Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[MatthewG]

And what is this unforgivable sin? How do you understand what it is?

Hello Junchosen,

Denying God on the throne of your heart. That would be my simple answer. Departing from the living God, as I just shared.

Hebrews 3:
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [a]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

The Pharisees of the day, denied God on the throne of their heart, and desired to murder the Son of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Uh … Jesus was still on EARTH…

He didn’t add a qualifier.

 

[JunChosen]

Hello Junchosen,

Denying God on the throne of your heart. That would be my simple answer. Departing from the living God, as I just shared.

And this is your answer about the unforgivable sin? I just knew you had no inkling what it really was all about.
You had the correct book Mark 3:28-29, but since you did not really know the meaning of the unforgivable sin you stopped at verse 29. Had you continued on to the next verse 30 you would have solved your problem. Verse 30 reads: "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit." e.g., Jesus attributed His power from Satan, instead of from the Holy Spirit.
And that is the unforgivable sin!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Taken]

Okay. That has been what the whole conversation has been about the whole time.

It is a FREEWILL choice to BELIEVE…but not commit….and FREEWILL Choice to then walk away if you so Choose.

It is a FREEWILL choice to Believe AND Commit, and thereafter are KEPT IN BELIEF FOREVER….(not by your own Power)…BUT rather by the POWER of God whose Spirit (Power) dwells IN YOU.
And that is WHY, scripture warns you…to BE SURE of your CHOICE….it is FOREVER…
“OSAS”

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Why shall you then NEVER FAIL…?
Because you are ASSURED success, because of Gods SUPREME Power IN you.
“OSAS”.

God loves those who do not want him in their life, and allows them the ability to not incorporate him into their life.

Sure.

LOVE is completely a Different thing.
God LOVES all of His Creations, EVEN His Creations that reject Him. EVEN His Creations that He Hates (which means a STRONG DISLIKE.)

Human parents can LOVE their children, BUT NOT LIKE their children….and Children can LOVE their parents, but NOT LIKE their parents….

God Bless you Mathew…

Taken

 

[Taken]

He didn’t add a qualifier.

Sure He did.

In John 14; Jesus is telling of His intent to LEAVE this Earth and Return to Heaven…

John 14:
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

THEN Jesus notifies the Reader….He will have AN OTHER Comforter SENT….

John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

(HOW LONG….? FOREVER…OSAS!)

[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Holy Spirit….and you can read about men gathered together, IN ACTS…receiving the Holy Spirit as Jesus said would be SO….AFTER He returned to Heaven.
………^ THE QUALIFIER^^………

 

[Taken]

This might help understand where the errant doctrines arise from.

IS that an intended accusation?

 

[MatthewG]

And this is your answer about the unforgivable sin? I just knew you had no inkling what it really was all about.
You had the correct book Mark 3:28-29, but since you did not really know the meaning of the unforgivable sin you stopped at verse 29. Had you continued on to the next verse 30 you would have solved your problem. Verse 30 reads: "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit." e.g., Jesus attributed His power from Satan, instead of from the Holy Spirit.
And that is the unforgivable sin!!

To God Be The Glory

And? That is just as simple as having no desire with God. Yes that was my answer. Thank you for responding. I’m not trying to demean you. But an unbelieving heart by merit of desire to be without Yahavah, is the unforgivable sin.

Can you tell me, are you able to read hearts? Let’s not forget all those other verses about an evil unbelieving heart, and falling away, from the living God.

 

[MatthewG]

You can freely choose to commit to working for a job, and then decide to quit @Taken. Once saved always saved still fails to stand up in my opinion, sorry.

 

[MatthewG]

Sure.

LOVE is completely a Different thing.
God LOVES all of His Creations, EVEN His Creations that reject Him. EVEN His Creations that He Hates (which means a STRONG DISLIKE.)

Human parents can LOVE their children, BUT NOT LIKE their children….and Children can LOVE their parents, but NOT LIKE their parents….

God Bless you Mathew…

Taken

Sure thing to you and your family as well. It’s okay we don’t agree with each other. And Gods love is not like ours your right. He sometimes became angry and killed some of them.

 

[Taken]

You can freely choose to commit to working for a job, and then decide to quit @Taken. Once saved always saved still fails to stand up in my opinion, sorry.

No need to be sorry.
What applies to ONE doesn’t always apply to an other.


What applies to me…
I am quite confidant there is NO Power greater than God and with His POWER, as I freely and assuredly ask for….that He is Faithful, True and Nothing whatsoever can separate me from Him. OSAS…Forever!

