New Covenant only for Jews?

[Timtofly]

It isn't that interesting to me that you have never heard what I am proposing because I have come to understand that ideas have inertia, especially ideas that have been around a long time. Certain concepts of the Christian faith were hashed out early in church history and once an "official" conclusion is reached, the concept gains a certain amount of weight. And unless someone brings that concept back under examination, it remains unexamined and take as granted. Now, since the opening question seeks to understand the New Covenant, then we are obligated to temporarily put aside our preconceived religious concepts and examine the associated passages afresh.



Again, I ask you to be fair. We all give our opinions about what the text says. You speak as if you aren't doing that yourself.

With regard to the fact that prophets other than Jeremiah speak about "those days" and "after those days" is of little interest, because our concern is what Jeremiah intends to say in Jeremiah 31:31-34. We understand his reference to the "coming days" in the larger context of the entire chapter. The reason why many of the prophets speak in terms of "coming days" is due to the fact that Israel has been taken captive by Assyria and Judah is about to be taken captive into Babylon. Here in chapter 31 of Jeremiah, we hear Rachel crying for her children because, in her view, God has broken his promise to her and her children will be no more. The Lord comforts her, telling her that her children will return to the land; and God will bless her there once again. The Lord punctuates his word to Rachael, and ultimately, his people, with the phrase "Behold days are coming . . ."

For instance, Jeremiah, beginning in verse 27, speaks about the era after the exile, the era after the return. During that time the Lord will cause a population explosion so that Rachael's children will multiply greatly. Rachael mourned because she was convinced that her children were "no more." But God promises her that her children will be greatly multiplied.

In verse 29, the Lord speaks about that same time period, when the people will take responsibility for their own iniquity. (This is important, because it speaks to an essential element of the New Covenant.)

In verse 31, Jeremiah repeats the phrase "Behold days are coming . . .", which he has already established as the time after the exile when the people return from Babylon to the land of Judah. During that time, which is the time when Jesus walked the earth, The Lord made a New Covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Both Jesus and Paul understand the New Covenant in terms of individual salvation, based on faith in the blood of Jesus. Although Jeremiah doesn't specify this aspect of the New Covenant, this aspect is the sum and substance of the New Covenant according to all the New Testament authors.

Paul described himself as the minister of the New Covenant, which indicates that the New Covenant was already in effect, a covenant God made during the days after the return from exile. Jesus says that his blood, i.e. his death, burial, resurrection and ascension inaugurated the New Covenant, which is not only made with the houses of Israel and Judah, but as God revealed later, is made with all those who have the faith of Abraham.

More later . . .


We both agree that Jeremiah 31 speaks about the Millennial Kingdom. But I take issue with your "simplified" version. (No insult is intended. I like and very much appreciate your summary.)

In order for our discussion to move forward in productive manner, let me articulate the difference in our views with a focus on verse 33.

“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Yahweh, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

Whereas you include this announcement as part of the New Covenant, I note that Jeremiah speaks of a time "after those days." After what days? Isn't Jeremiah speaking about an era subsequent to the era specified in verse 31? When Jeremiah says, "Behold days are coming . . ." he speaks about the post-exilic era, during which time God made a new Covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel in the blood of Jesus. Then Jeremiah speaks of an era subsequent to that when he says, "after THOSE days" indicating the post-exilic period, after the post-exilic period God will make another covenant with Israel. This is where your summary fits in well, I think.

Israel as a whole has yet to return, so the New Covenant cannot even happen until the Second Coming, for Israel.

The Atonement on the Cross was the New Covenant for Adam's family, not just Abraham, and certainly not just for Jacob. So this New Covenant in Jeremiah 31 is not the Atonement of the Cross. Jeremiah's new covenant will be the Covenant of the 1000 year reign, with Christ, and the iron rod rule.

Yes, the Cross and the New Testament is similar to this Covenant with Israel, but the Cross was for the whole world, and Jeremiah's NC is specific for Israel. And no, the church did not replace Israel. The Tree is Jesus Christ. Even in the OT, the natural branch was in Christ. The ten northern tribes were cut off first and have yet to be joined into one with Judah. Until it is one branch, it cannot be grafted back in.

