New Covenant only for Jews?

[michaelvpardo]

Christians are circumcized of the heart, as Romans 4:9-12 makes clear.

Jesus is the true Israel of God. We, His followers are also overcomers for God, literally Israelites.
As against those people living in the Jewish State of Israel; who call themselves; Israelis.

Yes. The AC cannot make that 7 year peace treaty with the Jews, as they will be gone. Zephaniah 1:1-18
Many prophesies tell of the great gathering of the Christian peoples into all of the holy Land. Read Psalms 107 for starters. John 11:51-52

Keraz, your statements regarding national Israel are not entirely true. At the last count, some years ago, there were over 10,000 born again Jewish believers (In Jesus Christ) in the state of Israel and that number was growing (though to the dismay of the orthodox Jews living there), while the vast majority of the Jewish Israelis are secular, not practicing any faith.

 

[Keraz]

Keraz, your statements regarding national Israel are not entirely true. At the last count, some years ago, there were over 10,000 born again Jewish believers (In Jesus Christ) in the state of Israel and that number was growing (though to the dismay of the orthodox Jews living there), while the vast majority of the Jewish Israelis are secular, not practicing any faith.

My estimate of the Christian Jews in Israel and worldwide is as many as 100,000.
They need at least that many to get their 24,000 quota of the 144,000. Rev 7:1-8

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Christians are circumcized of the heart, as Romans 4:9-12 makes clear.

Once again you misuse SCripture with eisegesis:

Romans 4:9-12
King James Version

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

This is about faith and not of "circumcision of teh heart". Of course believers are the circumcised of the heart , but this passage is not a defense of this. This is showing that both Jew and Gentile are children of Abraham, if you wish to use exegesis and keep it ini its context.

Jesus is the true Israel of God. We, His followers are also overcomers for God, literally Israelites.
As against those people living in the Jewish State of Israel; who call themselves; Israelis.

To you- not to Gods' Inspired word as written. the phrase Israel of God is most pronounced in Galatians.

Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Do you need to have somebody really explain why calling this Jesus or the church makes no sense in any dimension?

Yes. The AC cannot make that 7 year peace treaty with the Jews, as they will be gone. Zephaniah 1:1-18
Many prophesies tell of the great gathering of the Christian peoples into all of the holy Land. Read Psalms 107 for starters. John 11:51-52

Do you really wish to declare Psalm 107 refers to the church or christians?????

WELL YOU HAVE BUTCHERED THE MEANING OF JOHN 11:51-52. iT DOES NOT EVEN SPEAK OF A GATHERING TO ISRAEL.


GeeWhizz! God says that the antichrist is going to make a 7 year treaty with Israel, and the great and powerful Kerasz says no the bible is mistaken.

 

[Keraz]

Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Do you need to have somebody really explain why calling this Jesus or the church makes no sense in any dimension?

Read Galatians 6:14-16.
Proof that Christians are the Israelites of God.

GeeWhizz! God says that the antichrist is going to make a 7 year treaty with Israel, and the great and powerful Kerasz says no the bible is mistaken.

The Anti-Christ will make a 7 year treaty of peace with the leaders of the new Christian nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

People who get nasty and accusative when their beliefs are challenged, are obviously the ones who lack scriptural proofs for their beliefs.

Get this: more than 20 Prophesies tell us that the Jewish State will be virtually destroyed. Only a Christian remnant will survive. Any ideas of their general redemption, is false and will not happen.
This truth totally negates the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well when you look at the provisions of the covenant, it can't be gone into effect "someway". It is for Israel and Judah and concers all the Jews alive "after those days" which arefer directly back to "the days that are coming" which is when god makes the covenant with Israle and Judah. Once again after those days refer to the days when gods makes or cuts the new covenant with all of Israel and Judah. the question in unsureness with yo is when does God cut that new covenant with Israel? Well we know the results of the covenant as is described in 32-36 and we know the results happen "after those days" which are the "days that are coming" when God actually makes the covenant with Israel and Judah.

Let me give a weak human example. A covenant is like a contract made between two parties.

