New Covenant only for Jews?

[Johann]

I gave you the passages. You ignored them. I refer you back.

When it was given they were divided. When Jesus came they were back as one. The new covenant has been wrought. men choose whether they embrace it or not.

You sure about your answer, kind of backhanded, I might add?
J.

 

[WPM]

You sure about your answer, kind of backhanded, I might add?
J.

Explain your point then.

 

[Johann]

Explain your point then.

Read Jer 31 and Heb 8 again, and tell me if THIS covenant is fulfilled in Christ, the B'reeshit TO Judah and Israel, no mention of the Goyim...@marks, @Christophany


2Ti 2:15 Do your best to shtel zich (apply yourself), to present yourself to Hashem as one approved, a po'el (workman) without bushah (shame), keeping on a derech yashar the Dvar HaEmes.
2Ti 2:16 But profane chatter bereft of kedushah, avoid, for such will advance that which is frai (irreligious).
OJB
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

J.

 

[covenantee]

That's right, why WOULD any "Christian" care.
J.

Your quotes.

Not mine.

 

[WPM]

Read Jer 31 and Heb 8 again, and tell me if THIS covenant is fulfilled in Christ, the B'reeshit TO Judah and Israel, no mention of the Goyim...@marks, @Christophany


2Ti 2:15 Do your best to shtel zich (apply yourself), to present yourself to Hashem as one approved, a po'el (workman) without bushah (shame), keeping on a derech yashar the Dvar HaEmes.
2Ti 2:16 But profane chatter bereft of kedushah, avoid, for such will advance that which is frai (irreligious).
OJB
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

J.

I honestly do not know what you're trying to say here.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1 Corinthians 11:24-26: “And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”

Believers are asked to remember the Lord's death – which is “the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in [His] blood” – until He returns. “The new covenant” is here identified with “the Lord's death.” There is no way around it.

This is an ongoing demand.

Colossians 1:20-21 says “And having made peace through the blood of his cross by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him… And you, that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.”

When a man or woman comes to Christ he is reconciled onto God, whereupon the power of sin is broke. Christ became our substitute at the Cross even though He was sinless. He was condemned on our behalf for the purpose that we would be eternally free. He took our sin, our guilt, our past, our weaknesses, our sorrows upon Himself – in full. Calvary was a finished work.

Hebrews 13:20: “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.”

2 Corinthians 3:5-8 tells us that God: “our sufficiency is of God; Who hath made us (present tense) able ministers of the new testament [diathēkē or covenant]; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”

This is an ongoing reality.

Hebrews 8:6-13 declares: “now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant [diathēkē or covenant], which was (present tense) established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord." For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old (palaioō, worn out, decayed, declared obsolete). Now that which decayeth (palaioō, worn out, decayed, declared obsolete) and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

This is an ongoing reality.

Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9). He now sits at the right hand of majesty interceding for His elect.

Hebrews 9:14-17 confirms this: “the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament [diathēkē or covenant], that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”

This is an ongoing reality.

The whole idea of God-ordained covenant is all about the substitutionary blood sacrifice. Hebrews 13:20 describes the new covenant as “the blood of the everlasting covenant [diathēkē or covenant].”

God decreed that “the blood … maketh atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11). The atonement was the only possible means of salvation for sinful man. In fact, Hebrews 9:22 declares, “without shedding of blood is no remission” for sin. It is all about "the blood of the covenant [diathēkē or covenant]" secured by our Lord and Savior (Hebrews 10:29).

Jesus confirmed the covenant through His redemptive sacrifice at the cross. In Hebrews 9:12 we learn “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” We therefore see that Christ secured a full pardon for his elect putting away sin in the elect sinner (Hebrews 9:26) procuring their complete salvation.

Hebrews 12:22 & 24 sums it all up: “ye are come unto ... Jesus the mediator of the new covenant [diathēkē or covenant], and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."

Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9).

This is an ongoing reality.

Hebrews 10:28-29: “He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant [diathēkē or testament], wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

This is an ongoing reality.

and I agree with all these verses. AS they are written! Diatheke is also a testament like in last will in testament. context determines which. and in this case the blood is the new testament, not covenant. these are different pacts or agreements or documents if you will.

