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Bible Highlighter

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I have never read anything in the NKJV that I would consider deleting. Unlike other modern versions they included verses that are in dispute and provided footnotes to explain what was disputed. I don’t think more information is a bad thing.
Sorry. I disagree. There are obvious problems with the NKJV.

Zechariah 13:6

King James Bible
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

New King James Version
And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’

Thomas talked about how if he did not see the nail prints in his hands he would not believe.


Psalms 10:5

King James Bible
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.

New King James Version
The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
His ways are always prospering; Your judgments are far above, out of his sight; As for all his enemies, he sneers at them.


Genesis 13:15

King James Bible
For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

New King James Version
for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever.

Note: Why would this be a problem? Descendants are seed, right? It’s saying the same thing, right?

Galatians 3:16 explains this.

Galatians 3:16 says,

”Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

Please note that the NKJV says the same thing in Galatians 3:16, and so it makes it blatant error.


Proverbs 18:8

King James Bible
The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

New King James Version
The words of a talebearer are like tasty trifles, And they go down into the inmost body.

Really? Tasty trifles? Come on now.


Proverbs 19:18

King James Bible
Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

New King James Version
Chasten your son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction.

This is why kids today are becoming more spoiled because they are not being chastened properly when they do wrong.
This kind of attitude leads “Don’t judge me” or “Don’t judge others” type of attitude. There is one NKJV proponent I know who basically said that the Christian Colorado cake baker was wrong for refusing to bake a wedding cake for two people (Which was something that went against his biblical beliefs involving marriage involving them). Keep in mind that this NKJV proponent is somebody who is against OSAS and who is for holiness big time. Granted, I care for this person in Christ, but I strongly disagree with his judgment on this matter.


1 Thessalonians 5:22

King James Bible
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

New King James Version
Abstain from every form of evil.

Obviously one is more likely to justify celebrating Halloween more with the NKJV reading vs. the KJB reading.

Meanwhile you got the serpent hissing in the background telling you, “Yea, hath God said?” In regards to various verses and words in the Bible pointing to how they are not in the NU (Nestle and Aland Critical text) in the footnotes. This is getting a person to doubt the Bible.

Why? So you can delete or add as you see fit (Placing yourself in the seat of God in what He really said):

Here again is page 1235 in the 1982 NKJV Edition.

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Davy

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The Textus Receptus was the source for the NT in the NKJV. New King James Version - Wikipedia
The NKJV has a note in it that shows "NU", which is the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies CRITICAL TEXT, which is NOT the Textus Receptus. The NU symbol means the Critical Greek text based on Wescott and Hort's new Greek text of 1881 taken mainly from the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.

So NO... the New King James Version Bible is NOT the same Bible as the 1611 KJV. Instead, those who say the NKJV uses the same Greek text as the 1611 KJV are presenting a HOAX.
 

Davy

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You are seriously mistaken and believe the propaganda about the KJV, and Wescott and Hort. That arguement has been disproved over and over. We have a wonderful choice of many excellent translations today, most of them based on the best available texts -- more than existed in the early 1600s -- as well as excellent work by groups of qualified scholars.

Why not join the 21st Century in your approach to God's word and stop the false self-righteousness associated with a single translation created to bolster a secular king's authority?
What is revealed in the documentary link I presented is not propaganda. It's actually THE OTHER WAY AROUND, THOSE BACKING THE CORRUPT CRITICAL GREEK TEXT based on the work of Wescott and Hort are the ones presenting PROPAGANDA.
 
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Jim B

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Sorry. I disagree. There are obvious problems with the NKJV.

Zechariah 13:6

King James Bible
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

New King James Version
And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’

Thomas talked about how if he did not see the nail prints in his hands he would not believe.


Psalms 10:5

King James Bible
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.

New King James Version
The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
His ways are always prospering; Your judgments are far above, out of his sight; As for all his enemies, he sneers at them.


Genesis 13:15

King James Bible
For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

New King James Version
for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever.

Note: Why would this be a problem? Descendants are seed, right? It’s saying the same thing, right?

Galatians 3:16 explains this.

Galatians 3:16 says,

”Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

Please note that the NKJV says the same thing in Galatians 3:16, and so it makes it blatant error.


Proverbs 18:8

King James Bible
The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

New King James Version
The words of a talebearer are like tasty trifles, And they go down into the inmost body.

Really? Tasty trifles? Come on now.


Proverbs 19:18

King James Bible
Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

New King James Version
Chasten your son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction.

This is why kids today are becoming more spoiled because they are not being chastened properly when they do wrong.
This kind of attitude leads “Don’t judge me” or “Don’t judge others” type of attitude. There is one NKJV proponent I know who basically said that the Christian Colorado cake baker was wrong for refusing to bake a wedding cake for two people (Which was something that went against his biblical beliefs involving marriage involving them). Keep in mind that this NKJV proponent is somebody who is against OSAS and who is for holiness big time. Granted, I care for this person in Christ, but I strongly disagree with his judgment on this matter.


1 Thessalonians 5:22

King James Bible
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

New King James Version
Abstain from every form of evil.

