No other President of the USA has gotten such acclaim by so many

[Marymog]

I've already explained it to you.

Stranger

I agree. You have. And that is why I am praying for you.

Mary

 

[Stranger]

Thank you Stranger.

I pray to God that we never go back to the enslavement of our fellow human beings like you want to do. I suspect if you were ever enslaved you would be knelling with me in prayer.

According to your theory our country was more Christian when our government and citizens allowed/practiced slavery, Jim Crow laws, children to work in unsafe factories, industrial waste to be poured into our rivers, women not allowed to vote, anti-Catholicism in our Country etc. etc.

I don't like your version of a Christian Country. I like my version better....None of those. God has laws in place to judge the immoral people after the tipping point of the 60's and 70's that you have mentioned. Our Country (men) had laws that allowed the immoral actions of men without judgment. Those laws are gone..... thank God!! You want to go back to a time when those laws of men were enforced....I can't figure out why and it makes me sad for you.

Mary

I doubt it.

Yes, the country was Christian then irregardless of those things you mentioned.

I know you don't like it. But whether you like it or not, the country was Christian back then. Now it isn't. Your friend Thomas Paine would love your version also. Birds of a feather...you know.

Don't waste any tears on me Mary. I don't really believe it when people say 'it makes me sad' I think really they are mad, but 'sad' sounds so much better. Like you're such a good and concerned individual.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

Nope....No difficulty with "Reading Comprehension".
He made it clear he wanted to go back before the 60's 70's. That covers 200 years of our history which went from slavery to NO slavery. Women not allowed to vote to women ALLOWED to vote, No Jim Crow laws to having Jim Crow laws They were not all in effect at the same time which means we had an immense variance in our Countries laws/practices.
Sooooo it has nothing to do with "Reading Comprehension". It is a matter of articulating what turning from God means to him. When did we turn from God? When we allowed slavery or abolished it? When we passed laws protecting children and the earth God gave us OR before those laws were passed?
To me, and I hope to you, it seems that allowing slavery BY LAW is turning from God. Jim Crow laws are not OF GOD. We turned to God when we enacted laws that STOPPED children from working in factories and those factory owners from dumping waste into the water.
Sooooooo PLEASE don't pretend that he was clear about the time frame America turned from God because he wasn't. One could argue both before and after the 60's and 70's we "turned from God".
If you would have read what I wrote AND his lack of answers to direct questions and if you knew anything about our Countries history you would not have had such a difficult time understanding or comprehending what I was saying or trying to illicit from him.
As usual you dodged my question: Would you like to go back to those times?

Or is this one of those times I am supposed to PM you....the rules are so confusing.
Mary

(Open the BOLDED part of your quote above.)
I have to say, you are consistent in your blindness. I, ALSO, clearly typed out the time period I recall as being the best in this country.

 

[Stranger]

I agree. You have. And that is why I am praying for you.

Mary

Are you? Are you praying to the God that bought me as a slave?

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

"Knelling"????? He would be ringing a bell with you? LOL (Stranger, did you actually say she was a teacher? LOL

 

[Marymog]

"Knelling"????? He would be ringing a bell with you? LOL (Stranger, did you actually say she was a teacher? LOL

Hi Willie,

Glad to know you have never every mistyped a word. I wish I was perfect like you

Publically belittling people like you do is one way I hope I am never like you....it doesn't seem very Christian like.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I am surprised at you, Mary, being all warped out of shape that people in early America interpreted the Bible as fully accepting of slavery. The Bible is chock-full of references to slavery and instructions as to how they were to treat their slaves. It was a common, everyday way of life in Biblical days. Perhaps you tend to read the Bible through mainly 21st century eyes? Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all those Early Church Fathers we revere so much all owned slaves as a normal practice of their lives.

Hi Willie,

Don't be surprised that I am "all warped out of shape that people in early America interpreted the Bible as fully accepting of slavery." What you are NOT acknowledging is that along with this chattel slavery came the raping and physical abuse of those slaves. Did the bible say that is how "they were to treat their slaves"? I think that Galatians 3:27-28 and Colossians 3:11 should have been the focus of Scripture for those early Americans. I am warped out of shape because they didn't "interpret" those passages as anti-Slavery passages. Aren't you?