But once AGAIN YOU RUN INTO TEH SAME PROBLEM.

IF THE BLOOD JESUS SHED FOR US IS THE NEW COVENANT AND THAT COVENANT IS NOW IN EFFECT THEN SHOW ME WHEN THE PROVISIONS SPELLED OUT IN jER. 31 WENT INTO EFFECT:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The new covenant spelled out in Jer. is for the houses of Israel and Judah and not gentiles (except the converts).

1. god was never a husband to any gentile nation
2. When did god put His laws in the hearts of the houses of Israel and Judah. the language means the whole nation and not just the remnant.
3. When did all Israel become Gods people again as is required!
4. When did Jews no longer needed to be taught to know th eLord?
5. when did all Jes know the Lord from the greatest to the least?
6. when did God remove all their iniquity?
7. when did God no longer remember all Jews sins?

these have to go into effect if the new covenant is in effect, so when did they?

Ot is there two new covenants you are implying?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Earthly Holy Place
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb_10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Question, is Jeremiah 31, to the house of Judah and Israel, fulfilled?
J

to answer your question: No the covenant God spoke of in Jer. 31 has not been fulfilled yet! It has been paid for (the blood is the price and not the covenant)

If you believe it has been fulfilled, then please answer the questions from history I posted on my last response to you. Unless of course you believe that what is written in plain language is not what God meant.

 

[Johann]

to answer your question: No the covenant God spoke of in Jer. 31 has not been fulfilled yet! It has been paid for (the blood is the price and not the covenant)

If you believe it has been fulfilled, then please answer the questions from history I posted on my last response to you. Unless of course you believe that what is written in plain language is not what God meant.

Good points you have raised in your post #246 to Paul Malcomson.
These were the questions I asked my brother in Christ and no, I don't believe there there are 2 Kainos diatheke, that Of Christ, and another kainos diatheke in the future.
No where in the scriptures does it categorically mention to WHOM the price was paid, would you agree?
I am going to play the devil's advocate and say that Jeremiah 31 HAS been fulfilled in the shed blood of Christ, now the onus is on you to prove me wrong in scriptures.


The New Covenant
Jer 31:31 (30) Hinei, the days come, saith Hashem, that I will cut a Brit Chadasha with Bais Yisroel, and with Bais Yehudah;
Jer 31:32 (31) Not according to the Brit that I cut with their Avot in the day that I took hold of their yad to take them out of Eretz Mitzrayim; which My Brit they broke, although I was Ba'al (Husband) to them, saith Hashem;
Jer 31:33 (32) But this shall be the Brit that I will cut with Bais Yisroel [T.N. OJBC is Jewish]; After those days, saith Hashem, I will set My Torah in them inwardly, and I will write ketuvim on their hearts; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My People.
Jer 31:34 (33) And they shall teach no more every ish his re'a (neighbor), and every ish his brother, saying, Know Hashem; for they shall all have da'as of Me, from the katon of them unto the gadol of them, saith Hashem; for I will forgive their avon, and I will remember their chattat no more.
Jer 31:35 (34) Thus saith Hashem, which giveth the shemesh for an ohr by day, and the chukkot yarei'ach and chukkot kokhavim for an ohr by night, which stirreth up the sea when the waves thereof roar; Hashem Tzva'os is Shmo:
Jer 31:36 (35) If those chukkim depart from before Me, saith Hashem, then the Zera Yisroel also shall cease from being a Goy (Nation) before Me forever.
Jer 31:37 (36) Thus saith Hashem; If Shomayim above can be measured, and, below, the foundations of ha'aretz can be searched out, I will also cast off kol Zera Yisroel for all that they have done, saith Hashem.
Jer 31:38 (37) Hinei, the days are coming, saith Hashem, that the Ir shall be built unto Hashem from the Migdal Chananel unto the Sha'ar HaPinnah (Corner Gate).
Jer 31:39 (38) And the measuring line shall yet go forth straight ahead to Garev Hill, and around to Goah.
Jer 31:40 (39) And the whole valley [of Hinnom] of the pegarim (corpses), and of the deshen (ashes), and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the Sha'ar HaSusim (Horse Gate) to the east, shall be kodesh unto Hashem; it shall not be uprooted, nor destroyed any more l'olam.

