Not faith alone?

[BloodBought 1953]

What part of Luke 13:1-5 says that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures?

Now, while I certainly believe in what it says in Luke 13:1-5, I do not believe te fact that excludes that doctrine means that it is not a biblical doctrine.

In the same way, the fact that 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 doesn't say anything about repentance doesn't mean that repentance isn't a biblical doctrine either.

You preach a false and perverted gospel in that you have subtly taught that grace is a license for immorality...subtly; but you do indeed teach it.

THAT IS A FALSE GOSPEL THAT WILL PUT PEOPLE IN HELL.

Pardon me for yelling; but you are not forgiven for trying to identify me as a false teacher when I am doing my prayerful best to preach what is faithful and true.

I am preaching what is faithful and true; or else the Lord does not answer prayer. But we know that He does.

So, if you wanted to start a war with me, you have one. I will do my best to prove to everyone that you are a false teacher. I have already succeeded at doing so; but from now on I will do it again and again until you apologize.

You should have obeyed the Golden Rule.

We can clear all of this up right now ..... I am driving my car. I see a beautiful Girl lying on her front lawn, in a skimpy swimming suit , trying to get a tan.I have a Lustful Thought.Being a married man, my Lustful though makes me no better than an Adulterer .My distracted driving , because I did not keep my eyes on the road , causes me to crash head-on to the Lead Truck in a “Trump Train”.I die instantly . I did NOT have the Time or the Luck to Repent Of my Sinful Lust before I died.Answer me please—- set all of your Evasions and Distractions aside —- will I go to Hell for not Repenting Of That Sin? Newbies to the Faith are deserving of an honest answer to this important question ...without any B. S. ........ an you do it?

 

[justbyfaith]

We can clear all of this up right now ..... I am driving my car. I see a beautiful Girl lying on her front lawn, in a skimpy swimming suit , trying to get a tan.I have a Lustful Thought.Being a married man, my Lustful though makes me no better than an Adulterer .My distracted driving , because I did not keep my eyes on the road , causes me to crash head-on to the Lead Truck in a “Trump Train”.I die instantly . I did NOT have the Time or the Luck to Repent Of my Sinful Lust before I died.Answer me please—- set all of your Evasions and Distractions aside —- will I go to Hell for not Repenting Of That Sin? Newbies to the Faith are deserving of an honest answer to this important question ...without any B. S. ........ an you do it?

Martin Luther once said something to the effect of, "It is only human nature to watch a bird flying overhead; but if you let it come and make a nest in your hair, that is sin."

A person who comes to Jesus is justified through faith in His shed blood; and this blood will have the effect of sanctifying him.

If he sins willfully and obstinately after having come to the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins....including the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Once a man is justified by the blood of Jesus, there is a sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit that takes place.

If it does not take place, then there is a question as to whether the man were ever justified.

If you have been walking with the Lord for years, then you have read your Bible for the same amount of years; and I'm certain that the Bible has convicted you on numerous occasions about the sin of lust. That should lead you to a repentance and the beginning of a relying on the Holy Spirit to deliver you from lust so that you will even "escape the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)

So then, after years of being a Christian, if you are married and see a woman in a bikini on the side of the road, you will not give it a second glance...because you have trained yourself not to even look at a woman lustfully in your heart (see Job 31:1). You didn't pluck out your eye because of such sins (Matthew 5:29), but you did the next best thing...something even better...you appropriated the blood of Jesus to that sin and He cleansed you (1 John 1:7).

Therefore you will not only save your physical life since you will not get into that car accident, you will save your spiritual life because you did not return to a sinful lifestyle in that you did not commit adultery on your wife.

Now, what scripture might lead me to say all of these things?

Consider...

Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

Consider that this is holy scripture that is inspired by the Holy Spirit...