Obviously one is more likely to justify celebrating Halloween more with the NKJV reading vs. the KJB reading.

Meanwhile you got the serpent hissing in the background telling you, “Yea, hath God said?” In regards to various verses and words in the Bible pointing to how they are not in the NU (Nestle and Aland Critical text) in the footnotes. This is getting a person to doubt the Bible.

Why? So you can delete or add as you see fit (Placing yourself in the seat of God in what He really said):

Here again is page 1235 in the 1982 NKJV Edition.

full
Over time I have enjoyed your posts -- but not this one. 8^(

Every English translation has "problems", including both the KJV and the NKJV. As you know, the earliest Bible manuscripts are written in ancient languages that have many differences between them and English (including early 17th Century English). Even if we had perfect sources (which we don't), there are still many differences between ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek. There are even differences between the Hebrew OT and the Septuagint, the OT in use in the era of Jesus, His disciples, and Paul.

Here is the NET translator's note for Zecheriah 13:6: "tn Heb “wounds between your hands.” Cf. NIV “wounds on your body”; KJV makes this more specific: “wounds in thine hands.”sn These wounds on your chest. Pagan prophets were often self-lacerated (Lev 19:28; Deut 14:1; 1 Kgs 18:28) for reasons not entirely clear, so this false prophet betrays himself as such by these graphic and ineradicable marks." If the Hebrew says "wounds between your hands", where exactly is that? The air? "Wounds in thine hands" is therefore an inaccurate but reasonable interpretation.

If you look at Psalms 10:5, the translations are "all over the place" For example, the NRSVue has it as "Their ways prosper at all times; your judgments are on high, out of their sight; as for their foes, they scoff at them." Clearly, this verse is difficult to translate into English.

The comment on Genesis 13:15 and Galatians 3:16 isn't even worth commenting on.

Regarding Proverbs 18:8, most translations agree with the NKJV, not the KJV. For example, the NET: "The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; and they have gone down into the person’s innermost being." How do wounds go down into the belly? That makes no sense.

Your comment on Proverbs 19:18 -- This is why kids today are becoming more spoiled because they are not being chastened properly when they do wrong. This kind of attitude leads “Don’t judge me” or “Don’t judge others” type of attitude." -- is very strange. I have two wonderful grandchildren who have many wonderful friends. Have you actually done a survey of how today's kids are disciplined and how that affects their behavior? I sincerely doubt it! Kids today are as wonderful as kids of every generation.

Your comment on the NKJV person is also strange and irrelevant. And justifying beating children is very bizarre! It is a great way to be arrested for child abuse!

Your comment 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is both trivial and irrelevant.

Finally, writing "Meanwhile you got the serpent hissing in the background telling you, “Yea, hath God said?” In regards to various verses and words in the Bible pointing to how they are not in the NU (Nestle and Aland Critical text) in the footnotes. This is getting a person to doubt the Bible" is mean-spirited and wrong. I suggest that you read the parable about the Pharisee and the publican (meaning tax collector) in Luke 18:9-14. Here it is in the KJV, chopped up into separate verses (which is, of course, not the way it was originally written), with my emphasis:

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

As I wrote earlier, I have read many of your posts and have been edified by them. Not this time though> I just assume that you're having a bad day.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Over time I have enjoyed your posts -- but not this one.
Dear Jim.

Grace, peace, and love to you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

I do hope that while I did offer some posts that you found enjoyable, that you will not hold it against me for my own conviction of what I believe is true. This is not a topic that I believe we should divide over as brothers in Christ. I do have one brother I know personally who does not believe the King James Bible is inerrant or perfect, but we love each other as brothers in Christ greatly.

We actually disagree on other things, but we hug it as Christians.

I pray that you will not think less of me for my stand on what I believe is true. After all, I see it as a part of my faith. But we can agree to disagree in love (of course) and stand upon those other great things that glorify the Lord Jesus and His good ways.


Every English translation has "problems", including both the KJV and the NKJV.
From my perspective and experience, I do not see it that way.
When I first started out in the faith back in 1992, I could quickly see the changes for the worse, and not for the better in Modern Translations compared to the King James Bible. Sure, the KJB is extremely difficult to read. I also believe we should read Modern Translations, as well. So I disagree with my KJB Only brethren. I prefer to call myself “Core KJB” because while the King James Bible is my core foundation or base, I do agree that the King James Bible is very difficult to understand at times, and therefore we should read Modern English bibles to help update our understanding on 1600’s English (Without having to create another translation). I know. You disagree even with my position and that’s okay. Again, we as believers are not going to agree on everything in this life.

I see it as… if there is no perfect Bible, then how can I trust what God said?
If there is no perfect Bible then how can I determine what is true or false in His Word?
Many times what we may think is an error is not really an error at all but it is based on our limited human reasoning.
But most importantly I believe the way I do because it fits best in what we see in the Bible.
The prophets and apostles did not look to some ancient language. The Jews did not ask Jesus, “Master, what translation of the Hebrew Scriptures are you referring to?” What we see in the Bible is God preserving His word with copies. We see this in Jeremiah and Deuteronomy.


