'No Immortal Soul'? (Challenge)

[Ghada]

Just curious. Thank you for your time.

No immortal soul? The quest to find out if souls go on or not.

Many people are spot on sure, souls do not go on.

If you can't find a verbatim scripture, it wouldn't make sense to post.

If you would like to post, you will not be condemned for sharing, or what you may believe.

Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

There is no debate in the Bible about the immortality of men's souls made by Christ in the image of God.

It's only the sinners not wanting to believe in the judgement of God for our works with everlasting torment of the dammed souls of man and angels, that want to think there is oblivion instead.

It's also the carnal thinking of natural man, that does not believe in soul and spirit at all, but only in flesh and blood in this life.

For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

 

[quietthinker]

Need to think Biblically not naturally.

The body is shaped from the dust. The soul is created by the Spirit in the image of God.

All bodies of natural born creatures are as grass and dust mortal. Only man on earth has a living soul created in the image of God.

Reading well you discover he IS a soul, not HAS a soul. This shifts everything!

 

[Ghada]

Reading well you discover he IS a soul, not HAS a soul. This shifts everything!

You do have a point of distinction, but without a difference. Man is the only living creature on earth with a soul created in the image of God.

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early:

Man is a soul created in God's image with a body of flesh, that is just shaped differently from all other natural creatures on earth.

The spirit of all living creatures depart their dead bodies and return to God.

The souls of men depart their dead bodies to be judged by God according to our works.

Oblivion is only for sinful men not wanting to be judged for their works, nor believe in everlasting shame apart from God.

I've learned that is the real reason why JW's preach a created christ of their own. The soul dies with the body and has nothing remaining other than decayed corpses, unless resurrected from the dead unto life.

 

[Wrangler]

No immortal soul? The quest to find out if souls go on or not.

A scientific approach would NOT give one side of the question default status of being correct if the other side has not been proven. In logic, this is called Appeal to Ignorance.

Fortunately, there is a logic approach dealing with the lack of evidence. It is called hypothesis testing. A key part of hypothesis testing is there must be evidence in support of the positive claim.

You have it backwards, wording the hypothesis in negative terms, I.e,. ‘no’ mortal soul. Properly constructed:

Ha. The soul is immortal.
H0. The soul is NOT immortal.

IF there is insufficient evidence to support Ha, the alternate hypothesis, logic dictates accepting the null hypothesis, H0.

Hope this helps.

 

[MatthewG]

I dont know about them scientists.

 

[MatthewG]

Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

There is no debate in the Bible about the immortality of men's souls made by Christ in the image of God.

It's only the sinners not wanting to believe in the judgement of God for our works with everlasting torment of the dammed souls of man and angels, that want to think there is oblivion instead.

It's also the carnal thinking of natural man, that does not believe in soul and spirit at all, but only in flesh and blood in this life.

For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Oh okay, G. I dont know what people tend to think about concerning their own soul. Got to love people and also yourself, and of course choose to love and put, God in ones life, in faith. Amen.

 

[quietthinker]

You do have a point of distinction, but without a difference. Man is the only living creature on earth with a soul created in the image of God.

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early:

Man is a soul created in God's image with a body of flesh, that is just shaped differently from all other natural creatures on earth.

The spirit of all living creatures depart their dead bodies and return to God.

The souls of men depart their dead bodies to be judged by God according to our works.

Oblivion is only for sinful men not wanting to be judged for their works, nor believe in everlasting shame apart from God.

I've learned that is the real reason why JW's preach a created christ of their own. The soul dies with the body and has nothing remaining other than decayed corpses, unless resurrected from the dead unto life.

Go and read the account of the creation of Man; it is clear Adam became a living soul, he did not receive a soul.

 

[Ghada]

A scientific approach

Is not Bible revelation.

IF there is insufficient evidence to support Ha, the alternate hypothesis, logic dictates accepting the null hypothesis, H0.

