Not faith alone?

[Michiah-Imla]

you CAN “ Sin and get away with it “ as far as your Salvation is concerned —- Salvation was a “ GIFT”, remember?

The scripture plainly says:

“no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them”.

I am sorry, friend. But some of your post seems like the vain words spoken of in the passage above.

the only difference is that the one who succumbs to Temptation will be Chastised and the other will not...

The one who gets chastened is the one who sins in ignorance or in any fashion the all-knowing God determines to be chasten worthy. However, the one who knowingly succumbs to temptation has willfully sinned and will suffer the same fate as the infidels (Hebrews 10:26).

Obedience spurred by Love- NOT Fear.

Love enables one to fulfill the law, true. But fear also is a component:

2 Corinthians 7:1
“let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God”.

 

[kcnalp]

Did you forget that you are the one who got offended? I do not get offended when people call me an unbeliever.

Keep the Law. I'll take the NT. Good luck on Judgment Day.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Keep the Law. I'll take the NT. Good luck on Judgment Day.

If you are an obedient believer walking by the Spirit in obedience to God you are upholding the law too. That seems to be the point you're not getting. I suspect, though, and I could be wrong, that you are the victim of the corrupt church and are not in the habit of walking in the Spirit, thinking you are safe in your dead faith. If that's true (and I'm not saying I know) I'm not condemning you, I just know what the church is like these days. My hope is that the church's eyes would be opened to the necessity of having a living faith in order to enter into the kingdom of God when Jesus returns. Even Paul, whose message the church has corrupted, said the faith that justifies is the faith that loves (and thus upholds the law), not the faith that is dead and does no works of righteousness. In this matter of justification he says this.........

Galatians 5:6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

See, even Paul didn't believe that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that does nothing. The faith that justifies is the faith that works. The faith that does not express itself in love is not the faith that justifies apart from works. The faith that we are to rely on to save us is the faith that can be seen in what it does, like when Abraham's faith in God's promise about the son was seen in what he did. But most Christians believe what the church has taught them, that dead faith is the faith that justifies, or else you're trying to earn your own salvation. Don't arrive at the judgement with dead faith. You'll go to the left and into the fire if that's all you have to show for the knowledge of the gospel you received in this life. Jesus warned us ahead of time. These are not words of condemnation. They are words of warning so that the person who hears them can receive the faith that works and be saved and not condemned at his coming.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them”.

I am sorry, friend. But some of your post seems like the vain words spoken of in the passage above.

I was thinking of this exact passage while I was reading his post.

 

[kcnalp]

If you are an obedient believer walking by the Spirit in obedience to God you are upholding the law too. That seems to be the point you're not getting. I suspect, though, and I could be wrong, that you are the victim of the corrupt church and are not in the habit of walking in the Spirit, thinking you are safe in your dead faith. If that's true (and I'm not saying I know) I'm not condemning you, I just know what the church is like these days. My hope is that the church's eyes would be opened to the necessity of having a living faith in order to enter into the kingdom of God when Jesus returns. Even Paul, whose message the church has corrupted, said the faith that justifies is the faith that loves (and thus upholds the law), not the faith that is dead and does no works of righteousness. In this matter of justification he says this.........

Galatians 5:6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

See, even Paul didn't believe that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that does nothing. The faith that justifies is the faith that works. The faith that does not express itself in love is not the faith that justifies apart from works. The faith that we are to rely on to save us is the faith that can be seen in what it does, like when Abraham's faith in God's promise about the son was seen in what he did. But most Christians believe what the church has taught them, that dead faith is the faith that justifies, or else you're trying to earn your own salvation. Don't arrive at the judgement with dead faith. You'll go to the left and into the fire if that's all you have to show for the knowledge of the gospel you received in this life. Jesus warned us ahead of time. These are not words of condemnation. They are words of warning so that the person who hears them can receive the faith that works and be saved and not condemned at his coming.

If you preach the Law you're a "debtor" to keep the Law, all of it! You do not.
Galatians 5:3-4 (NKJV)
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I'll stick with the New Covenant in Jesus' Blood!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The one who gets chastened is the one who sins in ignorance or in any fashion the all-knowing God determines to be chasten worthy. However, the one who knowingly succumbs to temptation has willfully sinned and will suffer the same fate as the infidels (Hebrews 10:26).

I think this is the disconnect between him and us. His theology fails to distinguish between honest weakness and failure and willful sinning. They have two very different outcomes. God is merciful to the struggling saint, but he turns his face against the one who willfully chooses to live in sin and does not appreciate the payment he has provided for sin, trampling it underfoot. I hope this turns some people to repentance right now and to the mercy of God who are living in purposeful sin thinking God's grace covers it because they 'believe'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you preach the Law you're a "debtor" to keep the Law, all of it! You do not.