As you know, the earliest Bible manuscripts are written in ancient languages that have many differences between them and English (including early 17th Century English). Even if we had perfect sources (which we don't), there are still many differences between ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek. There are even differences between the Hebrew OT and the Septuagint, the OT in use in the era of Jesus, His disciples, and Paul.
I understand this is the story told by scholars or the religious elite class, but I prefer to believe the Bible to build my faith and not the words of men. Yes, there is a degree I believe in history, but I look at it as secondary and it is not on the same level as Scripture to me. I realize that history written by men could be wrong.

In other words, if history recorded by men aligns with my faith in God’s Word, then I do give it some credence or weight but I do realize that even this could potentially be wrong by a small percentage.

What I know is true 100% is God’s Word (The Bible).

As for the LXX:

Well, we have to understand that Jesus spoke about jots and tittles. Jots and tittles are marks in Hebrew and not Greek. Jots and tittles are kind of like the crossing of our “t’s” or the dotting of our “i’s”; But they are Hebrew marks that make up Hebrew letters (that form words in the Hebrew).

Jesus also did not go out first to the Gentiles (Greeks) but he went first to Israel or the Jews. Jesus even almost ignored a Canaanite lady because he was first sent to the Jews and not the Gentiles. So the idea that some like to spin that there was an LXX (or Septuagint) existing before Christ’s birth seems highly unlikely.

Jesus said salvation was of the Jews. The Jews were supposed to be a light to the Gentiles. But seeing they failed in that mission, Jesus succeeded where they failed.


Here is the NET translator's note for Zecheriah 13:6: "tn Heb “wounds between your hands.” Cf. NIV “wounds on your body”; KJV makes this more specific: “wounds in thine hands.”sn These wounds on your chest. Pagan prophets were often self-lacerated (Lev 19:28; Deut 14:1; 1 Kgs 18:28) for reasons not entirely clear, so this false prophet betrays himself as such by these graphic and ineradicable marks." If the Hebrew says "wounds between your hands", where exactly is that? The air? "Wounds in thine hands" is therefore an inaccurate but reasonable interpretation.
Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW's) falsely teach that the cross is pagan. JW's erroneously believe that Jesus was on a stake and not a cross. In one JW picture from JW.org they show Jesus with one nail going through his hands of which you can check out in their website page here.

Yet, in John 20:25 of their own New World Translation (on their own website) states, “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails...”; In the photo of Jesus they have on their official website with him being on a stake they show only ONE NAIL in his hands. Yet, their own translation on their website says NAILS in his hands. So they are contradicting themselves. The Bible they used before the New World Translation that they used was the King James Bible (KJB). The KJB mentions the word “cross” and not a “stake” that their new updated catered Bible falsely says. This is evil to say that the cross is pagan when the word cross was in the earliest English bibles even before the King James Bible. Even the cross can be seen in the Israelite camp arrangement in the Old Testament.

Anyways, why do I bring up the JW's misinterpretation on not believing how Christ was nailed to a cross? Well, because it relates to John 20 telling us also about the truth of how Jesus was wounded in his hands. It also illustrates that a religion can be false for teaching false truths, as well. But my point here is that Jesus wounds were in his hands and not between his arms (According to Scripture). You cannot say there are wounds (plural) between his arms when it was only one wound (a spear in his side puncturing Him to make sure He was dead - John 19:24). Yet, I can say wounds in my hands to refer to one wound each in both of my hands and it would not be a contradiction of grammar to say that.

John 19:24 says,
"But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water."

But again, it comes back to John 19:34, and John 20.
The only wound Jesus had on his side was one and that was with a spear.
It was not multiple wounds in between his arms. There was just one wound there.
But Thomas clearly said that unless he seen his HANDS the print of the nails, he would not believe.
When Jesus encountered Thomas, he said to him, “Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.” This means that the nail print marks in his hands could be felt and seen.

Plus, the NKJV earlier editions had the words “in your hands,” but they later took that out and changed it. No doubt this was of course influenced so as to retain the copyright (So that they could make money).

If you look at Psalms 10:5, the translations are "all over the place" For example, the NRSVue has it as "Their ways prosper at all times; your judgments are on high, out of their sight; as for their foes, they scoff at them." Clearly, this verse is difficult to translate into English.
Psalms 10:5 is merely showing a pattern of inaccuracy. If we were talking about just one or two verses here and there, then that would be one thing, but the overwhelming number of verses that are changed for the worse, and not for the better is the idea here.


The comment on Genesis 13:15 and Galatians 3:16 isn't even worth commenting on.
Not sure why you skipped this one. This one really proves that the NKJV made a huge mistake and shows that is not as accurate as the King James Bible. Galatians 3:16 makes a point about seed (singular) and not seeds (plural) in both the NKJV and the KJB. Yet, in the NKJV it removes the OT reference on mentioning the seed (singular) in Genesis 13:15. So if the NKJV is all you knew, then you have no clue as to what Galatians 3:16 was talking about.

I will try and address the rest of what you wrote soon (Lord willing).