A city signs a contract with the firefighters to put out fires and insure the operational readiness of the hydrants. the people of the city are not part of that contract but receive benefits from that contract (if a fire happens the firefighters will come and put it out).

Though it fall sshort it shows why we benefit.

Teh covenant is made between god and Israel (the city and the firefighters) as a result of that contract we gentiles get blessed (our houses will be hosed down in a fire to minimize damage.) This is explained in Romans 11.

Teh blessing is for god and Israel (the city and the firefighters) but we have been included by being grafted in! It is not our covenant but God grafted us in to make the Jews jealous! I HOPE this didn't muddy thinks up worse.




Simply blood is necessary to ratify a COVENANT. in GENESIS WHEN GOD MADE A COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM,

Genesis 15:9-21
King James Version

9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites

Only god Himself walked between the parts after teh blood was shed.

Blood shed is the prioce of a covenant to affirm it.

Jesus blood is the proice that affirms teh new covenant to Israel, Just like the lambs blood was the price of the old.

So Yes the cross is part of the covenant- teh price paid and thee blood poured to frgive the sins, but it is not teh covenant.



Absollutely true!

so we have to look when "the days are coming" when god makes a new covenant (not just the blood of teh covenant, remember Jesus did not say His blood is the New covenent but the blood of the New Covenant- or the price) and as teh effects of teh covenant have not gone into effect, we know th ecovenant has not been enacted.

So the "days are coming" are still coming For we have no agreement betwen god and all Israel, so "after thosed ays" the results of the covenant going into effect, have not happened yet either.

I want to focus on the difference between "making" a covenant and the "benefits" of the covenant, based on the Genesis passage that you quoted. In that passage Abraham cuts animals in half, and God walks between the cuttings. From my perspective, the moment God walked between the cuttings, he "made" or "established" the Covenant. And we also know that the promises, benefits, and terms of the covenant were realized much later than that.

So then, couldn't we say the same thing about Jeremiah 31:31 with respect to the cross of Christ? Couldn't we say that Yahweh Adonai made/established the covenant with the house of Judah and the House of Israel the moment Jesus died on the cross, even though the effects or terms of the covenant will come much later?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I want to focus on the difference between "making" a covenant and the "benefits" of the covenant, based on the Genesis passage that you quoted. In that passage Abraham cuts animals in half, and God walks between the cuttings. From my perspective, the moment God walked between the cuttings, he "made" or "established" the Covenant. And we also know that the promises, benefits, and terms of the covenant were realized much later than that.

So then, couldn't we say the same thing about Jeremiah 31:31 with respect to the cross of Christ? Couldn't we say that Yahweh Adonai made/established the covenant with the house of Judah and the House of Israel the moment Jesus died on the cross, even though the effects or terms of the covenant will come much later?

Yes teh benefits of the Abrahamic covenant are still being enjoyed after all these thousands of years. But each covenant stands by itself. there is no one rule of time for covenants to be made and then the benefits go into effect.

The days are coming in Jer. 31 describe the time period when God makes the new covenant with both house of physical jews.
The "after those days" if we read like we should read a passage like this shows us what happens next referring back to the action of "the days that are coming". Unless God put in a modifying clause saying these events were to be separated by a lengthy time frame, then we know the days happen, then after those days happen next!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Read Galatians 6:14-16.
Proof that Christians are the Israelites of God.

The Anti-Christ will make a 7 year treaty of peace with the leaders of the new Christian nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

People who get nasty and accusative when their beliefs are challenged, are obviously the ones who lack scriptural proofs for their beliefs.

Get this: more than 20 Prophesies tell us that the Jewish State will be virtually destroyed. Only a Christian remnant will survive. Any ideas of their general redemption, is false and will not happen.
This truth totally negates the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory.

Virtually is correct- 2/3 during the seven years of of Jacobs trouble to be exact.

but if I have to choose to reads teh bible according ot the Inspiration of God or the bible according to the retranslation of Kerasz- I think I pick gods translation versus yours. sorry but He is bigger and stronger than you.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes teh benefits of the Abrahamic covenant are still being enjoyed after all these thousands of years. But each covenant stands by itself. there is no one rule of time for covenants to be made and then the benefits go into effect.

