Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[Eternally Grateful]

This is hilarious coming from a Protestant . . .

This post just proves my case..

Two of your main doctrinal pillars (Sola Scriptura & Sola Fide) are man-made, 16th century inventions that were never taught by the historic Christian Church. Neither are they taught in Scripture.

As for countering the “truth” about what YOU said that Jesus said –
You didn’t say ANYTHING. Not ONE verse of Scripture.
All you wrote in post #471 was:
“Its not a myth,
If it is God lied.”

You can cherry-pick verses that appear to teach OSAS, but in the context of Scripture - it is NEVER taught. Our security is always conditional.

lol. You cherry pick verses to support your works based legalistic pharisee gospel.. and then you twist other ones (like John 6) and make God out to be a liar. then you want to attack me.

When your ready to discuss the word. let me know

Oh wait. You can;t do that. You have to blindly follow your leaders..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I got you on ignore @Eternally Grateful. Thank you for commenting on the thread and push it back to the top. I don’t believe in once saved always saved. I believe in a daily choice.

You say you do not believe in it

Yet your last two posts support it.

Ignoring me will not change this fact..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t understand.

The scriptures speak for themselves.

There’s really no discussion.

We should be edifying one another.

If nobody would alter what the scriptures teach there’d be unity.

But the carnal mind devises many reasonings to protect itself.

so why are you altering scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for sharing and contributing with the thread. In the past I was under the sola scriptura bandwagon, until finally someone said there is something wrong here.

Whats wrong with the word of God alone?

What should we look to for truth? Men?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He has not covered sinless perfection and the deity of Christ in this particular discussion but he has in many other discussions. Ask him what he believes about sinless perfection and also if he believes that Jesus is God. He has demonstrated that he teaches type 2 works salvation in this discussion though. I'm not judging him unjustly. I've had numerous discussions with him on this forum and on Christian Chat. I know what he believes in that regard. This is not my first rodeo with him.

You will see they both believe this.. So they stand up for each other..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don’t care. It’s just rude. Why the hell do you think I care for this information!? I haven’t seen it personally, he is always been about allowing the works of God which are done through you. At least that is my opinion.

Your not paying attention.. And why are you attacking @mailmandan as if he is talking to you, he is responding to another person.. so I guess I agree. why do you care what he says to someone else?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@mailmandan because it’s people who try to snide and be act as a judge against them as though you are God to say such things. Where do you get your personal authority? That kind of stuff does piss me off.

Practice what you preach my friend. You did that to me earlier about matt 24.. You judged me as though you were God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nah people need to be loved, understood, and allow them to have their opinions, while sharing with them… it’s not to expose someone and strip them naked and whip them with a whip…
(The ol Bible quote whippings.)
love doesn’t remember and keep records of wrong, people who desire to break people down bring up their wrongs, even if it is a wrong doctrine but you have no personal authority by God.

To judge another human being… especially when they believe in the death, burial, and resurrection…

Saying you believe in the death burial and resurrection. and actually preaching it are two different things.

When one teaches it, yet wants to add their works to it.. then they do not actually believe in it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are people that say people who hold a sabbath are gonna go to hell, while Paul says let no one judge you and if you wanna celebrate a sabbath you can… or go to a religious festival you can do so. As long as you do before God.

Actually it is usualy the other way around

People who profess sabbath is required say those who do not hold saterday are going to hell.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are people in the Lds faith, who believe in the death, burial and resurrection, and are willing to allow God to work through them. There are people in Jehovah Witness who believe in the death, burial, and resurrection… even if the organization teach different things, even keeping yourself saved. Normally conversations with others concerning God are normally one on one.

There can be a place and a time if people desire to talk about God and read the Bible and learn from it if they desire to meet up and do these things but to say they aren’t Christian just cause they don’t have everything down pat…

Where do you get the authority to judge them as people who are cut off from God if it’s in the heart of the believer? And they by virtue of Christ in them love?

Would love to know, @mailmandan cause now your on blast from me from your false authority.

wow man, Really??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“…the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)

Why is the word of God injuring you?

“…do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?” (Micah 2:7)

When your trying to earn salvation by rejecting salvation by grace and trying to add works..

then no, the word is not talking to you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you saying that I have no authority to call out false doctrine using scripture?

The pot calling the kettle black..lol

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If people wanna be an authority they need to tell you where they get that authority…

Never let someone else dominate your faith… or say your not a Christian while you still believe in the gospel…

Who asked to be an authority?

why are you yelling at Dan and not others who are trying to tell dan what the truth is..

is it because Dan disagrees with you too?

 

[mailmandan]

This post just proves my case..

lol. You cherry pick verses to support your works based legalistic pharisee gospel.. and then you twist other ones (like John 6) and make God out to be a liar. then you want to attack me.

When your ready to discuss the word. let me know

Oh wait. You can;t do that. You have to blindly follow your leaders..

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church, and although they believe faith is important, they do not believe in eternal security of the believer because they believe that salvation is also based on the merits of our performance/works.

