Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
My apologies.
May the Lord bless you in your finding a house church or in starting one.
New Testament Church vs Modern Church
- Thread starter Wynona
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My apologies.
May the Lord bless you in your finding a house church or in starting one.
I see larger church facilities to be a real blessing to the congregation. Having classrooms and fellowship halls and all that kind of thing, just wonderful to be able to have access to. And not all early churches were house churches. Paul rented space in a college. And the Antioch, the first gentile church, was a mega-church.
Much love!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Pathfinder7
Well-Known Member
To:OP/Wynona
---
Many churches focus too much..
- on status/recognition & assets/money..
- nicely packaged weekly programs/services.
---
I was involved in several churches.
- Denominational & Nondenominational.
- From mega church..to house church.
- During my spiritual journey..since 1970's.
---
Many churches focus too much..
- on status/recognition & assets/money..
- nicely packaged weekly programs/services.
---
I was involved in several churches.
- Denominational & Nondenominational.
- From mega church..to house church.
- During my spiritual journey..since 1970's.
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marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
A key question to this topic is what is the bible for? Something to carry around?Something to take to a Sunday meeting just in case we need it? Something to read to children? Something to avoid if possible? Something that is the word of God to be ignored if possible? Something that we can have a bit of discussion about? Something that we read because we are told to? I am sure you can add your own ideas to this list.
OR.....
Is it God's direction for the saints, the church, and Christian living? If that is the case, why do we turn a blind eye to what it says as what it says we consider hypothetical?
If we read any given passage at any given time surely what it says is there to guide us in what we do. If it doesn't what is the point of reading it?
The only reason I read the bible is to learn something about God's ways and thinking which in turn should govern my ways and thinking. If it doesn't then there is no point in reading it..
OR.....
Is it God's direction for the saints, the church, and Christian living? If that is the case, why do we turn a blind eye to what it says as what it says we consider hypothetical?
If we read any given passage at any given time surely what it says is there to guide us in what we do. If it doesn't what is the point of reading it?
The only reason I read the bible is to learn something about God's ways and thinking which in turn should govern my ways and thinking. If it doesn't then there is no point in reading it..
So we told our pastoring couple that we'd take a bit of a break to decide whether to continue attending BUT when I prayed about it, God said his blessing was on the church and we could keep going. We have decided to keep attending for now.
For a while, none of the house churches responded to my email and the one that did respond is about an hour and a half away. We do plan to visit that one to see what house church is like. But I don't see us driving there every Sunday.
For a while, none of the house churches responded to my email and the one that did respond is about an hour and a half away. We do plan to visit that one to see what house church is like. But I don't see us driving there every Sunday.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
All early churches were house churches as they had not built anything with bricks and mortar. The scripture is clear they went from house to house, not building to building and as the NTC started with 3,000 believers the only way they could accommodate such an instantaneous number was to meet in homes.
All NTC were mega-churches as in the church in Corinth. The church in Ephesus. The church in Rome. Nowhere does it say the churches (plural) in Ephesus. They met in homes and regardless of where the homes were, they were part of the church in Ephesus if the home was in Ephesus.
And nowhere does it say that the pastor is the leader of the church. Leadership was always a plurality of Elders who had grown up in the church and had proved themselves to be accountable and honorable. The list of qualifications is in Timothy. There are 26 verses in the New Testament that talk about leadership and not one of them mentions pastors.
So, God has set out a very clear pattern for us in scripture and we have chosen to ignore it and do things our way and as a result, it doesn't work evidenced by the number of pastors that resign every month or are sacked.
Johann
Well-Known Member
What Was the New Testament Church Like?
ARTICLE
What Was the New Testament Church Like?
Acts 2 house churches have a lot to teach today's small groups.
Joel Comiskey
We often quote Acts 2 when we talk about the kind of small groups we want. We love the picture of community in Acts 2:42-47:
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Before we commit to forming small groups that look like the Acts 2 community, though, let's discover what that community was really like.
The Flame Spreads through Houses
After the Spirit descended at Pentecost, the disciples formed house churches, modeling the strategy of Jesus when he sent his own into homes (Luke 9:1-6; Matthew 10:1-16). House-based ministry was so common that throughout the book of Acts, every mention of a local church or church meeting, whether for worship or fellowship, is a reference to a church meeting in a home.
House churches played an essential role in the rapid growth and ultimate triumph of Christianity, and it's safe to say that the first three centuries belonged to the house-church movement. House-to-house ministry allowed the believers to challenge the social order of the day. They became witnesses—through their words, lives, and suffering. Because of their small size, house churches maintained a family-like atmosphere and practiced brotherly love in personal and effective ways.
Inside a New Testament House Church
What did they do in those early house churches? The activity was diverse and spontaneous but always centered on belief in the risen Jesus. We know they broke bread together, following their Master's instructions to remember his death and resurrection (e.g., Luke 22:7-38). Everyone brought food and shared it. We don't know for certain if they celebrated the Lord's Supper every time they met, but we do know it was very common.