The days are coming in Jer. 31 describe the time period when God makes the new covenant with both house of physical jews.
The "after those days" if we read like we should read a passage like this shows us what happens next referring back to the action of "the days that are coming". Unless God put in a modifying clause saying these events were to be separated by a lengthy time frame, then we know the days happen, then after those days happen next!

But why would it need to be that way? This behavior is typical of God. Deuteronomy, for instance, is filled with promises God has yet to fulfill, even after thousands of years. Did Peter say that a day is like a thousand years, etc.?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But why would it need to be that way? This behavior is typical of God. Deuteronomy, for instance, is filled with promises God has yet to fulfill, even after thousands of years. Did Peter say that a day is like a thousand years, etc.?

Well the covenant has not gone into effect, but salvation is available to all. the covenant does not sy anything about how salvation is gotten, just that all Israel at that time will be saved!

Remember until the church was born, we gentiles as Paul said were without hope and without God in this world.

And it doesn't NEED to be that way, it just is that way. We do not have the right to twist Scripture to make it appear the covenant is in effect. we simply look at the promise, scour history to see if it has happened and declare it fulfilled or unfulfilled. In this case it is unfulfilled. So we await its fulfilment to the people of physical Israel.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Why does it say the "New Covenant" Jesus made is only for the Jews?

Hebrews 8:8 - But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

MY Bible has more than one verse. How about yours.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well the covenant has not gone into effect, but salvation is available to all. the covenant does not sy anything about how salvation is gotten, just that all Israel at that time will be saved!

Remember until the church was born, we gentiles as Paul said were without hope and without God in this world.

And it doesn't NEED to be that way, it just is that way. We do not have the right to twist Scripture to make it appear the covenant is in effect. we simply look at the promise, scour history to see if it has happened and declare it fulfilled or unfulfilled. In this case it is unfulfilled. So we await its fulfilment to the people of physical Israel.

Where in scripture does it say that there can't be a delay between the Fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31 and 31:33? In other words, aren't you forcing a restriction that isn't specified?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Where in scripture does it say that there can't be a delay between the Fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31 and 31:33? In other words, aren't you forcing a restriction that isn't specified?

Well to get teh full picture, you would need to take an eschatology course. the full one I teach is a year long at 2 hours a week. But to summarize what the prophets teach.

during the tribulation 2/3 of all Jewish people will be killed.
The remaining 1/3 will be purified and call upon the Lord.
This national salvation of the surviving 1/3 Jews and crying out "blessed is He..." causes the Lord to return.
This happens in teh last three days of teh 70th week of Daniel or the last 3 days of the tribulation. So there is a delay of days, probably even several weeks between Israel entering onto teh covenant, and them enjoying it, but not years, decades or centuries.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well to get teh full picture, you would need to take an eschatology course. the full one I teach is a year long at 2 hours a week. But to summarize what the prophets teach.

during the tribulation 2/3 of all Jewish people will be killed.
The remaining 1/3 will be purified and call upon the Lord.
This national salvation of the surviving 1/3 Jews and crying out "blessed is He..." causes the Lord to return.
This happens in teh last three days of teh 70th week of Daniel or the last 3 days of the tribulation. So there is a delay of days, probably even several weeks between Israel entering onto teh covenant, and them enjoying it, but not years, decades or centuries.

I get all that. It seems to me, however, the idea that the cross fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31, with a delayed fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:33, remains compatible with the perspective that you outlined above.

As I see it, you are making two assumptions that may or may not be true:
1) All of Jeremiah 31:31-34 must take place within a narrow time frame, and
2) All of Jeremiah 31:31-34 comprises a single idea, rather than two connected ideas.

My view does not make those two assumptions, and yet, it remains compatible with your eschatology.