Many have tried to call the church, Israel. Many have tried to call the Gentiles, just the lost 10 tribes, and the world is still lost in sin without a redeemer. All this attempt at replacing Israel with Christianity is not even Paul's point. The church is the wild tree outside of Christ, Adam's flesh and blood. And yes, many of Jacob are still Adam's flesh and blood, and have been redeemed.

This redemption on the Cross was not what Jeremiah was talking about. Jeremiah was talking about the restoration of Israel on earth. And the church is not even a part of that. If you apply what Jesus claims in Matthew 25:31-46 as part of the Olivet Discourse, not even all who claim to be of Israel will be, because many will be branded as goats. This separation of the goats and sheep will determine the real Israel from the fake Israel. Another passage that is not about the church, but Israel.

 

[Davy]

Israel as a whole has yet to return, so the New Covenant cannot even happen until the Second Coming, for Israel.

Where are you getting that idea that the New Covenant has not yet happened? It was offered by Lord Jesus at His 1st coming, and sealed by His death and resurrection. Just because we have yet to receive the bodies of glory doesn't mean The New Covenant is not yet in effect today. And that is for ALL... believers on Jesus Christ regardless of their origin of birth.

And yes... God's Israel today is... His Church, and one is either part of it through Faith on Him and His Son Jesus Christ, or they are 'cut off' from it.

God through His OT prophets foretold of how Jacob's seed would become "a company of nations", and that Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations". That happened per history when after Jerusalem rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, and The Gospel, and He instead was preached to the nations of Asia Minor and Europe, and they become the western Christian nations of history. That most definitely included many Israelites believing on Jesus Christ, probably even the 'majority' of the ten tribes of Israel that was scattered there.

Basically what that means is, if God hadn't scattered the ten tribes of Israel among the Gentiles in the West, then The Gospel could not have gone any further than the middle east. But not only do places in the West have traditions pointing to The Gospel first accepted there on national scales, the Christian West also reveals the birthright blessings God gave to Abraham and his seed forever.

What blessings does today's Jerusalem that is still in unbelief have? They don't have a king of of the house of David upon a throne there anymore; they don't have the best corn and wine producing lands; they don't have the strongest military in the world; they don't rule the gates of their enemies; and the Muslims control most of their lands which God originally gave to Abraham and his seed.

 

[Stumpmaster]

So show the provisions of the new covenant for gentiles and what was the old covenant for gentiles?

Done, done, & done already.

Post Jeremiah's prophecy of a new covenant all you want but the truth is that all the covenants are fulfilled in Christ.

Heb 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. (9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

 

[CadyandZoe]

Israel as a whole has yet to return, so the New Covenant cannot even happen until the Second Coming, for Israel.

The Atonement on the Cross was the New Covenant for Adam's family, not just Abraham, and certainly not just for Jacob. So this New Covenant in Jeremiah 31 is not the Atonement of the Cross. Jeremiah's new covenant will be the Covenant of the 1000 year reign, with Christ, and the iron rod rule.

Yes, the Cross and the New Testament is similar to this Covenant with Israel, but the Cross was for the whole world, and Jeremiah's NC is specific for Israel. And no, the church did not replace Israel. The Tree is Jesus Christ. Even in the OT, the natural branch was in Christ. The ten northern tribes were cut off first and have yet to be joined into one with Judah. Until it is one branch, it cannot be grafted back in.

Many have tried to call the church, Israel. Many have tried to call the Gentiles, just the lost 10 tribes, and the world is still lost in sin without a redeemer. All this attempt at replacing Israel with Christianity is not even Paul's point. The church is the wild tree outside of Christ, Adam's flesh and blood. And yes, many of Jacob are still Adam's flesh and blood, and have been redeemed.

This redemption on the Cross was not what Jeremiah was talking about. Jeremiah was talking about the restoration of Israel on earth. And the church is not even a part of that. If you apply what Jesus claims in Matthew 25:31-46 as part of the Olivet Discourse, not even all who claim to be of Israel will be, because many will be branded as goats. This separation of the goats and sheep will determine the real Israel from the fake Israel. Another passage that is not about the church, but Israel.

We are discussing my proposal that Jeremiah mentions three distinct covenants in Jeremiah 31:31-34. 1) The Mt. Sinai covenant, which Israel broke. 2) the New Covenant the Lord will make with house of Israel and the house of Judah after the exile, which was fulfilled on the cross, and 3) the covenant God will make with the house of Israel after those days.

