No. (Did God Ever Intend an Eternity in the Garden?)

[Bartholomew Jones]

On comparing John's ordering to Ephesus against Jeremiah's comparison between Virgin Israel and degraded Israel; over and against lessons from Jesus regarding the parables, Wisdom shows, God's original intent was to send man, with a pioneering spirit into the wilderness.

Listen to the Holy Spirit as you ponder these passages, with careful attention to terms chosen:
Gen 3:14, "(to serpent) because you have done this, cursed..."; Gen 3:17, "because you have listened...for you sake..."; A toddler/child has to be taught to keep clothed more dignified: Gen 3:7, fig leaves, Gen 3:21, more perfectly clothed.

Jer 2:2-3, Virgin Israel, pioneer spirit, Rev 2:5, what was their "first love?" (what was Israel's)

For those too "stiff-necked" and those with understanding, consider Mark 4:13--"And he said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand ALL parables?" Be perfect (complete).

The curse was never against Adam and Eve. It was against the serpent, upon the earth, and over Cain. Study for approval to God, not to man.

 

[DPMartin]

On comparing John's ordering to Ephesus against Jeremiah's comparison between Virgin Israel and degraded Israel; over and against lessons from Jesus regarding the parables, Wisdom shows, God's original intent was to send man, with a pioneering spirit into the wilderness.

.

this is absolute horse dump,

the tree of Life was also in the mist which they did have God's approval to eat from, which according to God would let them live forever. and read it again God made the man then He put the man in the garden with certain conditions.

 

[Enoch111]

The curse was never against Adam and Eve.

Then you have failed to take note of what was said to both of them:

THE CURSE ON WOMANKIND: THREEFOLD
Unto the woman he said, [1] I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; [2] in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; [3] and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

THE CURSE ON MANKIND AND THE GROUND:FIVEFOLD
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: [1] cursed is the ground for thy sake; [2] in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; [3] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; [4] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: [5] for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The fact that the Tree of Life was in the Garden of Eden meant that eternal life was potentially there. The fact that Eden is now Paradise in Heaven means that eternal life will be within Paradise in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Then you have failed to take note of what was said to both of them:

THE CURSE ON WOMANKIND: THREEFOLD
Unto the woman he said, [1] I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; [2] in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; [3] and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

THE CURSE ON MANKIND AND THE GROUND:FIVEFOLD
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: [1] cursed is the ground for thy sake; [2] in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; [3] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; [4] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: [5] for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The fact that the Tree of Life was in the Garden of Eden meant that eternal life was potentially there. The fact that Eden is now Paradise in Heaven means that eternal life will be within Paradise in the New Jerusalem.

The term "curse" is precise. Scripture doesn't lead the reader to "interpret" if something is cursed. The reader shouldn't say that it says "he's cursed" unless the Scripture itself uses the term, "curse" to say, "he's cursed." In the passages of early Genesis the term is used precisely 1) against the serpent, 2) upon the earth/ground, 3) over Cain. If you prefer to add to the Bible, you've been warned as patiently as I'm equipped to do. If I'm taking away from what the Bible actually says then let God's full measure of judgment charge me.

 

[Enoch111]

Scripture doesn't lead the reader to "interpret" if something is cursed.

That is TOTAL NONSENSE. The Scriptures I quoted included the word "cursed". And other Scriptures back that up. So you have come on board to promote nonsense. G'bye.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

That is TOTAL NONSENSE. The Scriptures I quoted included the word "cursed". And other Scriptures back that up. So you have come on board to promote nonsense. G'bye.

Rewards my way. Thank you.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

this is absolute horse dump,

the tree of Life was also in the mist which they did have God's approval to eat from, which according to God would let them live forever. and read it again God made the man then He put the man in the garden with certain conditions.

The commandment was, "thou shalt not eat of" Did he then say, "for IF thou eatest?" No. He says, "for in the day that thou eatest..." It was his intention for the divine story. Christ was slain (beforehand) from the foundation of the world.