May His grace, and peace always be upon you.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Regarding Proverbs 18:8, most translations agree with the NKJV, not the KJV. For example, the NET: "The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; and they have gone down into the person’s innermost being." How do wounds go down into the belly? That makes no sense.
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Your comment on Proverbs 19:18 -- This is why kids today are becoming more spoiled because they are not being chastened properly when they do wrong. This kind of attitude leads “Don’t judge me” or “Don’t judge others” type of attitude." -- is very strange. I have two wonderful grandchildren who have many wonderful friends. Have you actually done a survey of how today's kids are disciplined and how that affects their behavior? I sincerely doubt it! Kids today are as wonderful as kids of every generation. And justifying beating children is very bizarre! It is a great way to be arrested for child abuse!
As you may know: Proverbs 19:18, and Proverbs 13:24 are hotly debated verse amongst believers today.

So it's not my intention to get people to be more heated than they already are. But I also cannot help but to share what I believe is the truth in my growing knowledge of God's Word.

First, I believe the New Testament teaches Non-Violence (Which was not the case for the Old Covenant). So why would I believe in child abuse or physical striking type discipline of the child like spanking or hitting them with an actual rod? I don't. In fact, spanking is not even mentioned in the Bible, and yet many Christians substitute a physical rod (from Proverbs 13:24) that would hurt more and leave potential marks in place of spanking instead. Hence, they are following a tradition of "man made spanking" and not the Bible (if indeed they take the idea that the rod is literal in their view in Proverbs 13:24).

Second, I do believe parents do need to give their children discipline (like taking away privileges, lovingly explaining to them the consequences of their actions, and or relating to them how would they like it if something similar was done to them, etcetera) otherwise they will grow up to be spoiled brats.

The "rod" mentioned in Hebrews is symbolic of our "correction" of a child and or person.

Proverbs 22:15
"Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Surely we do not use an actual physical rod against a fool's back today.

Proverbs 26:3
"A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back."

So a rod on a fool's back (in this above Proverb) is either a metaphor; And if it isn't, then it would be an inapplicable Old Covenant precept of which does not apply to us New Covenant believers who follow Jesus and His apostles. For our Lord and His followers never taught us this but He taught us to turn the other cheek if we are struck and to love and pray for our enemies.

But children do need to be disciplined or they can turn out to be spoiled brats.

Check out this article here:

My point is that a child will cry and not want to be disciplined.

Just watch a few episodes of Supernanny and you will see what I am talking about.


Here is another great Christian article of what I am talking about involving loving discipline.



Not all children are headed in the right direction these days, though.
Things are getting worse.

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I believe a lack of their being taught the Bible properly (in love), and being disciplined properly is a part of the problem of this happening.

Image source:

Your comment on the NKJV person is also strange and irrelevant.
I respectfully disagree, brother. I don't believe it is because the NKJV discourages proper discipline in a popular verse in Proverbs and that can affect how a person believes and thinks. I know I have seen it with this Christian person and that's the point I am getting it. Bad theology from a bad bible leads to bad unfaithful actions or false beliefs.


Your comment 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is both trivial and irrelevant.
Again, I respectfully disagree.

Halloween is unbiblical and 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is one of several verses that refutes a Christian's participation in such an evil holiday. The King James Bible shows the true clarity of truth on our instructions not to participate in such darkness. Most Modern versions change this and thus... make them to participate in a dark and worldly holiday that is pure evil.

Check out my quick short write up here on why Halloween is not biblical.

Why Halloween is unbiblical.


Finally, writing "Meanwhile you got the serpent hissing in the background telling you, “Yea, hath God said?” In regards to various verses and words in the Bible pointing to how they are not in the NU (Nestle and Aland Critical text) in the footnotes. This is getting a person to doubt the Bible" is mean-spirited and wrong. I suggest that you read the parable about the Pharisee and the publican (meaning tax collector) in Luke 18:9-14. Here it is in the KJV, chopped up into separate verses (which is, of course, not the way it was originally written), with my emphasis:

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
I believe the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee teaches two important and valuable things.

#1. We are nothing, and Christ is everything.
Paul says if any man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
I believe that. It is only by our connection to God do we have any kind of worth. Without the Lord we are nothing and we can do nothing of any good. So any good we do is by the LORD, and not ourselves.

#2. We must realize that we must first be saved by God's grace, and that everyone needs this grace to be saved and or to even do the work of the LORD. For the grace of God was what made him capable of laboring more than the brethren (1 Corinthians 15:10). But before we can do anything for the LORD by his power, we need to be saved by His grace (Which is a process of salvation without works). We cannot boast in ourselves when God saves us when we believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and we cannot boast in ourselves when Jesus forgives us of our sins when we sought forgiveness with Him. It was all the LORD and His grace.

So I really do not see a connection to your bringing up this parable and the footnotes in the NKJV and or other Modern Bibles as leading a person to question God's Word. That's what these footnotes do. They sometimes will say these words are not found in these particular manuscripts or the NU (Nestle and Aland), etcetera. So these footnotes sow seeds of doubt of the trustworthiness of God's Word (Unless of course one does not believe they have God's Word).