See this...


Heb 10:14 For by one korban he has perfected forever HaMekudashim (the ones being set apart as Kadoshim).
Heb 10:15 And the Ruach Hakodesh also bears solemn edut to us; for after saying,
Heb 10:16 ZOT HABRIT ASHER EKHROT with them "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days," says the L-rd, "I will put my Torah in the mind of them and I will inscribe it on their heart" Jer 31:33). He then says:
Heb 10:17 LA'AVONAM U’LECHATTATAM LO EZKAR ("And their wickedness and their sin I will remember no more" Jer 31:34).
Heb 10:18 Now where there is selicha (forgiveness) for these things, there is no longer a korban for chatta'im.

Read this, linking it to the sacrifice of Yeshua...


that can never take away chatta'im;
Heb 10:12 But Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, having offered up one korban for chatta'im for all time, YASHAV LIMIN HASHEM ("Sat down at the right hand of G-d Ps 110:1),
Heb 10:13 Waiting from that time onward until "OYVAV ("His enemies) be made "a footstool for his feet".
All quotations from the OJB.

Should you wish, we can do this privately since I am here to learn the truth, not from "modern scholars" using online bible study sites and still have the interpretation of scriptures wrong.

J.

 

[Johann]

I honestly do not know what you're trying to say here.

No problem, noticed marks and Christophony is not saying a thing.
J.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Good points you have raised in your post #246 to Paul Malcomson.
These were the questions I asked my brother in Christ and no, I don't believe there there are 2 Kainos diatheke, that Of Christ, and another kainos diatheke in the future.
No where in the scriptures does it categorically mention to WHOM the price was paid, would you agree?
I am going to play the devil's advocate and say that Jeremiah 31 HAS been fulfilled in the shed blood of Christ, now the onus is on you to prove me wrong in scriptures.


The New Covenant
Jer 31:31 (30) Hinei, the days come, saith Hashem, that I will cut a Brit Chadasha with Bais Yisroel, and with Bais Yehudah;
Jer 31:32 (31) Not according to the Brit that I cut with their Avot in the day that I took hold of their yad to take them out of Eretz Mitzrayim; which My Brit they broke, although I was Ba'al (Husband) to them, saith Hashem;
Jer 31:33 (32) But this shall be the Brit that I will cut with Bais Yisroel [T.N. OJBC is Jewish]; After those days, saith Hashem, I will set My Torah in them inwardly, and I will write ketuvim on their hearts; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My People.
Jer 31:34 (33) And they shall teach no more every ish his re'a (neighbor), and every ish his brother, saying, Know Hashem; for they shall all have da'as of Me, from the katon of them unto the gadol of them, saith Hashem; for I will forgive their avon, and I will remember their chattat no more.
Jer 31:35 (34) Thus saith Hashem, which giveth the shemesh for an ohr by day, and the chukkot yarei'ach and chukkot kokhavim for an ohr by night, which stirreth up the sea when the waves thereof roar; Hashem Tzva'os is Shmo:
Jer 31:36 (35) If those chukkim depart from before Me, saith Hashem, then the Zera Yisroel also shall cease from being a Goy (Nation) before Me forever.
Jer 31:37 (36) Thus saith Hashem; If Shomayim above can be measured, and, below, the foundations of ha'aretz can be searched out, I will also cast off kol Zera Yisroel for all that they have done, saith Hashem.
Jer 31:38 (37) Hinei, the days are coming, saith Hashem, that the Ir shall be built unto Hashem from the Migdal Chananel unto the Sha'ar HaPinnah (Corner Gate).
Jer 31:39 (38) And the measuring line shall yet go forth straight ahead to Garev Hill, and around to Goah.
Jer 31:40 (39) And the whole valley [of Hinnom] of the pegarim (corpses), and of the deshen (ashes), and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the Sha'ar HaSusim (Horse Gate) to the east, shall be kodesh unto Hashem; it shall not be uprooted, nor destroyed any more l'olam.