There's reason God himself exclaims, "Every jot and every tittle." But you're totally free to read as carelessly as you wish.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

That is TOTAL NONSENSE. The Scriptures I quoted included the word "cursed". And other Scriptures back that up. So you have come on board to promote nonsense. G'bye.

You're a very poor reader. That's not an insult. That's what you need to know.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The curse was never against Adam and Eve. It was against the serpent, upon the earth, and over Cain.

Genesis 2:16-17 NLT - "But the LORD God warned him, "You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden-- 17 except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die."

And death was issued to them both, for this is why the Trinity stated that if the two of them were to eat from the Tree of Life, the Curse would have been lifted and thus, they would have lived for ever in Eternity, having been Purified by the Tree of Life, which is Christ in every way, from the Fruit to the Leaves, to the Tree to the Root.

Genesis 3:22-24 NLT - "Then the LORD God said, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!" 23 So the LORD God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. 24 After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

If Adam and Eve did not suffer from the Law of Sin and Death, then pretty much all that I understand about the Bible is going to be wrong.

Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." - And that is exactly what eating from the Tree of Life would have done for Adam and Eve. But, God has an Almighty Plan, and this event of not allowing Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Life is our first major clue to this Plan. Humanity would have to wait for Jesus for the Redemption of their Sins . . . including Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were the first to suffer from this Evil law of the Sinful Nature. Which is why they began to experience Fear, Shame and Guilt. These are the three most powerful tools that Satan uses, for, once a person suffers from these Evil emotions, Satan can sit back and watch that persons life absolutely fall apart.

Genesis 3:7-8, 10-11 NKJV - "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked (SHAME); and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves (GUILT) from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. ... 10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid (FEAR) because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 And He said, "Who told you that you [were] naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?"

Eyes being opened in this way, this is the Curse of Adam and Eve . . . as I understand it to be.

That said, I'm glad you started this thread . . . I was going to begin it and invite you to help me in your understandings. What you're claiming is a really big deal, so I wanted to go over it with you.

I appreciate your views, so if you can give me clear help on this, I would really appreciate it!

Thanks, BJ!

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Genesis 2:16-17 NLT - "But the LORD God warned him, "You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden-- 17 except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die."

And death was issued to them both, for this is why the Trinity stated that if the two of them were to eat from the Tree of Life, the Curse would have been lifted and thus, they would have lived for ever in Eternity, having been Purified by the Tree of Life, which is Christ in every way, from the Fruit to the Leaves, to the Tree to the Root.

Genesis 3:22-24 NLT - "Then the LORD God said, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!" 23 So the LORD God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. 24 After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

If Adam and Eve did not suffer from the Law of Sin and Death, then pretty much all that I understand about the Bible is going to be wrong.

Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." - And that is exactly what eating from the Tree of Life would have done for Adam and Eve. But, God has an Almighty Plan, and this event of not allowing Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Life is our first major clue to this Plan. Humanity would have to wait for Jesus for the Redemption of their Sins . . . including Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were the first to suffer from this Evil law of the Sinful Nature. Which is why they began to experience Fear, Shame and Guilt. These are the three most powerful tools that Satan uses, for, once a person suffers from these Evil emotions, Satan can sit back and watch that persons life absolutely fall apart.

Genesis 3:7-8, 10-11 NKJV - "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked (SHAME); and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves (GUILT) from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. ... 10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid (FEAR) because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 And He said, "Who told you that you [were] naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?"

Eyes being opened in this way, this is the Curse of Adam and Eve . . . as I understand it to be.

That said, I'm glad you started this thread . . . I was going to begin it and invite you to help me in your understandings. What you're claiming is a really big deal, so I wanted to go over it with you.

I appreciate your views, so if you can give me clear help on this, I would really appreciate it!

Thanks, BJ!

Thank you so much for inviting me to help YOU! We came around the same time, I think, and you've helped me so much.

Okay, right at the start we have a dilemma common these days with so many translations of the Bible counted as standard translations...

Gen 2:17
Your version (NLT)-- except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die."

Your version does indeed say, "if" you eat...