As I wrote earlier, I have read many of your posts and have been edified by them. Not this time though> I just assume that you're having a bad day.
Well, I was not writing what I did because I was having a bad day. By no means.
It's simply what I always have believed.
I discuss the KJB issue as God leads me.
Again, don't hold my belief in the King James Bible being perfect against me.
I believe we can still be Christian friends and agree to disagree in love and respect on this topic.
I don't see it as a dividing issue.

Anyways, may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and your family greatly.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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To all:

My goal is to believe the Bible for all my Christian beliefs. My approach to what Bible to believe in should also be founded upon God's Word. Do we see God preserving His perfect words in copies in Scripture? Yes, we do. Do we see the prophets and apostles talking about how they need to look to some more ancient language of what God said and they are trying to piece together someday what may be His perfect words? No. That's man's thinking and not the Bible. Therein lies the difference of why I believe in a perfect Bible. There can only be one Bible. If you say you are for the original languages, which sets of manuscripts in the original languages can you hold in your hands and declare them as being perfect? Not all manuscripts in the original languages say the same thing. If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to become the authority on what God said and what God did not say. Therein lies the problem again. I don't have that kind of authority. Only God does. I just trust God preserved His words like He said He would in Psalms 12:6-7. I just trust EVERY word of God is pure (Proverbs 30:5). Jesus said Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 24:35). I believe Jesus that His words have not passed away over the sands of time. I believe Jesus' words are with us today perfectly. All of them? Maybe not, but the words that were revealed in Scripture have not passed away, because the Scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35).
 

Jim B

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To all:

My goal is to believe the Bible for all my Christian beliefs. My approach to what Bible to believe in should also be founded upon God's Word. Do we see God preserving His perfect words in copies in Scripture? Yes, we do. Do we see the prophets and apostles talking about how they need to look to some more ancient language of what God said and they are trying to piece together someday what may be His perfect words? No. That's man's thinking and not the Bible. Therein lies the difference of why I believe in a perfect Bible. There can only be one Bible. If you say you are for the original languages, which sets of manuscripts in the original languages can you hold in your hands and declare them as being perfect? Not all manuscripts in the original languages say the same thing. If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to become the authority on what God said and what God did not say. Therein lies the problem again. I don't have that kind of authority. Only God does. I just trust God preserved His words like He said He would in Psalms 12:6-7. I just trust EVERY word of God is pure (Proverbs 30:5). Jesus said Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 24:35). I believe Jesus that His words have not passed away over the sands of time. I believe Jesus' words are with us today perfectly. All of them? Maybe not, but the words that were revealed in Scripture have not passed away, because the Scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35).
You wrote "If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to become the authority on what God said and what God did not say. Therein lies the problem again" Since we have no perfect Bible (your words) then one must choose which Bible s/he prefers, the one that resonates with them most clearly. Saying "There can only be one Bible" is clearly wrong. And then you follow that thought with "If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to become the authority on what God said and what God did not say." That is clearly misleading. What you should say is ""If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to decide which Bible that you prefer. YOU have to decide which Bible conveys God's words most clearly to you".

We are blessed with a wide variety of English Bibles, each one written for a specific purpose. It is critcally important to read the introduction of each Bible to understand how it was created, what the translators' methodology is, what sources they used, etc. It is a serious error to claim that any translation is more accurate than another based simply on one's opinion and not on the translation's stated purpose.
 

Davy

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To all:

My goal is to believe the Bible for all my Christian beliefs. My approach to what Bible to believe in should also be founded upon God's Word. Do we see God preserving His perfect words in copies in Scripture? Yes, we do. Do we see the prophets and apostles talking about how they need to look to some more ancient language of what God said and they are trying to piece together someday what may be His perfect words? No. That's man's thinking and not the Bible. Therein lies the difference of why I believe in a perfect Bible. There can only be one Bible. If you say you are for the original languages, which sets of manuscripts in the original languages can you hold in your hands and declare them as being perfect?
But that's where you show you are confused about the authority and existence of God's written Word. God promised His Word would be kept throughout all generations. So how has that history been shown? Simple, by the use of Scripture via proof of the early Church father's quotes of Scripture, and the existence of the Traditional texts, both for the Hebrew/Aramaic for the Old Testament, and the Majority texts for the New Testament. For 1,800 years Christianity has relied upon just those manuscript texts.

But then in the 1850s, a couple of pen jockeys suddenly appear and claim there's been 'older and better' Bible manuscripts found that should REPLACE what existed for 1,800 years prior???

And not only that, other groups supposed modern Bible scholars present themselves as authorities and make claims for the need of CONTINUAL REVISIONS of the Greek text, like the Nestle-Aland on it's 28th REVISION today!

No, the later 'modern' Bible versions are not based on God's authority, they are based on corrupt men's theories and those hidden in questionable circles that attempt to destroy God's Word.
 