See this...


Heb 10:14 For by one korban he has perfected forever HaMekudashim (the ones being set apart as Kadoshim).
Heb 10:15 And the Ruach Hakodesh also bears solemn edut to us; for after saying,
Heb 10:16 ZOT HABRIT ASHER EKHROT with them "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days," says the L-rd, "I will put my Torah in the mind of them and I will inscribe it on their heart" Jer 31:33). He then says:
Heb 10:17 LA'AVONAM U’LECHATTATAM LO EZKAR ("And their wickedness and their sin I will remember no more" Jer 31:34).
Heb 10:18 Now where there is selicha (forgiveness) for these things, there is no longer a korban for chatta'im.

Read this, linking it to the sacrifice of Yeshua...


that can never take away chatta'im;
Heb 10:12 But Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, having offered up one korban for chatta'im for all time, YASHAV LIMIN HASHEM ("Sat down at the right hand of G-d Ps 110:1),
Heb 10:13 Waiting from that time onward until "OYVAV ("His enemies) be made "a footstool for his feet".
All quotations from the OJB.

Should you wish, we can do this privately since I am here to learn the truth, not from "modern scholars" using online bible study sites and still have the interpretation of scriptures wrong.

J.

What you need to understand is that we are beneficiaries of Jesus Testament, which was paid in blood. This is the promise for all mankind. But this diatheke is a testament which differs qualitatively as well as quantitatively from a covenant.

The New Covenant in Jer. is clearly and absolutely for Israel alone.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. It is going to be made with Israel and Judah- no gentile nations even hinted at.
2. It will be different than the old covenant God made with the Jewish fathers! No gentile fathers.
3.Then all the provisions I have already reiterated.

Only by reinterpreting what god has said can one arrive at saying the new covenant is for the church.

We are blessed because of Abraham, and are partakers of the blessings invoked by the new covenant (found in other places) but th ecovenant itself is for Israel alone.

 

[Johann]

What you need to understand is that we are beneficiaries of Jesus Testament, which was paid in blood. This is the promise for all mankind. But this diatheke is a testament which differs qualitatively as well as quantitatively from a covenant.

The New Covenant in Jer. is clearly and absolutely for Israel alone.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. It is going to be made with Israel and Judah- no gentile nations even hinted at.
2. It will be different than the old covenant God made with the Jewish fathers! No gentile fathers.
3.Then all the provisions I have already reiterated.

Only by reinterpreting what god has said can one arrive at saying the new covenant is for the church.

We are blessed because of Abraham, and are partakers of the blessings invoked by the new covenant (found in other places) but th ecovenant itself is for Israel alone.

Yes, I would agree, this is a lengthy discussion and we haven't even touched the surface yet.
But thank you for the participation and dialogue between us, much appreciated.
Shalom to you and family.
Johann

 

[Keraz]

Only by reinterpreting what god has said can one arrive at saying the new covenant is for the church.

The Church, the Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language is the Israel of God,

Just as the Gentile Ruth, an ancestor of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, could say to the Israelite Naomi: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Ruth 1:16, so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel. Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12-19, Galatians 3:29

That is: all genetic Jews in the church remain members of Judah or Benjamin, the tribes they were born into. Romans 11:1 And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel and so will be assigned into its tribes, as per: Ezekiel 47:21-23, Isaiah 66:21 and as seen by John in Revelation 7:9

So the entire church represents the 12 tribes of Israel. This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved by the New Covenant, which is made only with the Israel of God. Hebrews 8:10

John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church. God knows who His people are, Amos 9:9, and every believer will be placed in the tribe suited to their abilities and characteristics. Revelation 7:9-14

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are ethnic Jews, Acts 22:3 or ethnic Gentiles, Romans 16:4b, have become spiritually-circumcised Israelites, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus. Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13

The books of James and Peter are addressed to the twelve tribes, which is the same as addressing people in the church, people with faith in Christ , James 1:3, that is: Christians, people who have been born again in Jesus and who anticipate His Return.