Whereas the King James says, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof..."

When he gave the commandment not to do so, it was to be taken for granted that he would yet do so, if the King James is not in error.

This is a major problem. I used to indulge in the more modern translations because they are so much more comfortable for modern people to read from. But I have found that the nuances of King James, are vital for correct understanding. Just try this for two weeks. Read from the King James paying careful attention to phrases about the land; especially comparing the phrases, "in the land," vs "on the land," and the people groups associated; wers they Cain-like? Or were they more like Noah's people? There are patterns like this one you will quickly begin to recognize reaching from early Genesis all the way through to Revelation.

Okay, you mentioned the tree of life. For many years I was bewildered by the silence in the pulpit about *this* tree of life in the garden of Eden. They only ever discussed/preached about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It doesn't bother me now. Here's why. "The divine story."

When I'm out there in the field among folks who haven't savored the Holy Scriptures the most common type of question sounds like this--"why would God allow this terrible thing to happen this helpless person?" My best answer sounds like this--Because God is a triumphant God, and none can triumph without an awful enemy; he made man to triumph, like him, but to triumph over an awful enemy, the devil. The devil does those deeds. What I'm trying desperately to convey is that there's this divine story written in at least three magnificent places: in the heavens/stars; in the human history past an forward; and in the Scripture.

I do have a lot more to say but I don't have the convenience of a keyboard. I only have a phone. Therefore I'll be doing a lot more listening. I hope this helped a little. Please, I covet your invitations to help again. Especially questions I can answer directly. Thanks again. I hope we can keep regular in communicating like this.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Can't get to what you've written quite yet, but I'm licking my chops! haha

Putting together a video . . . so it might be tomorrow.

 

[Davy]

On comparing John's ordering to Ephesus against Jeremiah's comparison between Virgin Israel and degraded Israel; over and against lessons from Jesus regarding the parables, Wisdom shows, God's original intent was to send man, with a pioneering spirit into the wilderness.

Listen to the Holy Spirit as you ponder these passages, with careful attention to terms chosen:
Gen 3:14, "(to serpent) because you have done this, cursed..."; Gen 3:17, "because you have listened...for you sake..."; A toddler/child has to be taught to keep clothed more dignified: Gen 3:7, fig leaves, Gen 3:21, more perfectly clothed.

Jer 2:2-3, Virgin Israel, pioneer spirit, Rev 2:5, what was their "first love?" (what was Israel's)

For those too "stiff-necked" and those with understanding, consider Mark 4:13--"And he said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand ALL parables?" Be perfect (complete).

The curse was never against Adam and Eve. It was against the serpent, upon the earth, and over Cain. Study for approval to God, not to man.

Adam and Eve in God's Garden before they sinned was never intended to be God's eternal Salvation, because God's Salvation requires belief on the Promise by Faith of Jesus Christ involving His death and resurrection.

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
KJV

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Please, I covet your invitations to help again. Especially questions I can answer directly. Thanks again. I hope we can keep regular in communicating like this.

Bartholomew . . . we are going to discover great things. I need this and I can’t wait!


Ok, to start, I don’t quite follow what you’re getting at, but that’s actually good! Why? Because you’re not an idiot and I trust you, fully, that you believe what you believe and for very good reasons. One thing that is incredibly important to me is that I am challenged by people who are brilliant. I am desperate to talk to people who are intelligent (preferably more intelligent than myself), and have remarkable ideas about God’s Holy Word. So . . . thank you!


If I had to walk away with any Translation of the Bible, and use it to demonstrate what I believe the Bible Truly is getting at . . . I’d choose the KJV. In fact, my videos are full of the KJV, and actually, whenever I reference from that translation, I highlight the “K J V” in red, giving it honor and respect, and to draw attention to it. Not kidding. That said, I feel like all translations, for the most part, are saying the same things. Why? Because to botch the Mysterious Plan, the person doing the botching would have to know that the Plan was even there. However, by Nature, this Plan is Mysterious, which is why only an extreme few are able to see it. I haven't met one yet that sees what I clearly, I mean CLEARLY see, and I've been a "Christian" (the title only) for 41 years. (Once I realized that my Generational Theology was causing my Blindness, I began relying upon the Holy Spirit to teach me His Word . . . I just had no idea of what was about to happen, but depending upon the Spirit to teach me has completely changed my life! Total . . . Transformation.