No, you're only a debtor to keep all the law, flawlessly, if you are trying to be made righteous by the law. I'm not trying to do that. So I don't have to keep the law in order to be righteous. I am already righteous through the forgiveness of my unrighteousness and the imputation of God's righteousness. Every honest person knows you can't make yourself righteous through keeping the law—because you can't keep it (only righteous people can keep the law). That's what makes that way to be justified futile and worthless. That hardly means you don't uphold the law as a Christian. It only means you can't be made righteous by keeping the law. Christians don't uphold the law to be made righteous. They uphold the law BECAUSE they are righteous by virtue of the Holy Spirit that indwells them. You don't seem to recognize the difference between upholding the law because you are a new creation by the Holy Spirit created to be able do those good works, and 'trying' to keep the law in order to be a new creation. See the difference?

 

[justbyfaith]

Did you even read Rom 6:14
Romans 6:14 (NKJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

If you are under the Law of Moses you MUST obey all of the Law. And you CAN'T!
Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I have not said that Christians are under the law; I have said that unbelieving Gentiles are under the law.

I never said nor implied any such thing!

Teaching that Gentiles are not under the law because they are Gentiles implies that they will not be judged by God; for the law is the venue by which all men will be judged.

( pssssttttt......you forgot to mention that the Cross and the Shed Blood are both Worthless in regard to your Salvation if you don't Repent Of all of your sins before you die,Right? In the end , your Salvation came down to “ Lucky Repentance”
To the uninitiated, allow me to explain how “ Lucky Repentance” for Salvation works:Two equal men......men Of Faith.....Born Again Believers for many years.....never miss church...tithe every dime ....take care of the sick and needy......serve food at the Soup Line every chance that they get.....you get the picture, right? Well , as fate would have it the found themselves repairing a damaged floor, beneath a heavy-duty table. Both guys accidentally hit their thumbs with the hammers they were using and let out a Curse Word That would make the late George Carlin blush! Well, one of the guys had a sudden heart attack and died , not having the Presence Of Mind to Repent Of His final Sin Before he kicked the bucket and of course , he was damned to Hell because he did not repent of a Sin. The other Guy? He also had a heart attack but had the presence of mind— the LUCK—-to say a real quick prayer before he gave up the Ghost......naturally, he was Saved. All because of Luck.In the End, everything else was a Waste Of Time.....
Faith? Pfffttt!......Obedience? Nope ......Love for God? Get outta here with that nonsense.......Love for your Neighbor? Think again, Chester........
When the Final Chapter was written , it Turned out to be just like many thought—- Faith in Jesus was “Necessary” for Salvation, it just wasn’t “ adequate” for Salvation.....something just HAD to be added to what some fools believed the Finished Work Of The Cross had accomplished .....that Addition was “Lucky Repentance “——- the Good Fortune to remember and Repent of all of your Sins before you die ....Best Pray for that above All Else! Everything else is a Waste without THAT!
So that, my friends is Lucky Repentance , a subtle, sinister Addition to the Gospel That MANY people Believe.....Believe that Perverted , False Gospel and “ Fall From Grace” ( Damnation, Perhaps ? ) .....TEACH that Perverted Gospel and be “ Accursed”—— God-Damned Forever....Why so Serious a charge ? God does not take kindly to those that “ Trample” The Blood Of His Son. Read Galatians ...it’s a very short Book.....then tell me that I am wrong.....

Just read Ezekiel 33:1-20, my friend...knowing that is is scripture, inspired by the Lord, and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

You would accuse Ezekiel of preaching a false and perverted gospel...is he now therefore accursed?

When God handed me my Freedom,He also handed me a New Heart

Yet you have admitted that in your own life, your every other thought would shame hell...at least, that is what you imply when you say that such is true of other people...if it weren't true of you, you wouldn't be saying it is true of everyone else...now would you? Some new heart that you have!

and watch God Transform the “ Inside Of the Cup”

It seems to me that you are preaching an empty gospel.

Unless I'm mistaken - it sounds like you agree with my post.

As for the links - I like to make people do their homework . . .

Perhaps now you will be persecuted for obnoxiousness' sake...

(I know, I can just hear it now...you saying that I am obsessed with you)

(no, I am simply responding to something that happened to appear on a thread that I was posting on).

(if you really think that I have come kind of obsession with you, you are on some sort of ego trip, that is all I have to say about it)

(but I do remember our exchanges and respond accordingly).

 

[kcnalp]

No, you're only a debtor to keep all the law, flawlessly, if you are trying to be made righteous by the law. I'm not trying to do that. So I don't have to keep the law in order to be righteous. I am already righteous through the forgiveness of my unrighteousness and the imputation of God's righteousness. Every honest person knows you can't make yourself righteous through keeping the law—because you can't keep it (only righteous people can keep the law). That's what makes that way to be justified futile and worthless. That hardly means you don't uphold the law as a Christian. It only means you can't be made righteous by keeping the law. Christians don't uphold the law to be made righteous. They uphold the law BECAUSE they are righteous by virtue of the Holy Spirit that indwells them. You don't seem to recognize the difference between upholding the law because you are a new creation by the Holy Spirit created to be able do those good works, and 'trying' to keep the law in order to be a new creation. See the difference?