All those in the church, from every tribe, race, nation and language, are spiritually Abraham's seed, by their faith. Galatians 3:29 And Abraham's seed is Israel. Isaiah 41:8-10 So the entire church membership are Israelites of God. Galatians 6:16

This literally means we are the ‘Overcomers for God’, or ‘God’s Victorious people’. Seen in each of the seven Church’s of Revelation and in Isaiah 56:1-8

Not just the Jews in the church, but also the Gentiles in the church, are all spiritually Abraham's seed of promise as Isaac was and as Jesus is the one and only true Seed. And so the peoples of the church, Jews and those from every race, nation and language, every faithful believing Christian is an heir of all the as yet, unfulfilled promises made by God to Israel in all of the Bible: Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14


Zechariah 8:7-8 The Lord says: I am going to rescue My people from wherever they are in the world and I will bring them back into the holy Land, to Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God in truth and righteousness.

The Prophesies are clear; it is a people that God foreknew whom He will rescue, redeem, restore and forgive their sins and misdeeds. No other than the Northern tribes of the House of Israel, scattered among the nations and ‘lost’ to our knowledge, but not to God. Now; they are bulk of the faithful Christian peoples.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Church, the Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language is the Israel of God,

No you are still wrong! Posting it 10,000 times will not alter the Scriptures as written! Saved Israel is the Israel of God!

In you antisemitic fervor to jettison the covenanted people of God you forget the rest of that verse:

Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

All who walk according to the rule (salvation) Paul calls peace oin them. and also a second group of people- the Israel of God! Just like it is written. You have to add all these buts and ands to draw your conclusions and reinterpret scriptures.


Paul showed clearly that natural Israel is not all the Israel of God, but the righteous Jew is the Israel of god. I cannot sit quietly by while you reinterpret the word of God by your false hypothesis.

The Prophesies are clear; it is a people that God foreknew whom He will rescue, redeem, restore and forgive their sins and misdeeds. No other than the Northern tribes of the House of Israel, scattered among the nations and ‘lost’ to our knowledge, but not to God. Now; they are bulk of the faithful Christian peoples.

Now back that up with actual evidence. You sound like an old follwer of HW Armstrong and the worldwide church of God with that whacky ten lost ribe theory.

Just as the Gentile Ruth, an ancestor of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, could say to the Israelite Naomi: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Ruth 1:16, so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel. Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12-19, Galatians 3:29

No, we have been grafted onto the vine!

Rom. 11:
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Israel are branches- not the vine- nor the root!

John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus is the vine and not Israel that we gentiles have been grafted onto.

1. Isaiah 11:1
   And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Isaiah 11:10
   And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Romans 15:12
   And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Jesus is also the root and not Israel. You need to learn to read the bible more carefull and not tainted by others opinions.

 

[Johann]

Jesus is also the root and not Israel. You need to learn to read the bible more carefull and not tainted by others opinions.

we are to admonish each other in love, this is a deep subject.
Let us be careful in continually slinging mud.
Personally, I don't particularly like the word "Church" too much of a negative connotation.
Please Ronald.
J.

 

[WPM]

and I agree with all these verses. AS they are written! Diatheke is also a testament like in last will in testament. context determines which. and in this case the blood is the new testament, not covenant. these are different pacts or agreements or documents if you will.

But once AGAIN YOU RUN INTO TEH SAME PROBLEM.

IF THE BLOOD JESUS SHED FOR US IS THE NEW COVENANT AND THAT COVENANT IS NOW IN EFFECT THEN SHOW ME WHEN THE PROVISIONS SPELLED OUT IN jER. 31 WENT INTO EFFECT:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The new covenant spelled out in Jer. is for the houses of Israel and Judah and not gentiles (except the converts).

1. god was never a husband to any gentile nation
2. When did god put His laws in the hearts of the houses of Israel and Judah. the language means the whole nation and not just the remnant.
3. When did all Israel become Gods people again as is required!
4. When did Jews no longer needed to be taught to know th eLord?
5. when did all Jes know the Lord from the greatest to the least?
6. when did God remove all their iniquity?
7. when did God no longer remember all Jews sins?

these have to go into effect if the new covenant is in effect, so when did they?