 

[Timtofly]

Where are you getting that idea that the New Covenant has not yet happened? It was offered by Lord Jesus at His 1st coming, and sealed by His death and resurrection. Just because we have yet to receive the bodies of glory doesn't mean The New Covenant is not yet in effect today. And that is for ALL... believers on Jesus Christ regardless of their origin of birth.

And yes... God's Israel today is... His Church, and one is either part of it through Faith on Him and His Son Jesus Christ, or they are 'cut off' from it.

God through His OT prophets foretold of how Jacob's seed would become "a company of nations", and that Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations". That happened per history when after Jerusalem rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, and The Gospel, and He instead was preached to the nations of Asia Minor and Europe, and they become the western Christian nations of history. That most definitely included many Israelites believing on Jesus Christ, probably even the 'majority' of the ten tribes of Israel that was scattered there.

Basically what that means is, if God hadn't scattered the ten tribes of Israel among the Gentiles in the West, then The Gospel could not have gone any further than the middle east. But not only do places in the West have traditions pointing to The Gospel first accepted there on national scales, the Christian West also reveals the birthright blessings God gave to Abraham and his seed forever.

What blessings does today's Jerusalem that is still in unbelief have? They don't have a king of of the house of David upon a throne there anymore; they don't have the best corn and wine producing lands; they don't have the strongest military in the world; they don't rule the gates of their enemies; and the Muslims control most of their lands which God originally gave to Abraham and his seed.

Because I am not a historist and post mill.

I explained that the Cross was the Atonement Covenant for all of Adam's flesh and blood. It is not just specifically for Israel.

Jeremiah 31 is specifically for Israel. It leaves out the rest of Adam's flesh and blood.

The metaphor would be Israel is the pastor to the rest of the world. But the pastor backslid, and now there is a new pastor, Christ. But every denomination does their own thing any way, and pastor is a loose term. Not the Law, that every one agrees on. Soon, Israel, as the pastor, will be restored with a new covenant. Christ will be the head pastor of Israel on earth, over the whole congregation of nations.

The Atonement or New Testament Covenant is to the whole world, yet the world still as a whole is free to reject or accept the invitation into the family of God, dwelling in Paradise. Paradise is that city not made by human hands. Hebrews 11. Which has nothing to do with earthly Israel, and the earthly congregation. The Atonement is a free gift, not a law written on the hearts of every single person on earth.

Now you can call it a law of Grace. The Atonement is not a license to keep sinning. This Covenant in Jeremiah seems to go hand in hand with Daniel 9:24. God right now is looking for willing partners, who exercise faith like Abraham, even before the Law of Moses was introduced. As stewards of the vineyard, it is not that we lord it over and abuse people. We are to be lights and filled with the Holy Spirit, not a law.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Done, done, & done already.

Post Jeremiah's prophecy of a new covenant all you want but the truth is that all the covenants are fulfilled in Christ.

Heb 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. (9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

So Jesus was disobedient to you then?

So jesus needed to have His sins forgiven to you then?

So Jesus had to have His Father no longer remember His sins to you then?

So Jesus had to wait for God to be HIs god again to you then?

YOu must think so , for these are the provisions of the new covenant as written in Gods Word! And if all covenants are fulfilled in Jesus.

I agree 100% with all these verses, just not in the way you are trying to use them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Again, let's be fair with each other. You are attempting to charge me with an "absurd" argument without actually taking the time to properly formulate the reducio ad absurdum argument. That is, without showing how my statements actually lead to an absurd conclusion, you simply make one up and assert it as if I said it. Why not address my arguments directly?

Don't need to grammar and language are enough to destroy you rhypothesis. It is simply not what is written ain the way it was written.

Why not address my arguments directly?

I have. I have to assume you have not read my points or reject them witrhout comment.

B points back to A. First God makes a covenant with two houses during the "A" days. Then, after the "A" days comes the "B" days during which God makes a covenant with the people.

In my view, "the days" of verse 31 indicate the post-exilic period after the people return from Babylon, during which time Jesus dies on the cross, rises from the dead, and ascends to the Father. This, according to both Jesus and Paul, is the New Covenant.

