Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[Ritajanice]

Rita.

You can ask Jesus into your house, you can ask him to leave. He isn’t going to say, no.

You cannot ask God to make you Born Again, there is no such scripture...only God can make us Born Of The Spirit....only God can bring our spirit Alive via his Spirit.....

I also believe that if God chooses us to be Born Again for his purpose and plan, it will be done....I was chosen, I had no say in the matter, it all happened according to the will of God...imo, belief and testimony

 

[MatthewG]

You cannot ask God to make you Born Again, there is no such scripture...only God can make us Born Of The Spirit....only God can bring our spirit Alive via his Spirit.....

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

You can send him out, just as easy as you opened the door.

There are “false confessions of faith” in the world as well… hypocrisy still hasn’t went away.

 

[mailmandan]

How do you know they didn’t have a heart for God though? Can you say that to me for 100% certain?

No, but you can see there are people who die faithless are on the outside of the kingdom, while the ones whom are blessed for doing the Lords commandments going into the Kingdom.

I believe everyone will receive on behalf of Christ not have to worry about Hell, Satan, or that their Sin was not paid for.

There is unforgivable sin, which is faithlessness, or unbelief which keeps people from entering in.

And? Just because you don’t see that, doesn’t make it any more true that you can renounce one’s faith… which goes back into unbelieving. (Why people do this or what happens in their life, God only knows but he doesn’t keep anyone who doesn’t want to be with him, lovingly.)

”Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God has great mercy, and because of his mercy he gave us a new life. This new life brings us a living hope through Jesus Christ’s resurrection from death. Now we wait to receive the blessings God has for his children. These blessings are kept for you in heaven. They cannot be ruined or be destroyed or lose their beauty. God’s power protects you through your faith, and it keeps you safe until your salvation comes. That salvation is ready to be given to you at the end of time. I know the thought of that is exciting, even if you must suffer through different kinds of troubles for a short time now. These troubles test your faith and prove that it is pure. And such faith is worth more than gold. Gold can be proved to be pure by fire, but gold will ruin. When your faith is proven to be pure, the result will be praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ comes.“
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭3‬-‭7‬ ‭ERV‬‬

That’s okay to have faith. It’s when faithless and unbelieving heart comes.

”So it is just as the Holy Spirit says: “If you hear God’s voice today, don’t be stubborn as you were in the past, when you turned against God. That was the day you tested God in the desert. For 40 years in the desert, your people saw what I did. But they tested me and my patience. So I was angry with them. I said, ‘Their thoughts are always wrong. They have never understood my ways.’ So I was angry and made a promise: ‘They will never enter my place of rest.’” Psalm 95:7-11 So, brothers and sisters, be careful that none of you has the evil thoughts that cause so much doubt that you stop following the living God. But encourage each other every day, while you still have something called “today.” Help each other so that none of you will be fooled by sin and become too hard to change.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭7‬-‭13‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Jesus, and Paul talked about dying daily. It’s a day to day, choice.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all, “If anyone wants to follow after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me.

”I face death every day. That is true, brothers and sisters, just as it is true that I am proud of what you are because of Christ Jesus our Lord.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭31‬ ‭ERV‬‬

To most people it would be, hypocrisy exist within “supposed faith” as well.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Thank you for sharing.

You and I just don't see eye to eye on this topic. In regard to Matthew 7:21-23, do you believe these many people who Jesus said He never knew were genuine believers? What do you believe God's will for these many people were in obtaining salvation that they failed to do?

 

[Ritajanice]

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

You can send him out, just as easy as you opened the door.

There are “false confessions of faith” in the world as well… hypocrisy still hasn’t went away.

That is not about becoming “ Born Again “....nothing there, Gods already explained how he makes us Born Of The Spirit....it’s supernatural, you don’t know where the Spirit comes from or when he will make you Born Again...you can only know that through the testifying of the Spirit with our spirit that we are Gods children.