Ot is there two new covenants you are implying?

Read your New Testament and you will find out. It is not rocket science. The Church is true believing Israel. They are the real circumcision. They got what was predicted here and are now wonderfully redeemed.

Romans 2:25 tells us: “if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.”

Romans 2:28-29 plainly states, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.”

Paul explains in Romans 9:8: “they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

Romans 10:12 states: “For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”

I Corinthians 7:17 declares, “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing"

Colossians 3:11 declares, “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Galatians 3:28 says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Galatians 5:2 declares, “if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Galatians 5:5 declares, "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

Galatians 6:15 reinforces that, saying, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.”

Whilst there is a difference between Nigerians and Irish in the natural, in Christ there is no difference spiritually. Nationality carries to favors today. There is indeed neither Jew nor Greek.

Paul outlined the unscrupulous pressure that was directed towards his converted Gentile co-worker Titus, by some of the early misguided Judaizers, in Galatians 2:2-5, saying, “Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.”

 

[covenantee]

we are to admonish each other in love, this is a deep subject.
Let us be careful in continually slinging mud.
Personally, I don't particularly like the word "Church" too much of a negative connotation.
Please Ronald.
J.

Jesus and His apostles used the word "Church" over 100 times in Scripture.

It had no negative connotation for them.

 

[covenantee]

What you need to understand is that we are beneficiaries of Jesus Testament, which was paid in blood. This is the promise for all mankind. But this diatheke is a testament which differs qualitatively as well as quantitatively from a covenant.

The New Covenant in Jer. is clearly and absolutely for Israel alone.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. It is going to be made with Israel and Judah- no gentile nations even hinted at.
2. It will be different than the old covenant God made with the Jewish fathers! No gentile fathers.
3.Then all the provisions I have already reiterated.

Only by reinterpreting what god has said can one arrive at saying the new covenant is for the church.

We are blessed because of Abraham, and are partakers of the blessings invoked by the new covenant (found in other places) but th ecovenant itself is for Israel alone.

You claim that Christ's New Covenant does not yet exist.

Christ declared 2,000 years ago that His Blood was the Blood of His New Covenant. (Matthew 26:28)

Explain Scripturally and semantically how Christ could declare that His Blood was the Blood of His New Covenant...

If His New Covenant did not exist.

 

[WPM]

No you are still wrong! Posting it 10,000 times will not alter the Scriptures as written! Saved Israel is the Israel of God!

In you antisemitic fervor to jettison the covenanted people of God you forget the rest of that verse:

Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

All who walk according to the rule (salvation) Paul calls peace oin them. and also a second group of people- the Israel of God! Just like it is written. You have to add all these buts and ands to draw your conclusions and reinterpret scriptures.


Paul showed clearly that natural Israel is not all the Israel of God, but the righteous Jew is the Israel of god. I cannot sit quietly by while you reinterpret the word of God by your false hypothesis.

Galatians 6:15-16 says, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”

Q. 1 Who is he specifically speaking to?
Q. 2 What is Paul speaking of in this reading?
Q. 3 Who is he speaking about?

A. 1 He is primarily speaking to Gentile believers in Galatia, although there would doubtless have been Jewish converts among that assembly of believers.
A. 2 The whole focus of this passage is the subject of circumcision, and how it has no bearing upon the issue of salvation.
A. 3. All those who are born again.

Paul is telling us here in this passage in very clear terms that one’s Jewishness or Gentileness means absolutely nothing today “in Christ Jesus.” We are all equally loved by God and all equally the children of Abraham by faith. Paul actually rebukes those that try to establish distinct groupings within the body of Christ (namely Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians). Paul repeatedly instructs the New Testament believer that there should be no racial, cultural or economic division within the body. 1 Corinthians 12:25 says: “That there should be no schism in the body.”