Your first two sentences are 100% biblically correct. Then it all goes to rot afterwards. It truly is your vieww, but not the bibles view.

In order to "support" your view, you need evidence of a post exilic covenant- you have none which is why you can produce none.
And no, the death and resurrection of Jesus is not the Jeremiah New covenant. It is the price paid for the covenant to be able to go into effect.

So you have teh New Covenant in verse 31, and then you have God making another Covenant in verse 33--after those days.

where is your evidence????????????????? You need more than just your "opinion", "view", and conclusion of people you studied with. You need empirical biblical evidence to shatter the normal rules of language and grammar, and make this passage read differently than how it is normally read.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As the ancient Israelite nation is no longer here and the modern State of Israel is not a godly people, then the only answer to the question of who are the Israelites of God, is the faithful Christians. From every tribe, race nation and language. WE are the Chosen people of God, John 15:14-19, His true Israelites; Galatians 6:14-16

But we understand why you must wrongly attribute the Jews as God's chosen people; so you can float off to heaven, while the Jews go thru tribulation. An extremely pretentious and fanciful idea which is never prophesied to happen.

So you are implying then that ancient Israel was a Godly people????? I see only a remnant in all generations, even now! Go to Israel, there are over 10,000 Messianic congregations that meet for worship!

NO Israel is the chosen people of God, we are the Gentiles God has called out of teh nations to be a people for HIs name. As Paul said in romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Whose we??? Are you schizophrenic now???

Your sin of presumptuousness and falsely attributing things to me is shameful on your part. Your reasons you think I believe in the rapture are not the reasons why I believe in he rapture, but go ahead and continue to falsely accuse teh brethren if you must.

 

[Keraz]

So you are implying then that ancient Israel was a Godly people????? I see only a remnant in all generations, even now! Go to Israel, there are over 10,000 Messianic congregations that meet for worship!

NO Israel is the chosen people of God, we are the Gentiles God has called out of teh nations to be a people for HIs name.

This I agree with.
I have attended a Christian service in Jerusalem.
As Paul does say: But as for Israel [The Jews] only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27
This means that the majority of the Jews will be destroyed, as many Prophesies tell us. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:1-14, +
Jesus un-chose the Jews, Matthew 8:12, and chose the Christian believers; John 15:14-16.
So to believe, as you do, is to believe a lie from hell.

The mistake of using the word; Israel, as only applying to the mixed race group of peoples who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel, is where confusion comes in.
The name of Israel was first given to Jacob, who was an overcomer for God. So it applies to anyone who believes in God and keeps His Commandments. New Testament teaching is clear: We Christians are the true Israelites of God.

 

[Davy]

Because I am not a historist and post mill.

I explained that the Cross was the Atonement Covenant for all of Adam's flesh and blood. It is not just specifically for Israel.

Jeremiah 31 is specifically for Israel. It leaves out the rest of Adam's flesh and blood.

It does not leave out the Gentiles. Without God establishing restored Israel in the future, with Christ sitting upon David's throne, on earth, there would be no future Salvation for Gentiles, much less for Israelites. You can't just read Jer.31 and stop there. There is much more in the OT prophets, and in the NT about Christ's future Kingdom on earth.

The metaphor would be Israel is the pastor to the rest of the world. But the pastor backslid, and now there is a new pastor, Christ. But every denomination does their own thing any way, and pastor is a loose term. Not the Law, that every one agrees on. Soon, Israel, as the pastor, will be restored with a new covenant. Christ will be the head pastor of Israel on earth, over the whole congregation of nations.

In Jeremiah 3, God said He will eventually give pastors according to His heart to backsliding Israel that will feed His people with knowledge and understanding. That began with Christ's disciples and continued with scattered Israel and Gentiles dwelling in the traditional Christian west. And then it continued from there to rest of the nations. And in final, during Christ's future "thousand years", reign those pastors will be assigned to teach His people the difference between the clean and unclean, and the holy vs. the profane (Ezekiel 44).

Why do I mention this? Because in Christ's future Kingdom, the pastor job is one of the jobs what Christ's faithful elect Church are going to have.

The Atonement or New Testament Covenant is to the whole world, yet the world still as a whole is free to reject or accept the invitation into the family of God, dwelling in Paradise. Paradise is that city not made by human hands. Hebrews 11. Which has nothing to do with earthly Israel, and the earthly congregation. The Atonement is a free gift, not a law written on the hearts of every single person on earth.