Bible Highlighter

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But that's where you show you are confused about the authority and existence of God's written Word. God promised His Word would be kept throughout all generations. So how has that history been shown? Simple, by the use of Scripture via proof of the early Church father's quotes of Scripture, and the existence of the Traditional texts, both for the Hebrew/Aramaic for the Old Testament, and the Majority texts for the New Testament. For 1,800 years Christianity has relied upon just those manuscript texts.

But then in the 1850s, a couple of pen jockeys suddenly appear and claim there's been 'older and better' Bible manuscripts found that should REPLACE what existed for 1,800 years prior???

And not only that, other groups supposed modern Bible scholars present themselves as authorities and make claims for the need of CONTINUAL REVISIONS of the Greek text, like the Nestle-Aland on it's 28th REVISION today!

No, the later 'modern' Bible versions are not based on God's authority, they are based on corrupt men's theories and those hidden in questionable circles that attempt to destroy God's Word.
Look. There is no reason to fight me here, my friend. I also believe the King James Bible is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God.
I also believe in history that defends the King James Bible, but my first position is the Bible to support that idea and not history alone (without the Bible). History is written by men and while I do give it credence if it aligns with the faith, it is not my sole authority alone. The Bible is my primary authority, and therefore I can defend my position biblically or by using the Bible.

I am not disagreeing with you on history involving the KJB and Modern bibles. I agree with you. But from my perspective, the Bible comes first and takes supremacy before anything else. I have come up with 101 reasons for the King James Bible and this includes historical points along with biblical ones. I am hoping by God’s grace I can share my notes in a more clarified way here on the forums in the upcoming future to give glory to Jesus Christ and His Holy Word.

For me: The King James Bible is the Bible or His perfect Word for men today.

Anyways, may God bless you and may your time in the LORD today be great.
 

Jim B

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But that's where you show you are confused about the authority and existence of God's written Word. God promised His Word would be kept throughout all generations. So how has that history been shown? Simple, by the use of Scripture via proof of the early Church father's quotes of Scripture, and the existence of the Traditional texts, both for the Hebrew/Aramaic for the Old Testament, and the Majority texts for the New Testament. For 1,800 years Christianity has relied upon just those manuscript texts.

But then in the 1850s, a couple of pen jockeys suddenly appear and claim there's been 'older and better' Bible manuscripts found that should REPLACE what existed for 1,800 years prior???

And not only that, other groups supposed modern Bible scholars present themselves as authorities and make claims for the need of CONTINUAL REVISIONS of the Greek text, like the Nestle-Aland on it's 28th REVISION today!

No, the later 'modern' Bible versions are not based on God's authority, they are based on corrupt men's theories and those hidden in questionable circles that attempt to destroy God's Word.
Since you are so opinionated and so wrong, I am putting you on ignore status again.
 

Bible Highlighter

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You wrote "If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to become the authority on what God said and what God did not say. Therein lies the problem again" Since we have no perfect Bible (your words) then one must choose which Bible s/he prefers, the one that resonates with them most clearly. Saying "There can only be one Bible" is clearly wrong. And then you follow that thought with "If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to become the authority on what God said and what God did not say." That is clearly misleading. What you should say is ""If we have no perfect Bible, then YOU have to decide which Bible that you prefer. YOU have to decide which Bible conveys God's words most clearly to you".
God is not the author of confusion. He is not going to give us multiple translations whereby we can have a pick and choose your own adventure of which meaning you want to go on for certain verses or passages. Either God preserved His words perfectly as He said or He didn’t. It comes down to faith on this issue. Again, we are fallible and God is not. His words should guide us to what to believe and do as a part of the faith and not the other way around. If we seek out a translation that favors OUR thinking it is wrong if that translation is false and inaccurate. Everything God does is perfect. God made the universe and He spoke it into existence in six days. Jesus holds all things together by the WORD of His power. If the Earth was tilted a little one way too much we would all die. Everything on this planet has it’s pinpoint precision perfection so as to support life on this planet by God. Yet, you want me to believe that this same GOD who does everything perfectly involving the creation cannot preserve His own Holy words as He said He would (Psalms 12:6-7). Sorry, I believe God’s Word. If I am wrong for believing the King James Bible is perfect, then I will find that out when I meet the LORD Jesus. But where else shall I go? There is no other Bible like the King James Bible that stands out in being pure compared to other translations. It’s history is unique and special (Compared to Modern Bibles). Blood was shed leading up to the KJB. How many souls were sacrificed in the leading up to the Modern Translations? None that I am aware of.

We are blessed with a wide variety of English Bibles, each one written for a specific purpose.
To a degree I agree with you that GOD had a plan involving the existence of Modern Translations (of which can be a blessing).
I see Modern Bibles can be used for good.
A person can be saved with hearing the gospel message from a Modern Bible.
Clarity on the archaic language in the KJB can be experienced because of what a Modern Bible says.
So no doubt God blesses us with their existence. But they also cannot be our final Word of authority because they also change doctrine, too. So we have to be careful. But I disagree with my KJB Only brethren who say that we should not use Modern bibles. In my view, they can at times be extremely helpful in updating what the KJB says.

