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Illuminator

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A non-responsive reply to my yes or no question; do you rejoice in their salvation or do you condemn them for not going through your team?
The heroics of St. Patrick are not appreciated as much as they should be. He is the first person in history to publicly condemn slavery, and one of the first leaders to champion the cause of equal rights.

There is much to celebrate on March 17. Fortunately, his writings, though slim, are eye-opening accounts of his life: Letter to the Soldiers of Coroticus and Confession reveal much about the man. Along with other sources, they paint a picture of his saintliness.

Patrick was born in Britain in the 4th century to wealthy parents. It is likely that he was baptized, though growing up he did not share his family’s faith. He was an atheist.

When he was 15, he committed what he said was a grave sin, never saying exactly what it was; it appears it was a sexual encounter with a young girl. No matter, it would haunt him throughout his life.

At age 15 or 16 (the accounts vary), Patrick was kidnapped and enslaved by Irish barbarians. They had come to plunder his family’s estate, and took him away in chains to Ireland. While a slave, he converted to Christianity, praying incessantly at all hours of the day. After six years, he escaped, and made his way back home.

His family thought he was dead, and with good reason: no one taken by Irish raiders had managed to escape and return. St. Patrick biographer Philip Freeman describes how his family received him, stating “it was as if a ghost had returned from the dead.”

After he returned home, he had a vision while sleeping. He felt called to return to Ireland. This seemed bizarre: this is where he was brutalized as a slave. But he knew what Jesus had commanded us to do, “Love thy enemy.” He was convinced that God was calling him to become a missionary to Ireland. So he acted on it, despite the reservations of family and friends.

Patrick became a priest, practiced celibacy, and was eventually named a bishop. Contrary to what many believe, he did not introduce Christianity to Ireland, nor was he Ireland’s first bishop. But he did more to bring the
Gospel to Ireland than anyone, converting legions of pagans, especially in the northern parts of the island.

His missionary work in Ireland has been duly noted, but his strong defense of human rights has not been given its due.

No public person before him had denounced slavery, widespread though it was. Jesus was silent on the subject, Aristotle thought it was a natural way of life, and neither master nor slave saw anything fundamentally wrong with it. Patrick did.

Though he did not invoke natural law specifically, he was instinctively drawn to it. He taught that all men were created equal in the eyes of God, and that the inherent dignity of everyone must be respected.

Patrick did more than preach—he lashed out at the British dictator, Coroticus, harshly rebuking him for his mistreatment of the Irish. In fact, Patrick found his Irish converts to be more civilized than Coroticus and his band of thugs.

Patrick was way ahead of his time in the pursuit of human rights. Not only were men of every social status entitled to equal rights, so were women. In his Letter to the Soldiers of Coroticus, he scolds “the tyrant Coroticus—a man who has no respect for God or his priests.” More important, he made a startling plea: “They must also free Christian women and captives.” His reasoning showed the power of his faith when he said, “Remember, Christ died and was crucified for these people.”

He did not mince words. “So, Coroticus, you and your wicked servants, where do you think you will end up? You have treated baptized Christian women like prizes to be handed out, all for the sake of the here and now—this brief, fleeting world.”

What makes this all the more dramatic is the way the pagan world thought about women: the idea that women were equal to men was totally foreign to them. But the women understood what Patrick was saying, and gravitated to him in large numbers. The Christian tenet that all humans possess equal dignity had taken root.

Did the Irish save civilization, as Thomas Cahill maintains? Freeman thinks not—”it had never been lost.” But everyone agrees that had it not been for St. Patrick, and the monasteries that followed, much of what we know about the ancient world would not exist.

Indeed, it is difficult to fathom how classical Greek and Roman literature would have survived had it not been for the Irish monks who attracted students from many parts of Europe. They are responsible for preserving the great works of antiquity. And all of them are indebted to St. Patrick.

It is believed that he died on March 17, sometime during the second half of the fifth century. That is his feast day, the source of many celebrations in his honor. His impact extends beyond the Irish and the Catholic Church—human rights are a global issue—making him a very special person in world history.
SALUTE TO ST. PATRICK – Catholic League

Wrangler, do you rejoice in St. Patrick's salvation or do you condemn him for not going through your team?
 

Illuminator

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@Wrangler
Saint Teresa of Calcutta: 15 reasons why we remember the Mother of the City of Joy- Edexlive

7. While teaching poor children in Calcutta, Mother Teresa did not have any supplies or equipment to impart knowledge, yet she managed to teach the children to read and write by writing in the dirt with wooden sticks. She opened a hospice for those with leprosy, calling it Shanti Nagar (City of Peace). The Missionaries of Charity established leprosy-outreach clinics throughout Calcutta, providing medication, dressings and food. The Missionaries of Charity took in an increasing number of homeless children; in 1955 Teresa opened Nirmala Shishu Bhavan, the Children's Home of the Immaculate Heart, as a haven for orphans and homeless youth.