Isaiah 54:13 KJV - "And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children."
Jeremiah 31:33-34 KJV - "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

(I'd like to think that I've been taught by the Lord, as He states He will do for His Children . . . above.)

As I read of these events of Adam and Eve in the Garden, I walk away with the same ideas that I have if I were to read from the 15 translations that I’ve got, even from the Tanakh . . . which I really Love! In fact, the Tanakh paraphrases Scriptures in a way that no Christian Bible does, and I agree with the Tanakh on many of those occasions (regarding the Mysterious Plan of God). Again, the Tanakh is a must read, IMHO.


And I hear you . . . it’s pretty amazing that no pastors teach about the Tree of Life. Then again, that’s what I would expect from a system that wants to live in disobedience, for to deny the Plan of God is to allow total discretion on what to teach and preach, and I’m not down with that any longer. That Tree of Life is what the Bible as a whole revolves around. Pretty incredible.


But I am hungry to understand what you mean when you say that Adam and Eve were never cursed. Or, maybe you didn’t actually say that, and I’m thinking that perhaps that is what you’re trying to say. What I [do] know, is that I don’t want to misunderstand ANYTHING that you’re saying. I don’t want to miss any of it. This is really important to me, and I believe that you’re here to be a solid “balance” in my writings. To be blunt, I need the opinions of you all, especially from those that are deep thinkers.


Lastly, do I need to send you a laptop?

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Adam and Eve in God's Garden before they sinned was never intended to be God's eternal Salvation, because God's Salvation requires belief on the Promise by Faith of Jesus Christ involving His death and resurrection.

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
KJV

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

Amen

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Bartholomew . . . we are going to discover great things. I need this and I can’t wait!


Ok, to start, I don’t quite follow what you’re getting at, but that’s actually good! Why? Because you’re not an idiot and I trust you, fully, that you believe what you believe and for very good reasons. One thing that is incredibly important to me is that I am challenged by people who are brilliant. I am desperate to talk to people who are intelligent (preferably more intelligent than myself), and have remarkable ideas about God’s Holy Word. So . . . thank you!


If I had to walk away with any Translation of the Bible, and use it to demonstrate what I believe the Bible Truly is getting at . . . I’d choose the KJV. In fact, my videos are full of the KJV, and actually, whenever I reference from that translation, I highlight the “K J V” in red, giving it honor and respect, and to draw attention to it. Not kidding. That said, I feel like all translations, for the most part, are saying the same things. Why? Because to botch the Mysterious Plan, the person doing the botching would have to know that the Plan was even there. However, by Nature, this Plan is Mysterious, which is why only an extreme few are able to see it. I haven't met one yet that sees what I clearly, I mean CLEARLY see, and I've been a "Christian" (the title only) for 41 years. (Once I realized that my Generational Theology was causing my Blindness, I began relying upon the Holy Spirit to teach me His Word . . . I just had no idea of what was about to happen, but depending upon the Spirit to teach me has completely changed my life! Total . . . Transformation.

Isaiah 54:13 KJV - "And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children."
Jeremiah 31:33-34 KJV - "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

(I'd like to think that I've been taught by the Lord, as He states He will do for His Children . . . above.)

As I read of these events of Adam and Eve in the Garden, I walk away with the same ideas that I have if I were to read from the 15 translations that I’ve got, even from the Tanakh . . . which I really Love! In fact, the Tanakh paraphrases Scriptures in a way that no Christian Bible does, and I agree with the Tanakh on many of those occasions (regarding the Mysterious Plan of God). Again, the Tanakh is a must read, IMHO.