Beyond sharing the Lord's Supper together, the agenda for house church meetings was flexible. Paul wrote to the house church in Colossae, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God" (Colossians 3:16). Paul wanted the house church believers to encourage one another, share transparently, and rejoice in God's goodness. The members enjoyed each other's presence, laughed together, and drew near to Jesus.
Robert Banks writes, "We find no suggestion that these meetings were conducted with the kind of solemnity and formality that surrounds most weekly Christian gatherings today." At the same time, they accomplished a lot. Most scholars agree that the early house churches emphasized the following elements:
Developing Leaders Organically
Many are amazed at how quickly Paul developed leadership in the early church, but the early house churches were natural incubators for leadership. In Paul's church plants, we don't see formal leadership structures. The person who opened his or her home would assume leadership, and the rest of the leadership structure was already in place—Paul used the oikos structure that was already built into the social infrastructure.
Those leaders were only later given titles. In 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13, Paul says, "Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work." Paul is talking about house church leaders, but he didn't feel it was worth mentioning their exact title because they developed organically within the house-church structure.
Nowhere in the New Testament do we find a picture closely resembling any of the fully developed systems of today. Church government was not very highly developed, and local congregations were rather loosely knit groups. House churches in the New Testament existed side-by-side with other house churches. Individual believers and house churches considered themselves part of a greater citywide church. Church ministry was fluid and dynamic. Members were encouraged to experience their spiritual gifts for the common good of the body, and leaders operated as gifted men and women (Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, 27-28). This led to many opportunities for ordinary people to develop into leaders.
Embracing Acts 2 Community
The Western world is so different than the world of the first century church. They lived in close quarters with their neighbors, while many today live in private homes with security fences. Their lifestyle centered on the home. We drive to work, go out to eat, and find friends and hobbies away from our neighborhoods. They relaxed primarily with others, talking over a meal. We relax alone, staring at television and computer screens. Though we live in different times and cultures, many timeless principles apply directly to our small-group ministries:
ARTICLE
What Was the New Testament Church Like?
Acts 2 house churches have a lot to teach today's small groups.
Joel Comiskey
We often quote Acts 2 when we talk about the kind of small groups we want. We love the picture of community in Acts 2:42-47:
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Before we commit to forming small groups that look like the Acts 2 community, though, let's discover what that community was really like.
The Flame Spreads through Houses
After the Spirit descended at Pentecost, the disciples formed house churches, modeling the strategy of Jesus when he sent his own into homes (Luke 9:1-6; Matthew 10:1-16). House-based ministry was so common that throughout the book of Acts, every mention of a local church or church meeting, whether for worship or fellowship, is a reference to a church meeting in a home.
House churches played an essential role in the rapid growth and ultimate triumph of Christianity, and it's safe to say that the first three centuries belonged to the house-church movement. House-to-house ministry allowed the believers to challenge the social order of the day. They became witnesses—through their words, lives, and suffering. Because of their small size, house churches maintained a family-like atmosphere and practiced brotherly love in personal and effective ways.
Inside a New Testament House Church
What did they do in those early house churches? The activity was diverse and spontaneous but always centered on belief in the risen Jesus. We know they broke bread together, following their Master's instructions to remember his death and resurrection (e.g., Luke 22:7-38). Everyone brought food and shared it. We don't know for certain if they celebrated the Lord's Supper every time they met, but we do know it was very common.
Beyond sharing the Lord's Supper together, the agenda for house church meetings was flexible. Paul wrote to the house church in Colossae, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God" (Colossians 3:16). Paul wanted the house church believers to encourage one another, share transparently, and rejoice in God's goodness. The members enjoyed each other's presence, laughed together, and drew near to Jesus.
Robert Banks writes, "We find no suggestion that these meetings were conducted with the kind of solemnity and formality that surrounds most weekly Christian gatherings today." At the same time, they accomplished a lot. Most scholars agree that the early house churches emphasized the following elements:
Developing Leaders Organically
Many are amazed at how quickly Paul developed leadership in the early church, but the early house churches were natural incubators for leadership. In Paul's church plants, we don't see formal leadership structures. The person who opened his or her home would assume leadership, and the rest of the leadership structure was already in place—Paul used the oikos structure that was already built into the social infrastructure.
Those leaders were only later given titles. In 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13, Paul says, "Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work." Paul is talking about house church leaders, but he didn't feel it was worth mentioning their exact title because they developed organically within the house-church structure.
Nowhere in the New Testament do we find a picture closely resembling any of the fully developed systems of today. Church government was not very highly developed, and local congregations were rather loosely knit groups. House churches in the New Testament existed side-by-side with other house churches. Individual believers and house churches considered themselves part of a greater citywide church. Church ministry was fluid and dynamic. Members were encouraged to experience their spiritual gifts for the common good of the body, and leaders operated as gifted men and women (Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, 27-28). This led to many opportunities for ordinary people to develop into leaders.
Embracing Acts 2 Community
The Western world is so different than the world of the first century church. They lived in close quarters with their neighbors, while many today live in private homes with security fences. Their lifestyle centered on the home. We drive to work, go out to eat, and find friends and hobbies away from our neighborhoods. They relaxed primarily with others, talking over a meal. We relax alone, staring at television and computer screens. Though we live in different times and cultures, many timeless principles apply directly to our small-group ministries:
What Was the New Testament Church Like?