Which is what it's not Bible revelation, since the Bible say so. Neither ha nor ho.

Hope this helps.

Helps explain why science of man is not revelation of God.

 

[Ghada]

Oh okay, G. I dont know what people tend to think about concerning their own soul. Got to love people and also yourself, and of course choose to love and put, God in ones life, in faith. Amen.

What people tend to think has nothing to do with what God says.

That's why one's own faith alone is nothing to God.

No, I'm not into loving what people think as an expression of loving people.

 

[Ghada]

Go and read the account of the creation of Man; it is clear Adam became a living soul, he did not receive a soul.

Didn't say we did. Go back and read the account I gave.

Man is a living soul by the Spirit of God. Our body is just more flesh on earth shaped in a different way from others by God.

Me and my soul is not my body. Me and my soul puts of the tabernacle of my body when the time comes.

If you say you and your soul is your body, then you are just a natural man giving your body the name of 'soul'.

Nevertheless, our souls are judged for what we do with out bodies in this life. That is what cannot be done away with by 'doctrinal ideas'.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No immortal soul? The quest to find out if souls go on or not.

There is no quest... God made us in His Image... He lives forever and so does man.

For man, it's a question of where.... smoking (hell) or non-smoking (heaven)

That wraps up this thread!

 

[BeyondET]

The breath of life God gave is the energy which activates the formed dust. Its source is God. It is not a conscious entity any more than the electricity that brings a light globe to life when the power is turned on. When the electricity is turned off, the light goes nowhere, it just ceases to be.
In like manner, when the breath is withdrawn the soul goes nowhere, it just ceases to be and the dust goes back to where it came from.

Yet life in the body lives on for awhile creation is amazing.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yet life in the body lives on for awhile creation is amazing.

Actually.... Jesus Christ the Creator is amazing.

The Creator is always greater than the created

 

[BeyondET]

Actually.... Jesus Christ the Creator is amazing.

The Creator is always greater than the created

Indeed, that's why some organs can be transplanted those cells are still alive after the breath is gone and can save a life. Skin and bone cells can live for several days.

The soul is part of the mind.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Just curious. Thank you for your time.

No immortal soul? The quest to find out if souls go on or not.

Many people are spot on sure, souls do not go on.

If you can't find a verbatim scripture, it wouldn't make sense to post.

If you would like to post, you will not be condemned for sharing, or what you may believe.

Well, my opinion only is that if there is not an immortal soul that can go on then this also can be added to the growing list of biblical inconsistencies that one was taught and now seem to be a contradiction.

Mathew 10:28

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Hebrew term for soul is “nephesh” and it is found more than 780 times in the Old Testament. We read in Genesis 2:27 that man not only has a living soul; he is a living soul. It is the immaterial part of man midway between the body and the spirit, yet it is not a mixture of the two, though at times it seems to take on characteristics of one or the other.

The soul is self-consciousness; it stands for the individual, personal life. The ingredients which make us human beings belong to the soul. The intellect, thought, ideals, love, emotion, understanding, decision, choice and other like qualities are all associated with the soul. In other words, the soul is also the seat of all affections and Satan knows this very well that is why he operates making his appeal to the affections and emotions of man.

Of course many have muddied up the waters by not realizing the tripart of man

We are spirits, we live in a body, and we have a soul. Three distinct parts to us.

Biblically: ~ 1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That is a solid and definitive statement.

Ironically, it is the Holy Bible that seems to muddy things up with the seeming link of spirit and soul being one.

IT IS NOT.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 ~ then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

See this link for a long list that mentions souls and also spirits through out the bible

What Does the Bible Say About Soul Returns To God Who Gave It?

Bible verses about Soul Returns To God Who Gave It

www.openbible.info

I have an opinion...... you will read after the chart at the end of this.

Possibly one of the most insightful articles written of a comprehensive discussion and explanation on the
Spirit, Soul and Body is this link.

