new version of OSAS?

[Tong2020]

It is one of the ways on that list of 2...because you can't come to see that you play apart in your growth..yet it is written in so many places. But that's how I thought in the past....but I know better.

You say one thing, and then you go back to the same thinking...and the issue is the box...so destroy the box and you have nothing left but to see clear......read EPHESIANS 2: around 8 ...and please tell me what one is saved from? And do not add anything to it....

Because with that doctrine it skips phases...
One like regeneration....being born from above, and its skips entering into life now in the presence of God....

You may look at salvation that way. But salvation is a whole. The salvation of God is a whole, and it is not, if not taken as a whole. We might see stages therein, but those stages are meant to pass and certain of being accomplished by God, taken only as a whole to be what it is, that is, the salvation of God.

Tong
R3548

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Again my argument against that remains and remains not refuted.

No, you just can't hear what I'm saying. And most likely it's because you are so programmed in a particular vein of theology you can't hear any other view points. I encounter this problem a lot with reformist leaning believers.

I hear you loud and clear. We just see differently regarding that matter. You have your thoughts on me which you expressed in your post. I on the other hand, see you misusing the said passage.

Tong
R3549

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Repentance involves recognizing that you have thought wrongly in the past and determining to think rightly in the future.

The mistake BB's theology makes is repentance doesn't just mean recognizing that you have thought wrongly in the past about God, but includes recognizing that you have thought wrongly about sin in the past and have changed your mind about it. You HAVE to change your mind about sin in order to receive God's grace for that sin. His theology says that's a works gospel. Of course, it is not, because repentance does not buy you salvation. Nothing can buy it. The only way to receive salvation is to receive the forgiveness of your sin and the imputation of God's righteousness as a free gift. A change of mind about your sin is the state of mind in which one receives that free gift.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, others will suffer fire because of his error while he does not and only suffer lost of reward?

That is what the passage says.

Nope. For that goes against the good nature of God.

Tong
R3550

 

[amigo de christo]

Also, when you believed in the past, do you consider your getting to believe God and Jesus Christ was of your working or God’s?

God’s

Well , BB has this one RIGHT . I know it was God . I dont guess , I KNOW .
HE FLIPPED ME AROUND . He drew me to Christ .

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<But you can't see that it doesn't have to only mean what you say it means. >>>

I do see. But that is not the point I am making there.

Oh, trust me, I know that, lol.

Yes I trust you do. Because you just have acknowledged and agreed to my point.

Tong
R3551

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I hear you loud and clear. We just see differently regarding that matter. You have your thoughts on me which you expressed in your post. I on the other hand, see you misusing the said passage.

Tong
R3549

Your whole problem is you can't understand that if you're building the house of God that is composed of people, people are the building material you use to build it. And it is that material that may or may not get burned up when that building gets tested in the fires of the coming judgment to see what quality the materials you built it with are.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes I trust you do. Because you just have acknowledged and agreed to my point.

Tong
R3551

No, I don't agree that John 8:31 means disciples of Christ will never stop being disciples. It simply means when disciples of Christ believe they continue in Jesus' words. As opposed to the person who believes and then does nothing else and the word of God is not retained by them. They, obviously, by definition, are not a disciple of Christ. It has nothing to do with if they ever really were saved, or will always continue to be saved. It simply means a person who does not remain in Christ's teaching is not a disciple of Christ's.

 

[Corlove13]

You may look at salvation that way. But salvation is a whole. The salvation of God is a whole, and it is not, if not taken as a whole. We might see stages therein, but those stages are meant to pass and certain of being accomplished by God, taken only as a whole to be what it is, that is, the salvation of God.

Tong
R3548

Sounds like you want to stick in the box...
and until you come out you will see what you see....but God is not limited to OSAS box.

 

[HisLife]

Yes all men, believers and unbelievers for that matter, lie somehow. And by that we are all liars. Are all men going to the lake of fire, liars all as they are? Nope.

Exactly as I tried to point out, All men are Liars the difference is, The child of God are in Christ and Christ is in them

There is a difference between the legitimate child of God and the illegitimate, much more between the legitimate child of God and the unbelievers. The legitimate child of God are in Christ and Christ is in them, but not so with the others.

I agree But the context of the discussion I would add that The Legitimate Child Of God Will receive discipline, The illegitimate as you describe would be of another Father in that context, If you are able to live in sin and there be no consequence you would have to question legitimacy of course, but the question was for shock factor, They where trying to raise a man's Sin above What Jesus Blood Is able to pay for

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And why would they suffer fire if they believed the falseness taught them by the servant builder or for whatever it is that the servant builder did or did not do?

Because, ultimately, that's what they want to believe.

That I’d say is poor reasoning and goes against your erroneous take that they are the servant builder’s works. And of they are their works in that passage, then they are responsible for them. If they are burned in fire, it is because of the servant builder’s doing and so are responsible for it. To reason that they have nothing to with it as to not be responsible is a lame excuse and way to justify what wrong they have done, and altogether pass the responsibility and the punishment thereof to others.