Those that would argue that a man’s natural race carries any merit or difference before God when it comes to salvation or that it in any way adds anything to a man’s spiritual status are severely censured by passages like Galatians 6. The reading declares, “And as many as walk according to this rule” (what rule?) – the non-racial new birth experience, – then “peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”

The Bible makes clear, only the second birth can create “a new creature” – nothing else. That is why Paul commences by saying, in Galatians 6:16, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature" (Galatians 6:15). Those who subject themselves to this divine decree (namely, giving their life to Christ), will, irrespective of race, experience the peace of God and the mercy of heaven.

The New Testament is constantly reminding us that we are saved alone by grace and not race; and that when we are saved we become one unique spiritual race. The Church in fact is a spiritual nation with it passport stamped in heaven.

We should carefully consider what verse 16 is actually saying, as so many people misinterpret it: “as many as walk according to this rule (that race is irrelevant under the New Testament), peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”

This is not telling us that there is a group of Gentile Christians that “walk according to this rule” and then there is another group of Jewish Christians that are called “the Israel of God” (as some argue) who are not subject to this rule. Such an interpretation would totally undo everything the writer has just taught.

The “as many as walk according to this rule” are plainly all believers. If it does refer to all believers then the Futurist argument falls apart in regard to 2 distinct groups here.

God’s people are seen to exclusively be those who submit to this particular rule. The “many” here is not simply Gentiles as Dispies would argue but Jews and Gentiles that have become new creatures in Christ. This non-racial rule, which renders circumcision and uncircumcision of non-avail, and the new creature spiritual experience as everything, is the whole thrust of the teaching. If someone isn’t found under ‘the born again banner’ then they are not God’s. These are the only people that enter heaven (John 3). So if there is another entity outside of the non-racial “many as walk according to this rule” (the new creature rule) it is spurious, regardless of whether it is Israeli or not.

One’s birthplace, birth-date, stock, colour or surname can never produce “a new creature.” Christ made it clear in John 3:6, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Those alone who walk according to this rule are exclusively assured of the “peace” and “mercy” Paul speaks of. To suppose a Christ-rejecting Jew or Gentile (however righteous his good works) can walk in the “peace” and “mercy” of God is a delusion and a blatant distortion of Christ’s teaching.

Sadly, the Christ-rejecting Jew to this day still foolishly puts his trust in “the works of the law.” Such a person is deceived of the devil and therefore outside of God’s “peace” and “mercy.” Paul exposed such people in Galatians 2:16, saying, “a man is not justified by the works of the law … for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

There is no racial distinctiveness in this grouping. Paul is trying to reinforce the truth that there is no distinction or division

The vast bulk of Israelites since the cross (as Gentiles) have rejected Christ’s one all-sufficient sacrifice for sin and are therefore bound for a Christless hell and eternal punishment. Christ (the Prince of Peace and the source of all mercy) gave no spiritual hope for the unregenerate man regardless of how distinguished his nationality or honourable his upbringing. Anyway, no one in Scripture outside of the new-born child of God is presented as being qualified to enjoy the “peace” and “mercy” of God. Every Jew and Gentile that is not born again is on the broad-road to hell. Jesus made it clear in John 3:3, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Keraz]

Paul showed clearly that natural Israel is not all the Israel of God, but the righteous Jew is the Israel of god. I cannot sit quietly by while you reinterpret the word of God by your false hypothesis.

Do you believe that the House of Israel and the House of Judah have rejoined?
If so; it is you who has the false ideas. There are many proofs that they have not yet been made as one. Ezekiel 37:15-28, is plainly unfulfilled.

Yes' righteous Jews do belong to the Israel of God, but they comprise only a remnant of the House of Israel. The main body are the Christian people; from every tribe, race, nation and language. Who are mainly actual descendants of Jacob, the people Jesus came to save, Matthew 15:24

 

[Taken]

Why does it say the "New Covenant" Jesus made is only for the Jews?

Hebrews 8:8 - But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

It began with the Jews First, then via Jesus’ Servants forward to the Tribes. And Pauls’ mission was with The Gentiles, but also the Jews.

The Hebrews, Tribes were always supposed to be “the Teachers” of their own People First, then the Gentiles.
Not news, every Order and Way God established for Good...men “reestablish” for their own “order and way”....for numerous reasons...
Such as, easy, convenient, likable, greed, etc.