And I hear you . . . it’s pretty amazing that no pastors teach about the Tree of Life. Then again, that’s what I would expect from a system that wants to live in disobedience, for to deny the Plan of God is to allow total discretion on what to teach and preach, and I’m not down with that any longer. That Tree of Life is what the Bible as a whole revolves around. Pretty incredible.


But I am hungry to understand what you mean when you say that Adam and Eve were never cursed. Or, maybe you didn’t actually say that, and I’m thinking that perhaps that is what you’re trying to say. What I [do] know, is that I don’t want to misunderstand ANYTHING that you’re saying. I don’t want to miss any of it. This is really important to me, and I believe that you’re here to be a solid “balance” in my writings. To be blunt, I need the opinions of you all, especially from those that are deep thinkers.


Lastly, do I need to send you a laptop?

Wow! A laptop? I don't know if the forums would approve of that but thank you.

Okay, let's look at this question of the curse.

The Bible is very careful to distinguish blessings vs curses. The two usually appear compared and/or contrasted. In Gen 3, when God calls only Adam to account, he then has to interrogate Eve. Finally, he takes their word as genuine and accuses the serpent," because YOU HAVE DONE THIS...CURSED are you (the serpent who is accused). Then he names the hurts the serpent would own.

Next he goes over some severe stipulations to Eve. Notice with her there's no "because;" or "since you did such and such."

Next, is something I find beautiful because I pride myself in being a hard honest worker. He doesn't curse Adam. He doesn't blame Adam. It does at first glance appear he blames Adam. But he's not, if you take due care.

First, he already laid all the blame, and all the the judgment on the serpent: BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE THIS CURSED ARE YOU.

Instead, he has gifts for Adam...

I believe Adam was an honest sinner. God gives Adam, since he listened to the voice of his wife Eve, a very hard burden of work. SEE! I love this! Every honest man works a long toilsome day of work and when he is done he EATS! He enjoys his wages.

That's why the King James doesn't say to Adam, "therefore," but God says to him, "cursed is THE GROUND...FOR YOUR SAKE"! Do you see?

In the first place the warning was primarily to Adam. The whole curse might have fallen on him immediately but it didn't. In fact none of it did. Life would be very rigorous for Adam and sorrowful for the woman. The third curse, following that against the serpent and following that upon the ground was curse over Cain. If you'll read carefully Gen 3 and 4 KJV you'll see what I mean.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Can't get to what you've written quite yet, but I'm licking my chops! haha

Putting together a video . . . so it might be tomorrow.

I caught one of those videos the other day. Nice work. is that an accessibility setup? I'll have to tell you some time about my prior work with United Cerebral Palsy and an ADA activist household.

 

[Sabertooth]

I see Man's separation from God (and subsequent creation of the Church) as being comparable to

"And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam;

and while he slept, He took one of his ribs or a part of his side
and closed up the [place with] flesh.​

And the rib or part of his side which the Lord God had taken from the man

He built up and made into a woman,
and He brought her to the man." Genesis 2:21-22 Amplified, Classic​

 

[ChristisGod]

Actually the OP is correct that there was no CURSE given to adam and eve, but a judgment for their sin fell upon them, a punishment for their sin would be the consequences of sin. The curse as stated fell upon the serpent and the ground. Now under the 2nd curse of the land adam would find toil in his labors.

So if we are being technical then the literal curse is upon the serpent and the land.

hope this helps !!!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Wow! A laptop? I don't know if the forums would approve of that but thank you.

Okay, let's look at this question of the curse.

The Bible is very careful to distinguish blessings vs curses. The two usually appear compared and/or contrasted. In Gen 3, when God calls only Adam to account, he then has to interrogate Eve. Finally, he takes their word as genuine and accuses the serpent," because YOU HAVE DONE THIS...CURSED are you (the serpent who is accused). Then he names the hurts the serpent would own.

Next he goes over some severe stipulations to Eve. Notice with her there's no "because;" or "since you did such and such."

Next, is something I find beautiful because I pride myself in being a hard honest worker. He doesn't curse Adam. He doesn't blame Adam. It does at first glance appear he blames Adam. But he's not, if you take due care.

