

The people who will hide under rocks in revelation 6:15 are the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man . They have rejected God and Christ and are hiding from the from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! The Lamb is Christ. Christ is not there to pour wrath upon his church. The Lamb has promised to keep his church from the wrath.Arnie M.

 

[Christina]

Well you would be mistaken the churchs are types of churchs in the World today thats why they are in the book of Revelation and the people that hide under the rocks are all those that followed Antichrist which is where following mens doctrine will lead you

 

[Christina]

That Lamb that was slain on the cross at Calvary, was slain so that anything wicked must pass over you and your house, even in our day. Jesus promised you and I that when we see and believe in the blood of Jesus Christ, and have faith and follow Him and His Word, the judgments that come on those that are not of God will pass right over you. Keep it straight in your mind, "Passover" is of God, for Christ became our PassoverRev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.This is Gods promise to us Yesterday,Today and TomarrowHbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;44792)
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. It is some of the 144,000 that will be killed that they are waiting for Not you God says you will be protected or jailed for ten days if you do not follow Anti christ
Where in scripture does it say that the ones slain will be the 144,000?Is this speculation or do you have scriptures?

 

[Christina]

Because they are the sealed saints and it is required that saints be willing to die for Christ and the saints under the alter are already dead and with Christ call them bretheren that is fellow saints.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;44802)
Because they are the sealed saints and it is required that saints be willing to die for Christ and the saints under the alter are already dead and with Christ call them bretheren that is fellow saints.
Christians are also sealed saints.

 

[Christina]

No they are not if they follow men doctrines and are not willing to die for Name of God All christains are not Saints only God knows who is worthy in their heart

 

[setfree]

Those that are covered by the blood of Jesus are His saints. Saints has nothing to do with what you believe about the rapture, or your willingness to die. Hagios-most Holy thing, a saint. The only way we are made Holy is by the blood of Jesus.

 

[Christina]

I have no clue what you are talking the saints are those whom God is pleased with who are willing and have died for the name of Christ they know his truth they teach his ways they haved earned a speacial place with God and only God knows who they are. And whom he will seal in sainthood. All christains that except christ are covered in his blood but that doesnt mean all christians are saints only those deserving of it. All saints are Christains but not all christains are saints

 

[setfree]

(kriss;44826)
I have no clue what you are talking the saints are those whom God is pleased with who are willing and have died for the name of Christ they know his truth they teach his ways they haved earned a speacial place with God and only God knows who they are. And whom he will seal in sainthood. All christains that except christ are covered in his blood but that doesnt mean all christians are saints only those deserving of it. All saints are Christains but not all christains are saints
Scriptures Please!