New Covenant only for Jews?

[Illuminator]

Unsurprisingly, not an iota of supporting Scripture.

1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb"44 and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ. The Eastern Churches maintain a lively awareness of the unity of Christian initiation by giving Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed, even little children, recalling the Lord's words: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them."45 The Latin Church, which reserves admission to Holy Communion to those who have attained the age of reason, expresses the orientation of Baptism to the Eucharist by having the newly baptized child brought to the altar for the praying of the Our Father.
footnotes
44 Rev 19:9.
45 Mk 10:14

88 more footnotes, most of them citing Scripture.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 2 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 1

www.scborromeo.org

Your lies are most uncharitable.

 

[Illuminator]

Now the quote of Bellarmine, states that "All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope."

Therefore, all names of Christ, as scripture gives to Him, Bellarmine states are also the names as applied to the "Pope". Some of the very names of Christ in scripture are "I AM" (John 8:58), "God" (Hebrews 1:9), "Lord" ("JEHOVAH", Hebrews 1:10), "Everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6), etc. Christ is "Head" (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 4:15, 5:23; Colossians 1:18, 2:10) over the church.

Do you agree with Bellarmine's basic premise?

I don't agree with your twisted false premise, that has been exposed ad nauseum. "by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church" does not mean the pope is God. The charge is stupid and absurd. It's not complicated, you just refuse to understand it.
The notion that the Pope is God violates everything the Church teaches. The charge is stupid and absurd.

No pope ever said he was God Almighty. This is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. I have explained above how God intended for men to represent Him. That doesn’t mean they replace Him, or attain equality with Him. Your posts (wherever they are from) are just anti-Catholic twisting of the facts, no doubt, as is always shown when these attempts are examined closely.​

Debate: The Anti-Catholic "Pope As God" Argument

One of the many idiotic arguments that anti-Catholic polemicists bless us with is this notion that popes (like Jesus) have claimed to be God. I systematically refute it.

www.patheos.com

 

[bbyrd009]

Your lies are easy to refute.

im not seeing a lick of Scripture in there wadr

 

[Adventageous]

I don't agree with your twisted false premise, that has been exposed ad nauseum.

Perhaps you would give me your personal opinion of what Bellarmine referred to, in regards the "names ... [of] Christ" also applying to the "Pope". What "names" do you think Bellarmine was referring to then if not the ones I specifically pointed out? And if not those I pointed out, why not? I am not attempting, in any way, to twist Bellermines' statement. I want to rightly understand it. If, as you say I do not, then please explain what it does mean, and if you are able, show me from an authoritative (Magisterial) source (with link where possible).

 

[amigo de christo]

Most of us own Bibles. What is the point of posting all these verses?

Cause most folks cherry pick through only certain places and have long sat under men who have done the same .
An example would be , HOW They always say GOD IS LOVE , yet then bring a version of love that in areas
contradicts the true love of GOD . Thats why some must do all to show folks examples IN the BIBLE
of what TRUE CHARITY actually is and what IT AINT .

 

[Adventageous]

I don't agree with your twisted false premise, that has been exposed ad nauseum. "by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church" does not mean the pope is God. The charge is stupid and absurd. It's not complicated, you just refuse to understand it.
The notion that the Pope is God violates everything the Church teaches. The charge is stupid and absurd.

No pope ever said he was God Almighty. This is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. I have explained above how God intended for men to represent Him. That doesn’t mean they replace Him, or attain equality with Him. Your posts (wherever they are from) are just anti-Catholic twisting of the facts, no doubt, as is always shown when these attempts are examined closely.​

Debate: The Anti-Catholic "Pope As God" Argument

One of the many idiotic arguments that anti-Catholic polemicists bless us with is this notion that popes (like Jesus) have claimed to be God. I systematically refute it.

www.patheos.com

The phrase "Lord God, the Pope" is in several ed. of Extravagantes, in the gloss (a Canonist's commentary on the actual meaning of a particular phrase):

Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam — Our Lord God the Pope — DOCUMENTED.

www.biblelightinfo.com

1511 edition of Extravagantes viginti Johannis vigesimisecundi. Basel, Switzerland

Our Lord God the Pope in Latin is Dominum Deum nostrum Papam. It is abbreviated to Dnm Deu nrm papa in the middle line, and indicated by the red arrow.*

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't agree with your twisted false premise, that has been exposed ad nauseum. "by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church" does not mean the pope is God. The charge is stupid and absurd. It's not complicated, you just refuse to understand it.
The notion that the Pope is God violates everything the Church teaches. The charge is stupid and absurd.