What happens to your spirit and soul at death? – See you in Heaven

What happens to your spirit and soul at death?​

I am sorry it is too long to copy to here, so I encourage you all to read what it says.... but in part from the link is this

SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY

The Bible clearly tells us that every human being is comprised of three parts: spirit, soul, and body. The apostle Paul is writing to Christians, and he says, “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (I Thessalonians 5:23). The spirit and soul are the immaterial or invisible part of human beings and the body, of course, is the physical part of us. God wants to “sanctify” or transform our spirit, soul, and body into the image of Christ (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18). But this transformation starts with our “spirit,” not our soul or body. Our spirit is the inner most part of us.

THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN SPIRIT AND SOUL

The Bible makes a distinction between the spirit and soul. “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit…” (Hebrew 4:12). What is the difference between our spirit and soul? Our spirit is the inner most part of our being. This is why the spirit is mentioned first in I Thessalonians 5:23. Our spirit connects with God Who is Spirit (John 4:23-24; cf. Romans 1:9; I Corinthians 6:17, 20; 14:14-15; Galatians 6:18; Ephesians 4:23; 2 Timothy 4:22; Philemon 1:25). God, who is Spirit, transforms our spirit. Our spirit is what animates our physical body. “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). When our spirit leaves our physical body, our body dies (cf. Matthew 27:50; Luke 23:45; John 19:30; Acts 7:59-60). Our soul also departs from our body at death (cf. Genesis 35:18; I Kings 17:21-22).

According to I Thessalonians 5:23, our spirit has been implanted in our soul, and our soul has been implanted in our physical body. The Greek word for “soul” in the New Testament is psychḗ which is where we get our English words “psyche” or “psychology.” It has to do with a person’s distinct identity or life. The soul is actually one’s self. Your soul is conscious of self. As God’s Spirit communicates with our spirit, our spirit then communicates what God’s Spirit said to our soul or self. Then our soul communicates this to our body. Then our body communicates this to our environment and the people who are aound us.



It is my opinion that before Jesus, during Old Testament days the actual human Spirit returned to God upon death... then I believe it was their human souls that went to either Hades or Abraham's Bosom (Paradise to await judgement)

After Jesus shed His blood for the sins of those who were/are believers... now both the Human spirit and the Human soul goes back to God .... and just a hunch for I have not read this.... that when Jesus took the OT and NT believers to heaven when he went up.... He also took "Paradise" up to heaven. (Before it was considered to be Upper Sheol) or part of Hades.

We know there will come a point when we all, as Romans 14:12 tells us "So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God."

Beyond this... I have no opinion

 

[quietthinker]

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The word 'destroy' in the above text confirms the soul is not immortal.

 

[MatthewG]

What people tend to think has nothing to do with what God says.

That's why one's own faith alone is nothing to God.

No, I'm not into loving what people think as an expression of loving people.

Idk what peoples hearts are, only God does.

 

[MatthewG]

Well, my opinion only is that if there is not an immortal soul that can go on then this also can be added to the growing list of biblical inconsistencies that one was taught and now seem to be a contradiction.

Mathew 10:28

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Hebrew term for soul is “nephesh” and it is found more than 780 times in the Old Testament. We read in Genesis 2:27 that man not only has a living soul; he is a living soul. It is the immaterial part of man midway between the body and the spirit, yet it is not a mixture of the two, though at times it seems to take on characteristics of one or the other.

The soul is self-consciousness; it stands for the individual, personal life. The ingredients which make us human beings belong to the soul. The intellect, thought, ideals, love, emotion, understanding, decision, choice and other like qualities are all associated with the soul. In other words, the soul is also the seat of all affections and Satan knows this very well that is why he operates making his appeal to the affections and emotions of man.

Of course many have muddied up the waters by not realizing the tripart of man

We are spirits, we live in a body, and we have a soul. Three distinct parts to us.

