new version of OSAS?

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't you think this is self-serving? Certainly not serving Christ. Certainly no love for your fellow Christians.
Now that I am saved I am going sit like a bump on a log, no use to God or anyone else....just looking out for myself....going to heaven. If that is what it is all about to you....good luck.

yep.

And God saved this person who never had faith?

Why do you think he had faith. let alone God saved that person and made them into a new creature?

Why does he still act like a dog? (non believer) if he was transformed into a new creation?

 

[Tong2020]

If a non believer does nothing....do you think they will be saved or go to heaven?

Even a non believer does something, he could not get himself saved, more so, keep and maintain to be what he is not, that is, saved.

And I am sure you know a lot about what the world thinks and does in their attempt to have eternal life or save themselves from going to hell or to go to heaven or to somewhere they would rather be in the afterlife. That many go about it even with determination and zeal. Do you think they will be saved and go to heaven? Of course the answer is no. As you claim to know of the obvious:

God is the Savior. Man is the one being saved. He is not the savior of himself.

Tong
R3617

 

[Grailhunter]

Why would a person who has FAITH do nothing?

BETTER YET. how can they?

if doing something is required. We earn salvation.

Not of works lest anyone should boast. why would you even think of boasting after what we saw the jews do?

You missed the point...?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Even a non believer does something, he could not get himself saved, more so, keep and maintain to be what he is not, that is, saved.

And I am sure you know a lot about what the world thinks and does in their attempt to have eternal life or save themselves from going to hell or to go to heaven or to somewhere they would rather be in the afterlife. That many go about it even with determination and zeal. Do you think they will be saved and go to heaven? Of course the answer is no. As you claim to know of the obvious:

God is the Savior. Man is the one being saved. He is not the savior of himself.

Tong
R3617

remember. Jews were non believers.but when it came to the law they were the harders workers that there ever were.. And they did it all to get to heaven. its also why they rejected christ. Because Christ said nothing they did would help them. all their works were in vein

 

[Grailhunter]

Even a non believer does something, he could not get himself saved, more so, keep and maintain to be what he is not, that is, saved.

And I am sure you know a lot about what the world thinks and does in their attempt to have eternal life or save themselves from going to hell or to go to heaven or to somewhere they would rather be in the afterlife. That many go about it even with determination and zeal. Do you think they will be saved and go to heaven? Of course the answer is no. As you claim to know of the obvious:

God is the Savior. Man is the one being saved. He is not the savior of himself.

Tong
R3617

Again the question is...If a non believer does nothing....do you think they will be saved or go to heaven?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You missed the point...?

Nope

Your missing the point. Your trying to insert works to salvation..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again the question is...If a non believer does nothing....do you think they will be saved or go to heaven?

if a non believers does every work possible. they will still fall short. For all have sinned and fall short.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Firstly, my question is about man’s salvation from the situation Adam had brought them into and from where they are headed, that is, in the lake of fire a.k.a. Hell, the second death.

As I explained...from the Old Testament perspective hell and the lake of fire was not relevant. At that point they were not a threat. The phrase Judgment Day does not appear in the Old Testament.
In the Old Testament Sheol is the only destination that is discussed and it was a permanent destination. Again God did not promise heaven in the Old Testament. Everything in the Old Testament is about preventing punishment in the physical....that is the wrath of God....

Salvation goes way back even before the Old Covenant times, even at the time of the fall of Adam. As I already qualified the salvation I was talking about, it is relevant to all mankind and generation.

Down from the time of the fall of Adam up to the old and to new covenants times, even while you say that in the old covenant times judgement day is not spoken of, or of heaven or of hell, it does not take away the truth of all those things. Not that those were not spoken of in the old covenant, that it means people during those times need not be saved from going to hell and the second death. All people who are not saved, down from fallen Adam’s time to the new covenant times, will be cast in the lake of fire, and experience the second death.

So, let me ask again, why does man need a savior from his fallen state and situation and from going to hell?

Tong
R3618

 

[Grailhunter]

remember. Jews were non believers.but when it came to the law they were the harders workers that there ever were.. And they did it all to get to heaven. its also why they rejected christ. Because Christ said nothing they did would help them. all their works were in vein

How many things can you get mixed up about.