2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Jennifera198337]

Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” . It is . Why? It can only “ point out” Sin.....it has NO POWER to Save or even STOP Sin......The Law was given so that “ Sin might increase !” You guys want to see Sin increase ? I hope not. So stop preaching it . Paul said that the Law was only beneficial to those who knew how to use it—-you “ use it” by “ stopping your mouth” about any delusions that you can keep it and use it to see that you “ cant” keep it and you need a Savior with a Ton full of Grace to Save you.....
Ten Commandments or Ten Thousand Commandments Don't “ matter” at all, unless you let them do what they were designed to do—- lead you to Christ! Then you can trade in those Laws for something FAR better to guide you and make your life Pleasing to God—that “ something” would be the Holy Spirit. God bless...

And what will you say if someone murdered one of your family members after this?

 

[Jennifera198337]

We can clear all of this up right now ..... I am driving my car. I see a beautiful Girl lying on her front lawn, in a skimpy swimming suit , trying to get a tan.I have a Lustful Thought.Being a married man, my Lustful though makes me no better than an Adulterer .My distracted driving , because I did not keep my eyes on the road , causes me to crash head-on to the Lead Truck in a “Trump Train”.I die instantly . I did NOT have the Time or the Luck to Repent Of my Sinful Lust before I died.Answer me please—- set all of your Evasions and Distractions aside —- will I go to Hell for not Repenting Of That Sin? Newbies to the Faith are deserving of an honest answer to this important question ...without any B. S. ........ an you do it?

Well the Bible says to not commit adultery. And I think Jesus said that about man commiting adultery in his heart. I think everyone lusts though..if no one lusted there be no sex. That's why the Bible says it better to marry then 'burn'. The word burn in that verse means to "lust".. if you been single all your life why wouldn't you lust? People who had sex all thier life and are married are used to not feeling lusty more then a single or unmarried person especially if you always having sex. That's why God said "Man shall not be alone". I guess if you become celibate though you can get used to not having sexual thoughts through chastity I mean of course. When you are under the holy spirit and pure..you can control those feelings...etc 1 corinthians 7

 

[HisLife]

If he sins willfully and obstinately after having come to the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins....including the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Common Man, You have admitted that you have done this, If By the Standard you use if it is measured to you you fail your own standard, Don't you see the hypocrisy of your teaching

Do you understand the difference between Sin And Sins? The Bible Talks of wilful sin One time, What do you think that Sin is?

 

[Jennifera198337]

Common Man, You have admitted that you have done this, If By the Standard you use if it is measured to you you fail your own standard, Don't you see the hypocrisy of your teaching

Do you understand the difference between Sin And Sins? The Bible Talks of wilful sin One time, What do you think that Sin is?

It depends what's going on in a person conscience when they are sinning...

 

[HisLife]

It depends what's going on in a person conscience when they are sinning...

What does that mean? that doesn't even answer the question and who would be the one to decide

What do you think was going on in peters conscience In Galatians 2:
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

 

[Jennifera198337]

What does that mean? that doesn't even answer the question and who would be the one to decide

What do you think was going on in peters conscience In Galatians 2:
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

I don't know what was going on in peters conscience.
We are to accept everyone unless they got weapons and drugs nearby and a foul mouth. It seems like peter was being a bit conceited.
Thinking he was better then them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God says we are Saved by Believing

Yes, we are saved by believing "expressing itself through love"—Galatians 5:6. Why are you leaving that part off?

You can't leave that part off. If you have a faith that does not express itself through the love commanded by the law (Romans 13:8-10), you do not have the faith that justifies. You are not born again. You have what James calls 'dead faith' (James 2:17). A faith he says can not save (James 2:14). But the church says James and Paul are both wrong and says the faith that does nothing in this life does justify and does save. How do you explain your teaching that says the faith that does nothing in life is the faith that justifies/saves seeing that the Bible does not agree with that claim?

 

[theefaith]

I answered that in my very next statement.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24), in that it shows mankind that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20, Matthew 1:21); thus converting his soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv))



It is the church that is not under the law (Romans 6:14, Romans 3:9, 1 Corinthians 10:32);

And unbelieving Gentiles don't fit in that category.



I'm sorry, what post was that in?

There are three parts to the law of Moses. Only the ceremonial law was fulfilled the jurisdictional law is still in effect (the authority of the church thru Peter and the apostles and their successors) the moral law is eternal, so Paul tells Christians to obey the moral law

 

[theefaith]

*See post #387.

To automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Have you cosidered "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39? In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. *Perfect harmony*

In John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit.. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

There are still others who would point out that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

I really don't care about what certain fallible men taught for almost 2,000 years. The church fathers were not infallible and did not always agree with each other in all matters of doctrine. I find it strange that in these early writings we find men teaching salvation by water baptism and also salvation through faith alone.

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

They have the words of Jesus Lk 10:16 and the guarantee of the HS Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 jn 13:20

 

[theefaith]

*See post #387.

To automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Have you cosidered "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39? In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. *Perfect harmony*

In John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit.. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

There are still others who would point out that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

I really don't care about what certain fallible men taught for almost 2,000 years. The church fathers were not infallible and did not always agree with each other in all matters of doctrine. I find it strange that in these early writings we find men teaching salvation by water baptism and also salvation through faith alone.

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

They are not refering to our salvation but to the redemption accomplished by Christ!
If anyone says he is justified by faith alone let him be anathema! Holy apostolic council of Trent! the sacraments are required for salvation!

 

[theefaith]

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have a command here by Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations, and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. The same command also includes the clause "teaching them to observe all things" that Christ has commanded them. Makes disciples first, then baptize them and teach them to observe everything He has commanded. Faith in Christ alone is what saves and is a heart decision which causes us to become disciples of Jesus.

Grace is communicated by the sacraments acts 8 Philip preached a Jesus and baptism is the result

 

[mailmandan]

They are not refering to our salvation but to the redemption accomplished by Christ!
If anyone says he is justified by faith alone let him be anathema! Holy apostolic council of Trent! the sacraments are required for salvation!

We are justified by faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

The RCC message is counterfeit.

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

 

[theefaith]

We are justified by faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). The RCC message is counterfeit.

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

No it does not, by faith and works all accomplished thru grace! Grace we receive in the sacraments

faith alone is condemned by the holy apostles Lk 10:16 applies

 

[BreadOfLife]

Perhaps now you will be persecuted for obnoxiousness' sake...
(I know, I can just hear it now...you saying that I am obsessed with you)
(no, I am simply responding to something that happened to appear on a thread that I was posting on).
(if you really think that I have come kind of obsession with you, you are on some sort of ego trip, that is all I have to say about it)
(but I do remember our exchanges and respond accordingly).

On no - you're "not obsessed" with me.

Ummmmmm, am I still on "Ignore" or was that too much for you to handle?

 

[mailmandan]

No it does not, by faith and works all accomplished thru grace! Grace we receive in the sacraments.

faith alone is condemned by the holy apostles Lk 10:16 applies

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith (and works? and sacraments? NO simply faith) into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Salvation through faith in Christ "apart from works" is not condemned by the holy apostles. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). You've been duped by the RCC.

 

[theefaith]

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith (and works? and sacraments? NO simply faith) into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Salvation through faith in Christ "apart from works" is not condemned by the holy apostles. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). You've been duped by the RCC.

1cor 13 all faith avails nothing St. Paul says

 

[kcnalp]

Take it up with David , Paul and Jesus .....they all used That description when “ the shoe fit”. Please...don’t YOU be one! Your “ fetish” in regard to this mere word , like it has some kind of Magical way to send you to Hell if you utter it is bordering on foolishness. I suppose if I refer to you as an “ idiot or dotard” Everything is fine—— just don’t use that “ F” Word! It has Supernatural Power to damn you—- it’s not the Thinking behind it...( that’s Exactly what Jesus had in mind)

Go ahead and make excuses for calling people "fool". You can't say you weren't warned.

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[mailmandan]

1cor 13 all faith avails nothing St. Paul says

Paul uses hyperbole about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love in order to stress the importance of love. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love/acts of charity/works." Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after the "assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" are now seen (Hebrews 11:1) and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope," expectation of what is sure and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because we are now in His presence, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his saints are and do. So in 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save without producing "enough" love/acts of charity/works. We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).