No pope ever said he was God Almighty. This is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. I have explained above how God intended for men to represent Him. That doesn’t mean they replace Him, or attain equality with Him. Your posts (wherever they are from) are just anti-Catholic twisting of the facts, no doubt, as is always shown when these attempts are examined closely.​

Debate: The Anti-Catholic "Pope As God" Argument

One of the many idiotic arguments that anti-Catholic polemicists bless us with is this notion that popes (like Jesus) have claimed to be God. I systematically refute it.

www.patheos.com

The Catholic Church Teaches Heresy, Just As The Catholic Catechism Below Shows, Mary Doesn't Bring Eternal Salvation, Nor Is She Mediatrix, Its "Heresy"!

Romans 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Timothy 2:5KJV
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

(Catholic Catechism)

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

 

[Illuminator]

The phrase "Lord God, the Pope" is in several ed. of Extravagantes, in the gloss (a Canonist's commentary on the actual meaning of a particular phrase):

Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam — Our Lord God the Pope — DOCUMENTED.

www.biblelightinfo.com

1511 edition of Extravagantes viginti Johannis vigesimisecundi. Basel, Switzerland

Our Lord God the Pope in Latin is Dominum Deum nostrum Papam. It is abbreviated to Dnm Deu nrm papa in the middle line, and indicated by the red arrow.*

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If you are going to ignore my posts, I see no point in repeating myself over and over again. If you really believe Catholics think the Pope is God, it's because you are just another angry brain washed SDA anti-Catholic who refuses to be reasoned with, and an insult to my intelligence. You are a waste of screen space. good bye.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Ummm, no kidding.

Totally true. But then there's this...

"The [Catholic] Church has the right to require that the Catholic religion shall be the ONLY religion of the State, to the exclusion of all others... Cursed be those who assert liberty of conscience and of worship, and such that maintain that the church may not employ force." ~Pope Pius ix (1846-1878).

So force the state to make everyone Catholic, then be god over everyone.

Hello Brakelite, The words of The Lord always abide forever,

Hebrews 8

1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[BreadOfLife]

Re. post 947:

"False quote", eh?

Ever heard the expression "Hoisted by his own petard"?

Now you have.

That would be you.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Listen to Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, SJ (Jesuit), speaking (writing) about the “pope”:

In English: “All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” [Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, S.J. (Jesuit); Disputationes de Controversiis Christianae Fidei adversus hujus temporis Haereticos; Tom. 2, “Controversia Prima, De Conciliorum Auctoritate), Caput. 17, (1628 ed.) Vol. 1, pp. 266-translated] - https://www.documentacatholicaomnia...s_Robertus,_Opera_Omnia_(Vol_01_1856),_LT.pdf​

In Latin: “Secundo probatur ratione, in Scripturis fundata; nam omnia nomina, quae in Scripturis tribuuntur Christo, unde constat eum esse supra Ecclesiam, eadem omnia tribuuntur Pontifici.” - http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080015572_C/1080015573_T2/1080015573_21.pdf

'Disputationes de Controversiis Christianae" also mentioned in this book - https://www.documentacatholicaomnia...Sedes,_Acta_Apostolicae_Sedis_Vol_023,_LT.pdf

The link is directly provided.

The page is given as an image here:

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The surrounding context is given here:

Roman Catholicism Cardinal Robert Bellarmine Disputationes De Controversiis Christianae Fidei Adversus Hujus Temporis Haereticos : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Roman Catholicism Cardinal Robert Bellarmine Disputationes De Controversiis Christianae Fidei Adversus Hujus Temporis HaereticosYOUTUBE: ...

archive.org

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I’ve ALREADY informed you about the anti-Catholic Protestant origins of what Bellarmine supposedly stated or meant. An, as usual – you ignore the facts,

As I stated before - this was fairytale originally anti-Catholic works, such as Theological Discourses on Important Subjects, Doctrinal and Practical by James Thomson, ('Minister at Quarrelwood'), and Letters in the Roman Catholic Controversy by William Brownlee, '(Of the Collegiate Protestant Reformed Dutch Church') in New York, where it is attributed to Cardinal Robert Bellarmine.

The quote AND THE CONTEXT in which it appears can be found in chapter 17, entitled Summum Pontificem absolute esse supra Concilium:

Bellarmine was positing that
1 - it follows that the Pope is over the Council, and over the Church, not the other way around. It is proved by the second reason, based in Scripture: for all the names, ascribed to Christ in Scripture, from which it is determined that he is over the Church—those same names are ascribed to the Pontiff.