First, he already laid all the blame, and all the the judgment on the serpent: BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE THIS CURSED ARE YOU.

Instead, he has gifts for Adam...

I believe Adam was an honest sinner. God gives Adam, since he listened to the voice of his wife Eve, a very hard burden of work. SEE! I love this! Every honest man works a long toilsome day of work and when he is done he EATS! He enjoys his wages.

That's why the King James doesn't say to Adam, "therefore," but God says to him, "cursed is THE GROUND...FOR YOUR SAKE"! Do you see?

In the first place the warning was primarily to Adam. The whole curse might have fallen on him immediately but it didn't. In fact none of it did. Life would be very rigorous for Adam and sorrowful for the woman. The third curse, following that against the serpent and following that upon the ground was curse over Cain. If you'll read carefully Gen 3 and 4 KJV you'll see what I mean.

Thank you for showing me this side of the equation. That said, the storyline that you're presenting doesn't fit with the narrative thread and purpose that I see throughout scripture. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that I can't see what it is that you're proposing.

The Curse, as I understand it, is the Curse of Fear, Shame, Guilt . . . a corrupted mind. The earth became corrupted . . . all things became corrupt, and in fact, all things must die. Adam and Eve died, therefore, they not only incited the Curse, but there were of first to experience death because of this Curse.

The Blessing? There really is only one Blessing. For if this Blessing is not given, no other blessing would matter. And what is that Blessing? The Blessing is the Promise, and that Promise is Jesus and His Subsequent Circumcision. And what is that Cirumcision? It is the defeat of the Curse of Adam and Eve. Again, if that Curse is not lifted, no other Blessing would matter, for Hell would await.

We know that Adam and Eve sustained the Law of Sin and Death, for Gen 3:22-23 states that they are indeed . . . going to die. Therefore, they, without a doubt, sustained the Curse. This is the entire point of Romans 5. It tells us that from Adam to Moses, death reigned. And death is that Curse (along with the Confusion and chaos that comes with it, as Paul perfectly describes in Romans 7, where he states "the things I want to do, I cannot . . . because of sin living in me (the Sinful Nature, or the Sinful Mind of the Devil).

Romans 5:12-14 KJV - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

I'll be honest . . . I will do my absolute best to understand what you are presenting. To do so, I must present Scripture so that you can understand where I am coming from, and in doing so, I'll need you to change even those understandings of Scripture. It isn't going to be easy . . . so maybe we need to, perhaps, address one point at a time?

I am the master of LOOOOONG posts with a million points . . . and that is hard to deal with. I am guilty! There is much to unravel for me to change my views, but I'm willing to do it if you're willing to keep trying.

So to start, I suppose I have to ask you to tell me what Paul is teaching in Romans 5. And hey, humans translated the Bible, so at some point, I'll expect you to show that there is perhaps an error in how we, humans, have transcribed the Lord's Heavenly Scrolls.

So what do you think of Romans 5?

Thank you, good sir!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I caught one of those videos the other day. Nice work. is that an accessibility setup? I'll have to tell you some time about my prior work with United Cerebral Palsy and an ADA activist household.

My ears are open! You sound like an amazing resource . . . I pray that as God continues to Transform both of us, that you would be reward for your involvement with the pain and suffering that comes in that line of work.

I just finished uploading our latest video. The others were essentially Biblical commentary, but this latest video deals with the Utter Core of the Bible, and it absolutely deals with Adam and Eve as the initial focal point. Therefore, if you are right, this means that I will be dreadfully wrong, and if I am dreadfully wrong, then all of these videos must be removed and forever deleted.

I need you to understand that it is impossible that I could be content with leading people astray. I can't do it! I'm not willing! So if you would, I need you to watch it and help me make sure that I am either wrong, or, correct.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am seeing the Truth, but I am most fortunate in that I love to listen to EVERYONE. Why? Because the Holy Truth is all that matters to me. The Truth is vastly more valuable that measly ol' me. In fact, if I don't tell the Truth, I would rather die, and I am most serious about that.

Thank you, BJ!!!!!