OBEDIENCE IS NOT A BAD WORD

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GEN2REV

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We also can read the Word of God itself and see what it has to say that reinforces our faith.
I think you're suggesting that I read the Bible and only see what reinforces that which I already believe, or what I want it to say, but that's not how it happened for me.

I read it to find out who God is and what He is like and what He likes, dislikes, etc.

With that approach, I discovered that He gave us the 10 Commandments and Jesus preached them, obeyed them Himself and His disciples obeyed them after His death.

That's what's in there and that's what I found.

It makes life simple to respect and obey the Commandments God gave us.

10 rules to live by. How much easier could it get?
 

MatthewG

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@robert derrick I am deciding not to comment towards you, once again for your post... You're a funny guy. I am not gonna get frustrated over someone on the internet.
 

MatthewG

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I think you're suggesting that I read the Bible and only see what reinforces that which I already believe, or what I want it to say, but that's not how it happened for me.

I read it to find out who God was and what He is like and what He likes, dislikes, etc.

With that approach, I discovered that He gave us the 10 Commandments and Jesus preached them, obeyed them Himself and His disciples obeyed them after His death.

That's what's in there and that's what I found.

It makes life simple to respect and obey the Commandments God gave us.

It wasn't about you. It was an open invitation for all to be encouraged to read all the Bible, Old Testament, and New. Learn about God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the history that has been done throughout the expansion of the Bible.
 

MatthewG

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Hope you got to read this @GEN2REV

Oh okay thank you for sharing how you learned about God through the 10 commandments.

That is something that must be personal to you in your testimony. Just re-read what you did write, as my post was really to all, not just to you.

The Law is a witness that leads people to Christ once they realize the truth about what Jesus had done. Which is important to learn and know, that Christ was the one who fulfilled the law, and is the end of the law to righteousness!
 

robert derrick

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Please refer to post number #36, @GEN2REV.

Good for you if you do that. I do not try to do anything, I just believe and abide in Christ. Maybe that is the difference between me and you.

We also can read the Word of God itself and see what it has to say that reinforces our faith.

You see the problem is not that you are hypocrite. The problem is only when you try to teach it for doctrine of Christ.

Your problem also is you having accepted your hypocrisy by your own false doctrine, by which you watch phonography while abiding in Christ.

You see, all Christians, including Paul, know the wretchedness of double heartedness. It's just that we don't all make a lifetime celebration of grace out of it.

Now, if you were like Paul was, and I have been, bewailing your wretched state of hypocrisy, that would be something honest to seek to help deliver you from. But resorting to your pseudo-Christian smooze of grace is disgusting.

It has nothing to do with liking you. I am quite sure you are neighborly, as I, and apart from your false doctrine of grace, we would get alone just fine.

As I said, for them who love the law of the Lord, Scripture is not just a useful tool to be used as we wish.

The Bible is just a tool to you. It is not Scripture of truth that you trust your soul with to obey. You are like any other neighborly sinner around the world that sees the Bible as a useful tool, to use as you like for a better life in this world.

So, you like to think of yourself as a Christian, fine. It doesn't matter to me.

But preaching lukewarm pap for doctrine of Christ is sickening to them that love to do the truth, and love Jesus with all the heart as the true and eternal God of Life: His blood deserves better praise.

Jesus is not your righteousness, because you reject His righteousness to do it by your own workd. Jesus is not the righteousness of any sinner against God, who willfully knowingly accepts his corrupt heart and dead soul as it is.

Jesus is only the righteousness of them that do His righteousness, and so are righteous as He is righteous.

He living in us is the righteousness which we do.

He is not living within any committed sinner on earth. Stick to your useful tool ideology, and stop lying about Jesus as the righteous minister of sins.

Or, you could just repent and call upon Him with the heart to purify your soul, and so be and do as He did in the days of His flesh.

But, you won't do that, will you? You like your comfy sinner zone.

As I said. It's not you being a hypocrite that is the problem. We could still be good neighbors. Just knock off teaching it to others. You will pay double for that:

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


You are a reason why the grace and blood of Jesus is evil spoken of as just a means for sinning without judgment of God.

You ever-learn about the Bible, and it makes you feel good. Fine. But you don't do it. Which also would not be a big problem, except that you go about teaching others how to be saved unconditionally by learning and not doing.

First stop being a teacher of hypocrisy, then you might actually begin repenting of being a hypocrite, and God can do His purifying work in you too.
 