2 - And first, Christ is the paterfamilias (male head of the household) in his own house, which is the Church.
The Pope is the highest steward in the same house, that is, the household head in Christ’s place, per Luke 12:
The CONTEXT of Bellarmine’s word indicate that Pope is the VICAR (Chief Stewrd) of Christ – and NOT Christ Himself.

This quote seems “genuine” to those of you who are completely ignorant of Catholic teaching. If you can’t find this supposed teaching in the Catechism – it DOESN’T EXIST.

You idiotically stated that “EVERY POE” since then had believed that he was the SAME as Christ - and shrunk from the challenge for "VERBATIM" quotes.
Not only is this NOT a doctrine of the Church – it is an abominable lie.

So, for your next homework assignment – FIND that teaching in the Catechism- THEN, you might have a case

Happy hunting . . .

Catechism of the Catholic Church

[/URL]

 

[Illuminator]

The Catholic Church Teaches Heresy, Just As The Catholic Catechism Below Shows, Mary Doesn't Bring Eternal Salvation, Nor Is She Mediatrix, Its "Heresy"!

Romans 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Timothy 2:5KJV
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

(Catholic Catechism)

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

For the SECOND time, paragraph 970 explains 969.
970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

I don't see how you can call this heresy and claim to be a Christian. How old are you? 9?

Fashioning weapons from the catechism to attack the Church the way do is a form of witchcraft, IMO. Matt Slick (CARM) commits the same error repeatedly. Next time you quote the catechism, provide a link to the page, like this:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 6

www.scborromeo.org

That way you can avoid taking ONE paragraph out of context, a bad habit committed by uncharitable anti-Catholics.

 

[covenantee]

"The [Catholic] Church has the right to require that the Catholic religion shall be the ONLY religion of the State, to the exclusion of all others... Cursed be those who assert liberty of conscience and of worship, and such that maintain that the church may not employ force." ~Pope Pius ix (1846-1878).

Another scathing indictment to add to the existing plethora of scathing indictments.

Thank God for the Reformation.

 

[Brakelite]

If you are going to ignore my posts, I see no point in repeating myself over and over again. If you really believe Catholics think the Pope is God, it's because you are just another angry brain washed SDA anti-Catholic who refuses to be reasoned with, and an insult to my intelligence. You are a waste of screen space. good bye.

Well, as I expected. Even Catholic source documents denied and ignored. And in desperation and panic, because he has no answers to those very same Catholic documents, places the writer on ignore. There's probably a name for that behavior somewhere but having never ventured into the studies of psychology such descriptives escape me.
But thank you @Adventageous for your well documented source information. I have previously discussed the two sword theory as proposed by Augustine, but not having the original documents the response from illuminator and BoL was not dismissive as above, but just plain denial and diversion.
Closely associated with the two sword concept is the union of church and state. While this union is of pagan and not Christian origin, catholicism adopted it at the beginning, and it had been the Hallmark of Catholic dogma ever since. There was a discussion of this on another thread over the final 6 pages or so, "Why do Catholics..." with an equally unfruitful response from the resident Catholic apologists. When confronted with truth, the response is at first denial and insults and claims you are a liar, then outrage, then self righteous indignation, then they place you on ignore.
What is sad is the fact that most non Catholics cannot join in that discussion because they know and recognize how their own denominations are following the Catholic example in pleading for the state to empower the church and establish church doctrine. They either fail to see the danger, or genuinely believe that God wants to use politics to establish His kingdom on earth. I guess that's one thing that modern protestantism and the Vatican has in common.

 

[Brakelite]

If you are going to ignore my posts, I see no point in repeating myself over and over again. If you really believe Catholics think the Pope is God, it's because you are just another angry brain washed SDA anti-Catholic who refuses to be reasoned with, and an insult to my intelligence. You are a waste of screen space. good bye.

The topic isn't about what Catholics believe their Pope to be. It's about what the magisterium teaches their Pope to be, and what various church doctors teach the Pope to be, in this case, Cardinal Bellarmine. And @BreadOfLife , it's irrelevant where one finds the quote when the quote is accurate. What you need to show is whether the pictures of Bellarmine's book as shown in the post above, is real or not. If real, then doesn't that require an explanation? You continue to exercise your prerogative to be indignant at our right to ask questions, and complain that we misunderstand, misquote, misapply etc etc, but you fail miserably to explain what he did actually mean.