A Born Again can NEVER be separated from God..never ever...that is Gods word...

 

[MatthewG]

You and I just don't see eye to eye on this topic. In regard to Matthew 7:21-23, do you believe these many people who Jesus said He never knew were genuine believers?

Did I make this assumption?

What do you believe God's will for these many people were in obtaining salvation that they failed to do?

To be saved from Gods wrath.

That is not about becoming “ Born Again “....nothing there, Gods already explained how he makes us Born Of The Spirit....it’s supernatural, you don’t know where the Spirit comes from or when he will make you Born Again...you can only know that through the testifying of the Spirit with our spirit that we are Gods children.

?? What do you want? Please tell me.

 

[MatthewG]

@Ritajanice, it’s not good to lie to yourself.

Hope all the best for you. The writer of Hebrews talks about how believers of the faith can become unbelieving but the scripture may not matter…

God will keep you. But what if you gave up on him? Is that his Fault?

 

[Ritajanice]

That is not about becoming “ Born Again “....nothing there, Gods already explained how he makes us Born Of The Spirit....it’s supernatural, you don’t know where the Spirit comes from or when he will make you Born Again...you can only know that through the testifying of the Spirit with our spirit that we are Gods children.

?? What do you want?


I’m just pointing out @MatthewG ....that a “ Born Again “ can never lose the Spirit of God, he’s with us / in our spirit permanently, because we have been “ Born Of The Spirit “.....that’s all I’m saying..I can’t deny the truth of Gods word....I won’t continue arguing the point though...

 

[mailmandan]

Did I make this assumption?

I was just asking. You would be surprised how many people who oppose OSAS and teach salvation by works believe that these were genuine believers who lost their salvation for working iniquity.

To be saved from Gods wrath.

What was God's will for these many people in Matthew 7:22 that they failed to do which would have saved them from God's wrath?

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ritajanice, it’s not good to lie to yourself.

Hope all the best for you. The writer of Hebrews talks about how believers of the faith can become unbelieving but the scripture may not matter…

God will keep you. But what if you gave up on him? Is that his Fault?

As I’ve already said.

You and I......understand being “ Born Of The Spirit “ very differently.....God Bless you too...nice to be civil with each other in our discussion...I know that makes God happy and pleasing to him....imo.

 

[MatthewG]

?? What do you want?


I’m just pointing out @MatthewG ....that a “ Born Again “ can never lose the Spirit of God, he’s with us / in our spirit permanently, because we have been “ Born Of The Spirit “.....that’s all I’m saying..I can’t deny the truth of Gods word....I won’t continue arguing the point though...

Oh praise God! Thank you, for dropping it. It gets old and repetitive and a little annoying to keep going like this. Don’t you agree?

 

[MatthewG]

I was just asking. You would be surprised how many people who oppose OSAS and teach salvation by works believe that these were genuine believers who lost their salvation for working iniquity.

I don’t believe in the doctrine, of one saved always saved. I do believe works play apart of one’s faith, don’t you? James speaks about it. I’m not saying it’s good to go out there and steal your neighbors dog and bust out the headlights of their car.

What was God's will for these many people in Matthew 7:22 that they failed to do which would have saved them from God's wrath?

You tell me.

 

[Ritajanice]

Oh praise God! Thank you, for dropping it. It gets old and repetitive and a little annoying to keep going like this. Don’t you agree?

Indeed, at least we’ve discussed with respect for one another, that make me happy and peaceful...God Bless Mathew...enjoy the rest of your day.

We are forever learning in God...I love it!....God satisfies our heart/ spirit, Amen?

 

[Taken]

It’s in you as long as you continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23).

While ALL Scripture is TRUE… By WHAT individuals determines WHICH Scripture Applies to WHOM.