You're not understanding what today's nation of Israel represents. Just because some refuse to believe doesn't make God's Word of none effect. God made a promise to David that He would always leave one tribe for David's and Jerusalem's sake...

1 Kings 11:29-36
29 And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:

30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:

31 And he said to Jeroboam, "Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:

32 (But he shall have one tribe for My servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel

33 Because that they have forsaken Me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in My ways, to do that which is right in Mine eyes, and to keep My statutes and My judgments, as did David his father.

34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David My servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept My commandments and My statutes:

35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.

36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David My servant may have a light alway before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen Me to put My name there.
KJV

So even though the majority of Jews in today's nation state of Israel reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah, God has shown He has kept His promise to leave one tribe at Judea/Jerusalem that He made back in Solomon's day. And the fact that He chose Jerusalem to put His name there, that means He has staked His claim to it, which is another reason why Israel is established as a nation against today in the middle east.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This I agree with.
I have attended a Christian service in Jerusalem.
As Paul does say: But as for Israel [The Jews] only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27
This means that the majority of the Jews will be destroyed, as many Prophesies tell us. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:1-14, +
Jesus un-chose the Jews, Matthew 8:12, and chose the Christian believers; John 15:14-16.
So to believe, as you do, is to believe a lie from hell.

The mistake of using the word; Israel, as only applying to the mixed race group of peoples who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel, is where confusion comes in.
The name of Israel was first given to Jacob, who was an overcomer for God. So it applies to anyone who believes in God and keeps His Commandments. New Testament teaching is clear: We Christians are the true Israelites of God.

You are guilty of practicing replacement theology and twisting the word of God to suit your own agenda!!!

the bible calls Israelites only the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of whom He has made ETERNAL Covenants with.

Saying the word Israel can mean the church sometimes and the descendants sometimes is twisting the word sinfully. You make people come to you to understand when "Israel" means physical Jews and when "Israel" means the church.

Once again that is the Word of Kerasz and not the Word of God! You will find out to your shame you have erred grievously here.

There is not one verse you can present from Gods Word that shows God allows Israel to mean the church.

The true Israelites of God are the remant of each generation of physical Israelites since God made eternal covenants with physical Israel, just like His word says without KLerasz in his arrogance thinking he needs to correct God!

OT Israel is not part of the church, and the saints from the rapture which you reject (thank god He doesn't in His Word) until Jesus returns are not part of teh church either. The church began at Pentecost and ends with the great snatching awayof Thesselonians aka the "rapture".

 

[michaelvpardo]

Why does it say the "New Covenant" Jesus made is only for the Jews?

Hebrews 8:8 - But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

It doesn't say that, you're inferring that, but the epistle that you are quoting was written to the 1st century Jewish believers, not to a gentile church and has to be understood in that context or it will seem to contradict the doctrine of election.

 

[michaelvpardo]

looking at what the author says, particularly the following verses

Heb 8: 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

we must ask ourselves. where in the world has this happened for anyone?

Its been happening for almost 2000 years among born again believers. Aren't you taught by God?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its been happening for almost 2000 years among born again believers. Aren't you taught by God?

So born again christians all live in the same country and we are all neighbors?

Sorry, But one of my neighbors is catholic. the other is muslim. the one across the street is undecided, and the other one I have spoken to is an agnostic.

The passage says, Heb 8: 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Non of them shall say to his NEIGHBOR. and non of them to his BROTHER.

Sorry. the church does not represent this.

 

[michaelvpardo]

@Mike Tang 1991 @Ronald Nolette @marks

Based on Paul's argument in Hebrews, we can now conclude that Jeremiah 31:31-34 speaks of TWO covenants. It's subtle but notice the references to time in the following passage.

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

First, the prophet speaks about days that are coming (vs31). Then his attention switches to other days after that (vs33).

