Omicron variant

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Naomanos

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Murder is intentionally causing the death of someone.

All of those who knowingly placed bans on treatments that were known, and have been repeatedly since proven, to cure these ailments;

as well as all of those who wrote the protocols for handling Covid cases in hospitals misusing respirators, etc.;

as well as all of those who engineered these viruses, are ALL not only MURDERERS, but MASS MURDERERS.

No bones about it.

They are not mass murderers. You are free to think that they are, but it doesn't make it true.

Many in my family have gone for boosters, I will go for my booster and my youngest children get their second dose if the vaccine soon.

No adverse effects and no one has caught Covid.
 

GaryAnderson

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I told you. I'm not seeking middle ground. I wasn't seeking middle ground when I said it. My provocative speech was intended to shock and alarm and hopefully prepare folks for the coming truth of the matter.

Nonetheless, let's talk about it for a minute.

The strategy of seeking middle ground is employed when two people, at odds with one another, attempt to understand the position of their opponent by suspending their own position long enough to hear and consider what their opponent is actually saying. One common technique among those seeking middle ground is for both party to agree on a set of facts or sources of facts on which to make an appeal to reason. Another common technique is for each party to ask leading questions and pursue a line of thinking to its ultimate conclusion.

Do you think anyone in this thread has done this so far?

Posts filled with questions is clear evidence of two people seeking middle ground, because the strategy isn't to prove your case, but to understand your opponent's case. I attempted to seek middle ground with someone in this thread (I think it was this thread) and I was accused of being an interrogator.

People take offence at someone who appears to be asking "too many questions" but that is precisely what seeking middle ground looks like. I often wonder if those who become offended at being questioned are insecure with their position and perhaps detest the thought that they were duped or made a mistake.

This thread and others like it are popular because people like to cheer for their favorite team. Other people come here in an attempt to seek information, hoping that the thread will eventually prove something. For the most part, threads like this are unproductive for several reasons, the bulk of which is centered on "trusted sources" and the interpretation of experience. Both Eternally Grateful and you have voiced caution and incredulity concerning information gathered from sources other than "official" sources, such as social media and the internet. Myself and others have voiced incredulity and caution concerning information coming from official sources.

I didn't always mistrust government sources. But over the years I have found corruption in many of the departments, which purport to inform the public. That is, governmental agencies responsible to inform the public suffer under major conflicts of interest, whereby governmental agencies promote the perspective of donors, rather than an objective, factual, perspective. For instance, when I was in grade school, we were taught the Food Pyramid, which I found out later, purposely favored the grain farmer lobby. In fact, as it turns out, the pyramid is upside down.

I could go on, but the point is this. Unless folks in this thread can agree on a set of trusted sources, then middle ground isn't possible.

Well, this is a very good post and I agree with most of your thoughts here. Also if you have to be direct with me in order to get to more middle ground , then go right ahead. I don’t mind that, since I also use that type of approach with reaching some truth. I’m very direct too but I can also exit quickly when the other party becomes too extremist in their reasoning.
The post that you made is an excellent argument on popularity and cheerleading from either side and how we forget to establish some basic facts.
As I mentioned earlier, I don’t like Fauci one bit and he’s too politically involved at this point where he doesn’t hold much credibility.
But I can’t take Alex Jones seriously either. I also share your distrust of Government or any private company whose MO is basically : Profit.
Despite this, I also realize that governments or private companies are not in the business of killing millions of people.
I also acknowledge that this was a lab made virus in Wuhan China, and the world doesn’t have the guts to hold China accountable because they make our stuff and PROFIT is way more important than ruining the Chinese relationship.
 
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Cristo Rei

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They are not mass murderers. You are free to think that they are, but it doesn't make it true.

Many in my family have gone for boosters, I will go for my booster and my youngest children get their second dose if the vaccine soon.

No adverse effects and no one has caught Covid.

Your lucky. I know a hand full of people that have have adverse reactions from the experimental injections...
One had a rash...
One was hospitalized
One has something wrong with his blood
One has heart inflammation and is only 24yo... Another has cancer now...

In contrast I know no one that has been harmed by covid
 

Cristo Rei

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Murder is intentionally causing the death of someone.

All of those who knowingly placed bans on treatments that were known, and have been repeatedly since proven, to cure these ailments;

as well as all of those who wrote the protocols for handling Covid cases in hospitals misusing respirators, etc.;

as well as all of those who engineered these viruses, are ALL not only MURDERERS, but MASS MURDERERS.

No bones about it.

True...
It is murder in the 1st degree, premeditated.
They knew it was going to cause deaths
They promoted it as safe
It caused deaths
That's murder one

Even now

It's causing deaths, documented
They're still pushing it as safe
Murder one. En masse. Genocide
 

Taken

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I’m surprised no topics on this event which is all over the news. The world is on high alert over the new covid variant called Omicron. It has its origin from South Africa but it’s already in Europe and probably in USA.
What do you guys think?
Is this something invented by the Democrats or it is for real?

