No-one has gone to heaven?

[VictoryinJesus]

The Bible quite clearly says all the dead go into their graves so what do you think and why do you think you go to heaven when you die?

That answer has nothing to do with my question.

no. So what exactly is the question?

 

[r1xlx]

Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

John 5:24-25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. [25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (And come alive).

You didn't read on to
verse 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The dead are all in their graves waiting raising when Jesus returns or at Resurrection and Judgment Day.

 

[Renniks]

GOD said Jesus is His son
Jesus said GOD is his father.
I think both GOD and Jesus know the correct state of affairs.
Trinity is Babylonian.

Jesus said He and the Father are one. Why were the Jews upset about his claim? Because to them, it was blasphemy. To merely say God was his father would not have upset them. Are you Mormon?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The honest answer is I don't know.
A speculative answer could be that because Jesus was God once he had been raised to life or even once he had died he would be with God the Father in heaven and the thief would also be with them. Alternatively if Jesus was not n heaven the their could be with God the Father, as Jesus is one with the Father , seeing Jesus you have seen the Father etc etc that would count as being with Jesus in heaven.

Well I don't agree with your speculative answer. I agree with the truth and your speculative answer basically is saying Jesus didn't really die because you see God can't die. Besides people can reason all they want, the truth is God can't die. I've always believed God sent his Only Begotten Son to us, not himself.

I think a lot of people interpret that Scripture at Luke 23:43 where some man chose to put a comma in that Scripture according to how he believed. Punctuation didn't exist when this Scripture was first written down, punctuation came much later.

Jesus is simply promising the man that when the resurrection of those who will be resurrected back on earth Jesus will resurrect the man and give him his chance for eternal life.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Paradise is not Heaven you know.
Bible points out that Adam and Eve were in Paradise, as to Gods order and then they got kicked out you know.
But old mate he had faith in that Jesus was the Christ, so his spirit was at home with God and not with that of Satan, the other dude was corrupted of Satan.

Jesus Christ is the King of Israel and such is the Kingdom of God, such is Paradise, it's hear on earth. that's what a true Christian strives for others to come into, because such a one loves his fellow Man and hopes for such a one to come and enter. that's what being born again is all about, you serve the Lord because he is your Saviour and you abide in the Vine and he will in you bear much fruit and that is true Israel ! that Nathaniel truly was.

I know paradise was the garden of Eden here on Earth, but many people regarding Luke 23:43 think that this man and Jesus were in heaven that very day of their death.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Judgment Day.

will have to study on that one then. Our communication breaks down then at: judgement begins at the house of God. And some men’s sins are open going on before to judgement, and some follow after. And His return.
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

“I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” ...is He Still in the grave?

 

[r1xlx]

You are a fool.
The Jews were upset because THEY ARE FALSE JEWS-CANAANITES-MUSLIMS!
That is why they deny Jesus, cause their women to cut their hair and wear wigs, circumcise, refuse pork and shell fish, pray to the sun in the east, discuss burning babies, denigrate the NT, burn meat on new altar, killed the disciples and others, lie about yearly Yom Kippur, etc etc.
If there is one Mormon on this forum like you there are thousands.
I'm definitely a Christian.

 

[r1xlx]

I know paradise was the garden of Eden here on Earth, but many people regarding Luke 23:43 think that this man and Jesus were in heaven that very day of their death.

Fasle thinking should be corrected or else it is a snare to those weak in understanding.

 

[r1xlx]

will have to study on that one then. Our communication breaks down then at: judgement begins at the house of God. And some men’s sins are open going on before to judgement, and some follow after. And His return.
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

“I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” ...is He Still in the grave?