God was able to use both Satan and the Jews (Who were against Him) to orchestrate the greatest event in human history (i.e. the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the sins of the whole world). So I believe God can use Modern bibles in this similar way. They may not be perfect, but God can use them for His glory for sure. In fact, I think Modern Bibles are a must to help us understand the King James Bible because we don’t speak 1600’s English today. Hence, why I am “Core KJB” and not “KJV Only.”


It is critcally important to read the introduction of each Bible to understand how it was created, what the translators' methodology is, what sources they used, etc. It is a serious error to claim that any translation is more accurate than another based simply on one's opinion and not on the translation's stated purpose.
The NKJV preface makes their intentions very clear. They say you can add or delete words in the Bible as you feel. This is editing what God said, and that is wrong. The example is looking at the fruit. Many translations keep changing their own words every few years with a new edition to retain the copyright (i.e. MONEY). So it’s obvious they are not translating for solely noble purposes of trying to get the Word of God out there without raking in the ole green. Scripture says buy the milk without price. God’s Word should be free (Unless of course it is to cover the printing costs or something so as to simply get the Word out there).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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The problem I also see in Textual Criticism is that you can end up spending your whole life trying to figure out what God really said looking to this translation or looking to this manuscript in the original languages comparing it to others when God wants us to get busy with believing His Word and doing what He says by faith.

Textual Criticism is a distraction from the faith we should be living out.
Look at Abraham, and the other great heroes of faith. They were told by God certain things and they just believed God.
They did not try and seek to live out their life trying to figure out what God really said. They simply believed and or obeyed God.
That is the same example of the life we should be living. Faith that works by love.
 

Jim B

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God is not the author of confusion. He is not going to give us multiple translations whereby we can have a pick and choose your own adventure of which meaning you want to go on for certain verses or passages. Either God preserved His words perfectly as He said or He didn’t. It comes down to faith on this issue. Again, we are fallible and God is not. His words should guide us to what to believe and do as a part of the faith and not the other way around. If we seek out a translation that favors OUR thinking it is wrong if that translation is false and inaccurate. Everything God does is perfect. God made the universe and He spoke it into existence in six days. Jesus holds all things together by the WORD of His power. If the Earth was tilted a little one way too much we would all die. Everything on this planet has it’s pinpoint precision perfection so as to support life on this planet by God. Yet, you want me to believe that this same GOD who does everything perfectly involving the creation cannot preserve His own Holy words as He said He would (Psalms 12:6-7). Sorry, I believe God’s Word. If I am wrong for believing the King James Bible is perfect, then I will find that out when I meet the LORD Jesus. But where else shall I go? There is no other Bible like the King James Bible that stands out in being pure compared to other translations. It’s history is unique and special (Compared to Modern Bibles). Blood was shed leading up to the KJB. How many souls were sacrificed in the leading up to the Modern Translations? None that I am aware of.


To a degree I agree with you that GOD had a plan involving the existence of Modern Translations (of which can be a blessing).
I see Modern Bibles can be used for good.
A person can be saved with hearing the gospel message from a Modern Bible.
Clarity on the archaic language in the KJB can be experienced because of what a Modern Bible says.
So no doubt God blesses us with their existence. But they also cannot be our final Word of authority because they also change doctrine, too. So we have to be careful. But I disagree with my KJB Only brethren who say that we should not use Modern bibles. In my view, they can at times be extremely helpful in updating what the KJB says.

God was able to use both Satan and the Jews (Who were against Him) to orchestrate the greatest event in human history (i.e. the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the sins of the whole world). So I believe God can use Modern bibles in this similar way. They may not be perfect, but God can use them for His glory for sure. In fact, I think Modern Bibles are a must to help us understand the King James Bible because we don’t speak 1600’s English today. Hence, why I am “Core KJB” and not “KJV Only.”



The NKJV preface makes their intentions very clear. They say you can add or delete words in the Bible as you feel. This is editing what God said, and that is wrong. The example is looking at the fruit. Many translations keep changing their own words every few years with a new edition to retain the copyright (i.e. MONEY). So it’s obvious they are not translating for solely noble purposes of trying to get the Word of God out there without raking in the ole green. Scripture says buy the milk without price. God’s Word should be free (Unless of course it is to cover the printing costs or something so as to simply get the Word out there).
I will discuss further (if I'm so inclined) when you explain why the NT writers quoted from the Septuagint, which differs from the Hebrew OT. In your words, "This is editing what God said, and that is wrong."
 

Bible Highlighter

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I will discuss further (if I'm so inclined) when you explain why the NT writers quoted from the Septuagint, which differs from the Hebrew OT. In your words, "This is editing what God said, and that is wrong."
There is no such thing as a Septuagint (or LXX). It is completely fabricated.


If we are to believe Josephus, he was the one who set out to create a Greek translation of the Torah. Josephus was born four years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I will discuss further (if I'm so inclined) when you explain why the NT writers quoted from the Septuagint, which differs from the Hebrew OT. In your words, "This is editing what God said, and that is wrong."
 

Jim B

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There is no such thing as a Septuagint (or LXX). It is completely fabricated.