 

[Philip James]

Another scathing indictment to add to the existing plethora of scathing indictments.

Thank God for the Reformation.

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"

 

[Brakelite]

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"

Another scripture taken out of context. The anointed in that context was Jesus. The kings and princes were Herod, Caiaphas, and Pilate. It would assist also if you included the reference in your quote so that we can with ease find it and not have to search.

KJV Psalms 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Unless of course you believe verses 6-12 are pointing to the future Popes, then no surprise you don't want us to find those verses.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ummm, no kidding.

Totally true. But then there's this...

"The [Catholic] Church has the right to require that the Catholic religion shall be the ONLY religion of the State, to the exclusion of all others... Cursed be those who assert liberty of conscience and of worship, and such that maintain that the church may not employ force." ~Pope Pius ix (1846-1878).

So force the state to make everyone Catholic, then be god over everyone.

Pure Evil, the country of Italy in 1929 made the 110 acres of the "Vatican" a sovereign country, it's a place of refuge for the catholic world criminals

US Boston Cardinal "Bernard Francis Law" had involvement in 400+ counts of child molestation, he fled to Vatican city in 2003 where Pope John Paul protected him from extradition

Try Studying the Roman Catholic "Rat Lines" involvent in helping the NAZI war criminals escape Germany to catholic countries, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Etc

 

[Adventageous]

The CONTEXT of Bellarmine’s word indicate that Pope is the VICAR (Chief Stewrd) of Christ – and NOT Christ Himself.

Exactly. Thank you. The "pope" is "VICAR" according to the Magisterium of Rome, which, stemming from the Latin, means:

“Vicar (Latin vicarius, from vice, “instead of”) ...” [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, Vicar] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar

"Meaning of instead of in English​

instead of​

preposition​

us​

/ɪnˈsted ˌəv/ uk​

/ɪnˈsted ˌəv/​

in place of someone or something: ..." - instead of​

“... anti ... (in the place of…” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S"; "Sacrifice"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sacrifice

Therefore "VICAR ... of Christ" (aka Vicarius Christi), as you (BoL) put it succinctly, actually means "anti christ".

“Vicar of Christ (Latin Vicarius Christi). ... thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). ... and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ” [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, Vicar of Christ] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar of Christ

“But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, ...” [“The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII”, Encyclical Letter June 20, 1894; Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae - Papal Encyclicals] - Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae - Papal Encyclicals

“...It will be enough, however, to refer to the evidence contained in the epistles of St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, himself a disciple of the Apostles. In these epistles (about A.D. 107) he again and again asserts that the supremacy of the bishop is of Divine institution and belongs to the Apostolic constitution of the Church. He goes so far as to affirm that the bishop stands in the place of Christ Himself. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "C"; "Church"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Church

“...Supreme Pontiff, Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth...” [Roman Catholic Online Library; Church Documents; "Ad Sinarum Gentem (1954)"; Point 11.] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Ad Sinarum Gentem (1954)

“...We, indeed, to all men are the Vicar of Christ, the Son of God...” [Roman Catholic Online Library; Church Documents; "In Plurimis (1888)"; Point 2.] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: In Plurimis (1888)

 

[Brakelite]

Pure Evil, the country of Italy made the "Vatican" a sovereign country, it's a place of refuge for the catholic world criminals

Boston Cardinal "Bernard Francis Law" had involvement in 400+ counts of child molestation, he fled to Vatican city where Pope John Paul protected him from extradition

As far back as mid 19th century, the bloke who shot Abraham Lincoln was smuggled out through Canada to Europe, and was discovered as one of those candy cane guards.

 

[Brakelite]

As far back as mid 19th century, the bloke who shot Abraham Lincoln was smuggled out through Canada to Europe, and was discovered as one of those candy cane guards.

Pure Evil, the country of Italy in 1929 made the 110 acres of the "Vatican" a sovereign country, it's a place of refuge for the catholic world criminals

Boston Cardinal "Bernard Francis Law" had involvement in 400+ counts of child molestation, he fled to Vatican city in 2003 where Pope John Paul protected him from extradition

And then more recently, there were warrants of arrest from all over Europe and America for the head of the Vatican bank back in the day. He was wanted for fraud, embezzlement, illegal international transactions, money laundering for the Mafia, falsifying documents etc. He was a bishop from memory, and never left as far as I know so was never indicted or faced a court.