The Jew were believers in God and were not told that the Messiah would be a God...

but when it came to the law they were the harders workers that there ever were.. And they did it all to get to heaven

Wrong again! The Jews worked hard to Keep the Law to be obedient to God and prevent His wrath, but they were never offered heaven as a destination....reward.

its also why they rejected christ. Because Christ said nothing they did would help them. all their works were in vein

Christ never said attempting to obey the Mosaic Law was a bad thing, but by design there was no opportunity for salvation. There were a lot of reasons why they rejected Christ but one of them was that they considered someone saying they were a God as sacrilegious. Other than that Christ disagreed with how they were teaching the Mosaic Law and how they justified the disparity of wealth and disregard to fellow Christians...See the Sheep and Goat parable.

 

[Grailhunter]

Nope

Your missing the point. Your trying to insert works to salvation..

Again a lie.

 

[Grailhunter]

Salvation goes way back even before the Old Covenant times

Nope.

All people who are not saved, down from fallen Adam’s time to the new covenant times, will be cast in the lake of fire, and experience the second death.

Although this is a common belief...I disagree.

So, let me ask again, why does man need a savior from his fallen state and situation and from going to hell?

I have already answered that question.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
All I have now is to live my life and experience life with my Savior. And I am persuaded that He saved me because He love me, and for good reason and purpose.

Don't you think this is self-serving? Certainly not serving Christ. Certainly no love for your fellow Christians.
Now that I am saved I am going sit like a bump on a log, no use to God or anyone else....just looking out for myself....going to heaven. If that is what it is all about to you....good luck.

Read the last part of my statement “…for good reason and purpose.”

So, will you not tell us how it was in your case? How were you converted? Or in line with your thinking, how have you gotten yourself to be converted?

Tong
R3619

 

[Corlove13]

Salvation

Your point?

So what?

The truth remains.

God is the Savior. He sent Jesus Christ to that effect.

Man is the one being saved. He is not the savior of himself.

Tong
R3611

In Noah's Day ....the Ark also would save and it was Salvation. But it didn't save everyone, why?

Because the faith that saves is a faith that acts....
Why didn't the people act? Why didn't they too help build the ark, and get in the ark? The ark saved right?


You think Gen 6 may help give an answer?
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

What did He do?

He "walked" WITH God

Think about Jesus being the beginning and the end.....He did it all...all the work is finished...He conquer death

Our Part is to walk in what is already been finished...

Basically to live out His teaching, for what He taught He also lived.

And we too will conquer this world in which we now are living....with the presence of God..
His presence is Life....and it's His life that is the force that continues to teach us How to live Holy.

If you limit grace to Osas you will never see...

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Even a non believer does something, he could not get himself saved, more so, keep and maintain to be what he is not, that is, saved.

And I am sure you know a lot about what the world thinks and does in their attempt to have eternal life or save themselves from going to hell or to go to heaven or to somewhere they would rather be in the afterlife. That many go about it even with determination and zeal. Do you think they will be saved and go to heaven? Of course the answer is no. As you claim to know of the obvious:

God is the Savior. Man is the one being saved. He is not the savior of himself.

Again the question is...If a non believer does nothing....do you think they will be saved or go to heaven?

Did you miss my answer to that? The post you quoted is my answer. Also, my conversion is an answer to that even.

If you did not get that, let me help you with that. One’s conversion unto his salvation is the work and doing of God, not the work and doing of the person.

Tong
R3620

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Again...do nothing and see what happens.

What will happen is that the person that does nothing will be like Abel....The person that “ DOES” something will be like Cain....2 nd oldest Story in the Bible , and your “ take-away” from that example purposely set up by God as an example to ALL is ZERO.....

Reading God's Word and not comprehending it is a complete waste of time.....is there anybody in your neighborhood that you could loan your Bible to that could actually benefit from it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How many things can you get mixed up about.

The Jew were believers in God and were not told that the Messiah would be a God...

but when it came to the law they were the harders workers that there ever were.. And they did it all to get to heaven

Wrong again! The Jews worked hard to Keep the Law to be obedient to God and prevent His wrath, but they were never offered heaven as a destination....reward.

its also why they rejected christ. Because Christ said nothing they did would help them. all their works were in vein

Christ never said attempting to obey the Mosaic Law was a bad thing, but by design there was no opportunity for salvation. There were a lot of reasons why they rejected Christ but one of them was that they considered someone saying they were a God as sacrilegious. Other than that Christ disagreed with how they were teaching the Mosaic Law and how they justified the disparity of wealth and disregard to fellow Christians...See the Sheep and Goat parable.