MatthewG

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They way you are talking to me isn't helping @robert derrick. You sin to man, chill out.

It is why one needs Jesus...

Judge not, least ye be judged. - Jesus.
 
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MatthewG

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It was good to talk to you guys tonight, have a good rest when you get there. :) God is good. Very thankful for what God has done for all of humanity through the Lord Jesus Christ who paid for the sins of all people. We shouldn't use our freedom in Christ to sin, however Ill be if sin doesn't continue to reside with-in my flesh. The Spirit is what helps dampens the flesh that always has a notion to pop up from time to time.

Praise be to God, sing to him, hymns, pray for your friends, and those who have problems with you, remember your home is in the heavenly and not here totally. Those who have problems with friends and families, may Gods hand be in their lives, and please be encouraged to pray, and read your bibles!

God is love - he is love, always will be love in the Agape sense - (1 Corinthians 13).

Take care.
 
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EloyCraft

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  1. Jesus learned obedience through suffering.
That means that when there is no obstacle obedience is easy.

It's when we would rather go left or right but obedience to the truth requires we go where we would rather not go.



  1. Hebrews 5:8
    Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through his sufferings,
 
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stephen64

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Incredible.

I like you better than the other guru. There is almost a sweet innocence about your ignorance. He spends so much time with his quasi-spiritual-mystical-Scriptural language, that he cannot bring himself to just say anything outright.

You however, have no such guile. You really believe what you are saying, and so don't know what you are really saying.

I'll tell you what. I will refrain from belittling you any further. I will simple ask you more of what you believe, so that I can perfectly understand your mind.

1. Is there any law of God written on any paper on earth, that we must answer to, because it judges us of our deeds, not matter that the thought and intent of the heart was?

2. Is the law written in your heart, which you have no say in the matter, the only law of God that you can be judged by?

I.e. the only sin you can commit, is the sin of doing anything without faith?

So long as you believe what you are doing, then it must be right?

So long as you do something by your faith, there is no written law that can come against it?

Help me out friend. I really do want to know exactly what you think, so long as you are able to clarify it.
From another thread:
The pharisees neglected the love of God(Luke11:42) They saw themselves as people who could attain to heaven by being good enough under the law. What need had they for the great love, mercy and compassion of God. They had no real love or gratitude to the Father. The greatest commandment of all is broken. They crushed the people with strictly quoting the letter of the law to them and demanding strict obedience to it. They were not concerned how that affected anyone else, they just wanted the people to believe they were where they told others they must be. They wanted the praise of men. Though from Jesus words we know they were hypocrites who did not practice what they preached. So they broke the second greatest commandment as well. Love your neighbour as yourself. The two greatest commandments upon which all the law hung were ignored. They hit rock bottom where righteousness was concerned. So: “unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!
And there is many around today with their attitude brother, even on internet debating websites!
 

stephen64

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@GEN2REV

Okay, but some people really believe that they are more righteous than others.

Only God knows the secrets of the heart in that case. I can't judge those people if that is what they are like...

Saying for say look at MatthewG, I am better than him because of whatever whatever.

So, even though it might not be claimed doesn't mean it doesn't reside in someones heart and mind out there.

To look and be openly honest about this subject when I first became a Christian the first thing I did was look at everyone else, and thought I personally was better than them, I was arrogant, and confrontational. Thank God for the Lord Jesus Christ and drawing closer to God and He helped me realize how wrong that I really was.
Brother, you are chatting to people with purely phariseeical natures. Jesus warned us:
Beware of the yeast of the pharisees and saducees which is hypocrisy. Luke12:1
Going by the biblical example, I would think it is certain their sin is far worse than any you might have. And none of us are perfect, some just like to make out they are, or that they are very close to it to try and impress others, just as they did in Jesus day. Nothings changed in that regard
 

GEN2REV

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Christ was the one who fulfilled the law, and is the end of the law to righteousness!
Another thing that every single Commandment-hater says. (Not that you're one, I don't know. Are you?)

Think about this for 2 seconds. If it were even remotely possible for God's 10 Commandments to be abolished, Christ would not have had to die to erase the sins of God's people.

Do you understand the math there? And please don't give me one of your generic "Thank you for your post. We all see things differently." nonsense. Please think about what is being said here because it's 100% Biblical.