Biblically: ~ 1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That is a solid and definitive statement.

Ironically, it is the Holy Bible that seems to muddy things up with the seeming link of spirit and soul being one.

IT IS NOT.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 ~ then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

See this link for a long list that mentions souls and also spirits through out the bible

What Does the Bible Say About Soul Returns To God Who Gave It?

Bible verses about Soul Returns To God Who Gave It

www.openbible.info

I have an opinion...... you will read after the chart at the end of this.

Possibly one of the most insightful articles written of a comprehensive discussion and explanation on the
Spirit, Soul and Body is this link.

What happens to your spirit and soul at death? – See you in Heaven

What happens to your spirit and soul at death?​

I am sorry it is too long to copy to here, so I encourage you all to read what it says.... but in part from the link is this

SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY

The Bible clearly tells us that every human being is comprised of three parts: spirit, soul, and body. The apostle Paul is writing to Christians, and he says, “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (I Thessalonians 5:23). The spirit and soul are the immaterial or invisible part of human beings and the body, of course, is the physical part of us. God wants to “sanctify” or transform our spirit, soul, and body into the image of Christ (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18). But this transformation starts with our “spirit,” not our soul or body. Our spirit is the inner most part of us.

THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN SPIRIT AND SOUL

The Bible makes a distinction between the spirit and soul. “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit…” (Hebrew 4:12). What is the difference between our spirit and soul? Our spirit is the inner most part of our being. This is why the spirit is mentioned first in I Thessalonians 5:23. Our spirit connects with God Who is Spirit (John 4:23-24; cf. Romans 1:9; I Corinthians 6:17, 20; 14:14-15; Galatians 6:18; Ephesians 4:23; 2 Timothy 4:22; Philemon 1:25). God, who is Spirit, transforms our spirit. Our spirit is what animates our physical body. “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). When our spirit leaves our physical body, our body dies (cf. Matthew 27:50; Luke 23:45; John 19:30; Acts 7:59-60). Our soul also departs from our body at death (cf. Genesis 35:18; I Kings 17:21-22).

According to I Thessalonians 5:23, our spirit has been implanted in our soul, and our soul has been implanted in our physical body. The Greek word for “soul” in the New Testament is psychḗ which is where we get our English words “psyche” or “psychology.” It has to do with a person’s distinct identity or life. The soul is actually one’s self. Your soul is conscious of self. As God’s Spirit communicates with our spirit, our spirit then communicates what God’s Spirit said to our soul or self. Then our soul communicates this to our body. Then our body communicates this to our environment and the people who are aound us.


View attachment 37304
It is my opinion that before Jesus, during Old Testament days the actual human Spirit returned to God upon death... then I believe it was their human souls that went to either Hades or Abraham's Bosom (Paradise to await judgement)

After Jesus shed His blood for the sins of those who were/are believers... now both the Human spirit and the Human soul goes back to God .... and just a hunch for I have not read this.... that when Jesus took the OT and NT believers to heaven when he went up.... He also took "Paradise" up to heaven. (Before it was considered to be Upper Sheol) or part of Hades.

We know there will come a point when we all, as Romans 14:12 tells us "So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God."

Beyond this... I have no opinion

Thank you for sharing some of your insights.

 

[MatthewG]

There is no quest... God made us in His Image... He lives forever and so does man.

For man, it's a question of where.... smoking (hell) or non-smoking (heaven)

That wraps up this thread! View attachment 37302

Have you ever considering John the beloveds, version of peaks into heaven are like via, Revelation 21-22, though idk what heaven is like for a fact, there are some insights in those chapters finding people faithless outside the heavenly gates, and those of faith going to partake of the tree of life. It's interesting to read and look into, in my opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

The word 'destroy' in the above text confirms the soul is not immortal.

Could it also mean to ruin - a person who walks in darkness for a long time will come to some type of ruin, becoming destroyed within his mind/will/emotion before ever dying.