Inanutshell... a Created “crisis”, same as the long list of other “invisible” Created “crisis’” by a hand full of men, sitting in world power seats, doing nothing phenomenal, but repeating the same old, same old...
Fear mongering, effecting their Control, their oppression, Individuals wealth exchange to their pockets...and goal reaching to downsize world population.

The “hand full of men”....have no one “title”...Communist, Marxists, Democrat, Liberals, Democracy pushers, Bankers, Christian, Catholic, Protestant, Believers, ..... they have ONE common Goal, what they call themselves, (is irrelevant)....what they ADVOCATE, DICTATE, FORCE...reveals
THEIR “Standing of Intended Agreed Goal”...THEY RULE, YOU SUBMIT. Period.

And be assured...their mouth will say, FOR YOUR BENEFIT....but their GOAL is expressly FOR THEIR BENEFIT!
 
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CadyandZoe

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Well, this is a very good post and I agree with most of your thoughts here. Also if you have to be direct with me in order to get to more middle ground , then go right ahead. I don’t mind that, since I also use that type of approach with reaching some truth. I’m very direct too but I can also exit quickly when the other party becomes too extremist in their reasoning.
The post that you made is an excellent argument on popularity and cheerleading from either side and how we forget to establish some basic facts.
As I mentioned earlier, I don’t like Fauci one bit and he’s too politically involved at this point where he doesn’t hold much credibility.
But I can’t take Alex Jones seriously either. I also share your distrust of Government or any private company whose MO is basically : Profit.
Despite this, I also realize that governments or private companies are not in the business of killing millions of people.
I also acknowledge that this was a lab made virus in Wuhan China, and the world doesn’t have the guts to hold China accountable because they make our stuff and PROFIT is way more important than ruining the Chinese relationship.
When the internet first started, I participated in message boards where I might engage in Christian apologetics. I bought several books including "The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics" by Norman Geisler, and "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, and others. (I also had a Doctor of Philosophy, who was also a Christian believer, help me.) In order to discuss theology and atheism with an unbeliever one needs to find middle ground. Most of our arguments began with first principles, on which almost all people can agree. For instance, most reasonable people, theist or atheist will affirm the law of non-contradiction.*

After a couple of years, I discovered a strange phenomenon that I couldn't explain at first. The middle ground was shrinking very rapidly. Long story short, as postmodernism began to take root and grow among the population, apologists like me were having a hard time finding folks that believed in first principles. For centuries, most philosophers would agree on this one self-evident fact: though we argue over what is true, we all agree that a universal, common truth, exists for us all to find. We may not agree about what is true, but we know that truth exists.

Much of what I learned about the course set by those who were leading society and culture came through dialogue with college students. What were they learning from their teachers and professors? The up and coming fad in philosophical thought was postmodernism, which affected all areas of life including architecture, fine arts, dramatic arts, college campuses, until eventually it was common thinking among the regular populous. Postmodernism, by contrast to previous areas of human thought, not only doubted whether truth could be found; it question whether universal truth actually existed. The core principle of postmodernism is the belief that "truth" is simply the consensus opinion.

When I finally realized what was happening, I began to hear the following verses ringing in my ears. "[the man of lawless is coming] in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 College-aged kids were not receiving a love of the truth. And the atheists with which I engaged would not accept the truth in order to be saved.

So I wondered if God was finally sending a deluding influence now. I kept on the look out for signs that this was happening. I wondered who this deluding influence might be and how a lack of love for the truth might manifest itself. During that time I read a lot of books and a couple of books stand out now in my thinking. "The technological society" By Jacques Ellul, and "Propaganda: the formation of men's attitudes." also by Jacques Ellul. These two books, among others, became the framework of my new perspective on the state of truth-telling in the United States and perhaps the world.

Without giving you a complete argument at this time, I identified the sources of the "deluding influence" were mainly academia, Hollywood, and popular culture. And there are two competing, reality shaping forces in play: the old guard, consisting of the typical political structures, and the "new" elites consisting of the technocrats, who want to eliminate government altogether in favor of a technical elite consisting of so-called "scientists" who think that technology and especially "technique" should be the tools of the dominant class. (China is attempting this sort of rule via mass surveillance and social credit scores.) The more technocratic, the less human; and the highest value of a technocrat is efficiency.

Among Jesus-followers, the highest values are truth, goodness, and above all, love. Among Jesus-followers, the unit of highest value is the individual person. Among the technocrats, the unit of highest value is society, especially the technological class. (I took note of the emphasis on STEM at the expense of the humanities in colleges and universities.) Over time "the Good" has changed. Whereas, in ages past, "the good" was human fulfillment and thriving; today, the good is "the most efficient process in any given situation."