Oh my goodness! Pray for wisdom and understanding.
When Jesus saidhe will come again he meant the second coming which we are all waiting for.
You obviously haven't read him saying he had to go because the ruler of Earth is coming?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

not sure the question “why do think you go to Heaven when you die”? The kingdom of God is within? As far as none have gone up which have not come down from above? He said except one be born again (from above) they can never see the kingdom of God. Born again from above, implies born (come down) from above, whatsoever is born of the God as every good gift coming down (given) of the Father.

who was Jesus talking to when he said, “The kingdom of God is within you”? It was to the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus applied God’s words by the prophet Isaiah: “Their heart is far from me.” (Matthew 15:1, 8, AV; Isaiah 29:13) How could the Kingdom enter into those hard hearts? What, then, is the meaning of Jesus’ words? There is a clue in editions of the King James Version that have marginal readings. There the alternative reading given is: “The kingdom of God is among you.” And this is the way that many other translations of the Bible, such as the Catholic Jerusalem Bible and The New English Bible, also read.

So, then, Jesus was here speaking of himself, the King-designate, as being among them. He was actually there in their midst, as a real person. And this should bring home to us, too, that the Kingdom is a real kingdom, an actual government, even as its King is an actual person.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Fasle thinking should be corrected or else it is a snare to those weak in understanding.

As I said, I know paradise was located here on Earth and Luke 23: 43 wasn't saying that Jesus and this criminal would be in paradise that very day of their deaths. However many people think that this Scripture is saying Jesus and this criminal was in heaven that very day of their deaths. You and I or anyone else who thinks this to be false thinking, these people who believe this way, will believe that we are the ones with the false thinking.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Jesus said He and the Father are one. Why were the Jews upset about his claim? Because to them, it was blasphemy. To merely say God was his father would not have upset them. Are you Mormon?

The Jews, who believed in the one God whose name is Jehovah, there wanted to stone Jesus. Why? Not because he taught such a thing as a Trinity and that he was one-third of it, but because he spoke of himself as the Son of God, the Son of their God Jehovah. Jesus said to them with their stones in their hands: “Many good works, from my Father, I have shown you; for which of them do you stone me?” The Jews replied: “It is for no good work that we stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, a man, make yourself god.” Jesus then referred the Jews to their own Holy Scriptures, to Psalm 82:6, and said: “Is it not written in your law, I have said, Ye are gods? If God said, that those to whom he was speaking were gods (and the scripture cannot be annulled), do you accuse of blasphemy him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me; but if I do them, even if you believe not me, believe the works, that you may perceive and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Nope. You are wrong. The dead will be raised as unsinnable but will live with a brand new body that gets ever younger every day on the good foods, pure waters and clean air of Paradise Earth ruled by Jesus and that 144,000.
Read your Bible.

I disagree with the idea that those resurrected on paradise Earth will be resurrected with unsinnable bodies. Those who are resurrected on paradise Earth will still have free will. Those resurrected on paradise Earth will have new bodies yes and will continue to get younger and younger but I think that will have to do more with spiritual food rather than physical food.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Oh my goodness! Pray for wisdom and understanding.
When Jesus saidhe will come again he meant the second coming which we are all waiting for.
You obviously haven't read him saying he had to go because the ruler of Earth is coming?

the title of your thread is no one has gone to heaven? Has any been born from above of God, is my question? If then born from above: none can ascended up to heaven, except he that came down from heaven
^ which seems to line up with John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

My mistake was not realizing there was an agenda and responded to your title, in its context: John 3:12-13 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

If you can’t believe when told earthly things, by what power “shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?” The carnal man cannot receive the things of God for they are foolishness to him, for they are spiritually discerned. ...then He goes on to say no man has gone to heaven except he who came down from heaven: EVEN the Son of man which is in heaven. “he that came down from heaven” is to be born from above of the Spirit. how-else or by what power will you believe Spiritual things? do with it whatever you like. Still taking it to prove all remain in the grave neglects those called out of graves...

 

[Enoch111]

I disagree with the idea that those resurrected on paradise Earth will be resurrected with unsinnable bodies.

Paradise is no longer on earth, and will not return to earth. It is in Heaven -- the "third heaven", where the New Jerusalem is located.

