ON THE FENCE ABOUT REPENTANCE?

[Truman]

After I realized the truth of John 3:16, it was explained to me that I was a sinner in need of a savior. I broke down, asked Jesus to forgive me and asked Jesus into my life.
It was a long time before I received anymore revelation.
All these years later the seed has grown into a tree of life!
Not like I was told somewhere along the road, but this is my testimony!

 

[Addy]

After I realized the truth of John 3:16, it was explained to me that I was a sinner in need of a savior. I broke down, asked Jesus to forgive me and asked Jesus into my life.
It was a long time before I received anymore revelation.
All these years later the seed has grown into a tree of life!
Not like I was told somewhere along the road, but this is my testimony!

I can't argue with a testimony... Bless you.

 

[Grailhunter]

Koine Greek was the common language of the day like English is the language of business today. I am sure the apostles (especially Paul, Matthew, JOhn and Peter) had at least a working knowledge of Koine Greek.

Agreed, some had a working knowledge. It is still a Pagan language associated with Pagan religions. A language that evolved with no concern or association with Judaism or Christianity. So they were looking for words and meanings in the Greek but sometimes adjusted the meaning and the context of those words, which can be seen in how they used them. I already gave you a simple explanation.

changing ones mind does mean a desire or determination to change ones action. Modern people separate the two too often, but that is not the meaning of changing ones mind. If I change my mind and decide not travel when I wasn't going to, my decision or repentance affects my actions!

This is so very true. But its context has nothing to do with the process of salvation.
We are told in the scriptures what to do if we want Salvation...Step by step process? Are they connected? Aspects of each step...in mind...in the heart...in the physical...and divine aspects.

Do we repent with no interest in Christ or Salvation. A person could think that the philosophy of Christ teachings are smart, but are atheist. What drives us to repent? Why does it say that part of the process is to repent. Does repenting cause us to change? Does our association with Christ cause us to change? Does Baptism change us? Is there a combination effect? What happens in the physical does it have ramifications in the divine? Back to the point if you think repentance is not associated with a desire to change once you know that what you were doing with your life was wrong...then do you have a desire to continue doing wrong?

Absolutely! All of our sins have been "judicially" forgiven in the saved or lost sense.

Disagree. We still have to ask forgiveness for sins committed after we are saved. You can call it asking, you can call it acknowledging our sins, you can call it confessing our sins...But either way there is an "if" we do something. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Of course we do not put someone struggling with besetting sin in a position of responsibility in the body. We do not condemne them either. We "circle the wagons around them" and love on them and edify them to lift them up from that sin hopefully.

Agreed.

 

[Truman]

I can choose to follow Jesus to the cross.
I can also choose to ignore those sent by the evil one to sow discord and confusion among the brethren.

 

[Grailhunter]

I did not explain myself very well... I was trying to define what you were asking... I guess I made it way more difficult than it should have been... What I was trying to say... is that I do FEEL and BELIEVE that certain events (if traumatic ) can and often do... LEAD people ( not cause them... but lead them to ) sinful behaviour/living.... It all boils down to pain and self-loathing. I am not at all justifying sin.... I am fully aware of God's Righteousness... Holiness and Purity...
Many sins of the flesh are appealing to the senses.... such as addictions. I believe ( and it has been my experience ) that those who suffer deep trauma in their lives are more prone to TURNING to SIN to medicate/cover their PAIN. This is why I am so harsh with the judgemental/legalistic Christian who would dare to judge another believer over BEHAVIOUR... as they do not know the ENTIRE story.... and YES... I suppose there are those who would ABUSE His Grace ( if that is such a thing )... but I think that is more the exception than the rule... Those who simply behave badly.... and DON'T care... have issues of pride and arrogance. Anyways... an attempted clarification of my meaning.

I do not desire to overtake this thread... I have said much and so I will leave room for others to comment.

I take it back to basics. We are not Jews and our religious beliefs and morals are not defined by the Mosaic Law. For one thing most people do not know the 613 Mosaic Laws and for that matter the Jews are still debating them. Christianity is not a legalistic religion for many reasons. If you drink it is not a sin. If you drink frequently to relieve the mental and or physical pain it is not a sin. If you take medication for the same, it is not a sin. The alternative to this causes self loathing and guilt when neither is justified. God is not stupid, He knows what you are going through....right? And I already addressed those that would use the affliction to "go hog wild" I am not judging you and do not judge yourself unfairly. Then on the other side of the coin, your concern shows your character and it is good as any.