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

That pertains to you, which is just looking out for yourself. That’s wonderful. Doesn’t mean it is so for others. That is between you and God.

That doesn’t mean once saved always saved is still a functioning thing. It’s your own desires to have a relationship with Yahavah….

Obviously you would not desire to lose that relationship, the whole conversation did not revolve around you.

It revolves around a larger scope of reality besides just you, and pertains to the leafy aspect of human beings and their trust between God or themselves.

And on account of the Bible and shared verses, it states that once saved, always saved is not true, people can turn away from the living God.

You work out your own salvation by yourself,
You’re the one who goes and prays to God, those are things you do ; while you may never lose faith that is great; doesn’t mean other people aren’t able to lose faith?

Hell I could lose faith, I almost threw it away once but the hope and the ability to go be with God is tempting more than the desire to let him go.

Hope you understand it wasn’t about you, is the broader scope of reality of the Bible presents, not what @Taken decides to choose and peel apart and make it work for himself. And claim once saved always saved.

Our own going faith is in participation of the hope on promises made by God and made by the Lord Yeshua, daily. We choose to have him in our lives daily.

 

[MatthewG]

If you don’t have anything more to add @Taken, I believe me and your conversation is now over. Thank you for your time to explain why you believe once saved always is viable. Maybe your right and it does exist; it’s hard to get me to believe it does because it’s a choice daily to put Yahava, the Lord God first every day, and to love their neighbor as their self. All the best to you, even in the worst of times, always and you know that from me.

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; while it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭12‬-‭15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end

bible.com

 

[BlessedPeace]

It is a FREEWILL choice to BELIEVE…but not commit….and FREEWILL Choice to then walk away if you so Choose.

It is a FREEWILL choice to Believe AND Commit, and thereafter are KEPT IN BELIEF FOREVER….(not by your own Power)…BUT rather by the POWER of God whose Spirit (Power) dwells IN YOU.
And that is WHY, scripture warns you…to BE SURE of your CHOICE….it is FOREVER…
“OSAS”

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Why shall you then NEVER FAIL…?
Because you are ASSURED success, because of Gods SUPREME Power IN you.
“OSAS”.



Sure.

LOVE is completely a Different thing.
God LOVES all of His Creations, EVEN His Creations that reject Him. EVEN His Creations that He Hates (which means a STRONG DISLIKE.)

Human parents can LOVE their children, BUT NOT LIKE their children….and Children can LOVE their parents, but NOT LIKE their parents….

God Bless you Mathew…

Taken

Jesus tells us,it is not our free will choice.

 

[Wrangler]

Sure He did.

In John 14; Jesus is telling of His intent to LEAVE this Earth and Return to Heaven…

That is not a OSAS qualifier. Jesus said go and sin no more. PERIOD. END OF STORY. CASE CLOSED. He did not add a qualifier until I am no longer on Earth, then you can sin with impunity because OSAS.

 

[Taken]

It revolves around a larger scope of reality besides just you, and pertains to the leafy aspect of human beings and their trust between God or themselves.

And on account of the Bible and shared verses, it states that once saved, always saved is not true, people can turn away from the living God.

I spoke for myself, what is about me, what does apply to me, which was offered for me to freely choose, to Have, Possess Forever, kept unto me Forever, By the power of God IN me.
(Converted)…Kept by the Power of God.

I spoke of people in general, which is about them, offered to them, to freely choose that their choice applies to them;

# 1 (Converted) to Take and have salvation forever, By the Power of God IN Them…

# 2 (Believers, not converted) people who choose to Not have the power of God IN them, or have Salvation forever, but Hope when they die they will be saved, people who think themselves are strong enough to keep Believing by their Own power….and are not saved and can Fall away.

#3(Unbelievers) people who choose to Reject Belief in God.

# 1 Applies to me.
#2 Appears to Apply to you.
#3 Applies to neither you or me.

 

[Taken]

That is not a OSAS qualifier. Jesus said go and sin no more. PERIOD. END OF STORY. CASE CLOSED.
He did not add a qualifier until I am no longer on Earth, then you can sin with impunity because OSAS.

LOL….why are you trying to “make up” a ridiculous, not existent Qualifier “for OSAS” that does Not Apply to People Once and Forever Saved?

 

[Wrangler]

LOL….why are you trying to “make up” a ridiculous, not existent Qualifier “for OSAS” that does Not Apply to People Once and Forever Saved?

You are projecting. There is nothing in Scripture that supports OSAS but there are many verses that contradict it.

Jesus spoke of branches that do not produce fruit will be thrown into the fire. Does this suggest always saving a branch with no conditions?