Wrangler, do you rejoice in St. Teresa's salvation or do you condemn her for not going through your team?

Can a rotten tree bear good fruit?
 

Illuminator

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Wrong! Like so much, you got worship wrong. (God is not the only one who is worshipped as trinitarians allege.) The Bible even says so in 1 Kings 1:16. From Definition of WORSHIP
Definition of worship
(Entry 1 of 2)

transitive verb

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power
2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

Definition of worship (Entry 2 of 2)

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralso : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
3: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem worship of the dollar
4chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (such as magistrates and some mayors)


Bethsabee bowed herself, and worshipped the king. And the king said to her: What is thy will?
1 Kings 1:16 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
Do Protestants worship their pastor when they call him Reverend???
 

Illuminator

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Do Protestants worship their pastor when they call him Reverend???
Oh, I forgot! Wrangler has no pastor.


there-is-no-catholic-god.jpg
 

Ferris Bueller

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He was implying that thee verses were about "evangelization" and NOT the Ministry of Reconciliation.
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it's not about your definition of the ministry of reconciliation. Nobody needs a Catholic priest to be justified and receive God's forgiveness. God's servants carry the message. High Priest Jesus himself mediates reconciliation with the Father when we believe the message. The establishment of His ministry set aside the earthly, mortal priestly ministry of man. Hebrews explains all this, and how infinitely perfect and everlasting His ministry and Sacrifice is over and above man's. That's why we don't need man's priesthood to mediate forgiveness and reconciliation with God anymore.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
All believers have the keys to the kingdom....

18“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.” Matthew 18:18-19
 

Ferris Bueller

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I don’t have a team Christ founded the church for salvation not I
It's not necessary anymore to go through a team of mortal priests to connect with God. Through the new way of faith we have direct access to Christ's immortal and everlasting and perfect Ministry and Sacrifice. Other than educating people about it and leading them to it, no human priestly activity is required for a person to be justified and forgiven through Christ's Priesthood. If any authority is being usurped here it is by the Catholic priesthood. They are claiming a priestly authority that Christ himself laid aside and made unnecessary.
 

theefaith

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All believers have the keys to the kingdom....

18“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.” Matthew 18:18-19

you have no verse for that

matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

peter has the keys

notice I give unto thee (singular)
Whatsoever you bind (singular)
Whatsoever you loose (singular)

peter peter peter

only Peter wake up pea brain!
 

theefaith

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It's not necessary anymore to go through a team of mortal priests to connect with God. Through the new way of faith we have direct access to Christ's immortal and everlasting and perfect Ministry and Sacrifice. Other than educating people about it and leading them to it, no human priestly activity is required for a person to be justified and forgiven through Christ's Priesthood. If any authority is being usurped here it is by the Catholic priesthood. They are claiming a priestly authority that Christ himself laid aside and made unnecessary.

Please explain Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Forever!

rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain
 

BreadOfLife

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Wrong! The job of a prophet is to bring the Word of God to the people. The job of a priest is to bring people to God, usually through sacrificial and purification rituals.

Priests are NOT mediators between us and God. They may mediate between people but in no way to they take the place of Christ. Regarding bringing people to God, nobody does it better than our High Priest, the Son of God. I suppose you intended your post to be controversial or provocative. Congratulations.
WRONG.
The very definition of a priest is "mediator".

Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

priest
noun
\ ˈprēst \

Definition of priest
: one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion especially as a MEDIATORY agent between humans and God


Jesus is our ONE mediator in the sense that only HIS sacrifice can bring peace between us and the Father.
However, ALL of us as a royal priesthood (1 Pet. 2:9) share in this sacrifice.

The verse about Jesus being that ONE mediator in 1 Tim. 2:5 is preceded a few verses earlier with this request from Paul:

1 Tom 2:1
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, INCERCESSION and thanksgiving be made for ALL people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

This is the function of a PRIEST.
 

BreadOfLife

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Wrong! Like so much, you got worship wrong. (God is not the only one who is worshipped as trinitarians allege.) The Bible even says so in 1 Kings 1:16. From Definition of WORSHIP
Definition of worship
(Entry 1 of 2)

transitive verb

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power
2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

Definition of worship (Entry 2 of 2)

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralso : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
3: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem worship of the dollar
4chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (such as magistrates and some mayors)

Bethsabee bowed herself, and worshipped the king. And the king said to her: What is thy will?
1 Kings 1:16 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
Are you so ignorant that you don't understand thatwords have MORE than ONE meaning?
As I have shown repeatedly - "PRAY" has more than one meaning.