 

[Truman]

I can't argue with a testimony... Bless you.

Arguing with God is never a good idea.

 

[Addy]

I take it back to basics. We are not Jews and our religious beliefs and morals are not defined by the Mosaic Law. For one thing most people do not know the 613 Mosaic Laws and for that matter the Jews are still debating them. Christianity is not a legalistic religion for many reasons. If you drink it is not a sin. If you drink frequently to relieve the mental and or physical pain it is not a sin. If you take medication for the same, it is not a sin. The alternative to this causes self loathing and guilt when neither is justified. God is not stupid, He knows what you are going through....right? And I already addressed those that would use the affliction to "go hog wild" I am not judging you and do not judge yourself unfairly. Then on the other side of the coin, your concern shows your character and it is good as any.

It has been a refreshing treat to indulge in civilized conversation.

 

[Grailhunter]

It has been a refreshing treat to indulge in civilized conversation.

God is real, we live in the real, and Christianity can be applied to the real. Celebrate the fact that you are saved and be confident in your relationship with God. Just that simple.

 

[Nancy]

Maybe you are being overly judgmental of some of the people that you have met...judging them to be sinning when in all reality they were not sinning. Often Christ has a different idea of what sin is than we do.

For example, one person judged another on these boards saying that because they were being judgmental, they were not being loving and therefore sinned...

However, the Bible says,

Phl 1:9, And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

"Maybe you are being overly judgmental of some of the people that you have met...judging them to be sinning when in all reality they were not sinning. Often Christ has a different idea of what sin is than we do."

No, I am being more judgmental of my self and fear this might just be correct I guess. Because if it is then, there will be oh so many who do not make it into eternity with Christ and, it has thrown a big chasm into my own belief system. Kind of like questioning my own salvation. Nobody even has to leave the house to sin. Just a wrong thought or attitude <--- and THOSE are the sins I'm speaking of with myself. Haven't had His joy in sometime now and wonder where it went. I haven't done anything but seek Him and His ways so, I must see this absence as Him just watching how I will react, if I will reach out to Him. And I do

 

[amadeus]

Nah. It's not a big deal to me. What you wrote didn't make much sense according to what I wrote. I'm old. I don't have the mental energy to go round and round like the younger folks.

"The hoary head [old age, gray-headed] is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness." Prov 16:31

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Agreed, some had a working knowledge. It is still a Pagan language associated with Pagan religions. A language that evolved with no concern or association with Judaism or Christianity. So they were looking for words and meanings in the Greek but sometimes adjusted the meaning and the context of those words, which can be seen in how they used them. I already gave you a simple explanation.

YOur concept is incorrect. It developed as a result of the scatrtering at teh Tower of Babel. there God confused the languages as an act of mercy to keep man from diving into even deeper sin.

Give me an example of your "simple explanation" Language is language. It has no secular or sacredness. It is a means of communicating. Teh Jews used Hebrew well enough to convey pagan thoughts.

also it is written Jesus came in the fullness of times (the opportune moment). Why? Because Rome had developed their road system amking it easier than ever before to travel. and Koine Greek was a universal language to allow the spreading of teh good news easier than ever before.

Paul wrote all his letters in Koine and Luke wrote His two letters in greek. James, Matthew and Peter maybe in Hebrew but the rest were all written in Greek. Greek isfar more expressive than Hebrew. I studied both in Bible College.

Do we repent with no interest in Christ or Salvation. A person could think that the philosophy of Christ teachings are smart, but are atheist. What drives us to repent? Why does it say that part of the process is to repent. Does repenting cause us to change? Does our association with Christ cause us to change? Does Baptism change us? Is there a combination effect? What happens in the physical does it have ramifications in the divine? Back to the point if you think repentance is not associated with a desire to change once you know that what you were doing with your life was wrong...then do you have a desire to continue doing wrong?