P.S. Have you done a study of Joel? If so, did you publish your findings online where I might read it? I would love to hear your thoughts on the Joel prophecy. Maybe in another thread? I'm considering making a video outlining my interpretation of Joel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I get all that. It seems to me, however, the idea that the cross fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31, with a delayed fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:33, remains compatible with the perspective that you outlined above.

As I see it, you are making two assumptions that may or may not be true:
1) All of Jeremiah 31:31-34 must take place within a narrow time frame, and
2) All of Jeremiah 31:31-34 comprises a single idea, rather than two connected ideas.

My view does not make those two assumptions, and yet, it remains compatible with your eschatology.

P.S. Have you done a study of Joel? If so, did you publish your findings online where I might read it? I would love to hear your thoughts on the Joel prophecy. Maybe in another thread? I'm considering making a video outlining my interpretation of Joel.

Well, that is the standard accepted belief among many. And I will not condemn a person for holding that. I held it for decades! but the fact remains.

Jesus' blood is not the new covenant, but is the blood of the covenant. To the 1st century Jewish mind, they understood that as the price paid for the covenant, but not the covenant. Just like in Genesis with Abraham, the animals were killed, the blood shed and the parties walked through the split animals.

Jesus now is still called the mediator of the Covenant in the bible. A mediator is employed when one or both sides have not fully agreed to the terms of teh document (here the new covenant) God agrees, but Israel has not so Jesus is still mediating or negotiating with Israel. The last 3 days of teh tribulation, the veil is removed from Israel, (1 cor.). All Israel will be saved (Roman 11, Ez. 20, ZEch 12) and they will cry blessed is He... (Matt. 17) and cause the Lord to return. then the covenant goes into effect in those days that are coming, aqnd after those days when the covenant goes into effect- the terms of the covenant happen.

In order for thisd to be fulfilled, it has to be fulfilled exactly, or it is false prophecy. Close enough is not good enough with god! If He says it, He will do it as He says itr, not how someone reinterprets HIs Word.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well, that is the standard accepted belief among many. And I will not condemn a person for holding that. I held it for decades! but the fact remains.

Jesus' blood is not the new covenant, but is the blood of the covenant. To the 1st century Jewish mind, they understood that as the price paid for the covenant, but not the covenant. Just like in Genesis with Abraham, the animals were killed, the blood shed and the parties walked through the split animals.

Jesus now is still called the mediator of the Covenant in the bible. A mediator is employed when one or both sides have not fully agreed to the terms of teh document (here the new covenant) God agrees, but Israel has not so Jesus is still mediating or negotiating with Israel. The last 3 days of teh tribulation, the veil is removed from Israel, (1 cor.). All Israel will be saved (Roman 11, Ez. 20, ZEch 12) and they will cry blessed is He... (Matt. 17) and cause the Lord to return. then the covenant goes into effect in those days that are coming, aqnd after those days when the covenant goes into effect- the terms of the covenant happen.

In order for thisd to be fulfilled, it has to be fulfilled exactly, or it is false prophecy. Close enough is not good enough with god! If He says it, He will do it as He says itr, not how someone reinterprets HIs Word.

I agree that Jesus' blood is the price paid for the New Covenant. The New Covenant is "believe in my son Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

 

[Brakelite]

God says that the antichrist is going to make a 7 year treaty with Israel

Well to get teh full picture, you would need to take an eschatology course. the full one I teach is a year long at 2 hours a week. But to summarize what the prophets teach.

during the tribulation 2/3 of all Jewish people will be killed.
The remaining 1/3 will be purified and call upon the Lord.
This national salvation of the surviving 1/3 Jews and crying out "blessed is He..." causes the Lord to return.
This happens in teh last three days of teh 70th week of Daniel or the last 3 days of the tribulation. So there is a delay of days, probably even several weeks between Israel entering onto teh covenant, and them enjoying it, but not years, decades or centuries.

After all the above, it's not surprising you would say...

There was no church in trhe OT- there was Israel, those are not interchangable words.

And you are teaching this in a class to others!

 

[charity]

Well, that is the standard accepted belief among many. And I will not condemn a person for holding that. I held it for decades! but the fact remains.