Acts 2 house churches have a lot to teach today's small groups.www.smallgroups.com
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The first congregation met at the temple, likely numbering around 10,000 after the first few days from Pentecost.
Much love!
The main thing is to realize that you are part of the body of Christ (Philippians 2:2-5), simply due to faith in the Gospel of Christ which is the power of god unto salvation (Romans 1:16) in which you become being part of the heavenly citizenship; (Philippians 3:20). While you are here on earth you have a company of believers that are in heaven with you, and you also have people here on earth (Hebrews 11:13) who are believers who you will get to interact with from time to times, to encourage you to continue in faith, and trust in God. Jesus said that those who do the will of God is his brother, mother, sister (Mark 3:35).
The New Testament - is really the New Covenant where God writes on the hearts and minds of individuals by and through his spirit (Jeremiah 31:31-33), and you become a child of God (John 1:12-13), or a Son or daughter of God (Romans 8:14). With a family of believers on earth, as well as in heaven, in the heavenly Jerusalem - (Hebrews 12:22-24).
@Wynona, it’s really about our heart. And you are free to go to any church you want to.
The New Testament - is really the New Covenant where God writes on the hearts and minds of individuals by and through his spirit (Jeremiah 31:31-33), and you become a child of God (John 1:12-13), or a Son or daughter of God (Romans 8:14). With a family of believers on earth, as well as in heaven, in the heavenly Jerusalem - (Hebrews 12:22-24).
@Wynona, it’s really about our heart. And you are free to go to any church you want to.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Cause they went to preach the message to the jews . They had to go to those temples . Paul did tooo.
He went into every jewish synagogue , TO PREACH THE KING JESUS .
I pray to GOD that no man woman or child dares to enter into the unholiest final end time satanic coventant
called the ABRAHAM ACCORD . BUT I BET MOST SUPPORT THIS DUNG PILE ...............dont they eh ...............
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
How many here support satans abraham accord covenant . I bet many do .
Bet many have been lulled into the LIE . As for me , ONLY CHRISTAINS WORSHIP the ONE TRUE GOD
not muslims , not other religoins . THIS abraham accord is right from ROME and JERSUALEM and its all A LIE .
Bet many have been lulled into the LIE . As for me , ONLY CHRISTAINS WORSHIP the ONE TRUE GOD
not muslims , not other religoins . THIS abraham accord is right from ROME and JERSUALEM and its all A LIE .
ScottA
Well-Known Member
- Feb 24, 2011
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Each generation gets its own allotment of challenges and progress in serving the Lord. But it is a two steps forward one step back routine leaving us personally not much more advanced as when we started--by design. Yes, we carry the water of the gospel and if we are determined we will gain in maturity, but "nothing new under the sun" means we also deliver to the next generation very much what we received and perhaps nothing more.
Again, this is by design, that each generation has a very equal opportunity to participate in the fall and salvation process of occupying these times appointed.
So then, it matters very little if we walk to church, ride in horse and buggy, or in a Lexus. Likewise, it matters very little how we congregate, or whether it is indoors or outdoors. Money's not a problem--it is God who has provided a dirt pavilion or a majestic cathedral. Our part is rather what we do with it, and yes, where we place our priorities. Regardless, God's work continues, as we could no more make things less than we could make them more. But it is rather that we show up with a heart to serve--which is not to say, we are to climb on the bandwagon of the current church machine, but to be onboard with God in spite of what may otherwise be being done well or poorly within that place that God has planted us. Yes, there are problems--so be rather a part of the solution.
God will do the rest.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
My bible says they went as a body to the temple (no mention of 10,000 which is not surprising as 3,000 were saved) BUT met in houses for meals, sharing their FOOD gladly and generously. Acts 2 v 47/48. Why did they go to the temple? Simple. Because they were Jews and did not stop being Jews because they were followers of Jesus who was a Jew, not a Christian, and the followers of Jesus were known as a sect of Judaism known as The Way.
The big mistake we make is looking at 33AD with 2022AD eyes. There is no comparison of practice or fact so unless we are conversant with the HISTORY behind the story we are like lost sheep. I have made it a practice to look at the story behind the story to gain a fuller understanding of what the scripture says and it has opened my eyes to what really happened.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Overall an excellent post. By the sound of things you have read Joel Comiskey's book on the subject.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
What sources are you using to get the story behind the story to gain a fuller understanding brother?
J.
Acts 2:41 KJV
41) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:46 KJV
46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 4:4 KJV
4) Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
3,000 the first day, 5,000 men the second day, we can figure that there were also women and children this second day. 10,000 people in the first few days is a conservative estimate.
Much love!
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
About three years ago I decided to investigate the background of the NTC. I read anything I could lay my hands on that explained the life they lived and the things they did. Such as The World Christ Knew and Spiritual life in the Early Church. All in all I probably read about 20 books. From them, I gained knowledge of the story behind the story.
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