If we are to believe Josephus, he was the one who set out to create a Greek translation of the Torah. Josephus was born four years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
What is the meaning of the Septuagint?


ˈsep-tə-wə-ˌjint. : a Greek version of the Jewish Scriptures redacted in the third and second centuries b.c. by Jewish scholars and adopted by Greek-speaking Christians.

sep-tə-wə-ˌjint. : a Greek version of the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament), including the Apocrypha, made for Greek-speaking Jews in Egypt in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC and adopted by the early Christian Churches.

Jesus would have been familiar with a popular Greek translation of Hebrew Scripture commonly known as the Septuagint, which had already been around for a long time, as well as other Greek and even some Aramaic translations.

How often did Jesus quote the Septuagint? In about 90 instances, the Septuagint is quoted literally. In around 80 further instances, the quote is altered in some way. For example, at Matthew 21:42 Jesus says "Did ye never read in the scriptures that the stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner?", a reference to Psalm 118:22

The Septuagint, as the translation of the Hebrew Bible, was a landmark of antiquity. It is the first translation in the history of the Bible. It also, for all its oddities of language and translation style, became the central literary work of Hellenistic Judaism and early Christianity.

Matthew 1.23: “Behold, the virgin [parthenos] shall conceive.” Matthew cites the Septuagint (not the Hebrew) word for word, which suggests that the language of the virgin birth of Jesus is derived, in part, from the Septuagint.

The Greek Orthodox Church promotes the Septuagint, switching from the Codex Alexandrinus to the Vaticanus, without explicitly canonizing a particular manuscript tradition.

Jerome used the Septuagint to begin his translation of the Vulgate Old Testament in 382 CE.

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The Septuagint (/ˈsɛptjuədʒɪnt/),[1] (sometimes referred to as the Greek Old Testament or The Translation of the Seventy, often abbreviated as LXX)[2] is the earliest extant Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible from the original Hebrew.[3][4] The full title (Ancient Greek: Ἡ μετάφρασις τῶν Ἑβδομήκοντα, romanized: The Translation of the Seventy) derives from the story recorded in the Letter of Aristeas to Philocrates that "the laws of the Jews" were translated into the Greek language at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–247 BCE) by seventy-two Jewish translators—six from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel.[5][6][7]

Biblical scholars agree that the first five books of the Hebrew Bible were translated from Biblical Hebrew into Koine Greek by Jews living in the Ptolemaic Kingdom, probably in the early or middle part of the third century BCE.[8] The remaining books were presumably translated in the 2nd century BCE.[4][9][10] Some targumim translating or paraphrasing the Bible into Aramaic were also made during the Second Temple period.

source: wikipedia

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The Septuagint is quite possibly the most important translation of the Bible. It is the oldest translation of the OT into another language. It was considered by Philo and Josephus to be on an equal footing with the Hebrew Bible. It was preferred to the Hebrew by the Early Christian Church. And it sheds much-needed light on the development of the New Testament.

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And there are far more references than the above.

Therefore, your statement that "There is no such thing as a Septuagint (or LXX). It is completely fabricated" is totally wrong.

Using any reference from YouTube is silly. How about the fact that Bigfoot has been seen several times?
 
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Jim B

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Bible Highlighter, you wrote: I also believe the King James Bible is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God.

That explains to a great degree why no meaningful discussion with you is possible regarding the Septuagint, modern translations, etc. If the King James Bible is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God, why didn't Jesus use it?
 

Jim B

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The problem I also see in Textual Criticism is that you can end up spending your whole life trying to figure out what God really said looking to this translation or looking to this manuscript in the original languages comparing it to others when God wants us to get busy with believing His Word and doing what He says by faith.

Textual Criticism is a distraction from the faith we should be living out.
Look at Abraham, and the other great heroes of faith. They were told by God certain things and they just believed God.
They did not try and seek to live out their life trying to figure out what God really said. They simply believed and or obeyed God.
That is the same example of the life we should be living. Faith that works by love.
The problem you see in Textual Criticism is that "you can end up spending your whole life trying to figure out what God really said looking to this translation or looking to this manuscript in the original languages comparing it to others" That is exactly what the translators of your "perfect" King James Bible did!!!

They used the manuscripts that were available to them as well as the translations that already existed to create the translation that the secular king wanted. Why? To justify his rule over his subjects and his idea of what Protestantism should be.

I am so thankful that the Pilgrims (among others) fled from the tyrannical king with their Geneva Bibles under their arms to maintain their faith in God, not James.
 

Bible Highlighter

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@Jim B

It seems your are extremely antagonist towards King James, the King James Bible and or the KJB Only position. Who taught you to be that aggressive against such things? Was an article? Was it a scholar? Was it a church? Was it a book? Was it something else?

In either case, I think it is best in this case that I not to try and convince you directly about the KJB being the Word of God for today.
But I will seek to present what I believe is the truth on this topic to others instead. But I am not here to convince you. That’s not my job. Only the Lord can show you the truth on this topic if it is something you may be open to hearing someday by His leading.

Peace and blessings be unto you in the LORD.