With regard to the Corona Virus, I have been following this story since it first started, and even before it was generally known.** And eventually we discovered that the mind-virus I described above, i.e. "efficiency" is the highest value, has infected the nation's hospital system. Whereas, in times past, the hospital would do everything in it's power, even lose lots of money, to save a dying patient. Today, unfortunately, the hospitals have changed their position on the treatment of those who fall outside the standard deviation. In other words, to put it bluntly, marginal patients are being allowed to die, rather than treating them. This is a nightmare situation. No more experimental treatments, no more experimental drugs, no more fighting for the patient until the last breath. Hospitals are now triage centers in which each patient is evaluated against the standard deviation, and those within the standard deviation are treated first and more effort is used to save them.

Sorry about the length of this post. Thanks for allowing me to get this off my chest this morning.

______________
*contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time

**Before it was generally known as "Corona" virus, we were hearing anecdotal reports from around the country, especially the coastal states about an unusually strong flu that continued to hang on for a couple of weeks and unusually with aggressive symptoms. We suspect that folks were actually catching Corona Virus without knowing it. This led to speculation that some people were naturally immune to the virus, but I think, rather, that these folks were infected with Corona and gained an immunity.
 
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JohnPaul

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So when the Nazis did exactly the same thing, why were they hung? Why was a Nuremberg Code created? Or do you know nothing about it?
The Nuremberg Code (German: Nürnberger Kodex) is a set of research ethics principles for human experimentation created by the U.S. v Brandt court as one result of the Nuremberg trials at the end of the Second World War. In a review written on the 50th anniversary of the Brandt verdict, Katz writes that "a careful reading of the judgment suggests that [the authors] wrote the Code for the practice of human experimentation whenever it is being conducted."[1]

The Ten Points of the Nuremberg Code:
  1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.[13]
  2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
  3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results will justify the performance of the experiment.
  4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury.
  5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects.
  6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.
  7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability, or death.
  8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment.
  9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.
  10. During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.
 

Naomanos

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So when the Nazis did exactly the same thing, why were they hung? Why was a Nuremberg Code created? Or do you know nothing about it?

False equivalency.

Look, I don't agree with any of this nonsense and whatever else you guys seem to falsely believe.

I have said time and time again, if you don't want to be vaccinated, don't get vaccinated, your choice. You made the decision that the cons outweigh the pros. For others the opposite is true.
 
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Naomanos

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Your lucky. I know a hand full of people that have have adverse reactions from the experimental injections...
One had a rash...
One was hospitalized
One has something wrong with his blood
One has heart inflammation and is only 24yo... Another has cancer now...

In contrast I know no one that has been harmed by covid

I'm sorry to hear that!

Besides my family, I know no one who has been injured or has had an adverse reaction to the vaccine.
 
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Taken

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I hear you @amigo de christo , the problem is that this will have some real life implications such as losing your job etc, ....

THAT is the “PATSY” so to speak...
Governments, Power sitters...WHO DICTATE...always have a “patsy” to deflect the blame from them to “something” else.

You can get the “government”....SUGGESTED VAX...or not.
While in the mean-time...the government is bribing and dictating for the Employers to ... BE ENFORCERS ... and ... then the government becomes “NOT ACCOUNTABLE”... for when a employer keeps a person from employment.
An employer is brow beat with threats, cowers to govt threats, and the employee gets the brunt of the scam.
See how the SCAM works?
The SCAM has been in effect for eons, (private employers tasked, and rewarded for being pseudo Law enforcers, and threatened and punished for Not agreeing to be Law enforcers....”OF” Constitutional and Unconstitutional Laws).
NO lawful Judgements, or Orders...just arbitrary we said, you do.

if you don’t get vaccinated.

That before our eyes, IS being revealed...a type of force, with ploys of artful manipulation...take the jab or they will imprison, confiscate, keep you from providing for yourself....which conjures up fear of family separation, loss of possessions, inability to house, feed, get continuing medical attention for existing issues....so WHAT TO DO...
Take the jab...FOR FEAR OF WHAT you believe...WILL HAPPEN if you do not?

Or...WILL THEY Actually Physically FORCE YOU, to take the JAB?
I have not YET, seen or heard of PHYSICAL FORCE.
I do believe, there may be “exceptions” out of the public eye, where Forcing has been effected...ie the Insane, Institutionalized, etc.

But for the Public at Large...literal hold down FORCE? Maybe coming, IDK.
Maybe starving, is sufficient. IDK.

So I will take things one day at a time and keep praying.

Men are “wicked”. Power sitting men who are “wicked”, ARE dangerous threats, because they have powerful means TO literally FORCE. Will they?
Maybe. Maybe will just continue their “patsy” scam. Get what they want, while dodging the blame.