Sin = the breaking of the 10 Commandments (FACT)
God's Word = can never be broken - especially those spoken aloud in this world (FACT)

Therefore, if it were possible for God to simply do away with His Laws that He wrote IN STONE, there would literally have been NO NEED whatsoever for Jesus to incarnate and die as the most significant SIN-sacrifice in the history of Creation.

He DID have to do that because the Law CANNOT be repealed which means, due specifically to that FACT, that SIN is still a factor.

The 10 Commandments are now STILL valid and will be so until the end of this world.

Can you process all of that? Sincerely.

It is 100% Biblical FACT.
 

ScottA

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Eternal salvation for them that obey Him is eternal. Your mystical salvation by your own saving grace is temporal only.


They that are dead to sin are they that obey the gospel. They that are dead in their sins and trespasses are they that obey not the gospel.

No matter how cutely you have learned to write mystery for doctrine of Christ, You're dual nature theology is still rubbish.

You do so hate the word of obedience.



Hmm. Tough choice.

I'll pick A: you that sin are 'that person' that sins, not Christ.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But B is also good: you that sin, deny Christ.

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

And then there is C: you that sin and say it is not you, but Christ that liveth in you, you are accusing Him of ministering sin.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Strong delusion: them in Christ Jesus is no more they. And so them that sin with the body is no more they that sin.

And to say they are doing the sinning, is to accuse Jesus of doing the sinning, because it is no more they that live, but Christ Jesus in them.

And so, when your body sins, to say you have sinned, is false accusation, since there is no more law against sinning written on earth, and since it is Jesus in you doing the deed, it cannot be sin.

And so, fornication is no more sin by them in Christ Jesus, but rather is the law within their heart being established as the new righteousness of God: Fornication by grace through faith.

The only antichrist here is someone saying they are no longer in the physical body of flesh, and so it is no more their dead souls that sin, but only their dead flesh.

And yes, when you are sinning, it is not Christ Jesus in you, because He is not in you at all.

They accused Paul of being mad by much learning. They would say you are simply insane, and wouldn't give you another minute of their time. They wouldn't even bother to persecute you.



I don't agree. Errors can be very instructive.

Remember what I said in private: I only wanted to know exactly what you are teaching. I never said I agreed with any of it. And after much mystical pseudo-spirit speak, you finally said it plainly:

It is not I that sinneth, but that old sinful body that sinneth without me, while Christ yet liveth within me.

Keep it up.
You did not quote me. But I have just quoted you denying the scriptures. Oh, and that "spirit-speak"--that is the Holy Spirit. Strike three.

So be it.
 

MatthewG

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Brother, you are chatting to people with purely phariseeical natures. Jesus warned us:
Beware of the yeast of the pharisees and saducees which is hypocrisy. Luke12:1
Going by the biblical example, I would think it is certain their sin is far worse than any you might have. And none of us are perfect, some just like to make out they are, or that they are very close to it to try and impress others, just as they did in Jesus day. Nothings changed in that regard

Always hoping to help someone out there you know.
 

MatthewG

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@GEN2REV,

I am glad that the commandments of God never were given to us Nation of America. Aside from that I am glad all of us have broken the law.

Sure if the Law could be followed perfectly there would be no need for Jesus, but no one can. No matter how hard they try, this is the reason I accept my faults and understand that I am a sinner saved by grace (though people think this is a negative), through faith in Jesus who done everything not just for me but for the entire world.

Praise be to God always!
 

Robert Gwin

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There is no law now engraved in stone or on parchments for the believer, no, it is in our hearts and minds instead, much better place to be.

OSAS has gone from not obeying the law of God to now declaring His law is dead: no law written in Scripture on pen and paper exists anymore.

Why would someone even think that? Because obedience to a law is hateful to them, even as it is to the devil: Not the law of man, whom they can see and be punished by, but only the law of God, Whom they cannot see and do not fear.

Neither
the devil nor his spiritual kingdom of OSAS can stand to even hear the word 'Obedience'.

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


The faith of OSAS is all about feeling it. Faith to them is only what they feel like doing, and has nothing to do with obedience.

They are rebellious children who have yet to grow up: All they want to do is to live by their own loving feelings of faith.

So much so, that obedience to them is not just odious, but a sin: if any man obeys the law of God written in Scripture, he is not righteous and becomes unrighteous, because he cannot be doing it by feeling of faith.

If they don't understand, think, feel, or believe it, then they won't do it. They will obey man, whether they like it or not, but they will never obey God just because He said to do it.