That my friend is what I am warped out of shape about. Aren't you? Sooooo stop pretending that the early Americans treated their slaves according to Scripture and that there is no reason to get "warped out of shape"!!!

I am "all warped out of shape" that those early American Christians did not read and adhere to other parts of NT Scripture that demanded us to adhere to the Christian principles of love your neighbor as yourself and the Golden Rule of Do unto others as you would have them to do unto you. Would you agree that those passages are ultimately incompatible with chattel slavery?

I am all warped out of shape because in a previous conversation Stranger would not even say that he would free slaves that are trafficked in sex. I flat out asked him: Are you willing to free these slaves?? (The Exodus Road - Human Trafficking - Your invitation to take action) and he refused to affirm that he would. I hope you are warped out of shape that he couldn't affirm that he would free those slaves. Be careful whom you defend.....

Lessons for historical Mary

Which ECF's owned slaves?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Are you? Are you praying to the God that bought me as a slave?

Stranger

Twist it all you want.....You know the gist of this conversation.

 

[Willie T]

Are you serious in not knowing the ECF's owned slaves?

 

[Marymog]

Are you serious in not knowing the ECF's owned slaves?

I clearly asked: Which ECF's owned slaves?

Does that not sound like a serious question?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

(Open the BOLDED part of your quote above.)
I have to say, you are consistent in your blindness. I, ALSO, clearly typed out the time period I recall as being the best in this country.

Thank you Willie.

I went back and looked. I suspect you are talking about post #218? Since you didn't "reply" to my post I missed it. I am not sure why you just don't hit the "reply" button when replying to someone's question/post. It sure would be helpful to keep the conversation flowing and tidy.

You said that you "found the mid 50's to 60 to be the most "Christian"-leaning times I was alive to remember". I never asked what times you were alive and remember as being the best or what period you recall as the best in this country. I asked "Would you like to go back to those times?" and I was clearly referring to slavery, women can't vote, kids in factories along with the racist Jim Crow laws). You then related to the OT laws being compatible with Jim Crow laws. Soooo you didn't really answer but I THINK you liked the 50's and 60's the most which was the Jim Crow era, your fellow Christian Americans couldn't drink from the same water fountain as you, they had to sit at the back of the bus, no equal rights etc. I must admit, it is difficult to pick a time when America was truly a Christian Country with no caveats.

So I ask you: Are we living under the OT or NT laws? I don't think NT laws allow Jim Crow type laws, sitting at the back of the bus etc.

I agree with your statement "But, bear in mind that those people who will be living two hundred years from now will probably look back at things we, today, swear by and defend as "righteous" and also declare us as Barbarians lost in ignorance." They will look back at us and be confused as to why we ever legalized the killing of babies in the womb.

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Thank you Willie.

I went back and looked. I suspect you are talking about post #218? Since you didn't "reply" to my post I missed it. I am not sure why you just don't hit the "reply" button when replying to someone's question/post. It sure would be helpful to keep the conversation flowing and tidy.

You said that you "found the mid 50's to 60 to be the most "Christian"-leaning times I was alive to remember". I never asked what times you were alive and remember as being the best or what period you recall as the best in this country. I asked "Would you like to go back to those times?" and I was clearly referring to slavery, women can't vote, kids in factories along with the racist Jim Crow laws). You then related to the OT laws being compatible with Jim Crow laws. Soooo you didn't really answer but I THINK you liked the 50's and 60's the most which was the Jim Crow era, your fellow Christian Americans couldn't drink from the same water fountain as you, they had to sit at the back of the bus, no equal rights etc. I must admit, it is difficult to pick a time when America was truly a Christian Country with no caveats.

So I ask you: Are we living under the OT or NT laws? I don't think NT laws allow Jim Crow type laws, sitting at the back of the bus etc.

I agree with your statement "But, bear in mind that those people who will be living two hundred years from now will probably look back at things we, today, swear by and defend as "righteous" and also declare us as Barbarians lost in ignorance." They will look back at us and be confused as to why we ever legalized the killing of babies in the womb.