Christian is a BROAD TERM…
* A person confessing to BE a Christian:
WHO IS:
~Hearing and Learning the Word of God.
~Believing the Word of God.
~Receiving Measures of Faith.
~Trying to FOLLOW the guidance of the Word of God.
Col 1:23 APPLIES TO THAT PERSON.
It is a Warning to CONTINUE.
It is a WARNING to NOT FALL from Faith.

THEN there is the Christian….WHO…
IS hearing, learning, believing, following….
AND EXERCISES HIS OWN FREEWILL TO CALL ON THE LORD GOD AND….
*********CONFESS TO THE LORD GOD HIS HEARFUL TRUE BELIEF*************

Col 1:23 no longer APPLIES to THAT MAN!
THAT MAN, no longer relies on his OWN strength to KEEP his FAITH….

THAT MAN, has INVITED the POWER of GOD to ENTER HIM and KEEP that man IN FAITH, WITH GOD FOR EVER!

I rather learn from Jesus himself what the kingdom of God is:

Before debating WHAT the Kingdom of God IS…Learn HOW one enters ONCE and FOR EVER.
Learn IT IS EXPRESSLY BY, THROUGH, OF the Power of God, GIVEN one WHO Accepts the Lord’s OFFERING…
IS ASSURED Entrance into Gods Kingdom.
IS ASSURED BY “GODS POWER” to REMAIN WITH God…FOR EVER!

SINCE it IS Gods Power THAT IS Keeping a (CONVERTED ie. BORN AGAIN man) WITH God FOR EVER….
WHY…does that same man REQUIRE a WARNING TO Continue in Faith?
(He doesn’t)
CAN….Gods Power “IN” that man “FAIL”?
(No)

ONCE….saved…it IS FOREVER!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[mailmandan]

I don’t believe in the doctrine, of one saved always saved. I do believe works play apart of one’s faith, don’t you? James speaks about it. I’m not saying it’s good to go out there and steal your neighbors dog and bust out the headlights of their car.

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but works are not the very essence of faith and works are also not the basis or means by which we obtain (or maintain) salvation.

You tell me.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[MatthewG]

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but works are not the very essence of faith and works are also not the basis or means by which we obtain (or maintain) salvation.

Doesn’t God by his spirit always produce works of love?

”Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, and it is not proud. Love is not rude, it is not selfish, and it cannot be made angry easily. Love does not remember wrongs done against it. Love is never happy when others do wrong, but it is always happy with the truth. Love never gives up on people. It never stops trusting, never loses hope, and never quits.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13‬:‭4‬-‭7‬ ‭ERV‬‬

”But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their sinful self. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. We get our new life from the Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. We must not feel proud and boast about ourselves. We must not cause trouble for each other or be jealous of each other.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭22‬-‭26‬ ‭ERV‬‬

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

I agree with what Jesus says here.

I also agree with what he says here.

”“Do for others what you would want them to do for you. This is the meaning of the Law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets. “You can enter true life only through the narrow gate. The gate to hell is very wide, and there is plenty of room on the road that leads there. Many people go that way. But the gate that opens the way to true life is narrow. And the road that leads there is hard to follow. Only a few people find it. “Be careful of false prophets. They come to you and look gentle like sheep. But they are really dangerous like wolves. You will know these people because of what they do. Good things don’t come from people who are bad, just as grapes don’t come from thornbushes, and figs don’t come from thorny weeds. In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, and bad trees produce bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. You will know these false people by what they do. “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On that last Day many will call me Lord. They will say, ‘Lord, Lord, by the power of your name we spoke for God. And by your name we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ Then I will tell those people clearly, ‘Get away from me, you people who do wrong. I never knew you.’“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭12‬-‭23‬ ‭ERV‬‬

”“Whoever hears these teachings of mine and obeys them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. It rained hard, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house. But it did not fall because it was built on rock. “Whoever hears these teachings of mine and does not obey them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. It rained hard, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house. And it fell with a loud crash.” When Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed at his teaching. He did not teach like their teachers of the law. He taught like someone who has authority.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭24‬-‭29‬ ‭ERV‬‬

 

[mailmandan]

Doesn’t God by his spirit always produce works of love?

”Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, and it is not proud. Love is not rude, it is not selfish, and it cannot be made angry easily. Love does not remember wrongs done against it. Love is never happy when others do wrong, but it is always happy with the truth. Love never gives up on people. It never stops trusting, never loses hope, and never quits.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13‬:‭4‬-‭7‬ ‭ERV‬‬

”But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their sinful self. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. We get our new life from the Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. We must not feel proud and boast about ourselves. We must not cause trouble for each other or be jealous of each other.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭22‬-‭26‬ ‭ERV‬‬

I agree with what Jesus says here.

I also agree with what he says here.

”“Do for others what you would want them to do for you. This is the meaning of the Law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets. “You can enter true life only through the narrow gate. The gate to hell is very wide, and there is plenty of room on the road that leads there. Many people go that way. But the gate that opens the way to true life is narrow. And the road that leads there is hard to follow. Only a few people find it. “Be careful of false prophets. They come to you and look gentle like sheep. But they are really dangerous like wolves. You will know these people because of what they do. Good things don’t come from people who are bad, just as grapes don’t come from thornbushes, and figs don’t come from thorny weeds. In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, and bad trees produce bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. You will know these false people by what they do. “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On that last Day many will call me Lord. They will say, ‘Lord, Lord, by the power of your name we spoke for God. And by your name we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ Then I will tell those people clearly, ‘Get away from me, you people who do wrong. I never knew you.’“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭12‬-‭23‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Faith works/expresses itself through love. (Galatians 5:6) Jesus Christ is the narrow gate and only those who believe in Him/have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation will be saved. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). Good fruit is the demonstrative evidence of a good tree, (Matthew 7:17) which represents believers. These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. (1 Corinthians 3:11) They were trusting in their works for salvation instead of Jesus Christ alone. There is a difference between God's will for us in order to become saved (John 6:40) and God's will for us after we have been saved. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)

 

[MatthewG]

Faith works/expresses itself through love. (Galatians 5:6) Jesus Christ is the narrow gate and only those who believe in Him/have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation will be saved. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). Good fruit is the demonstrative evidence of a good tree, (Matthew 7:17) which represents believers. These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. (1 Corinthians 3:11) They were trusting in their works for salvation instead of Jesus Christ alone. There is a difference between God's will for us in order to become saved (John 6:40) and God's will for us after we have been saved. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)

Thank you for all the scripture. People of faith can still renounce their faith. Unless they are robots and have no free will, or God is menace and forces them into it. I believe God worked with people he chose because those people chose to seek him.

”So, my brothers and sisters, those chosen by God to be his holy people, think about Jesus. He is the one we believe God sent to save us and to be our high priest. God made him our high priest, and he was faithful to God just as Moses was. He did everything God wanted him to do in God’s house. When someone builds a house, people will honor the builder more than the house. It is the same with Jesus. He should have more honor than Moses. Every house is built by someone, but God built everything. Moses was faithful as a servant in God’s whole house. He told people what God would say in the future. But Christ is faithful in ruling God’s house as the Son. And we are God’s house, if we remain confident of the great hope we are glad to say we have. So it is just as the Holy Spirit says: “If you hear God’s voice today, don’t be stubborn as you were in the past, when you turned against God. That was the day you tested God in the desert. For 40 years in the desert, your people saw what I did. But they tested me and my patience. So I was angry with them. I said, ‘Their thoughts are always wrong. They have never understood my ways.’ So I was angry and made a promise: ‘They will never enter my place of rest.’” Psalm 95:7-11 So, brothers and sisters, be careful that none of you has the evil thoughts that cause so much doubt that you stop following the living God. But encourage each other every day, while you still have something called “today.” Help each other so that none of you will be fooled by sin and become too hard to change. We have the honor of sharing in all that Christ has if we continue until the end to have the sure faith we had in the beginning. That’s why the Spirit said, “If you hear God’s voice today, don’t be stubborn as in the past when you turned against God.” Psalm 95:7-8 Who were those who heard God’s voice and turned against him? It was all the people Moses led out of Egypt. And who was God angry with for 40 years? He was angry with those who sinned. And their dead bodies were left in the desert. And which people was God talking to when he promised that they would never enter his place of rest? He was talking to those who did not obey him. So we see that they were not allowed to enter and have God’s rest, because they did not believe.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭19‬ ‭ERV‬‬