"But Dad, why do I have to do that??" "Because I told you so, and that's all the reason you need."

They truly believe that living by faith is only doing what they believe. For them they live only by faith, so that obedience has nothing to do with it.

They are in the spiritual kingdom of liberty and freedom to do all things only by faith, where nothing is ever done by obedience, and whatever they choose to do by feeling of faith is good and righteous and the law of their own hearts and minds.

You got that right Rob! In fact it is the way we show love for God 1 Jn 5:3 and how we are granted everlasting life Mat 7:21
 

GEN2REV

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@GEN2REV,

I am glad that the commandments of God never were given to us Nation of America.
Because God made Salvation completely Free for everyone but His select people. They have to work for it and if they fail, they go to hell; but everybody else who has no special relation to Him at all can go to heaven for absolutely Free.

Does that really make any sense?

Have you ever thought this through?
 

MatthewG

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It does to me, because even Jesus went to hell.

Before we had been born. See Jesus has conquered over Sin, Death, Sheol/Grave/Hell, Satan, and His Demons and those who were is select people (144,000) who went through much more than any of us, were taken when the wrath of God fell on Jerusalem as promised by the Messiah and all material religion was done away with.

Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the law given to the nation of Israel, and Israel at that time did not desire a King and they had the messiah killed, and their punishment would be the destruction of their heaven and earth they understood, and be opened to a new way in which a new covenant was restored - which is a covenant where God writes his laws on the hearts and minds of those who are His and are having a relationship with Him through Jesus, praying and giving thanks, talking to the Father to help you with whatever issues you are facing in Jesus name.

Because of everything Jesus has done for all of humanity I personally do no believe people go hell/Sheol - I personally believe people after this life are resurrected and those who desires to love God in faith and worship in spirit and in truth, living a humble, simple and honest life before God, and they seek him out in faith.

God rewards those who do this and they will have a place in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Those who do not desire this from the heart, which is having a relationship with God, through prayer, seeking out truth, looking into the light, searching through the darkness.

They will have their own fill of what they may have desired over God having worshipped instead themselves or idols that were against the true and living God they to will be resurrected though place outside of the kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem affording to what Revelation 22 implies at least to me personally, and not everyone would agree.
 

GEN2REV

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It does to me, because even Jesus went to hell.

Before we had been born. See Jesus has conquered over Sin, Death, Sheol/Grave/Hell, Satan, and His Demons and those who were is select people (144,000) who went through much more than any of us, were taken when the wrath of God fell on Jerusalem as promised by the Messiah and all material religion was done away with.

Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the law given to the nation of Israel, and Israel at that time did not desire a King and they had the messiah killed, and their punishment would be the destruction of their heaven and earth they understood, and be opened to a new way in which a new covenant was restored - which is a covenant where God writes his laws on the hearts and minds of those who are His and are having a relationship with Him through Jesus, praying and giving thanks, talking to the Father to help you with whatever issues you are facing in Jesus name.

Because of everything Jesus has done for all of humanity I personally do no believe people go hell/Sheol - I personally believe people after this life are resurrected and those who desires to love God in faith and worship in spirit and in truth, living a humble, simple and honest life before God, and they seek him out in faith.

God rewards those who do this and they will have a place in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Those who do not desire this from the heart, which is having a relationship with God, through prayer, seeking out truth, looking into the light, searching through the darkness.

They will have their own fill of what they may have desired over God having worshipped instead themselves or idols that were against the true and living God they to will be resurrected though place outside of the kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem affording to what Revelation 22 implies at least to me personally, and not everyone would agree.
John says sin is still a problem for Christians.
1 John 2:1
 

MatthewG

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Thankfully Jesus has paid for your sin...

It should turn one to being grateful towards Jesus and what he has done. Not sure what to say about sin.

Everyone sins. If you sin to much and you start to forget about God, do not get lost in remember that what God has done for you, by showing his love that while we were still sinners...


Romans 5:1 And this hope will not lead to disappointment. For we know how dearly God loves us, because he has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.

6When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners.

7 Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good.

8But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners.

9And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation (In this day this could also allude to the wrath of God that would fall upon Jerusalem in 70ad -MG).

(Still applicable today, that one is made right with God in God's sight by the blood of Christ - believing in the death, burial and resurrection, and I suppose God's condemnation from the Holy Spirit if you possibly sin as a believer in Christ?)

10For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son.

11So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God.