I knew a man in Christ [himself] above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth). How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (2 Cor 12:2-4)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

who was Jesus talking to when he said, “The kingdom of God is within you”? It was to the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus applied God’s words by the prophet Isaiah: “Their heart is far from me.” (Matthew 15:1, 8, AV; Isaiah 29:13) How could the Kingdom enter into those hard hearts? What, then, is the meaning of Jesus’ words? There is a clue in editions of the King James Version that have marginal readings. There the alternative reading given is: “The kingdom of God is among you.” And this is the way that many other translations of the Bible, such as the Catholic Jerusalem Bible and The New English Bible, also read.

So, then, Jesus was here speaking of himself, the King-designate, as being among them. He was actually there in their midst, as a real person. And this should bring home to us, too, that the Kingdom is a real kingdom, an actual government, even as its King is an actual person.

not completely agreeing and casting out “the kingdom of God is within you” as He said it is the inward hidden man of the heart, the pearl of great price, and to let the prince of peace rule your heart. BUT do see your point of “in their midst” and do not disagree with “So, then, Jesus was here speaking of himself, the King-designate, as being among them. He was actually there in their midst, as a real person. And this should bring home to us, too, that the Kingdom is a real kingdom, an actual government, even as its King is an actual person” although His Spirit is in the midst of His body prepared of the Father. As He said when two or more are gathered in His name...there He is in the midst of them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

confused, Why then the distaste of “the kingdom of God is within”? How does it not fit with “I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you” and even further: John 14:21-23 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. [22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? [23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[marks]

How are "the dead in Christ" going to rise if they are already there in Heaven?

Hi Willie,

1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

My thinking is this . . .

Being a new creature, this is not just a wispy nothingness, but has spiritual, heavenly, substance. When we die, we leave this body, but still have our substance in the heavenly, which is what I think Paul is talking about when he writes of our being present in the body but absent from the Lord, preferring rather to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

I ask myself in what way are we absent from the Lord? He will Never leave us or forsake us.

But we don't see Him. Our walk is by faith, and not by sight.

But when we close our senses here, I believe we will be seeing there, present with the Lord.

At the resurrection, we will again be joined to material bodies, but then redeemed, perfect, immortal.

We are new spirit children of God now, with heavenly existance now, to live accordingly, even while we wait for those redeemed bodies.

Much love!

 

[Hisman]

You are a fool.
The Jews were upset because THEY ARE FALSE JEWS-CANAANITES-MUSLIMS!
That is why they deny Jesus, cause their women to cut their hair and wear wigs, circumcise, refuse pork and shell fish, pray to the sun in the east, discuss burning babies, denigrate the NT, burn meat on new altar, killed the disciples and others, lie about yearly Yom Kippur, etc etc.
If there is one Mormon on this forum like you there are thousands.
I'm definitely a Christian.

So says your mouth!

But your posts and the way you call people Fools and sneer , is firstly very unladylike, and secondly , shows that you really have no idea what a true Christian is. I could not in any way call you a sister in Christ .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How are "the dead in Christ" going to rise if they are already there in Heaven?

crucified with Christ, yet we live. Dead with Him, yet alive unto God. Consider, The Revelation of Christ begins with “come up hither” how is that possible if there is none gone up hither as John was instructed to, ”And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.” Revelation 4:2

Consider also the wisdom which descends not of men but comes down(born) from God. In He said His ways are higher and His thoughts are Higher than our own. only trying to relate what I’m trying to say for the sake of conversation and that is all. Not asking you to agree. God spoke of all having gone out of the way (including me), all, becoming unprofitable and full of cursing and poison having not known the way of peace. But Christ spoke of the way saying “I am the way”. This wisdom born from above of His ways and His thoughts reaching down to the very depths of hell and “come up hither” the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to His servants. Are any to be born of His ways or His thoughts which are higher ...is this not the promise of walking in the Spirit which leads to Life. are we doomed to always wander in our own ways and our own thoughts which lead to death.

God said the way of peace they have not known...has the way been revealed? John said “I must decrease (come to nothing), that He may increase and (rise) growing upward. Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.