Official Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake only. Something more is required. You must keep yourself justified by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your works. You must pay the debt of sins by your penance and your purgatorial sufferings. That is Rome's salvation by works!

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

 

[mailmandan]

Saying you believe in the death burial and resurrection. and actually preaching it are two different things.

When one teaches it, yet wants to add their works to it.. then they do not actually believe in it.

It's one thing to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" and yet it's still another thing to actually believe in/have faith in/trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..) Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church, and although they believe faith is important, they do not believe in eternal security of the believer because they believe that salvation is also based on the merits of our performance/works.

Official Catholic teaching would not allow the sinner to rely by faith on the mercy of God or to believe that his sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake only. Something more is required. You must keep yourself justified by your own good works. You must merit grace and eternal life by your works. You must pay the debt of sins by your penance and your purgatorial sufferings. That is Rome's salvation by works!

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

I had one tell me once it is faith working in love..

that was their excuse for adding works to grace

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's one thing to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" and yet it's still another thing to actually believe in/have faith in/trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..) Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

Amen,

He said it is finished.

He did not say it is started. Now you finish

 

[mailmandan]

I had one tell me once it is faith working in love..

that was their excuse for adding works to grace

People will try to find sneaky ways to "add" works to salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Some will try to "shoehorn" works "into" faith and basically redefine faith to "include" works. Example: Here is a statement below from a Roman Catholic who I was once in a discussion with.

We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments etc..

Others may say something like "we are saved by "these" works (good works/works of faith etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the law). Yet Paul covers works in general so that argument does not fly (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

Now when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot 'dissect' good works from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work/work of faith" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. We cannot "completely detach" good works from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

 

[MatthewG]

People tend forget works are the works that God does through you. It’s not about salvation.

Salvation is about having faith. Works are what God produces from a believer whom comes to him…

Works are storing treasures up in heaven - and it’s over all the work of Gods love though you which is seen as weak.

”You might think you are a very religious person. But if your tongue is out of control, you are fooling yourself. Your careless talk makes your offerings to God worthless. The worship that God wants is this: caring for orphans or widows who need help and keeping yourself free from the world’s evil influence. This is the kind of worship that God accepts as pure and good.“
‭‭James‬ ‭1‬:‭26‬-‭27‬ ‭ERV‬‬

”My dear brothers and sisters, you are believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ. So don’t treat some people better than others. Suppose someone comes into your meeting wearing very nice clothes and a gold ring. At the same time a poor person comes in wearing old, dirty clothes. You show special attention to the person wearing nice clothes. You say, “Sit here in this good seat.” But you say to the poor person, “Stand there!” or “Sit on the floor by our feet!” Doesn’t this show that you think some people are more important than others? You set yourselves up as judges—judges who make bad decisions. Listen, my dear brothers and sisters. God chose the poor people in the world to be rich in faith. He chose them to receive the kingdom God promised to those who love him. But you show no respect to those who are poor. And you know that the rich are the ones who always try to control your lives. And they are the ones who take you to court. And the rich are the ones who insult the wonderful name of Christ, the name by which you are known. One law rules over all other laws. This royal law is found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself.” If you obey this law, you are doing right. But if you are treating one person as more important than another, you are sinning. You are guilty of breaking God’s law. My brothers and sisters, if a person claims to have faith but does nothing, that faith is worth nothing. Faith like that cannot save anyone. Suppose a brother or sister in Christ comes to you in need of clothes or something to eat. And you say to them, “God be with you! I hope you stay warm and get plenty to eat,” but you don’t give them the things they need. If you don’t help them, your words are worthless. It is the same with faith. If it is just faith and nothing more—if it doesn’t do anything—it is dead. But someone might argue, “Some people have faith, and others have good works.” My answer would be that you can’t show me your faith if you don’t do anything. But I will show you my faith by the good I do. You believe there is one God. That’s good, but even the demons believe that! And they shake with fear. You fool! Faith that does nothing is worth nothing. Do you want me to prove this to you? Our father Abraham was made right with God by what he did. He offered his son Isaac to God on the altar. So you see that Abraham’s faith and what he did worked together. His faith was made perfect by what he did. This shows the full meaning of the Scriptures that say, “Abraham believed God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.” Abraham was called “God’s friend.” So you see that people are made right with God by what they do. They cannot be made right by faith alone. Another example is Rahab. She was a prostitute, but she was made right with God by something she did. She helped those who were spying for God’s people. She welcomed them into her home and helped them escape by a different road. A person’s body that does not have a spirit is dead. It is the same with faith—faith that does nothing is dead!“
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭9‬, ‭14‬-‭26‬ ‭ERV‬‬


Some people say JAMES is not even worth listening to though.

 

[MatthewG]

@Eternally Grateful some people believe in the gospel and are humble. Some people believe in the gospel and they are cold. It depends on if the working of the fruit of love of God is coming through. Sometimes there is a blockade. That is why it’s not good to trust humans on the matters of God and seek for oneself.