Good luck with keeping the Law. You'll need it.
Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[kcnalp]

I have not said that Christians are under the law; I have said that unbelieving Gentiles are under the law.

Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.

Good luck!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your posts are hard to read but didn't you then condemn serving God out of fear and that God is not pleased with that?

What do you truly desire out of your “ own” Children? “ Perfection” or “ Trust?” Do you want your own Children to FEAR you or do you want them to LOVE you ? The answers are obvious ....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your posts are hard to read but didn't you then condemn serving God out of fear and that God is not pleased with that?

I am sorry that you find my posts, “ hard to read”..... how can I improve ? Seriously.

 

[justbyfaith]

Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.

Good luck!

Act 13:39, And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

1Co 6:9, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11, And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I will not hide the fact that I was once put in a bad situation where I was raped by a homosexual.

So according to the law that you quoted, I deserve to be put to death.

Nevertheless the experience did not "convert" me to that lifestyle...I am happily married to a woman today and continue to despise homosexuality.

I am very thankful for the blood of Jesus...

And the fact that I preach the law so that unbelieving folk might be saved in no way means that I believe that believing folk are under the law. I do not only hold to what it says in Galatians 3:24, but I also believe in what it says in the next verse (Galatians 3:25).

Preaching the law is like a doctor who has medicine who takes the time to explain to the person to whom he is giving the medicine that they have a very real illness and who shows them why they need to take that medicine.

The chances of them actually taking the medicine are extremely higher if they understand why they need to take it.

So, if a man understands that he needs the blood of Jesus because he is truly an adulterer (having lusted after a woman in his heart) and a murderer (having been angry with his brother without a cause), he is more likely to appropriate that blood by faith...he is more likely to surrender his life to Christ and believe in Him and the shed blood of the Cross for his forgiveness.

 

[kcnalp]

Act 13:39, And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

1Co 6:9, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11, And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I will not hide the fact that I was once put in a bad situation where I was raped by a homosexual.

So according to the law that you quoted, I deserve to be put to death.

Nevertheless the experience did not "convert" me to that lifestyle...I am happily married to a woman today and continue to despise homosexuality.

I am very thankful for the blood of Jesus...

And the fact that I preach the law so that unbelieving folk might be saved in no way means that I believe that believing folk are under the law. I do not only hold to what it says in Galatians 3:24, but I also believe in what it says in the next verse (Galatians 3:25).

Preaching the law is like a doctor who has medicine who takes the time to explain to the person to whom he is giving the medicine that they have a very real illness and who shows them why they need to take that medicine.

The chances of them actually taking the medicine are extremely higher if they understand why they need to take it.

So, if a man understands that he needs the blood of Jesus because he is truly an adulterer (having lusted after a woman in his heart) and a murderer (having been angry with his brother without a cause), he is more likely to appropriate that blood by faith...he is more likely to surrender his life to Christ and believe in Him and the shed blood of the Cross for his forgiveness.

The Law of Moses can't save anyone! I'll stick with the New Covenant given to us by the Blood of Jesus. Or do you prefer animal blood sacrifices?

Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Those 613 are for the isrealites only I believe. So only the ten commandments matter. Moses gave us ten on the mountain.

Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” . It is . Why? It can only “ point out” Sin.....it has NO POWER to Save or even STOP Sin......The Law was given so that “ Sin might increase !” You guys want to see Sin increase ? I hope not. So stop preaching it . Paul said that the Law was only beneficial to those who knew how to use it—-you “ use it” by “ stopping your mouth” about any delusions that you can keep it and use it to see that you “ cant” keep it and you need a Savior with a Ton full of Grace to Save you.....
Ten Commandments or Ten Thousand Commandments Don't “ matter” at all, unless you let them do what they were designed to do—- lead you to Christ! Then you can trade in those Laws for something FAR better to guide you and make your life Pleasing to God—that “ something” would be the Holy Spirit. God bless...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

In the New Testament people are made righteous through faith in Christ (Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, 1 John 3:7).

....but then .....they must repent of all of their sins before they die or they go to Hell! Am I Right or wrong? A one word response is all we need here.....thanks...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When this gospel is preached, faith is instilled in the heart of the listener and through that faith they become righteous; and through confession they are saved.