In verse 31, the Lord reveals that he is going to make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the House of Judah, but he doesn't specify the terms of that covenant. The terms of the covenant are left unspoken. Later, in the New Testament, Jesus and the Father reveal the terms of that New Covenant in terms of a new basis on which to find forgiveness and justification with God. Rather than being justified by the blood of bulls and goats, Israel (and Gentiles also) will find justification through the blood of the cross. Jesus even says so explicitly. Holding up the wine glass, during the Jewish Seder he says, "this is the New Covenant in my blood." Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20 And Paul the apostle reiterates this also in 1 Corinthians 11:25 Salvation by the blood of Jesus IS the New Covenant, which not only applies to Israel, it applies to Gentiles also.

In verse 33, the Lord describes another covenant he will make "after those days." After what days? After the days during which the New Covenant was inaugurated. The New Covenant was inaugurated at the cross of Jesus. And as we know, the New Covenant has been in force for many centuries. Sometime in our future, the Lord will bring about the covenant specified in Jeremiah 31:33, which describes a day when know one in Israel will need teach, "know the Lord" because they will all know him. This is yet to happen in our future.

Nope, there's just one new covenant which is also referred to in scripture as the covenant of peace or My covenant with David. The fulfillment of biblical prophesy doesn't have to occur all at once and its actually common to see a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment (some prophesy about Christ had already been fulfilled in the lives of the prophets, but for a sign of the ultimate fulfillment to come in the person of our Lord.)

 

[michaelvpardo]

So born again christians all live in the same country and we are all neighbors?

Sorry, But one of my neighbors is catholic. the other is muslim. the one across the street is undecided, and the other one I have spoken to is an agnostic.

The passage says, Heb 8: 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Non of them shall say to his NEIGHBOR. and non of them to his BROTHER.

Sorry. the church does not represent this.

If you're careful in your reading of scripture, you'll see the church referred to as a foolish nation, even though the church is meant to exist around the world. Don’t confuse nation with country. The first is a people, the second is a place.
Also, if you look into the remaining historical record carefully, you'll find that a great deal of prophesy has 2 fulfillments, one in the lifetime of the prophet (as a sign to Israel) and another in the person of Christ. Seeing Christ is the goal of scripture.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Done, done, & done already.

Post Jeremiah's prophecy of a new covenant all you want but the truth is that all the covenants are fulfilled in Christ.

Heb 5:8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. (9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Thank you for the direct application of the word to this silly carnal minded thread. There'd be far fewer arguments in these forums if people understood that God isn't schizophrenic and that His word agrees with itself and progressively reveals Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

In order to "support" your view, you need evidence of a post exilic covenant- you have none which is why you can produce none.

It's called the New Testament.

And no, the death and resurrection of Jesus is not the Jeremiah New covenant.

Paul the apostle argues the case in the book of Hebrews.

 

[charity]

This I agree with.
I have attended a Christian service in Jerusalem.
As Paul does say: But as for Israel [The Jews] only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27
This means that the majority of the Jews will be destroyed, as many Prophesies tell us. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 22:1-14, +
Jesus un-chose the Jews, Matthew 8:12, and chose the Christian believers; John 15:14-16.
So to believe, as you do, is to believe a lie from hell.

The mistake of using the word; Israel, as only applying to the mixed race group of peoples who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel, is where confusion comes in.
The name of Israel was first given to Jacob, who was an overcomer for God. So it applies to anyone who believes in God and keeps His Commandments. New Testament teaching is clear: We Christians are the true Israelites of God.

'Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham,
are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.'
( Rom.9:7 - Gen.21:12 - Heb. 11:18 )

Oh @Keraz,

What are you saying?
This is not worthy of you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you're careful in your reading of scripture, you'll see the church referred to as a foolish nation, even though the church is meant to exist around the world. Don’t confuse nation with country. The first is a people, the second is a place.
Also, if you look into the remaining historical record carefully, you'll find that a great deal of prophesy has 2 fulfillments, one in the lifetime of the prophet (as a sign to Israel) and another in the person of Christ. Seeing Christ is the goal of scripture.

Israel was given Land.

Israel was told if they obey God they could live in that land in peace

Israel was told if they disobey God he would punish them 7 times. The last time being total destruction of the land and cities, total destruction of their high places and temple. And they would be scattered all over the earth.

Israel was told if they confess their sin and the sin of their fathers, God would remember the land, he would remember the promises he made with Abraham Isaac and jacob and his 12 sons. (all of this can be found in the genesis passages I mentioned and lev 26)

The church was never given any such promise

So the church CANNOT fullfill the prophecy of being returned.