What your telling me is the truth. Concerning most jews. They were continually unbelievers

But even david understood. Saying sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire. and blessed is the one for whom God does not input sin.

rom 4: 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

In the same passage. Paul made it clear. Abraham, who was before the law was made righteous by his faith. not by works.

they rejected christ because of their FALSE understanding of the law. Not because they could not know

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation


In Noah's Day ....the Ark also would save and it was Salvation. But it didn't save everyone, why?

Because the faith that saves is a faith that acts....
Why didn't the people act? Why didn't they too help build the ark, and get in the ark? The ark saved right?


You think Gen 6 may help give an answer?
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

What did He do?

He "walked" WITH God

Think about Jesus being the beginning and the end.....He did it all...all the work is finished...He conquer death

Our Part is to walk in what is already been finished...

Basically to live out His teaching, for what He taught He also lived.

And we too will conquer this world in which we now are living....with the presence of God..
His presence is Life....and it's His life that is the force that continues to teach us How to live Holy.

If you limit grace to Osas you will never see...

Why did Noah walk with God

Because he had faith

Noah was SAVED by his faith.

Because of his faith he was made a child of God

Because of this, Noah walked with God and God walked with him

To add works to Osas or grace is to nullify both.

 

[Corlove13]

My point was clear in my post.

God is the Savior. Man is the one being saved. He is not the savior of himself.

Do you agree with that or not?

Here’s another question.

What is the reason man need a savior?

Tong
R3612

AS POINTED OUT TO ADDY

SHOULDN'T HE BE YOUR LORD........AND SAVIOR...

WHEN YOU BELIEVED THE GOSPEL.....THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO YOU.....I BET WAS NOT THAT JESUS IS WHO GOD SAYS HE IS...

THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD..........................THE CREATOR, KING, COUNSELOR, PRINCE OF PEACE, LORD.

THE GOSPEL YOU HEARD WAS JESUS DIED SO YOU CAN HAVE HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE...AND IF YOU BELIEVE THIS YOU ARE SAVED...

BUT THAT IS PART OF IT....THEY TOLD PEOPLE WHAT JESUS DID........SO THEY WOULD TRUST IN HIM....."FIRST"....MANY TRUST WHAT HE DID BEFORE THEY HAVE TRUSTED HIM AS KING ONE WHO HAS SAY OVER EVERYTHING....ETC

WHEN HE CLEANSED PEOPLE, AND HEALED PEOPLE....AND TOLD THEM TO SIN NO MORE....DID HE DO IT WITH HIS BLOOD? OR BECAUSE GOD WAS IN HIM WHERE HE WOULD BE MAGNIFIED SO PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE ON HIM

The New Cov...bridges our lives on earth to have a relationship with God. AND IT BEGINS HERE......a relationship....if you have a relationship now....[and not talking about you individually, but any body, as "you"] then what would God do with His friends here now on earth....don't you think they would be with Him when they physically die.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Salvation goes way back even before the Old Covenant times

Nope.

Oh yes it does. So tell us what you teach regarding that. I am curious of that strange position.

Tong2020 said: ↑
All people who are not saved, down from fallen Adam’s time to the new covenant times, will be cast in the lake of fire, and experience the second death.

Although this is a common belief...I disagree.

And what do you teach regarding that matter?

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, let me ask again, why does man need a savior from his fallen state and situation and from going to hell

I have already answered that question.

Well if you say so. But let me help you with that.

Fallen man needs a savior because for one, he cannot save himself. If he could, he wouldn’t need a savior to get out from his fallen state and escape hell, the second death. He needs a savior because he is like a dead man in that regard. He is in a corrupted state, having a “body of death” where sin dwells, and a heart whose every intent is evil continually, enslaved and corrupted by sin.

Tong
R3621

 

[Corlove13]

In Conclusion

The Work Jesus Finished, we walk in
Walking in it is how we relate to the Father who is in the son. Therefore simply said we uphold the Law through the faith of Christ.