Faith is only “ instilled” if the Holy Spirit opens the Heart Of The Listener so that they are capable of Receiving the Truth......remember the story of “Lydia, the Seller Of Purple ( google it)...The initiative for Salvation belongs to God... “NOBODY come to God lest The Spirit draw him” ....
The Spirit “ draws” by the Conviction Of Sin.....its much easier to look for a Savior , find a Savior and Cling to Him after the Holy Spirit “ opens your eyes” to your Pure Wretchedness .If you are blessed enough to get this Visit from the Holy Spirit , you will know it when you emulate the Sinful Publican and cry out , “ Lord Jesus, have Mercy on me , a Sinner”. That Cry comes from the “ Contrite Heart” that only the Holy Spirit can give to you. Pray for His “ Visit” if you have not yet been driven to your knees as a Lost, Wretched, Hell- Deserving Sinner.Lacking That “ Visit”..... you are still in Satan’s “ Fool’s Paradise”......God Bless......

 

[kcnalp]

..... you are still in Satan’s “ Fool’s Paradise”......God Bless......

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Good luck with keeping the Law. You'll need it.
Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

I don't keep the law, I uphold it. Keeping it implies obeying it to the letter of the law. Upholding it means not being in any violation of it's requirements because, depending on the law, they are either fulfilled through the work of Christ on the cross for me, or fulfilled by me when I actually do them myself in the power of the new creation that I have become.

In the case of the Sabbath you bring up, I don't have to literally keep the law of Sabbath because I've already satisfied God's requirement for Sabbath rest when I believed in Christ and entered into that rest. I don't have to keep the old literal law to try to do that which is already done for me through my faith in the sacrifice of Christ. If this is hard to understand consider how that is true for the lawful requirement to bring a blood sacrifice to God for sin. The believer doesn't have to sacrifice animals anymore because the blood of Christ has already satisfied the righteous requirement for the shedding of blood for your sin. You don't have to shed the blood of an animal for the sin that has already been paid for with blood through your faith in Christ's blood. The law of animal sacrifice doesn't get violated and remain unfulfilled by the work of Christ on the cross. The law of animal sacrifice for sin just becomes unneeded now and can be 'laid aside', as the Bible says. What that law tried to do for me is already done for me through my faith in Christ's sacrifice. So that law can be laid aside and my account marked 'satisfied', or 'fulfilled' as to the righteous requirement demanded by that law, even though I never kept it literally myself. Rather I upheld it, or fulfilled it, through faith in Christ.

That's what it means to uphold the law vs. literally keeping it, and why I think Paul used the words uphold the law instead of keep the law in Romans 3:31. So no need to lay some trip on me about not keeping the law. You don't have to keep the parts of the law that don't have to be kept anymore because what those laws tried to do for you has already been done for you through the blood and body of Christ. That's how faith upholds the law and leaves no requirement of the law violated and unfulfilled despite the fact that you did not literally keep the law.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There are 6 differences between God laws and Mosaic Law.

If a person fails to differentiate these laws, s/he gets confused with which part of the law applies to him/her.

God laws are the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20 while Mosaic Law are all other Old Testament laws found in the Torah or Pentateuch books (first five books of the bible).

6 Differences between God laws and Mosaic Law
The 6 differences are; –

1. God laws were audibly spoken by God at Mount Sinai Ex 19:9, 20:1 And the LORD said to Moses, Lo, I come to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you for ever. And God spoke all these words, saying… While Moses laws were not given audibly but given to Moses privately.
2. God laws were directly written by the figure of God on table stones Ex 31:18: And he gave to Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God, while the Law of Moses was not written by God but by Moses inspired by God Deut 31:9 And Moses wrote this law.
3. It is God who commanded His laws in Mount. Sinai Deut 4:13-14: And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might do them in the land which you go over to possess it. While Moses commanded his laws (the statutes and judgments) to the children of Israel. Notice the two different commanders of the two laws.
4. The law of God was preserved uniquely inside the ark of covenant Ex 25:16: And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you, while the Law of Moses was place on the side of the ark Deut 31:24-26: And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.
5. 2Ki 21:8: Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them. From this verse we see also that there are two different laws. God uses the words ‘I have commanded them’ meaning the Ten Commandments while ‘The laws that my servant Moses commanded them’ meaning the laws of Moses.
6. Daniel revealed this difference between these laws. Dan 9:11: Yea, all Israel have transgressed your law, even by departing, that they might not obey you voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. ‘Your law’ referring to God laws; the Ten Commandments while ‘the law of Moses’ referring to the Mosaic Law.

A Christian has to differentiate these two laws because God’s law (the Ten Commandments) applies to all people at all times while the Law of Moses is specifically for the Jewish people.

This are the 6 differences between God laws and Mosaic Law

God bless

No those 613 laws are only for the isrealites because they are to stay clean and obey the law. Etc. I think. And those 613 laws don't apply anymore unless God has to go back in those 613 laws for people's crucial behavior.

“ By The Deeds Of The Law .....NO FLESH will be Justified......”