One cannot get saved unless they change their mind (repent) about who Jesus is and what Calvary accomplished . OUr repentance does not cause the change, but becoming a new Creature because of our mind change (repentance) and given the mind of Christ and having the holy Spirit indwelling us causes us to change the way we live.

Disagree. We still have to ask forgiveness for sins committed after we are saved. You can call it asking, you can call it acknowledging our sins, you can call it confessing our sins...But either way there is an "if" we do something. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But those confessions are post salvation. We only once for all time have our sins judicially forgiven. But sin blocks our fellowship with God ad we must confess those sins to have them removed so our fellowship with God is not hampered. that confession has nothing to do with our relationship, but fellowship. OUr relationship was eternally secured by Jesus and when we trusted in his death and resurrection every single sin past present and future was removed! Jesus paid for all of them at the cross. That is relationship. However fellowship ( or communing with God) requires acknowleging sin so it (the sin) does not stay in teh way of our fellowship. these mutually exclusive types of forgiveness as the Bible clearly shows.

 

[amadeus]

I guess I am using the word repentance wrong.... When I say repentance... I mean confessing my sin to God... but you are stating that repentance only happens ONCE at the time of conversion.. I have never heard this before. Something to think about.

When were we converted? I was baptized at age 6 in the Catholic Church and I know that was my first remembered experience with God. Was that a conversion?

I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost when I was 32 years old in a Pentecostal church. Was that a conversion?

I was drawn out of that Pentecostal church when I was [age 43] and into another church where I started almost from scratch in my learning and understanding. Was that a conversion?

After backsliding [some argued with me that could not have happened] for about 10 years, God allowed me to come back closer to Him [age 59]. Was that a conversion?

I believe that I have repented in connection with those experiences also... but again some will disbelieve or they will have a different definition of repentance as well as conversion. God know what is in our hearts in spite what definitions we may assign to the words we use.

Read what Jesus says to Peter:

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren" Luke 22:31-32

Was Peter ever converted? If yes, when?

 

[Nancy]

YOur concept is incorrect. It developed as a result of the scatrtering at teh Tower of Babel. there God confused the languages as an act of mercy to keep man from diving into even deeper sin.

Give me an example of your "simple explanation" Language is language. It has no secular or sacredness. It is a means of communicating. Teh Jews used Hebrew well enough to convey pagan thoughts.

also it is written Jesus came in the fullness of times (the opportune moment). Why? Because Rome had developed their road system amking it easier than ever before to travel. and Koine Greek was a universal language to allow the spreading of teh good news easier than ever before.

Paul wrote all his letters in Koine and Luke wrote His two letters in greek. James, Matthew and Peter maybe in Hebrew but the rest were all written in Greek. Greek isfar more expressive than Hebrew. I studied both in Bible College.



One cannot get saved unless they change their mind (repent) about who Jesus is and what Calvary accomplished . OUr repentance does not cause the change, but becoming a new Creature because of our mind change (repentance) and given the mind of Christ and having the holy Spirit indwelling us causes us to change the way we live.



But those confessions are post salvation. We only once for all time have our sins judicially forgiven. But sin blocks our fellowship with God ad we must confess those sins to have them removed so our fellowship with God is not hampered. that confession has nothing to do with our relationship, but fellowship. OUr relationship was eternally secured by Jesus and when we trusted in his death and resurrection every single sin past present and future was removed! Jesus paid for all of them at the cross. That is relationship. However fellowship ( or communing with God) requires acknowleging sin so it (the sin) does not stay in teh way of our fellowship. these mutually exclusive types of forgiveness as the Bible clearly shows.

Agreed Ron,
Relationship vs fellowship. Not to mention, there are sins in our lives that we do not even see as sin until He shines the light of The Holy Spirit on them. Then, we have the sorrow for committing a sin and hurting, and disappointing God. Sure makes me want to express my sorrow to Him when I think a bad thought, or say things I should not to other people. So glad He knows our heart as nobody else.

 

[Grailhunter]

YOur concept is incorrect. It developed as a result of the scatrtering at teh Tower of Babel. there God confused the languages as an act of mercy to keep man from diving into even deeper sin.