God gave us Freewill, Jesus gave us an offering, to be saved and quickened forever, regardless of what wicked men do. So agree with you there...Keep focused on comfort in Christ Jesus. If you feel Forced to take the Jab, and it causes you ill effects...The Lord God already has a solution for our body’s renewal.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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False equivalency.

Look, I don't agree with any of this nonsense and whatever else you guys seem to falsely believe.

I have said time and time again, if you don't want to be vaccinated, don't get vaccinated, your choice. You made the decision that the cons outweigh the pros. For others the opposite is true.

The Point is...those who do not want to take the JAB, are being threatened, with inability to continue to provide for their families.
The Point being...the CHOICE to take the JAB or NOT, is being circumvented, by threats, and actual inabilities to provide for their families, for CHOOSING to not take the Jab.
It’s the tiger by the tail syndrome...WHICH effectively is an indirect force.

So while it may not mean anything to YOU, if another chooses to not take the JAB....YOU are not the one causing a NEGATIVE effect on a person who refuses the JAB....but the NEGATIVE EFFECT in refusing the JAB, IS a huge, REAL issue.

That was the POINT of a comparison to the round up and extermination of the Jews...their option was go along and hope to live...or be exterminated.
With the JAB, the option is go along and hope to live...or be prevented from having Necessities TO live.
Extermination is Extermination...by Gas, bullet or No access for necessary life sustaining provisions.
 
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Naomanos

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The Point is...those who do not want to take the JAB, are being threatened, with inability to continue to provide for their families.
The Point being...the CHOICE to take the JAB or NOT, is being circumvented, by threats, and actual inabilities to provide for their families, for CHOOSING to not take the Jab.
It’s the tiger by the tail syndrome...WHICH effectively is an indirect force.

So while it may not mean anything to YOU, if another chooses to not take the JAB....YOU are not the one causing a NEGATIVE effect on a person who refuses the JAB....but the NEGATIVE EFFECT in refusing the JAB, IS a huge, REAL issue.

That was the POINT of a comparison to the round up and extermination of the Jews...their option was go along and hope to live...or be exterminated.
With the JAB, the option is go along and hope to live...or be prevented from having Necessities TO live.
Extermination is Extermination...by Gas, bullet or No access for necessary life sustaining provisions.

I will agree to disagree. I grow weary of arguing about this.
 
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Cristo Rei

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The Nuremberg Code (German: Nürnberger Kodex) is a set of research ethics principles for human experimentation created by the U.S. v Brandt court as one result of the Nuremberg trials at the end of the Second World War. In a review written on the 50th anniversary of the Brandt verdict, Katz writes that "a careful reading of the judgment suggests that [the authors] wrote the Code for the practice of human experimentation whenever it is being conducted."[1]

The Ten Points of the Nuremberg Code:
  1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.[13]
  2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
  3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results will justify the performance of the experiment.
  4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury.
  5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects.
  6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.
  7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability, or death.
  8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment.
  9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.
  10. During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.

All ten codes are in violation...
This is supposed to be punishable by death but where is the court.. Where is Nuremberg 2.0...
 

Taken

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I will agree to disagree. I grow weary of arguing about this.

Okie dokie with me...

So, related topic, but disagreement irrelevant...
Did you choose to take the Jab?
If so, by simple personal choice, or secured your job?
 

Cristo Rei

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Remember when conflict of interests was a big deal... People prefer not to see it now...
 

Naomanos

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Okie dokie with me...

So, related topic, but disagreement irrelevant...
Did you choose to take the Jab?
If so, by simple personal choice, or secured your job?

You will never hear me call it the jab.

Yes, I and my whole family chose to be vaccinated and to vaccinate our children.
 
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Naomanos

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Okie dokie with me...

So, related topic, but disagreement irrelevant...
Did you choose to take the Jab?
If so, by simple personal choice, or secured your job?

We chose to be vaccinated as we have immunocompromised family members, family that has COPD and I have moderate to severe asthma.

Our choice was simple once we outweighed the pros and the cons. For us, the pros far outweighed the cons.
 
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Enoch111

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All ten codes are in violation...
This is supposed to be punishable by death but where is the court.. Where is Nuremberg 2.0...
Attorney Reiner Fuellmich on Nuremberg 2.0: Justice will Not Come Through the Courts but by the People Rising Up
Attorney Reiner Fuellmich on Nuremberg 2.0: Justice will Not Come Through the Courts but by the People Rising Up

What is he saying?

1. There is no court in the world that wants to see the Nuremberg Code applied to all the world leaders and their public health officials. That would mean mass executions, and the courts have already been corrupted.

2. He is calling for a revolution, but since all military and police powers are in the hands of the criminals at the top in all nations, that will be easily squelched.

3. So that leaves it to the veterans who are outside the military to impose justice, since the militaries have also been corrupted. Will it happen? It is looking less and less as a possibility, since action should have already been taken.