Mary

You are finally beginning to open your eyes. At no time in history (starting with Adam & Eve) have humans ever fully followed God. And it changes nothing for you to keep trying to say some were worse (or better) than others. Each generation were simply who they were at that time.

The Ancients thought they followed God... The Founding Fathers of America thought they followed God... and you think you follow God. Most people just live their lives, and find the main fault to be with others.

 

[Willie T]

I clearly asked: Which ECF's owned slaves?

Does that not sound like a serious question?

Mary

"No", it doesn't. It sounds about as serious as being surprised they all also owned sheep.

 

[Marymog]

You are finally beginning to open your eyes. At no time in history (starting with Adam & Eve) have humans ever fully followed God. And it changes nothing for you to keep trying to say some were worse (or better) than others. Each generation were simply who they were at that time.

The Ancients thought they followed God... The Founding Fathers of America thought they followed God... and you think you follow God. Most people just live their lives, and find the main fault to be with others.

Ummmmm........No, my eyes have been open all along sooooooo I am not sure what you mean by that.

I have been trying to make it clear this entire time FROM THE BEGINNING OF THIS COUNTRY we have not "followed God". I simply asked which time would you like to go back to. I made my choice. I just wanted to know yours.

Enslavement, abuse and rape of men/women/children (the first 150 years of this country) WAS worse than the Jim Crow laws which encased approximately 60 years of this country. Soooooo some years were worse OR better than others....None of the times were completely following God.

I don't think I follow God....I do follow God. I find fault with others when they want to go back to a time of slavery, Jim Crow laws, pollution etc. There is nothing finding fault with others.....as long as we change that fault and we become a better country.

Do you think we are a better country than we were 50 years ago? I am not talking about the individual persons living in this country I am talking about how the laws have changed for the better of mankind.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

"No", it doesn't. It sounds about as serious as being surprised they all also owned sheep.

Hmmmmmm.......and still no evidence to back up your own question of me. You want me to answer something I don't know (and have tried to find) but you refuse to answer something you allegedly do know.

I was hoping you could teach me something that I am not aware of. You have not done that yet....I sincerely hope you will at least try.

Patient Mary

 

[Willie T]

Hmmmmmm.......and still no evidence to back up your own question of me. You want me to answer something I don't know (and have tried to find) but you refuse to answer something you allegedly do know.

I was hoping you could teach me something that I am not aware of. You have not done that yet....I sincerely hope you will at least try.

Patient Mary

I certainly could, but it will mean much more to you if you spend the time learning the Bible for yourself. Especially something so elementary as this issue.

Here is a little Wikipedia chatter that may start you looking in the right direction.
The Bible and slavery - Wikipedia

 

[Marymog]

I certainly could, but it will mean much more to you if you spend the time learning the Bible for yourself. Especially something so elementary as this issue.

Here is a little Wikipedia chatter that may start you looking in the right direction.
The Bible and slavery - Wikipedia

Willie, your slowly killing me with laughter.

You "certainly could" but you certainly didn't.....

Can you point out WHICH ECF is spoken of in that link you provided that had slaves? I must have missed it because I didn't see any.

Here is a little help on WHO (in general) are considered ECF's: Apostolic Fathers Clement and Polycarp. The Ante-Nicene Fathers: Irenaeus and Justin Martyr. The Post Nicene Fathers are Augustine, John Chrysostom, Jerome, and Eusebius.

Patient Mary

 

[4Jesus]

Donald Trump, "nationalist" and "Christian", President of the USA, helping homosexuals globally:
Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

 

[Marymog]

Donald Trump, "nationalist" and "Christian", President of the USA, helping homosexuals globally:
Trump administration launches global effort to end criminalization of homosexuality

The act of homosexuality is a sin. The act of infidelity is a sin. Should we make the sin of infidelity a crime along with the sin of the homosexual act?

Curious Mary

 

[4Jesus]

The act of homosexuality is a sin. The act of infidelity is a sin. Should we make the sin of infidelity a crime along with the sin of the homosexual act?

Curious Mary

How about, leave the world of satan alone and do nothing, and definitely don't help/protect it.