The definition of "Worship" above is correct - and in THIS sense, we are ALL guilty of "worshipping" other humans.
- Jacob bowed to the ground before his brother Esau.
- Bathsheba bowed to the ground before David.
- Solomon bowed to the ground before his mother Bathsheba.


Were they guilty of "Idol Worship" - or "worship" in the sense that they had great respect and honor??
THINK
about it and stop with the nonsense already . . .
 

justbyfaith

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Are you so ignorant that you don't understand thatwords have MORE than ONE meaning?
As I have shown repeatedly - "PRAY" has more than one meaning.

The definition of "Worship" above is correct - and in THIS sense, we are ALL guilty of "worshipping" other humans.
- Jacob bowed to the ground before his brother Esau.
- Bathsheba bowed to the ground before David.
- Solomon bowed to the ground before his mother Bathsheba.


Were they guilty of "Idol Worship" - or "worship" in the sense that they had great respect and honor??
THINK
about it and stop with the nonsense already . . .
Still up to your old tricks, I see.
 

BreadOfLife

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That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it's not about your definition of the ministry of reconciliation. Nobody needs a Catholic priest to be justified and receive God's forgiveness. God's servants carry the message. High Priest Jesus himself mediates reconciliation with the Father when we believe the message. The establishment of His ministry set aside the earthly, mortal priestly ministry of man. Hebrews explains all this, and how infinitely perfect and everlasting His ministry and Sacrifice is over and above man's. That's why we don't need man's priesthood to meditate forgiveness and reconciliation with God anymore.
WRONG.

You cannot reconcile 2 Cor. 5:18-20 and 2 Cor. 2:10, with this line of reasoning.
As I pointed out - Paul differentiates the clergy/laity distinction in these verses as it pertains to the Ministry of Recomciliation.

This directly correlates with John 20:21-23, where Jesus breathes on the Apostles, giving them the Authority to FORGIVE or RETAIN sins in His name. He told them:
"As the Father sent ME - so I send YOU" (John 20:21).

WHAT did the Father "send" the Son to do?
To bring about the FORGIVENESS of sins.
 

justbyfaith

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WRONG.

You cannot reconcile 2 Cor. 5:18-20 and 2 Cor. 2:10, with this line of reasoning.
As I pointed out - Paul differentiates the clergy/laity distinction in these verses as it pertains to the Ministry of Recomciliation.

This directly correlates with John 20:21-23, where Jesus breathes on the Apostles, giving them the Authority to FORGIVE or RETAIN sins in His name. He told them:
"As the Father sent ME - so I send YOU" (John 20:21).

WHAT did the Father "send" the Son to do?
To bring about the FORGIVENESS of sins.
More of your old tricks...
 

Wrangler

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WRONG.
The very definition of a priest is "mediator".


Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

priest
noun
\ ˈprēst \
Definition of priest
: one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion especially as a MEDIATORY agent between humans and God

I have to admit, you have me there. The Bible authorizes all of us to function in this capacity. The authority does not come from Rome.
 

Ronald Nolette

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the “Bible alone” is not enough now we need to know Hebrew and Greek
Not me pal!

too bad because the Bible was written in Greek and Hebrew! Every translation has some problems. some more than others when the translators are a specific denomination or have an agenda.

We as individua;ls are called to STUDY to show ourselves approved. While most English bibles are good, I prefer to be like a Berean and look at teh languages. English too often do not carry through with the verb tense so what is in English is different in some measure to the original.
 

theefaith

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too bad because the Bible was written in Greek and Hebrew! Every translation has some problems. some more than others when the translators are a specific denomination or have an agenda.

We as individua;ls are called to STUDY to show ourselves approved. While most English bibles are good, I prefer to be like a Berean and look at teh languages. English too often do not carry through with the verb tense so what is in English is different in some measure to the original.

what makes you think “study to show” applies to individual believers?
 

Ronald Nolette

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what makes you think “study to show” applies to individual believers?


Because of this:

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So unless you deign to not be a workman- then you need to study! Paul commended the individual Bereans, for He taught, then they checked to verify if what He taught was true! They just didn't take his word for it!

We all have a responsibility to verify the accuracy of any sects teaching against the Word of God. Accept it if ti aligns with the Word and reject it at all costs if it veers from teh clear teachings of Scripture!