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe the Holy Spirit is obviously the fruit bearer, he prunes us to bear his fruit....he produces his fruit through us....and imo it’s ongoing.

Mathew do you believe that God brings us inline with his will?....I believe he does, yet, I think we can hinder his will and fight against it, especially when we don’t understand his will?

 

[MatthewG]

It’s amazing how easy and simple it is to cut half the narrative of the gospel down, when you know it really well, it’s much more harder to go and read full sections and chapters. I’m lucky enough to be able to read and have read the gospel and the letter except ‘Acts’ all the way throughout its context and content, that’s a praise to Yahavah, while I can share bits and pieces it’s the context that is going to fill in some of the holes, which are missing from just a small section all together. It all boils down to having faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and loving God and others. Faith and love, and that is beautiful - but the context and contents in full help so much in an expanding of one’s own understanding through prayer and the spirit, asking God to help you.

I believe the Holy Spirit is obviously the fruit bearer, he prunes us to bear his fruit....he produces his fruit through us....and imo it’s ongoing.

Jesus talking to his chosen disciples at that time :

”Jesus said, “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that does not produce fruit. He also trims every branch that produces fruit to prepare it to produce even more. You have already been prepared to produce more fruit by the teaching I have given you. Stay joined to me and I will stay joined to you. No branch can produce fruit alone. It must stay connected to the vine. It is the same with you. You cannot produce fruit alone. You must stay joined to me. “I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I to you, you will produce plenty of fruit. But separated from me you won’t be able to do anything. If you don’t stay joined to me, you will be like a branch that has been thrown out and has dried up. All the dead branches like that are gathered up, thrown into the fire and burned. Stay joined together with me, and follow my teachings. If you do this, you can ask for anything you want, and it will be given to you. Show that you are my followers by producing much fruit. This will bring honor to my Father. “I have loved you as the Father has loved me. Now continue in my love. I have obeyed my Father’s commands, and he continues to love me. In the same way, if you obey my commands, I will continue to love you. I have told you these things so that you can have the true happiness that I have. I want you to be completely happy. This is what I command you: Love each other as I have loved you. The greatest love people can show is to die for their friends. You are my friends if you do what I tell you to do. I no longer call you servants, because servants don’t know what their master is doing. But now I call you friends, because I have told you everything that my Father told me. “You did not choose me. I chose you. And I gave you this work: to go and produce fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you anything you ask for in my name. This is my command: Love each other.“
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭17‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Mathew do you believe that God brings us inline with his will?

If a person seeks to do Gods will. Prayer for all people, forgiving our enemies, etc… I would say yes, Rita.

....I believe he does, yet, I think we can hinder his will and fight against it, especially when we don’t understand his will?

People can hinder Gods will by the nature of the flesh. That is why Paul writes a lot about the flesh (our souls (mind/will/emotions which are created in Gods image) and the spirit.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't know

the only people I see judging others is people being like a pharisee and pumping their chest praising God they do nto sin like the LGBTQ or the Porn addicted or the alcoholic.

While ignoring their own sin.

Yes many churches do just that .
they might expose the lgbtq and yet support the false love of money .
or they might expose the abortion and yet support the lgbtq
or they etc .
ALL SINS must be exposed .
not just certain ones and etc .
ALL sins and errors .
Leaven moves in fast and can sure fill up a place .
The biblical pattern Works . the patterns of judge not correct not DONT .