Jesus' blood is not the new covenant, but is the blood of the covenant. To the 1st century Jewish mind, they understood that as the price paid for the covenant, but not the covenant. Just like in Genesis with Abraham, the animals were killed, the blood shed and the parties walked through the split animals.

Jesus now is still called the mediator of the Covenant in the bible. A mediator is employed when one or both sides have not fully agreed to the terms of the document (here the new covenant) God agrees, but Israel has not, so Jesus is still mediating or negotiating with Israel. The last 3 days of the tribulation, the veil is removed from Israel, (1 Cor.). All Israel will be saved (Roman 11, Ez. 20, Zech 12) and they will cry blessed is He... (Matt. 17) and cause the Lord to return. then the covenant goes into effect in those days that are coming, and after those days when the covenant goes into effect- the terms of the covenant happen.

In order for this to be fulfilled, it has to be fulfilled exactly, or it is false prophecy. Close enough is not good enough with God! If He says it, He will do it as He says it, not how someone reinterprets His Word.

'And Moses came and called for the elders of the people,
and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
And all the people answered together, and said,
"All that the LORD hath spoken we will do."
And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.'
(Exo 19:7)

Hello there, @Ronald Nolette,

Forgive me for breaking into your discussion with @CadyandZoe, but something within your response has caught my eye.

Ronald Nolette said:-
Jesus now is still called the mediator of the Covenant in the bible. A mediator is employed when one or both sides have not fully agreed to the terms of the document (here the new covenant) God agrees, but Israel has not

* Is this so?
Moses as the Mediator of the Old Covenant, made at Sinai between God and Israel is an example for us. A mediator is a 'go between' or a 'reconciler', and we see time and time again where Moses had to Mediate between the children of Israel and God, during their wilderness journey, standing in the gap and reconciling God on behalf of Israel, when God wanted to bring judgment upon them, because of their behaviour. Yet Israel had agreed to the terms of the covenant made at Sinai, there was no disagreement as to the terms of it.

Though the blood of the New Covenant has been shed, I agree that the New Covenant has yet to be made with Israel. All being at present in abeyance, because of their unbelief.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Why does it say the "New Covenant" Jesus made is only for the Jews?

Hebrews 8:8 - But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

'Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
that I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put My law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God,
and they shall be My People.'
(Jer 31:31-33)

Hello @Mike Tang 1991,

I have not read through all of your thread, only this last page, because I have taken part in so many threads concerning the New Covenant, but thought I would look back and see how the thread began, so here I am.

You ask 'Why' the new covenant is only for the Jew? It is because it is only with the children of Israel that God made a covenant at all: which they have broken. God has prepared a new covenant, and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ shed at Calvary is the blood of the new covenant. It will be made with Israel and Judah as stipulated in Jeremiah 31:31 (quoted above).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And you are teaching this in a class to others!

Have for over 3 decades now.

biblically the church is defined as those believers born of the Spirit of God which did not start happening until Pentecost! OT Israel are saints but not the church, TRribulation believers are saints but not the Church. Even Rev. 19 shows people in heaven who are not the church rejoicing that teh bride is marrying jesus.

Israel is trhe wife of Jehovah, the church is the bride of Christ!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Moses as the Mediator of the Old Covenant, made at Sinai between God and Israel is an example for us. A mediator is a 'go between' or a 'reconciler', and we see time and time again where Moses had to Mediate between the children of Israel and God, during their wilderness journey, standing in the gap and reconciling God on behalf of Israel, when God wanted to bring judgment upon them, because of their behaviour. Yet Israel had agreed to the terms of the covenant made at Sinai, there was no disagreement as to the terms of it.

Though the blood of the New Covenant has been shed, I agree that the New Covenant has yet to be made with Israel. All being at present in abeyance, because of their unbelief.

HI Charity.

Yes Moses mediated between god and Israel many times. but only mediated the Old covenant once. Once Israel said they will do it, there is no longer a need to mediate the covenant, it is now in force or in effect. That is how mediation works when a contract or covenant is being done.

Reconciliation to the terms of the covenant is a different matter and not mediating the covenant over and over again!