Give me an example of your "simple explanation" Language is language. It has no secular or sacredness. It is a means of communicating. Teh Jews used Hebrew well enough to convey pagan thoughts.

also it is written Jesus came in the fullness of times (the opportune moment). Why? Because Rome had developed their road system amking it easier than ever before to travel. and Koine Greek was a universal language to allow the spreading of teh good news easier than ever before.

Paul wrote all his letters in Koine and Luke wrote His two letters in greek. James, Matthew and Peter maybe in Hebrew but the rest were all written in Greek. Greek isfar more expressive than Hebrew. I studied both in Bible College.



One cannot get saved unless they change their mind (repent) about who Jesus is and what Calvary accomplished . OUr repentance does not cause the change, but becoming a new Creature because of our mind change (repentance) and given the mind of Christ and having the holy Spirit indwelling us causes us to change the way we live.



But those confessions are post salvation. We only once for all time have our sins judicially forgiven. But sin blocks our fellowship with God ad we must confess those sins to have them removed so our fellowship with God is not hampered. that confession has nothing to do with our relationship, but fellowship. OUr relationship was eternally secured by Jesus and when we trusted in his death and resurrection every single sin past present and future was removed! Jesus paid for all of them at the cross. That is relationship. However fellowship ( or communing with God) requires acknowleging sin so it (the sin) does not stay in teh way of our fellowship. these mutually exclusive types of forgiveness as the Bible clearly shows.

Agreed, some had a working knowledge. It is still a Pagan language associated with Pagan religions. A language that evolved with no concern or association with Judaism or Christianity. So they were looking for words and meanings in the Greek but sometimes adjusted the meaning and the context of those words, which can be seen in how they used them. I already gave you a simple explanation.

YOur concept is incorrect. It developed as a result of the scatrtering at teh Tower of Babel. there God confused the languages as an act of mercy to keep man from diving into even deeper sin.

Who do you think built the Tower of Babel? And give me a biblical example of a Jew not understanding a Jew…Israelite.

Give me an example of your "simple explanation" Language is language. It has no secular or sacredness. It is a means of communicating. Teh Jews used Hebrew well enough to convey pagan thoughts.

So you are thinking that the Greek language was of Hebrew origin? Do you think that the Greek language had Jewish and Christian terms?

also it is written Jesus came in the fullness of times (the opportune moment). Why? Because Rome had developed their road system amking it easier than ever before to travel. and Koine Greek was a universal language to allow the spreading of teh good news easier than ever before.

There is nothing universal about Koine Greek. At the time you had Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Latin was developing. Greek speaking Jews were shunned as traitors.

Paul wrote all his letters in Koine and Luke wrote His two letters in greek. James, Matthew and Peter maybe in Hebrew but the rest were all written in Greek. Greek isfar more expressive than Hebrew. I studied both in Bible College.

Paul had a Roman background and was educated, it would be no surprise that he could read and write Greek.

Do we repent with no interest in Christ or Salvation. A person could think that the philosophy of Christ teachings are smart, but are atheist. What drives us to repent? Why does it say that part of the process is to repent. Does repenting cause us to change? Does our association with Christ cause us to change? Does Baptism change us? Is there a combination effect? What happens in the physical does it have ramifications in the divine? Back to the point if you think repentance is not associated with a desire to change once you know that what you were doing with your life was wrong...then do you have a desire to continue doing wrong?

One cannot get saved unless they change their mind (repent) about who Jesus is and what Calvary accomplished . OUr repentance does not cause the change, but becoming a new Creature because of our mind change (repentance) and given the mind of Christ and having the holy Spirit indwelling us causes us to change the way we live.

Why would you want to change your mind about who Jesus is? What causes change? I have already covered this. Why would you repent if you had no intention of changing? I like the mind of Christ and indwelling of the Holy Spirit thing…when do you think that happens?

Disagree. We still have to ask forgiveness for sins committed after we are saved. You can call it asking, you can call it acknowledging our sins, you can call it confessing our sins...But either way there is an "if" we do something. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But those confessions are post salvation. We only once for all time have our sins judicially forgiven. But sin blocks our fellowship with God ad we must confess those sins to have them removed so our fellowship with God is not hampered. that confession has nothing to do with our relationship, but fellowship. OUr relationship was eternally secured by Jesus and when we trusted in his death and resurrection every single sin past present and future was removed! Jesus paid for all of them at the cross. That is relationship. However fellowship ( or communing with God) requires acknowleging sin so it (the sin) does not stay in teh way of our fellowship. these mutually exclusive types of forgiveness as the Bible clearly shows.