Tong
R3552

 

[Corlove13]

The mistake BB's theology makes is repentance doesn't just mean recognizing that you have thought wrongly in the past about God, but includes recognizing that you have thought wrongly about sin in the past and have changed your mind about it. You HAVE to change your mind about sin in order to receive God's grace for that sin. His theology says that's a works gospel. Of course, it is not, because repentance does not buy you salvation. Nothing can buy it. The only way to receive salvation is to receive the forgiveness of your sin and the imputation of God's righteousness as a free gift. A change of mind about your sin is the state of mind in which one receives that free gift.

Well continue to pray that He can come out of that box...That is why I told Him to read Ephesian 2:8....It's better to direct them to scriptures....Like what are we saved from in EPHESIANS.........then what does scripture say the reason He saved us....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

And why does "metanoia:" not mean to change ones mind about sin? if, as you say, the fact is that it means chance one's mind about Jesus, please substantiate that so-called fact... show me where you got that interpretation from?

You, and those on your end of this are now making words mean what you choose for them to mean. There is absoluely no reason why the term would not mean to change our mind about sin, none whatsoever, and you have given us no reason to believe it means to change our mind about Jesus.

You all are writing your own bible.

This is a valid and excellent point being brought forth here.....In all of my years of debating this subject , this is the first time that I have encountered this “ take” on the word “ metanoia” ,which means “ mind change” and is the word that the Bible translators called “ repentance”.....I will address this as soon as I get the chance....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s like saying, “ Okay, God.... lets make a deal .....if you promise to save me, I’ll promise not to sin on purpose ever again!”

No, the deal is, "if you believe, and keep on believing, I will save you." The part you're not comprehending is purposely sinning in unbelief is breaking your part of the deal to believe and keep on believing. Purposely sinning is nothing more than a rejection of the grace of God in Christ. It has nothing to do with no longer having works to earn you salvation. But that's seems to be the only way you can hear it.

 

[HisLife]

The mistake BB's theology makes is repentance doesn't just mean recognizing that you have thought wrongly in the past about God, but includes recognizing that you have thought wrongly about sin in the past and have changed your mind about it. You HAVE to change your mind about sin in order to receive God's grace for that sin. His theology says that's a works gospel. Of course, it is not, because repentance does not buy you salvation. Nothing can buy it. The only way to receive salvation is to receive the forgiveness of your sin and the imputation of God's righteousness as a free gift. A change of mind about your sin is the state of mind in which one receives that free gift.

That's such bad misrepresentation and I think you know that

 

[Corlove13]

Asked why was Abraham justified?
And how many times was Abraham justified before God?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And why then that servant builder, who taught them falseness, or have done or not have done something relative to that, not suffer fire?

Because he himself may not be affected by his own theology. Let's use type 2 Osas as an example. A teacher may tell lots of believers that it doesn't matter how they live and it won't affect their salvation. Some believers may hear that teaching then proceed to live in the willful sinning of unbelief, while the person who taught them that theology never does that and keeps believing to the very end. He himself will be saved while his students may not.

The prosperity gospel is another example. A teacher may teach people how they can become rich by serving God and giving to God. Riches may never become an idol to the teacher himself, but it may lead some people who hear his theology into the destruction of the love of money. Those teachers will have placed people into the building of God who will burn up as hay, wood, and stubble when Jesus comes back, but he himself will be saved.

<<<Because he himself may not be affected by his own theology.>>>

What? This is becoming more interesting. If he teaches a false doctrine, are you saying he is not affected by it? And if he teaches a false doctrine, is he not a false teacher? Now, what do you know what scriptures says about false teachers?

And it seems that you have saved people who are servant builders who will be saved, but are free to send others to condemnation? Wow! Well, they will lose rewards for that, right? This is really getting to be an interestingly strange doctrine. This doctrine sure would appeal to many, among them are the prosperity gospel preachers out there today.

Tong
R3553

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is a valid and excellent point being brought forth here.....In all of my years of debating this subject , this is the first time that I have encountered this “ take” on the word “ metanoia” ,which means “ mind change” and is the word that the Bible translators called “ repentance”.....I will address this as soon as I get the chance....

I have never verified if this is true or not, but I was taught that 'repent' is a military term to stop and do an about face and begin marching in the opposite direction. I've been out of the military so long I forgot what the English command was to do that, but we did it until we could do it in our sleep. Any vets out there that can help me remember? (I just looked it up, but let's see who remembers).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What? This is becoming more interesting. If he teaches a false doctrine, are you saying he is not affected by it? And if he teaches a false doctrine, is he not a false teacher? Now, what do you know what scriptures says about false teachers?

Why is it so hard for you to understand my posts???? This is getting irritating. I explained it to you using the example of type 2 Osas, and the prosperity gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And it seems that you have saved people who are servant builders who will be saved, but are free to send others to condemnation?

You either really can not understand my posts, or you're purposely demonizing what I say. Which one is it?