 

[MatthewG]

God could look at your heart and it could not be right with God. I don’t know @Taken. I can not read hearts. I disagree with once saved always saved. You are for it; great? It still doesn’t negate all the other evidences of people walking away from Yahavah.

I’m not gonna continue to go back and forth with you. There is a personal question I would like to ask you, but it might offend but I don’t know if I don’t ask. You don’t have autism do you ?

 

[Taken]

You are projecting. There is nothing in Scripture that supports OSAS but there are many verses that contradict it.

Your error not mine.

You claimed, OSAS is about receiving Salvation with some ridiculous caveat, the person has a free ride to SIN and still be saved.

Jesus spoke of branches that do not produce fruit will be thrown into the fire. Does this suggest always saving a branch with no conditions?

Jesus spoke of MANY conditions that affect individuals.
Some believe in God, but not Jesus.
Some don’t believe in God.
Some kinda of believe, but are not sure.
Some believe, when things are good for them, then don’t believe when they have hardships.
Some say they believe, but don’t.
Some don’t believe, and say nothing.
Some don’t believe and shout it out.
Some believe in the Lord God, but choose not to confess and commit their belief to Him.
A FEW truly Believe in their Heart in the Lord God Almighty, AND choose to call out to the Lord, and Confess to Him their true Heartful Belief.

Obviously…Everyone HAS FREEWILL to pick, choose, believe….and DO whatever they choose to do…regarding their OWN Belief.

Obviously…NOT every person makes the same exact Choices.

Obviously…NOT every person WILL have the SAME results.

Obviously….a person MUST choose what they WANT, BEFORE they bodily DIE….since dead body’s know nothing, can do nothing.

Obviously … the FACT IS, Everyone’s BODY SHALL DIE…MUST DIE…God requires it.

Obviously….the Lord God has OFFERED a WAY for a man “WHILE ALIVE” TO:
(BY HIS TRUE WORD, from BELIEF IN HIS HEART)….TO VOW, with HIS WORD, to FREELY CHOOSE TO LAY Down his life unto DEATH ….
(Not by hanging himself, shooting himself, giving up to a disease)………
* BUT RATHER-EXPRESSLY, laying down his bodily Life, For his Belief, Faith and Love of the Lord God….AND ACCEPT the Lord Gods Gift of Soul Salvation, ‘His”Gift of “HIS SEED”, ‘HIS” Gift of “His” Holy Spirit….
“WITHIN” them….to ONCE and Forever, BE with the Lord God Almighty….and “HE” ONCE and Forever BE with that ONE MAN.

* You can ponder…. WHY God would MAKE that OFFER….and then LIE about it being Possible….But I do Not.

* You can pretend….That a man crucified WITH Christ, is not acceptable as a DEATH, of a mans body, and thereafter that body is accounted DEAD, and can not DO ANYTHING, like uh, Continue to SIN Against God….

* You can Preach until your last breath, that Gods Power “IN” a converted man, is NOT STRONG ENOUGH “to KEEP” that man Assuredly WItH God FOR EVER …it is NOT what the Lord taught.

* You pick and choose and elect WHAT shall APPLY TO YOU, by what YOU freely Choose.
Same as everyone else.

* I Chose Gods Offering, AND elected to TAKE (a long time ago) of His Gift of Forgiveness, Laying down MY life FOR Him, His Gift of Salvation of my soul, His Sanctification, His Quickening of my spirit, His Promise to FOR EVER be WITH me and me WITH Him.

* Obviously, that was NOT “your choice”…
So what? I don’t choose FOR YOU. God doesn’t choose FOR YOU. YOU shall receive the Consequence for YOU CHOICES….just as I have received the Consequences for MY Choices.

John 14….my consequence for my choice.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;



1 John 3: …my consequence for my choice.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

2 Cor 2:…my consequence for my choice.
[15] For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

1 Cor 6:…my consequences for my choice.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 8
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Crucified with Christ…DEAD BODY…
Christ’s Spirit IN You….

UH…Dead body’s know nothing, can NOT Sin.

Once a man IS saved…which occurs AFTER the body is DEAD….How does a dead body thereafter SIN….?

Please tell me HOW Jesus is Wrong, Lied…
And You are right.

 

[Taken]

God could look at your heart and it could not be right with God. I don’t know @Taken. I can not read hearts.

I’m not gonna continue to go back and forth with you. There is a personal question I would like to ask you, but it might offend but I don’t know if I don’t ask. You don’t have autism do you ?

What is your definition of autism? and what cause makes you wonder if that applies to me?