I disagree with the thinking that our sins were removed past, present, and future. Sounds like universal salvation stuff. And how does just acknowledging our sins get forgiveness? "Hey Lord, just to let you know I killed my neighbor! Not sorry for it, just acknowledging it. Hope this does not affect our relationship! I might do the other one tomorrow! I will let you know! Have a nice day!

 

[justbyfaith]

I think this is directed at me.... If it is... I assume you are talking about my conversation with a member on another thread.... you used the same quote on me that you used for Nancy.

It's not my style to loosely accuse others... My conversation was a one to one... and I was talking about Legalism... and the damage of judging others.

It's not wise to carry over comments on new threads.

It was not directed at you although it was using you as an example. Sorry, I did not intend for it to specifically say anything about you in the sense of specifically calling out Adoration for his/her sin. I had hoped to mention it as an example without your name/moniker even coming up. For again, I was not intending to call anyone out on their sin with this; but I was only intending to use it as an example of how a person can judge another to be sinning when in fact that other person is not sinning.

I suppose that you are saying that I am not wise for carrying over a comment into a new thread...and that is not a judgmental statement?

Don't worry, I'm not judging you...because I normally don't judge judgmentalism...

But if it is in your thinking that the standard of God's word prohibits us from judging, you are not living up very well to your estimation of God's standard

 

[JenniferAutumn]

This is an opinion…discussion…comment thread…about repentance concepts and how it all fits into salvation and our Christian life….have a blast. Starting with some basic questions….

1. Define repentance?

2. Can you repent sins you do not remember? Repentance when becoming a Christian? And Repentance during your life as a Christian?

3. Is repentance a one time thing?

4. Do we repent first before asking Christ to forgive our sins?

5. Do we need to ask Christ to forgive our sins? Is forgiveness automatic for Christians?

6. Can you repent a habitual sin? In other words can an alcoholic or drug user become a Christian in good standing while he or she fights the addiction, desire, or lifestyle? Or does he or she have to wait until they have entirely kicked the habit or activity? If so, how long?

 

[JenniferAutumn]

Good questions

 

[Addy]

It was not directed at you although it was using you as an example. Sorry, I did not intend for it to specifically say anything about you in the sense of specifically calling out Adoration for his/her sin. I had hoped to mention it as an example without your name/moniker even coming up. For again, I was not intending to call anyone out on their sin with this; but I was only intending to use it as an example of how a person can judge another to be sinning when in fact that other person is not sinning.

I suppose that you are saying that I am not wise for carrying over a comment into a new thread...and that is not a judgmental statement?

Don't worry, I'm not judging you...because I normally don't judge judgmentalism...

I don't recall every addressing you... If you do not like my posts and think me judgemental... you have the option to IGNORE me. When I speak on these threads... I have conversations with people... and I address them directly.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't recall every addressing you... If you do not like my posts and think me judgemental... you have the option to IGNORE me. When I speak on these threads... I have conversations with people... and I address them directly.

And I was not even intending to have a conversation with you but was only using your case as an example. There was no need for your name to even come up as I was making it an anonymous example.

I will address you directly now however.

I think that you are specifically judgmental about those who are judgmental.

I do not put people on Ignore for the most part...it makes for sloppy reading when a thread has someone's posts in it who is on Ignore and you can't fiugure out why someone said something until you show the ignored material and it shows what the person was responding to. That is more of a hassle for me than reading the posts of people who aren't right in their spirit...and anyway, the love of the Lord directs me to reach out to people like that in love so that they don't stay that way for ever.

 

[Addy]

And I was not even intending to have a conversation with you but was only using your case as an example. There was no need for your name to even come up as I was making it an anonymous example.

My point is that this is a NEW thread... and the topic is NOT legalism or judgement...There was NO need to use me as an "anonymous" example.
The way you went about it was sneaky... and I recognize that. Gideon and I go back to another forum... and I have publicly proclaimed that I will not address him anymore... so it's DONE.